Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[nutype]

seems like graham can get away with anything. I consider myself very mature but when graham confesses his "love" to setsuna like that I can't really help but be shocked and have a smirk on my face. The first thought that came to my mind was "gay" then followed by a "lol." Of course everyone seems willing to defend him because he's graham afterall, he flied the cool overflag and beat johann with an inferior MS.

I have a feeling that graham is going to stoop lower and lower in S2 until the point where most of you will not be vouching for his character anymore. Perhaps it will be him getting owned very badly next time around or maybe him being more open with his homosexuality.

The evidence is really piling up btw. The fact he brought up horoscopes in his first battle of setsuna was a dead give-away anyways....I don't understand what you people need to see to confirm that graham is gay (and a pedophile since setsuna is underage???) not that there is anything wrong with that!

[jonli]

They can just manually eject Setsuna's drive and rescue him from the cockpit.

[FRS]

Originally Posted by nutype

seems like graham can get away with anything. I consider myself very mature but when graham confesses his "love" to setsuna like that I can't really help but be shocked and have a smirk on my face. The first thought that came to my mind was "gay" then followed by a "lol." Of course everyone seems willing to defend him because he's graham afterall, he flied the cool overflag and beat johann with an inferior MS.

I have a feeling that graham is going to stoop lower and lower in S2 until the point where most of you will not be vouching for his character anymore. Perhaps it will be him getting owned very badly next time around or maybe him being more open with his homosexuality.

The evidence is really piling up btw. The fact he brought up horoscopes in his first battle of setsuna was a dead give-away anyways....I don't understand what you people need to see to confirm that graham is gay (and a pedophile since setsuna is underage???) not that there is anything wrong with that!

It's natural but still weird how different people can interpret a scene, i saw nothing sexual there, Graham is a battle maniac, a hot blooded warrior, he take pride in his skill and in his mecha, so when something rise and challenge this (the gundams) he can not stand still, he must face them and overcame their challenge or he will cease existing.

He admires the gundam as they are the most potent weapon of this age, he also hates them as they killed dear friends, as for his relation with Setsuna yes they are linked by fate/plot, he witness his first sortie, he was the first that forced Exia to "retreat", he even got to meet him even if he did knew it at the moment.

[Vorenus]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

To be fair, there's no particular reason that what we saw of the remaining Meisters' states that should lead to their deaths, so they shouldn't count as fake deaths.

Well, when you hear them seeing stuff "I'm going first, Allelujah", "I still have to eject the GN Drive before meeting with Lockon in the after-life" and "When you'll read this, I'll not be of this World anymore", it is heavily implying they are dead.

Granted, their bodies are still intact, but :

- Allelujah was not wearing an helmet anymore and he got shrapnels/explosion in the eyes, which probably means there is an air leak somewhere... considering the confinement of a cockpit, he is not going to last long in this state unless the remaining CB Container picks him up as soon as possible and before the two others.

- I'm going to accept to buy it for Setsuna as him being just knocked out is credible : he had one hell of a fight against a crazy MA and equally powerful Golden GM.
To put even more strain on his body, he used Trans-Am and immediatly after had to fight a GN Flag which is probably even more powerful than a GN-X, piloted by either the best or second best pilot of the whole series. Even without he final stabbing and ensuing damage, I would understand him passing out.
His helmet and body seem in good shape, altough he has spit a lot of blood.

- Same goes for Tieria but while Nadleeh is the most crippled unit of them all, he is the Meister in he best physical condition by the looks of it.

I would be more tolerant with them acting as if they would die if we hadn't brought Patrick, Ali (Zwei's cockpit *did* blew up) and Graham back to life.

The writers just have to be reasonable with this kind of stuff or it gets tiring and hurts the credibility of the show...

[Vorenus]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I for one am ecstatic that Graham is the masked man of tradition...Tradition obviously means something to Gundam and I am proud of it...Thinking about what technique they'll use and how they'll bring about these traditional elements each subsequent series is what moves me...So many people want Gundam to not be Gundam..I don't get it...No other franchise even comes close to sustaining itself over this long a period of time without this...The reason Gundam can is because it built a tradition over the years that has been deemed effective...I for one don't want it to stray too much to the point we got Coordinators fighting Newtype aliens from Mars ya know...

