Darker Than Black - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by orion

Genma was in it with the CIA and MI6 so August 7th's death was faked to throw off S3.

I dont think it was so much a fake death on genma's part as it is more than likely August 7 used his abilities to fake his death

[orion]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I dont think it was so much a fake death on genma's part as it is more than likely August 7 used his abilities to fake his death

His cohorts would have pulled the coat off the corpse to identify it also so Genma and August 7th were working together imo. If Genma noticed something off and wasn't in it from the start, he would have said something.

[-Sho-]

Wow , what an end but still good .
It was rushed though .
Too many things happenned .
So , Shion copied the earth then Suou , her family (except Shion) and July went there in the end otherwise they're dead .
Ow , when July was happy and hug Suou , it was so cute .
But seems that the magician guy isn't dead wait what ?

So , Rock Guy is a traitor and the samurai girl killed him .
Wow , Hei lost , hopefully he was saved ...

OMG , the futurist car XD that make sense lulz !!!

Mao still the funniest character

White Yin / Black Yin ? and Last Yin ? (in the end) someone can tell me what happens ...
Hei was with White Yin and Last Yin in the coffin was Black Yin ? <---- NVM , look the previous posts
Well , his star is still there so i think he's still alive somewhere ...

Omg , Misaki in the end !!! She's beautiful

Give it 9/10 even though it was rushed ...
Misaki said it's just the beginning so a Season 3 ?
And the twins said that another gate is created .

Ow , they should have make more episodes .. compared to S1 this season is a bit down ..

PS : And yeah , i lol my ass at RAMBO in the end

[xKeen]

The ending presented more questions than answers to me =l I don't like it when they made Misaki say its just the beginning or something like that.Sounds cliched as they always use it in movies

[physics223]

I would agree with someone when he said that the ending wasn't as bad because of its commentary on our own memories. Memories are an important part of making us who we are, and it reflected on Suou. At least the loss of her memories was recompensed with a gain of a peaceful new life. I thought Hei's scene with her was touching.

I constructed that hypothesis of mine because of the unlikelihood of Hei wanting to kill the only person that really mattered to him for the past few years. Suou was important, but she wasn't the world to Hei. Yin is.

I also definitely don't really think he'd strengthen his resolve in killing her when he discovered she tried her best not to let Izanami come out. In fact there are parallels to Tsukihime, where Arcueid would rather sleep forever than harm any one of Shiki's kind. That's the depth of her love for him. Upon realizing that, would you still go out and kill her?

Hei's not inhuman. He's all too human. It just doesn't make sense for him to kill Yin.

[Haladflire65]

I just watched the episode, and I have to say that I'm very confused. What the heck happened with Hei and Yin anyways? It wasn't a really bad episode or anything, my head's just hurting from all the questions it left, rather than the answers it should've given us...

[Faerie]

Well, I have to say, as an ending to Suou's story arc, I like it. I enjoyed watching the episode, and it has a lot of good points

- Hazuki kicking butt! Awesome- would've loved to see the whole thing, but there was no time... o well!
- Misaki's new look. That's just so good, they should've done it way earlier. She'd be more popular
- Mao switching his, erm, "form of transport", I'd love for him to stick around Misaki, it would be fun. Did they show what happened to him, I think I missed it?!
- Suou's finale with Hei was touching. Was I the only one who thought she was not only talking about Hei when she said something were missing? After all, there doesn't seem to be a Shion either, and she has to be reintroduced to July too.

- About July, I didn't get the feeling he "lost" Suou, like some said, just because they have an age difference and she doesn't remember him. They'll probably be reintroduced, at some point, and Suou doesn't seem like the type of kid who'd be "too cool" to hang out with a younger boy, at least not if he can pass as a really cute little brother- don't they always advertise how anime girls like cute little boys anyways? It seemed to me that what he lost was rather his abilities as an (evolved!!) doll? Whether that's good or bad is debatable, but still.

The whole thing definitely felt like a setup for a sequel, it gave sufficient closure to the Suou story, but left tons of material for a S3, but I'm not sure what the cast would be?
I don't think they'd have the guts to make a show starring Misaki, Oreille, creepy twins, Rambo and maybe Mao and Hazuki, even though that's what it felt like, at least to me (and personally, I'd find it awesome).
It felt as if they were removing Hei, but that would be a bad move. He would return at some point.

