The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[jasper222]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Spoiler for teh lulz:

I don't think so. Tsuruya-san's existence as a normal person is almost as important as Kyon's (which is why I'm not even going into the "Kyon as a xxx" argument). Also, any time we've seen some kind of effect done physically to sentients by IDSE interfaces, there has been some kind of physical interaction. Ryoko's attempt to stab Kyon, when conceivably she could have just manipulated the data so that air stopped entering his mouth and nose; Yuki's protections (and adjustments, in Sigh) on Kyon and Mikuru via bite; Yuki's manipulating external events to cause Nakagawa to take a physical blow to the head. Contrast the cricket incident, where it was the other data entity that caused the effect on the Computer Club Pres after he viewed the web page; or the Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody frozen room, where it was the area they were in that was affected, not themselves directly. My reasoning? The IDSE is limited in some ways by the free will of other sentients. They can nudge things around to manipulate other sentients, but can only directly affect them if the sentients freely will it by "allowing" contact. That's probably the major difference between their powers and Haruhi's.

What that boils down to is that, on top of her important status as a normal human, Tsuruya-san doesn't interact with Yuki, so we'd have to have it explained where they did so so that the "injection" of Ryoko could have been done.

Besides, you're missing something, two things, actually. From the picture we've been given, the bottom edge of the bangs are not seen, so we don't know whether they're straight or rounded, only that they curl back towards the forehead. Now a cursory examination of Google Image Search (warning: potentially NSFW depending upon cookie settings) tells us that not only does Tsuruya not have the requisite bangs (she's almost a forehead girl), but Ryoko could, from the right angle.

But to humor the idea for a moment, there is another girl, who has had close physical interactions with Yuki, who also has the curled bangs. And there's no reason to assume that Yuki couldn't have implanted Ryoko into Kyon in the numerous opportunities she's had (as some kind of "tethered spirit" possibly), since there's probably no better way to ensure his safety from her than making it so that she can't continue to exist without him.

Spoiler for all right:

Maybe. At the right angle Asakura Ryoko should have those kinds of bangs. Maybe if she were facing us rather than at Kyon's back? AKA a sideways pose.

I got some things too after watching the camrip of suzumiya haruhi during a net interruption:

Spoiler for teh muvee:

- Adult Mikuru saying that Haruhi took her in before she could tell left from right

Metaphorical statement? This happened during the chat before they went into Nagato's apartment. This just struck me is all. No need to think deeply. Or should I?

- The three SOS Dan girls having a thing for Kyon

I think it's pretty obvious. I just brought it up.

- Adult Mikuru still can't face Yuki

Now this has been bothering me. Why oh why does this moe character refuse to face the goddess? I've been toying with a lot of scenarios, but only two things come to mind. Before I delve into that, I bring up to you the first eps of season 1 (chrono order).

When Mikuru was captured by Haruhi and brought to the SOS clubroom, she noticed Yuki and immediately resolved to join with the enigmatic statement "I SEE". WHAT DO YOU SEE DAMMIT

In the movie adult Mikuru tells Kyon to help her since she still can't face Yuki face to face. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mikuru never shied away from Yuki in the present timeline right? This means something between present Mikuru and Yuki will happen sometime (preferably near the end of the novels).

Only two things come to mind when I say these:

1.) Yuki might be a founder/leader of the Time Travelers

No particular reason why. I just found it interesting when Mikuru faced Yuki and the I see statement happened. Also, this was what crossed my mind first thing when they saw each other. Yuki wouldn't know of course. Also, adult Mikuru said that computers in their time exist as a formless shape within their heads. Yuki being a humanoid and all, wouldn't she have the same technology built into her?

2.) Mikuru kills Yuki in the future/Instead of Mikuru, Yuki takes her place

Or something to that extent. I wouldn't know why. Maybe since to bring everything back to normal, some person might have to sacrifice him/herself and Yuki realizing that she's a humanoid interface and can never love a human (even after all this time she developed feelings, she can't realize it since she's not human in the first place/Kyon will never love her) takes Mikuru's place or something. I wouldn't know. I might just be pulling things out my ass here, but you never know.