Of course, Green-Skinned Aliens in Gundam would be the worst thing possible, but it is not so much that Gundam shouldn't be Gundam anymore.
While efficient, the recipe needs something new : there is no point in telling the same story over and over again and using the same old recipes there and there.
I don't see a masked man needed to make a Gundam series : the theme of Gundams have been to depict the horrors of war on a large scale and how it affects the characters and the rest of the World.

Gundam can still be Gundam without using the same tricks over and over again...
UC series started all of this actually with the "I'm in love (or at least very strong bonds/feelings) with an enemy pilot" with Amuro and Lalah, Camille and Four, Glemy and Roux (somewhat), Hathaway and Quess, Shiro and Aina, Seabook and Cecily (somewhat) and Uso and Katejina.
I don't see how it helped at all to have the same situation over and over again with the more or less same exact development.
Then, Destiny reused this with Shinn and Stellar to do more or less the exact thing than in Zeta... what was the point ?

I'm happy to see Haro in every series as he is a symbol/mascott (note that before he was the symbol of UC or rather Tomino Gundam and not Gundam as a whole : SEED just created the opening which 00 followed) and has no impact, if any, on the plot or story.

Gundam 00 for me has proved you can take Gundam to a different place without ignoring it's history...And what I saw in the epilogue proves to me that they are heading right back into that tradition with the formulation of the Earth Alliance, masked-man of tradition, exploration of space-colonization...Again at it's core this series is really a prequel to the creation of the Gundam universe, and little hints thru-out this season along with the epilogue bares this out...

Tomino made Turn A to unite Gundam and bind all the Alternate Universes altogether so Gundam does not need such a prequel to complete the saga.
It doesn't mean that 00 is not allowed to have space colonies and ultimately create an universe similar to UC but if it is to be served the same Gundam soup recipe as usual : a bit of masked man, a bit of colonies, a bit of independance group, a bit of extra-sensitive powers, a bit of enemy girlfriend, mix, heat up and serve hot... well...
The recipe sure has proven itself successful, but if you eat your favorite dish everyday, you're going to end up bored of it. After 30 years, Gundam needs to explore new horizons, not do the same thing over and over again.
Gundam 00 has been original enough for me so far so I don't see which needs it has for masked man : we know it is Gundam, it is written on it ! We don't need that to figure out.

Getting back to Graham I too will admit his GN FLAG introduction was somewhat rushed...In retrospect it would have been great had they budgeted one more episode just for him verses Setsuna (For some reason, even as early as Zeta, Gundam has a tendency for quick revelations in the end), but I reject the notion that this somehow changed his character..He was on this course as early as episode 14 when he pwned Lockon in the desert battle...He subsequently had began showing disdain for the Gundam's actions which was in contrast to his wonderment and "love" of them...In his fight with Setsuna he clearly explained that love can easily turn into obsession with the added spice of revenge...I think you miss the point if you turn his twisted excitement into some hard ghey joke...

I didn't want to mean he was gay, but he is obsessed with Gundams for no real reasons anymore.
He still talks about their overwhelming abilities but the GN Flag has proven itself an suit almost on par with Exia, so he has these overwhelming abilities on his hands now, so why to keep it up.
I was disappointed because Graham still being obsessed with Gundam prevent his character to evolve to the next level : for most of the series, he had been obsessed with Gundams, so what was the point to keep it going on especially in the finale ?

Sergei was saying much more reasonable things when he got the Gundam's technology in the shape of a GN-X : "The Gundams are nothing to be afraid of anymore now".

Graham was still noble in the end...He doesn't know who Setsuna really is and he is dispatching a murderer whose team has killed many of his friends...He has no idea of the manipulation behind the scenes with the Thrones killing of Eifmen and Mason as he unleashes his red-blade of glory upon the main Gundam's soul...Graham wants destiny to decide what course of action is right...Setsuna's response to Graham's passionate words were to meet him in the destiny of the duel...You do know most noble and chivalrous men of history killed each other in duels after slaps to the faces with white gloves?? Trying to kill your enemy in a straight man vs. man, no frills battle is about as noble as it gets...

I don't mean Graham is not noble anymore : I find it was in his character to charge at Exia like he did... I just think his dialogue could have shown a new part of him, especially now he finally pilots a machine with specs verynear to that of a Gundam.