The way he carried Yin's body reminded me of a couple of other death scenes for some reason (hah, I bet we'll see him lobbing Yin into some lake at the beginning of S3!!! Mark my words! ), so she seemed pretty dead to me, especially for the lack of clothes as someone mentioned.
It's just, if someone's been through obvious trauma, the first move is to wrap them into something, but this might just be for dramatic effect. Still.

Thing is, we'll be spending the whole OVA episodes on explaining what happened to Yin before S2, and if she were to just get up and carry on after all this, why bother with dramatic-looking OVA- episodes about her?
On the other hand, Yin seems to be very popular, so I didn't think they'd go through with killing her off, though it would be the only option that makes sense...

I also really liked the music. Just hope we'll get a S3, one that is maybe a bit more tightly written, but overall, despite its flaws, I enjoyed the show, though unfortunately nowhere near as much as S1.
Had I watched it as Suou's story, not a sequel to DtB, I would've liked it more, but that's just a problem with what I had expected

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by orion

If Yin is still alive and comatose, she only has 14 days left to live anyways imo. If she lived, she took part in the "birth" of Kagutsuchi and contributed to the death of Old Earth. Killing her would have been the kindest thing to do imo.

It's anime. And do you seriously believe that? That just because she tried her damned hardest to prevent it, but failed, death is the kindest for her?

Originally Posted by orion

So which sky do you think he is walking under? Old Earth or New Earth? Misaki's epilogue said that she never saw him again.

Being an optimist, I root New Earth. Suou having a feeling that someone is watching over her comes true.

From a story perspective, Hei being in New Earth makes zero sense. Since S2 blatantly creates a build-up for S3, why in 2 earths would Hei be in a world that's peaceful and semi-detached from the story of Contractors and Gates?

I find it funny you talk about being optimistic, while you denounce Yin's fate as TRIPLE BAD END + IRONIC INESCAPABLE FATE one way or another.

Originally Posted by orion

And you never know. Suou is feeling that someone is watching over her. It could be him.

Or it could be July.

[Sinestra]

Well it seems the ending curse for this season continues with DTB. I honestly had hoped it would not turn out like this. I cant help but to feel that writers got lazy with the ending this i truly feel. In my mind they solved nothing about the bigger problem of the real Earth. Shion saved a few with his copy plan but the real problem and the real war continues to rage. So to me they solved nothing but Suou's story. Which technically is what they could have wanted and leave open a 3rd series possibility to finish up with Hei and the rest of the crew.

This was not the worst ending of the seasons and i didnt hate it i just feel it was a weak cop out of the larger problems at hand. Others are still miserable and the gates continue to appear in the real world. The ending feels more like running away from the problems than solving anything.

I think i will just count this season as 12 episode ova than an actual season. Darker Than Black season 1 is still the only one in my mind.

[Hobbit]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I think i will just count this season as 12 episode ova than an actual season. Darker Than Black season 1 is still the only one in my mind.

With this season, we learned that the syndicate already knew of the Gates, and that it was divided with internal struggles. Dr. Pavchylenko itself was conducting secret researches, and his son was a contractor from birth.

[Equidistant]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Thing is, we'll be spending the whole OVA episodes on explaining what happened to Yin before S2, and if she were to just get up and carry on after all this, why bother with dramatic-looking OVA- episodes about her?

Why bother having dramatic looking OVA episodes about her when she doesn't even turn up in the 2nd season till the end, speaks only a few sentences and then dies?

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by CantQuiteGuess

Why bother having dramatic looking OVA episodes about her when she doesn't even turn up in the 2nd season till the end, speaks only a few sentences and then dies?

because she is extremely popular with fanboys, I'd guess? They couldn't fit her into S2's main cast, if they wanted Suou in it, so they made her the antagonist instead, finally revealing little about what happened. Now everyone wants the dramatic looking OVA, and has to buy it.
I'd also guess there was no time to focus on her, but if she were alive, there would be time to explain in a S3, but if she's finished, it would make sense to give her a sort of farewell-OVA, to wrap up her story? Just guessing.
I feel they should wrap her story up in the OVA, and just having her back after ALL this drama and talk about her needing to be killed, and her killing here and there randomly, and the build-up in this episode, they'd have a really hard time making it plausible and not seem cheesy and for keeping fanboys happy, if they chose to keep her alive.