[Grahf616]

Mikuru's always been rather scared of Yuki actually. Whether it's because they're fairly opposite in terms of actually being (compare Mikuru's helpless, hapless overly emotion status to Yuki's composed, near omnipotent for most intents and purposes one)

There's also fan theories (when are there not) that Mikuru, if she is indeed acting, is scared of Yuki because Yuki can easily see through the act. She's also scared of the ITDE, because even advanced as the time travellers are, they've got nothing on Yuki's faction.

A lot of people interpret her "I see" comment as one of resignation that she has to get further involved. She probably knew that Yuki was a representative of a competing faction, so simply by being in close proximity to Haruhi, Yuki has gained an advantage. If not for that, Mikuru might have actually said no - whether Haruhi would have taken no for an answer is of course a different matter, but it was the fact that Mikuru had to match Yuki's involvement that pretty much sealed her membership into the club.

[jasper222]

I thought that too, but it seemed kind of too ordinary

[quigonkenny]

My personal idea for why Mikuru is so scared of Yuki is a simple one.

Haruhi has no reason to be scared of Yuki, so she is not.

Kyon knows he has reason to be scared of the IDSE, since one of its interfaces tried to kill him...twice...but trusts Yuki (and his John Smith trump card) enough that he's not scared of her.

Itsuki probably has a better grasp of and respect for Yuki's power, being somewhat powered himself, but the apparent neutral relationship the IDSE has with the Organization ("acknowledgement" might be a better word), and Itsuki's innate unreadability make it difficult to tell whether he's as smugly confident with the comparable IDSE knowledge advantage he has over Kyon as he appears to be, or if deep down he's a drooling basket case just over the sheer malevolent potential she embodies, and puts on a hell of a face. My guess is somewhere in the middle, where he's come to see Yuki as a relatively trustworthy friend much like Kyon has, but is ready to run for the figurative hills at a moment's notice should her warranty expire.

Mikuru, however, is a completely different case. To her, Yuki is history. Make no mistake, she knew exactly who and what Yuki was the moment she saw her. In Mikuru's future, people have probably written theses on the IDSE, going into all kind of detail that wouldn't even appear as theory to Stephen Hawking, so much as gibberish. As much as Mikuru appears to have been dropped into the past with the intellectual equivalent of two damp sticks and an animal-skin loincloth (you're welcome for that mental image, BTW), you can bet she's had more than just a primer on Yuki and the IDSE.

See, the time travelers have two things on the other two human camps (Kyon, and the Organization) in regards to the IDSE. First and most obviously is a future vantage point. Haruhi's very existence does mean all bets are off, but they do know what's likely to happen concerning the IDSE, and have a inkling of what the IDSE's abilities might entail from that. Second, and most importantly, they have however many years of scientific advancement that let them get an intellectual vantage point upon the IDSE's existence. If she lives in a society that has virtualized communication and conquered time travel, she's probably intimately aware, simply by dint of being of high school age, of things that are beyond the "experiences" of even the most drug-addled of 21st century sci-fi writers.

tl;dr version:

To Haruhi, Yuki is Yuki.
To Kyon, Yuki is a trustworthy friend who works for a very powerful space something or other that may not have his best interests in mind.
To Itsuki, Yuki is a familiar and relatively stable aspect of an insanely powerful data entity that he undoubtedly understands a lot less than he'd like to.
To Mikuru, Yuki is the skin of the finger puppet that the hyperCthulhu on data steroids known as the IDSE uses to interact with her own, personal, intricately fragile past. Mikuru actually understands some of the significance of what that nigh-omnipotent cosmic horror entails, first and foremost being that if Itsuki did understand, he probably wouldn't like to.