Graham even acknowledges that Setsuna's point of counter is well met, which translates to him perhaps not being wrong...But the same GN blade that wants to take Graham down, is perhaps the same distortion, the same arrogance that Setsuna accuses Graham of...The existence of Gundam, someone creating a plan this deep over 200 years to create these mobile suits thinking they would somehow unite the world? How egotistical is that?? That battle, while perhaps short, and perhaps forced a bit on Graham's introduction, had true meaning...In my eyes Graham's attitude was consistent with his character and didn't betray him one bit...I think some are confusing his persona with the fact his introduction was kinda outta the woodworx this ep...

I agree, and it applies to the whole CB : they are merely extremists who are enforcing things on people because they thing they know better and are (supposedly) fighting for one of the best causes possible... which doesn't necessarily makes it right.
Dictatorship if done right may not be a bad thing in some areas, but it of course still is dictatorship.

As for the gripe of Graham being a hypocrite because of his usage of GN technology, I reject that aswell...It was never about beating a Gundam with the lo-tech of the UNION...If that was the case he would have never upgraded his original FLAG (if it solely about this absolute)...He kept customising before GN tech was available... It was about beating a Gundam with the unit that was a symbol of their nation...Fighting with the FLAG was about expression and symbolism, not just about technology...Graham stayed true til the end...True enuff to give his life up just for the destiny of it all...

Well, it would have been of course a bit stupid for Graham to not rely on the newest technology when it becomes available but back when he was offered command of the Union's GN-X squad, he said he wanted to defeat a Gundam in a Flag to avenge Howard Mason and grant him his last request (implying "the same suit Howard died in").
Considering Graham did so well in the OverFlag agains the Thrones, and being as confident in his skills as he is, it didn't seem too much out-of-character at this point for him to decide to keep fighting in an OverFlag.
Of course, I have not missed that the Flag is merely a symbol, but there is little point if the symbol is just a metallic shell and actually a completely different machine.

Also, Graham is a soldier : when he was given the GN-X, and as much as I liked his reaction at the time character-wise, he actually acted, plot-wise, like a spoiled ace pilot or like a Diva.
In the military, I believe you don't get much choice which unit you are piloting and the higher-ups decide where you are the most useful.
Graham's decision to still pilot a Flag only gave work and wasted precious Union resources (with Eifman gone, Billy is probably one of the most important Union military scientists) and his battle experience and squadron-commander skills may have been more useful right at the start of operation "Fallen Angels" than at its end when he is all alone then.

I think the GN Flag is an amazing design and I'm glad it existed, but as nutype said, Graham seems to get away with anything : ace pilot or not, I don't see any valid reason for the Union higher-ups to have granted his demand to not pilot a GN-X, effectively ruling him out of the most important military operation they ever launched.

[mougrim]

Originally Posted by Vorenus

I think the GN Flag is an amazing design and I'm glad it existed, but as nutype said, Graham seems to get away with anything : ace pilot or not, I don't see any valid reason for the Union higher-ups to have granted his demand to not pilot a GN-X, effectively ruling him out of the most important military operation they ever launched.

Earth in the state of war. Soldier refused to pilot unit he was assigned for...They not only not punished him, but agreed with all his whims and even custom modified his Flag (that sure cost a lot of money). This is not even realistic...

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by mougrim

Earth in the state of war. Soldier refused to pilot unit he was assigned for...They not only not punished him, but agreed with all his whims and even custom modified his Flag (that sure cost a lot of money). This is not even realistic...

Using our own interpretation of the military, that would be horribly absurd, of course. To be fair, though, we don't really know how the military in 00 works, or even whether the producers know what the hell's going on in the militaries of each and every country to make it look even more convincing and realistic. It may sound like an excuse, but I doubt realism can always be shown in most of the things in which realism can be applied to.

I've been thinking on this as well, and was wondering if his unit with him being the leader actually gave him one (or at least half) of a free rein in a certain sense. Unfortunately they never really elaborated on that because of the time spent on CB and the fights in space. If only they had a little bit more time...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by mougrim

Earth in the state of war. Soldier refused to pilot unit he was assigned for...They not only not punished him, but agreed with all his whims and even custom modified his Flag (that sure cost a lot of money). This is not even realistic...

Some in the Union might argue that Graham was losing his mind. But then, he did lose a lot of comrades in quick succession. Graham had a troubled military history, and only his talents kept him in the army. The top brass probably wasn't prepared to discharge him just yet, hoping that he would return to his old rational self pre-Gundam if only given a little more time. Forcing him to fight against his will might cause him to resign.

