2010-07-05, 09:59 | Link #12881 | |
Shall we do it?
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1) Nanjo makes sure she was dead. 2) The meta layer, when brought up, makes every source of life freeze except the people within that layer. (In this case, Battler and Beatrice-sama.) 3) I'm a total bitch. I'm sorry if I totally crushed that theory, I didn't mean to argue. Just tweaking it.
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2010-07-05, 10:13 | Link #12882 | ||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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You trust Nanjo? Seriously?... Quote:
Mind you, I'm not convinced that what I described is what really happened, because there are other interesting things that are odd with the scene, but these counterarguments are not good enough. This possible scenario just explains Beatrice's "oops, Jessica is also included" as that's a way how Jessica could be a corpse and a non-corpse in a span of time short enough create ambiguity.
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2010-07-05, 10:20 | Link #12883 | |
Shall we do it?
Graphic Designer
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Why shouldn't I trust Nanjo? But you are right. I even have The Nanjo/Kanon Culprit Theory against him. You beat me outright. XD
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2010-07-05, 10:35 | Link #12884 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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To be very precise though, I do think that this particular red should be interpreted this way: The red is uttered after a letter from Beatrice is read out. There is no longer any question that Jessica is dead to those present in the room, her clothes have been searched, and if she is not dead, only Nanjo knows about this for sure. She pretty definitely is dead, unless there's a fake stake floating around. "Now" therefore refers to a moment after everyone has been in the room for some ten minutes or so. When Jessica's corpse was discovered, (i.e. when the object we now know as 'Jessica's corpse' was first seen, and which now is unambiguously Jessica's corpse) only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room. Whoops, the corpse of Jessica is also included (because at the time of discovery, what is now known as Jessica's corpse was a living or dying Jessica, so if the red was not amended in this way, it would become invalid.) While interpretations of this red are possible which do not require Jessica to actually be dead, they make every red that uses the word 'corpse' ambiguous, which is something we must avoid. So I agree that Jessica is dead at the moment this red is uttered -- but conclude that at the exact moment when the corpse was discovered and all the people mentioned in red finished entering the room, she was not dead yet. Whether she was dying already by the time she was discovered or subtly killed afterwards is an open question, but 'dying already' has to be far more likely.
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2010-07-05, 10:51 | Link #12885 |
Shall we do it?
Graphic Designer
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Oh I get it. You are saying that Jessica was already dead? I misunderstood that.
I'll just proceed to explaining what my theory is. Spoiler for Ep1, Nanjo/Kanon Theory:
Doctors are EVIL. Nanjo kills everyone, kills himself last, then Natsuhi kills herself.
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2010-07-05, 11:14 | Link #12886 | |||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I find an utterly incompetent Nanjo more believable than Nanjo who knows his patient is still alive, but is going to die any moment, and doing nothing, though. Notice that he is never described actually examining Jessica in detail -- it is not said if he checks her pulse, he never pulls out a mirror to check for breathing, he never tests for a pupil reflex... It is, however, quite possible that he didn't expect Jessica to actually be dead, and thought that fake murders are supposed to continue, and it's his job to confirm Jessica dead without further ado. Jessica instead died because she was actually hurt and nobody saved her. Quote:
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And then there's one red from much later that makes it very unlikely Kanon died at all: All of the survivors have alibis! Let us include the dead as well!! In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon! While that bit about the alibis is somewhat nonsensical, since it does not actually require for the alibis to be valid (someone can lie, and it's still an alibi, technically), the continuation remains in force -- no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon. The only logical way out of this is that Kanon did not die at all, because he also did not die in an accident and did not commit suicide...
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2010-07-05, 11:15 | Link #12887 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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=3 |
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2010-07-05, 11:40 | Link #12892 | |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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But if taken seriously, in addition to Nanjo is not a murderer, Natsuhi couldn't have killed herself, as Natsuhi was killed by another person! I've been wondering about the new Jessica-look alike... Is s/he the person X (from Kuwadorian)? If Shkanon is true, there is room for one more... The man from 19 years ago? But as the rules of Knox say, the culprit cannot be someone not introduced early in the game. But could s/he be the visitor people saw in EP2? S/he looks like Beatrice a little as well... But is s/he a man or a woman anyway? S/he could probably be regarded as either on first meeting. If it's a man after all, why does she look like Jessica? I don't know how serious I can be with this but here goes: The new blonde is Jessica. Jessica is actually male! She's been singing Tsurupettan, and Battler said to her early in EP1 that "even you managed to get a chest"! According to people a few pages back, Jessica has buttons on the man-side (like the new blonde) and Jessica speaks like a guy, maybet it's just some kind of old habit, but that raises the question why and when did she started acting as a girl? The new character is Jessica's true self. Also as a male she'd be a better candidate for the new head. We've been trolled this far to deny Kanon's existence, believing in Shannon crossdressing and all that, so we've failed to see the truth. It's actually Kanon's girlfriend who's been fooling everyone since the beginning. What made her do that, Battler's sin maybe? What do you think, everyone? |
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2010-07-05, 11:45 | Link #12893 | |
Second Stake of Sloth
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Last edited by DanielMors; 2010-07-05 at 12:01. |
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2010-07-05, 11:48 | Link #12895 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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However, in the EP7 opening, it seems that the furnitures, servants, and adults are being matched with their Magical - Mirror (or w/e) or teammates ! (Jessca and Ronove, Leviathan with Kyrie, etc.). I think this also means the furnitures will be 'executed' as well. Still thinking about the purpose of the new characters as well. New pieces, related to Ushiromiya, .... any Chess-Rules that include this metaphorically?
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2010-07-05, 11:51 | Link #12896 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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That would still make Umineko the longest coming-out-of-the-closet story ever written, which would also nicely explain why the Ushiromiya never look into closets if they can help it. It's not just skeletons hiding in there...
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2010-07-05, 11:53 | Link #12897 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I'll have you know that it's because I know that I said "pink".
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2010-07-05, 11:55 | Link #12898 | |
Shall we do it?
Graphic Designer
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In EP1-EP4,no more than 17 people on this island. Has anyone noticed there are only 4 survivors in the end? In EP1, The extra death was Natsuhi. In EP2, Kinzo, since he was dead from the very beginning. EP3, on the other hand, has one surviver. In EP4, Rosa, in defense of Goldsmith. In Ep5 ????? In EP6 ????? I can't disregard that Nat did not kill herself. I forgot about Natsuhi being killed by other people.
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2010-07-05, 11:58 | Link #12899 | |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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It really would be a most queer story... As Jessica would be gay for an imaginary friend. Unless their whole love story was fake as well. |
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2010-07-05, 11:59 | Link #12900 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Ahh, yes.
I still forgot the fact that Battler's 'sin' has influenced the murders, or at least 'people die because of his sin'. Wait, does this go into regards of his sin making EVERYONE die on Rokkenjima? Also, the new Jessica-look-a-like seems to have clothes very similar to Kanon's sprite. Hint hint ?
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