Characters have not been redeemed for lesser evil, so unless someone can give me a plausible scenario for her survival to play out, I'd rather she's a tragic heroine than some fanbait.
I am neutral towards Yin, so it's just that I don't see a plausible way for her to make it out of her mess, but as I said, if someone can think of something good, I'd like to hear it

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

because she is extremely popular with fanboys, I'd guess? They couldn't fit her into S2's main cast, if they wanted Suou in it, so they made her the antagonist instead, finally revealing little about what happened. Now everyone wants the dramatic looking OVA, and has to buy it.
I'd also guess there was no time to focus on her, but if she were alive, there would be time to explain in a S3, but if she's finished, it would make sense to give her a sort of farewell-OVA, to wrap up her story? Just guessing.
I feel they should wrap her story up in the OVA, and just having her back after ALL this drama and talk about her needing to be killed, and her killing here and there randomly, and the build-up in this episode, they'd have a really hard time making it plausible and not seem cheesy and for keeping fanboys happy, if they chose to keep her alive.

Characters have not been redeemed for lesser evil, so unless someone can give me a plausible scenario for her survival to play out, I'd rather she's a tragic heroine than some fanbait.
I am neutral towards Yin, so it's just that I don't see a plausible way for her to make it out of her mess, but as I said, if someone can think of something good, I'd like to hear it

If Yin is dead, then Hei deserves the solace that he at least saved the world from calamity at the cost of her life. I mean, Yin told Hei that there was still time to kill her. She never specified for what, but it's natural to assume there was still time to stop the prophecy, which we all know occurred at the end of the episode anyway. What's the point of that if Yin's death still results in lol too late, sorry Hei you were 1 second too late to kill Yin, so now she dead + her antichrist son will be bringing calamity to the world?

Even if you say that it's a build-up for S3's antagonist, conflict between America/Syndicate 2.0 isn't going to be over even if the prophecy is thwarted. The birth of Kagu-tsuchi just adds a new, more dangerous element to the entire conflict.

And I'd say that the last episode itself created a loophole to redeem Yin. All these while, we thought Yin's entire being had evolved into Izanami, and like Hei, had little to no hope for redemption. But it turns out to be entirely untrue because Izanami turns out to just be one part of Yin gone haywire ( probably Yin's doll-spectre power gone out of control ) that the real Yin suppressed. By making Izanami and Yin 2 separate, yet inter-linked existence, it actually gave room to redeem Yin.

[Hobbit]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

because she is extremely popular with fanboys, I'd guess? They couldn't fit her into S2's main cast, if they wanted Suou in it, so they made her the antagonist instead, finally revealing little about what happened. Now everyone wants the dramatic looking OVA, and has to buy it.
I'd also guess there was no time to focus on her, but if she were alive, there would be time to explain in a S3, but if she's finished, it would make sense to give her a sort of farewell-OVA, to wrap up her story? Just guessing.
I feel they should wrap her story up in the OVA, and just having her back after ALL this drama and talk about her needing to be killed, and her killing here and there randomly, and the build-up in this episode, they'd have a really hard time making it plausible and not seem cheesy and for keeping fanboys happy, if they chose to keep her alive.

S2 was nice season, but looking to it, it seens much more like a warm up. Suou was the main character in this season, but not in the plot. She was the motivation for Shion. And that was it. For her sake, Shion made a deal with Izanami.

In the end, the plot focus was the meeting between Izanami and Izanagi, and the birth of this new being that we saw in the end.

Since S1 the syndicate was trying to take Yin from Hei. Remember the "stepfather"/piano teacher arc, with the lady and the guy who made poetry for his remuneration? Probably it's more than a dramatic OVA, and it can give good answers about the syndicate and, of courser, about Yin and Hei.

I don't think it's just fanboysm. Yin/Izanami turned to be the main character, along with Hei and now the evil shota. Hei spoke about kill Yin/Izanami, but we can see that it changed after he was told that Yin capt Izanami at bay in a first moment. Even S3 thought a second time before kill her when they saw that she was struggling to constrain Izanami inside.