As for money for rebuilding the Flag, I do believe that wouldn't be an issue. Whatever money spent was likely from a preexisting fund, most likely siphoned from Billy's research grants. Billy could easily have written off the cost as part of his R&D on GN drives, as technically it was entirely relevant.

From my perspective, Graham was probably not even sent out into battle; on paper he might have merely been performing "weapon testing" for Billy, with the real intention of fighting Gundams.

Graham has become a lose cannon, which is a pity. Then again, didn't Char went completely insane overtime as well? We really need more psychiatrists on duty in Gundam armies.

[mougrim]

Hmm... when I think about it... maybe someone of the high-rank Union commanders really allow this modification? I mean, probably not all commanders fully trusted "gift suits" aka GN-X and someone of them (after Graham's report) allowed modification of existed, tested and battle-proved suit, as it may be useful in future, when Union will begin building their own GN-powered battle suits.

[Vorenus]

Originally Posted by mougrim

Hmm... when I think about it... maybe someone of the high-rank Union commanders really allow this modification? I mean, probably not all commanders fully trusted "gift suits" aka GN-X and someone of them (after Graham's report) allowed modification of existed, tested and battle-proved suit, as it may be useful in future, when Union will begin building their own GN-powered battle suits.

By the way, I don't think it was really made clear (or if it was, I completely missed it) where the GN-X came from ? Where they given along the GN drives or were they designed by the UN engineers themselves, in which case, they really did quick and amazing job, so I would rather go with the first.

Anyway, to come back to Graham, you're right and the next step was to refit their existing designs with GN Drives (or create their own new ones), but at this point, it was not the priority for them : the priority was eliminating the Gundams and it is why Graham getting his own GN Flag just because he asked for it is difficult to buy because at that time they wanted to have as many mobile suits standing a chance against Gundams in the battle field.

That said, you're right to say there was trust problem since if these units were designed and manufactured by Alejandro, they probably had some time-bomb or remote disabling mechanism to turn them off when they would have become troublesome. : There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, after all...
Unless it was built-in the GN Drive itself, the GN-X would be disabled while the GN Flag would still continue functionning... but I don't think we are going to see that now anyway...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Vorenus

By the way, I don't think it was really made clear (or if it was, I completely missed it) where the GN-X came from ? Where they given along the GN drives or were they designed by the UN engineers themselves, in which case, they really did quick and amazing job, so I would rather go with the first.

Anyway, to come back to Graham, you're right and the next step was to refit their existing designs with GN Drives (or create their own new ones), but at this point, it was not the priority for them : the priority was eliminating the Gundams and it is why Graham getting his own GN Flag just because he asked for it is difficult to buy because at that time they wanted to have as many mobile suits standing a chance against Gundams in the battle field.

That said, you're right to say there was trust problem since if these units were designed and manufactured by Alejandro, they probably had some time-bomb or remote disabling mechanism to turn them off when they would have become troublesome...
Unless it was built-in the GN Drive itself, the GN-X would be disabled while the GN Flag would still continue functionning... but I don't think we are going to see that now anyway...

We used to think the GN-tau might have some tricks in them. But now that we see even Corner using the Tau himself, it is apparent that he himself doesn't have the access to the true GN-drives (or otherwise don't see the point of going through the trouble).

Current information suggests that he did gave GN-tau tech to world leaders, with apparently no drawbacks. The excuse here, is that he has already infiltrated the world's political system and only needed CB out of the way before he can take over. The GN-tau gifts did two things; weaken CB, and made people ask less questions when Corner turned up with his golden MA to "save the day".
If Corner could become a major leader of the world without fighting anyone, there isn't any reason to sabotage the GN-X.

[Deleted spoiler - 4Tran]

[Jeffry2009]

i'll apologize about my lack of english because This show will never be forget even Ali is still alive but still he has now held captived. Can you guys just say to me 'You can rest easy, the show will continue this fall.'. MISSION FAILED i mean Lockons is dead, Setsuna has finally gone in space even allehujah & tieria and then i'm sorry what i just say 'Burn in hell' last time because i just hate that Alejandro Corner character before because he's EEEVIILLLL!!

I'm not complaining, okay? i just try to explain how am i feel i'm gonna cry after i watched that episode. how do guys felt after the final episode ends?

PS: i'm not good at the gundam mechas but i prefer to focus on character instead like setsuna F seiei or Allehujah. that makes me 'Blush'. *switch to yaoi fangirl mode* yeah, excuse me of my stupidity, guys......