[ijuinkun]

Originally Posted by baltakatei

Based on what I have just described, Kyon's surname can be any one of the following common Japanese surnames:

Sakaki (if his first name comes after the other male Sakaki)
Sakamoto
Sato
Saito
Shimizu
Sugiyama
Tachibana
Takahashi
Takenaka
Tanaka
Tanigawa <-- A perfect fit for Kyon's name if Kyon were an Author Avatar for real-life Haruhi author Tanigawa Nagaru.
Taniguchi (if his first name comes before the Taniguchi-we-know's first name)[/SPOILER]

From the description I gave in the above spoiler tag, the surnames of the girls who sit in front of and behind Kyon do not affect Kyon's seating position. It is the boys' surnames before and after Kyon that matter (namely, Sakaki in front and Taniguchi behind him). Like I discussed in the space-saving spoiler box above, Kyon's surname can be anything like Sato, Sugiyama, Tachibana, Takahashi, Tanaka, or Tanigawa (as long as his name fits between "Sakaki" and "Taniguchi")

Spoiler:

Well, I do not believe that his name would be Taniguchi, since the Taniguchi that Kyon hangs out with would surely have mentioned something about it if they had the same surname. Also, his name is probably not Sasaki or Suzimiya. I would expect that he does not share a surname with any of the so-far named story characters who are not related to him as family. Still, you do have a point that his name could be anywhere between Sakaki and Taniguchi.

Originally Posted by jasper222

Spoiler for teh muvee:

- Adult Mikuru saying that Haruhi took her in before she could tell left from right

Metaphorical statement? This happened during the chat before they went into Nagato's apartment. This just struck me is all. No need to think deeply. Or should I?

Spoiler:

"Being unable to tell left from right" is a standard metaphor in Japan for being a complete newbie who has not yet learned the ropes of a place/profession--i.e. one does not know enough to make heads or tails out of anything. Thus, Mikuru is saying that Haruhi helped her when she was still completely naive and inexperienced in the ways of 2000s high school life.

[User89254]

Originally Posted by ijuinkun

Spoiler:

Well, I do not believe that his name would be Taniguchi, since the Taniguchi that Kyon hangs out with would surely have mentioned something about it if they had the same surname. Also, his name is probably not Sasaki or Suzimiya. I would expect that he does not share a surname with any of the so-far named story characters who are not related to him as family. Still, you do have a point that his name could be anywhere between Sakaki and Taniguchi.

Spoiler for what was said:

TANIGAWA COULD BE LIKELY (as addressed by Turbanator in "The Death of Haruhi Suzumiya", one of the most awesome Haruhi fanfics ever)

But I thought Asakura changed the seating to "mix things up", right? So it wouldn't be alphabetical...right?

[ijuinkun]

Originally Posted by AsterSelene

Spoiler for what was said:

TANIGAWA COULD BE LIKELY (as addressed by Turbanator in "The Death of Haruhi Suzumiya", one of the most awesome Haruhi fanfics ever)

But I thought Asakura changed the seating to "mix things up", right? So it wouldn't be alphabetical...right?

Spoiler:

The seating change was the one that came after Kyon had the conversation with Haruhi about her hair, where Haruhi was put in the left-rear corner of the room and Kyon in front of her. I speculate that Asakura did this to isolate Haruhi from talking during class with anybody besides Kyon, since Asakura wished to use Kyon as a means of "getting to" Haruhi.

[User89254]

Originally Posted by ijuinkun

Spoiler:

The seating change was the one that came after Kyon had the conversation with Haruhi about her hair, where Haruhi was put in the left-rear corner of the room and Kyon in front of her. I speculate that Asakura did this to isolate Haruhi from talking during class with anybody besides Kyon, since Asakura wished to use Kyon as a means of "getting to" Haruhi.

Spoiler for okay...:

Oh, okay.

But would alphabetical seating apply on the first day? From what I know, usually classes fill in randomly but eventually get fixed seats later...

[Joe4evr]

Originally Posted by AsterSelene

Spoiler for okay...:

Oh, okay.

But would alphabetical seating apply on the first day? From what I know, usually classes fill in randomly but eventually get fixed seats later...

Spoiler for :

There was an image with the students in their initial seating arrangement 'conveniently' in alphabetical order.

[User89254]

Originally Posted by Joe4evr

Spoiler for :

There was an image with the students in their initial seating arrangement 'conveniently' in alphabetical order.

Anime or novel?