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Characters have not been redeemed for lesser evil, so unless someone can give me a plausible scenario for her survival to play out, I'd rather she's a tragic heroine than some fanbait.
I am neutral towards Yin, so it's just that I don't see a plausible way for her to make it out of her mess, but as I said, if someone can think of something good, I'd like to hear it

I don't know if it's good, but it made a lot of sense for me(while I was typing )

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...18#post2839918

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...69#post2840269

And yes, I'm a fan of Yin/Hei. Someone like more Suou, others Misaki, probably there's even someone attached to Gemma

[Equidistant]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

because she is extremely popular with fanboys, I'd guess? They couldn't fit her into S2's main cast, if they wanted Suou in it, so they made her the antagonist instead, finally revealing little about what happened. Now everyone wants the dramatic looking OVA, and has to buy it.
I'd also guess there was no time to focus on her, but if she were alive, there would be time to explain in a S3, but if she's finished, it would make sense to give her a sort of farewell-OVA, to wrap up her story? Just guessing.
I feel they should wrap her story up in the OVA, and just having her back after ALL this drama and talk about her needing to be killed, and her killing here and there randomly, and the build-up in this episode, they'd have a really hard time making it plausible and not seem cheesy and for keeping fanboys happy, if they chose to keep her alive.

Characters have not been redeemed for lesser evil, so unless someone can give me a plausible scenario for her survival to play out, I'd rather she's a tragic heroine than some fanbait.
I am neutral towards Yin, so it's just that I don't see a plausible way for her to make it out of her mess, but as I said, if someone can think of something good, I'd like to hear it

Based on what I saw, I'd say whether Yin lived or died is based more on peoples personal opinions than any evidence from the show, since it was a very short and vague scene. Despite the lack of evidence I'll try and come up with as plausible a scenario as I can.

Yin Lives:
1. Hei cared for Yin, this at least became obvious as the season progressed.
2. Izanami was said to be a separate personality from Yin.
3. In episode 12 there are two Yins, the dark most likely being Izanami and the white most likely being Yin. One of the two says to kill her, but Hei only responds by smiling, meaning we don't know what his decision was.
4. The next scene we see Hei standing in front of Yin(it looks to be her real body that was said to be an empty shell before) with his hand on her heart, and you could say he's not killing her here because the light is pinkish rather than blue.
5. Hei is seen carrying Yin's limp body, but having no idea what just took place before it's hard to say with certainty that she's dead.
6. The boy Yin is born meaning that Hei didn't stop the new life from being born

Yin Dies:
1. Yin is now Izanami and has become an antagonist.
2. Hei cares for Yin so he may see killing her as relieving her.
3. One of the 2 Yin's says to kill her and that there is still time(still time for what though? The kid is still born).
4. Hei is seen with his hand on her heart and could have indeed killed her.
5. Hei is seen carrying Yin's limp body.
6. In the Izanami myth Izanami dies after childbirth.

I also wouldn't say Yin killing lots of contractors has much to do with anything as far as Hei is concerned. I mean he offed April like it was nothing to start the season, killed a human, and lots of others as well. Hei never seemed to care about the people Yin killed but more so that Yin had turned into a weapon and he wanted to stop her for personal reasons.

Another question that has to be raised is what happened to Hei? If he did kill Yin, did he just fade back into the city and go into hiding again? Did he stay inside the gate, or go to the new earth so he could stalk Suou long enough for her to be legal?

[Equidistant]

Originally Posted by Hobbit

Since S1 the syndicate was trying to take Yin from Hei. Remember the "stepfather"/piano teacher arc, with the lady and the guy who made poetry for his remuneration? Probably it's more than a dramatic OVA, and it can give good answers about the syndicate and, of courser, about Yin and Hei.

I'm pretty sure the syndicate wanted Yin dead that arc because they thought she had ran away and didn't want her spilling any secrets.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

If Yin is dead, then Hei deserves the solace that he at least saved the world from calamity at the cost of her life. I mean, Yin told Hei that there was still time to kill her. She never specified for what, but it's natural to assume there was still time to stop the prophecy, which we all know occurred at the end of the episode anyway. What's the point of that if Yin's death still results in lol too late, sorry Hei you were 1 second too late to kill Yin, so now she dead + her antichrist son will be bringing calamity to the world?