What was that again? Oh well.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Not caring about differing Gundam Meisters might make some sense, but it certainly wasn't the wisest action. If Corner hadn't died, he would likely be the new leader of the Earth Federation by now. And Graham would be one of his many puppets. No matter how you spin it, Graham was working for the man who commanded the Thrones. His revenge should be against Corner, but Graham went for the obvious target instead.

Technically speaking, both should have been Graham's enemies. They were threats to the security of his country, and should have been treated accordingly.

Originally Posted by The Small One

The point is, that those containers only have enough space for a single Gundam. Since the remains of Dynames are already inside, there shouldn't have been enough space to take up the other units. Tieria ejected his drive, H/Allelujah's machine was probably able to fly on its ow, however Setsuna's Gundam was out of power and drifting towards earth.

Since they're in space, it's possible to simply strap a mobile suit or other gear onto the transport, so there's no need for interior space for it. While Setsuna was drifting in the vague direction of Earth, the battle took place at least 200,000 km from the ground, so there's an awful lot of time for someone to recover him (even if the drift vector was directly towards the earth).

Originally Posted by Vorenus

Well, when you hear them seeing stuff "I'm going first, Allelujah", "I still have to eject the GN Drive before meeting with Lockon in the after-life" and "When you'll read this, I'll not be of this World anymore", it is heavily implying they are dead.

While there might be a little implication there, the status of the Meisters is nowhere near dire enough for death to be much of an issue. If we examine the situations closer:

- Hallelujah saying that he's "going first" also implies that Allelujah won't die yet.
- Tieria ejecting his GN drive implies that he's expecting rescue sometime soon. If he weren't, he would have tried to destory it instead.
- Setsuna's letter is a deliberate piece of misdirection (and not exactly playing fair with the audience), but the idea behind it was for two reasons that have nothing to do with him dying. The first is to involve Marina again after she had been effectively written out of the story for the last dozen episodes. The second is to use the letter as a way to show Setsuna's point of view and change over the course of the show - this is something that the creators have tried doing in various scenes, but haven't been particularly effective at accomplishing, so it earns points for trying.

As far as credibility goes, there are plenty of areas that could use improvement, but this particular bit (at least in regard to the Meisters) isn't really one of them. You do have a point of all the questions (justified or not) of "is he/she dead or not?" It's okay to see it once in a while, but when it's applied all over the place with Kinue, Aeolia, Patrick and Ali

Originally Posted by Vorenus

Tomino made Turn A to unite Gundam and bind all the Alternate Universes altogether so Gundam does not need such a prequel to complete the saga.

I think that it was a good idea for all the subsequent Gundam creative teams to ignore what he did with Turn A.

Originally Posted by mougrim

Earth in the state of war. Soldier refused to pilot unit he was assigned for...They not only not punished him, but agreed with all his whims and even custom modified his Flag (that sure cost a lot of money). This is not even realistic...

You are correct with regard to many militaries; but surprisingly, there's historical precedent for this. In World War II, many German veterans stuck with their Bf 109Es after Bf 109Fs had replaced them. In World War I, von Richtofen's preference for using his index finger for firing guns rather than the standard thumb trigger led to a design change throughout the entire German Army Air Service.

Originally Posted by Vorenus

That said, you're right to say there was trust problem since if these units were designed and manufactured by Alejandro, they probably had some time-bomb or remote disabling mechanism to turn them off when they would have become troublesome. : There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, after all...
Unless it was built-in the GN Drive itself, the GN-X would be disabled while the GN Flag would still continue functionning... but I don't think we are going to see that now anyway...

There was no way that any explosive device would escape the notice of the engineers working on the GN-Xs, irrespective of whether such devices are in the suit or the drive. Moreover, if such a device were to be found, it'd instantly undermine Alejandro's credibility.


jafri, you can relax; the remaining Meisters probably all survived, and we'll see more of them this fall.


[Is it possible to cut down the talk about the weaknesses of the GN Tau drives until they are discussed in the anime?]

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by nutype

seems like graham can get away with anything. I consider myself very mature but when graham confesses his "love" to setsuna like that I can't really help but be shocked and have a smirk on my face. The first thought that came to my mind was "gay" then followed by a "lol." Of course everyone seems willing to defend him because he's graham afterall, he flied the cool overflag and beat johann with an inferior MS.

I have a feeling that graham is going to stoop lower and lower in S2 until the point where most of you will not be vouching for his character anymore. Perhaps it will be him getting owned very badly next time around or maybe him being more open with his homosexuality.