[Khu]

...fanbook maybe?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by AsterSelene

Anime or novel?

Anime, but it's mentioned in the novel as well.

Plus, I believe such a seating arrangement is typical of Japanese schools.

[quigonkenny]

As far as Kyon's last name goes, all we can really assume is that it alphabetically comes shortly before Taniguchi. The only named persons in the room in the novels are Suzimiya, Taniguchi, Asakura, Kunikida, and Sakanaka. None of the girls come into consideration, and we know he sat in front of Taniguchi (who sat directly behind Haruhi). Since we don't know whether Tanigawa ever told KyoAni or Kadokawa what Kyon's real name is, or even if he knew at that time (he's stated before that he didn't know what Kyon's name is, but has since said he does have a name in mind), we can't take KyoAni's usage of naming as novel canon. And since, if he ever does decide to name Kyon, and they ever do decide to animate it, whatever ends up as his name in the novels is going to trump whatever KyoAni had in mind for the anime (which probably was Tanigawa).

That's assuming Kyon ever gets a name. I'm perfectly fine with him being Kyon even after the series is over. In fact, I'd prefer it. I'd rather it never be revealed, even outside of the series.

Primarily because any time some nicknamed character gets a real name revealed right before the grand finale of a work, you always have some jackholes who decide to call him that for the rest of ever just because they think it makes them look more important. They usually use some kind of lame excuse like "Well, that's his name..." Blah blah...

Case in pont: What would your reaction be to anyone who continuously refers to Dr. Henry Jones, Jr. once you find out that they're talking about the person you know as "Indiana"?

See?

"But 'Indiana' is the dog's name..." *smack!*

Kyon's name is Kyon and will always be Kyon, even if Tanigawa decides to reveal his birth name.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

we can't take KyoAni's usage of naming as novel canon. And since, if he ever does decide to name Kyon, and they ever do decide to animate it, whatever ends up as his name in the novels is going to trump whatever KyoAni had in mind for the anime (which probably was Tanigawa).

Consider how Tanigawa is so closely working with KyoAni in the production of this anime, I find it doubtful KyoAni wouldn't have let Tanigawa make the decision of where Kyon was sitting. Hell, if they had to, they could have made changes in the re-release just as how they updated the show with the presence of the bamboo plant.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Hell, if they had to, they could have made changes in the re-release just as how they updated the show with the presence of the bamboo plant.

That's something they added to the DVD version, not the re-release. The re-release is just a broadcast of the DVD versions.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That's something they added to the DVD version, not the re-release. The re-release is just a broadcast of the DVD versions.

That's what I mean; they can and will change the material to suit the canon. And consider that the author is a credited script writer of the show, it would not be difficult to ask him what letter Kyon's name start with.

Hell, each of the students in class have a name and backstory. But that could have happened only if the author put them there, as the anime had no use for such things. Not until the movie, anyway, and that was three years after the first season.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Hell, each of the students in class have a name and backstory. But that could have happened only if the author put them there, as the anime had no use for such things. Not until the movie, anyway, and that was three years after the first season.

I'll disagree with that one. The way the anime has been done, they could have had use for it. As intricate as the series has been with the things going on in its backgrounds, especially in the first "season", giving the no-names backstories could have been just an easier and consistent way to answer the animators questions of "So what is XXX doing right now?"

[RRW]

Spoiler for kyon name:

first "Yamada Tarō" is Japanese equivalent of "John Smith"
Yamada and Tanaka have similar meaning ("mountain ricefield" and "middle of the ricefield")
Tanaka is much more common name than Yamada in japanese
Taro means "eldest son" (assuming that he has no older brother/sister)
along with baltakatei Japanese surnames chart. it's possible that kyon name is "Tanaka Taro". the name is fit to him as "normal/usual person"

this is what I think. it can be wrong or right.

[Tyabann]

As for Kyon's name, Vol. 9 hints that it's written very strangely, and is the sort of name you'd associate with royalty.

It probably isn't a very normal name at all.

[jasper222]

Written strangely? I can only think of one Japanese royalty name though.

Oda Nobunaga.