Even if you say that it's a build-up for S3's antagonist, conflict between America/Syndicate 2.0 isn't going to be over even if the prophecy is thwarted. The birth of Kagu-tsuchi just adds a new, more dangerous element to the entire conflict.

And I'd say that the last episode itself created a loophole to redeem Yin. All these while, we thought Yin's entire being had evolved into Izanami, and like Hei, had little to no hope for redemption. But it turns out to be entirely untrue because Izanami turns out to just be one part of Yin gone haywire ( probably Yin's doll-spectre power gone out of control ) that the real Yin suppressed. By making Izanami and Yin 2 separate, yet inter-linked existence, it actually gave room to redeem Yin.

I know, there's still a possibility, it's just that I can't see it playing out well
What I mean is, even after learning that Yin tried to stop her change (and hence still had her own consciousness) he said "let's end this", and then suddenly- bam- they make themselves a loophole to maybe keep Yin and to keep people guessing/ hoping.

Well, you have a point that it seems too harsh to have her die and the demon spawn coming about anyway, but isn't that in accordance with the legend too, that Izanami doesn't survive the incident? Someone mentioned that before, I think.
And what would they do with Yin, if she survived? She clearly can't just resume her role from S1.
Her recent development will be handled in the OVA and she can't resume her role as the team's doll without first getting more screentime in S3 to develop her back into it. And then what would her purpose in the plot be?

They can chose to save her, the problem is just, what to do with her then? Havoc was on her way to redemption too, or Amber, and yet they didn't make it. Now, if Amber were to suddenly pop up again for good, then all the drama around her was pointless (even though I'd like her around a lot, it's better she stays dead, and as of now, I think same goes for Yin).

[Hobbit]

Originally Posted by CantQuiteGuess

I'm pretty sure the syndicate wanted Yin dead that arc because they thought she had ran away and didn't want her spilling any secrets.

I thought it once, but with the Izanami thing I've started to think that they already knew it.

Like Shion, who was a contractor since his birth, and his father was part of the syndicate . On top of that his researches was so secret tha othe faction in send Mao to spy on him.

The two cases, in my opinion, seens to be already knew by the syndicate. Shion's we saw in tha anime. Yin we need the manga and the OVAs.

[Equidistant]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

I know, there's still a possibility, it's just that I can't see it playing out well
What I mean is, even after learning that Yin tried to stop her change (and hence still had her own consciousness) he said "let's end this", and then suddenly- bam- they make themselves a loophole to maybe keep Yin and to keep people guessing/ hoping.

Well, you have a point that it seems too harsh to have her die and the demon spawn coming about anyway, but isn't that in accordance with the legend too, that Izanami doesn't survive the incident? Someone mentioned that before, I think.
And what would they do with Yin, if she survived? She clearly can't just resume her role from S1.
Her recent development will be handled in the OVA and she can't resume her role as the team's doll without first getting more screentime in S3 to develop her back into it. And then what would her purpose in the plot be?

They can chose to save her, the problem is just, what to do with her then? Havoc was on her way to redemption too, or Amber, and yet they didn't make it. Now, if Amber were to suddenly pop up again for good, then all the drama around her was pointless (even though I'd like her around a lot, it's better she stays dead, and as of now, I think same goes for Yin).

With Yin the situation is different, because there's nothing conclusive to say she lived or died. It's not about her being redeemed, it's more about what Hei chose to do. Did he kill her or did he somehow save her? I mean Yin may not have a clearly defined role going forward, but does Suou, or Hei? Hei has lost all attachments to the world if Yin is dead and Suou is off living on the New Earth. It's hard to say what any of these characters roles would be in a new season. We don't know what took place between Hei and Yin in the scene that Misaki glimpsed, but they probably talked about something, decided something, a third season could easily let us in on that conversation and then we'd know whether or not Yin is truly dead. This is my main problem with the finale, there's not enough evidence to conclude one thing or the other, the whole episode was more like a promo for a third season.

[slayne310]

Here is what I think that happen at the end.

Hei got his power back because the meteor fragment was broken by Yin, which release his power back to him. I believe he change Yin to something else with his power without killing her. Hence the glowing lights like hells gate at end of season 1. Remember Hei has the power to change matters and probably more. The new Yin look alike is probably what they need to stop in the 3rd season if we get one.