The evidence is really piling up btw. The fact he brought up horoscopes in his first battle of setsuna was a dead give-away anyways....I don't understand what you people need to see to confirm that graham is gay (and a pedophile since setsuna is underage???) not that there is anything wrong with that!

Graham loves gundam, not Setsuna. Graham is not a homo. He's just obsessed with gundams.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Technically speaking, both should have been Graham's enemies. They were threats to the security of his country, and should have been treated accordingly.

The only person responsible for threatening the security of his country was Corner and his Thrones. The Union had in fact benefited from the actions of the original Meisters.

The only reason Graham had been ordered to fight them at all was to perform Government-sanctioned highway robbery. Security had nothing to do with it.

[mougrim]

Originally Posted by Vorenus

By the way, I don't think it was really made clear (or if it was, I completely missed it) where the GN-X came from ? Where they given along the GN drives or were they designed by the UN engineers themselves, in which case, they really did quick and amazing job, so I would rather go with the first.

When Ali talked with Ragna, he said that he want for exchange for his service one of suits that he transported, or something like that. So it seems that suits are came from Alehandro, as well as Tau GN-Drives.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The only person responsible for threatening the security of his country was Corner and his Thrones. The Union had in fact benefited from the actions of the original Meisters.

The only reason Graham had been ordered to fight them at all was to perform Government-sanctioned highway robbery. Security had nothing to do with it.

No it didn't. They damaged the Union's economy and were an ever present and unpredicatable threat to their security that could not be quantified. All they had to go on is one opening statement and observed behavior up until that time, behavior that could easily change on a whim. Not to mention Celestial Being has no respect for soverignity or international laws or treaties.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by mougrim

Hmm... when I think about it... maybe someone of the high-rank Union commanders really allow this modification? I mean, probably not all commanders fully trusted "gift suits" aka GN-X and someone of them (after Graham's report) allowed modification of existed, tested and battle-proved suit, as it may be useful in future, when Union will begin building their own GN-powered battle suits.

With the whole GN-Flag, most likely, they had managed to get an extra GN-Drive from a damaged GN-X suit that was too damaged to be repaired. They lose about three of them every time they go in to battle, after all, so it would make sense for one to be hideously maimed and left permanently deactivated. Then they decided to put a GN-Drive in Graham's Flag, since he's an ace pilot who is more than capable of taking on the Thrones in his flag without the drive. All things considered, his battle record is probably what gave the military the incentive to grant his wishes. I would do the same, if he were a pilot under my command. Plus, it makes a good test bed and gives mechanics and engineers the experience to change the design of a pre-existing mobile suit to accomodate a GN-Drive, which could be useful if they became mass-produced. Then they could fit them in super-heavy machinery.

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Graham loves gundam, not Setsuna. Graham is not a homo. He's just obsessed with gundams.

We know that. We're just making fun of him because of his poor choice of words. Even Setsuna was surprised. Setsuna is a popular guy, now that he has both a female love interest, and a male love interest!

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

No it didn't. They damaged the Union's economy and were an ever present and unpredicatable threat to their security that could not be quantified. All they had to go on is one opening statement and observed behavior up until that time. Not to mention Celestial Being has no respect for soverignity or international laws or treaties.

Actually, President Brian didn't see it that way. He viewed CB as a convenient replacement for the Union to leave the world-police job to. The greatest clue that they aren't directly threatening them is the fact that there wasn't anything they could do to stop CB from blowing up the WhiteHouse, but CB had not performed such acts or made any such threats. CB was unstoppable, and yet their sovereignty was not threatened.

Funny you mention not respecting sovereignty or international law. President Brian doesn't seem to consider that at all unusual, or even that bad. His own words was that "CB is doing our job for us".

As for damaging the economy, do you mean the Poppy Fields or the Blood Diamonds?

[mougrim]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

- Setsuna's letter is a deliberate piece of misdirection (and not exactly playing fair with the audience), but the idea behind it was for two reasons that have nothing to do with him dying. The first is to involve Marina again after she had been effectively written out of the story for the last dozen episodes. The second is to use the letter as a way to show Setsuna's point of view and change over the course of the show - this is something that the creators have tried doing in various scenes, but haven't been particularly effective at accomplishing, so it earns points for trying.

It is a perfect chance for Setsuna to break up with CB if he really want this. But this is really pointless suggestion until we see second season.