The H.264/AVC/MPEG4 discussion thread

[Power2All]

.... people never learn to stop themself from flaming don't they -_-
Anywayz, MKV/MP4 fanboys too much here...

@Harukalover

Yah I understand MKV does all have those other features.
It's just I don't see the point in using them if I don't use them at all.
AVI with H.264 works just well.
If the B-Frame is a hack, so be it.
Nobody, except you "pro's" are complaining about this since nobody else have problems with it.

About the upscaled raw is because the upscaled raw was recorded that BIG.
Don't ask me why tho, but it looks good in the end tho XD

H.264 in AVI just works splendid sofar and I have nothing to complain about

[edit]
I wasn't complaining about you harukalover.....
Uchikatsu is a known flamer if you didn't know that ^^

[edit2]
Yes I used MKV and OGM before.
I have my experience with these codecs, and I just don't use them for such reasons as which has been stated.

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by Power2All

.... people never learn to stop themself from flaming don't they -_-
Anywayz, MKV/MP4 fanboys too much here...

I believe I approached your feelings on H264 in AVI with sincerity did I not?

It's rather rude to just ignore my questions... -_-

EDIT: Ignore earlier statement. I guess you just didn't notice the post at first. :P

Originally Posted by Power2All

@Harukalover

Yah I understand MKV does all have those other features.
It's just I don't see the point in using them if I don't use them at all.

If you have no use for the features then there's no reason for you to encode to them. (Though the official support for H264 I believe should be enough reason for there use) I do think a lot of it's features are worth the format change and I hope you have tried them out before but it is your decision whether to use it or not.

Originally Posted by Power2All

AVI with H.264 works just well.
If the B-Frame is a hack, so be it.
Nobody, except you "pro's" are complaining about this since nobody else have problems with it.

I've seen regular viewers complain as well. Usually something along the lines of the audio going out of sync since it lags in video. While in an MKV/MP4 H264 video never lagged for them.

Originally Posted by Power2All

About the upscaled raw is because the upscaled raw was recorded that BIG.
Don't ask me why tho, but it looks good in the end tho XD

I hate to be an ass and am in no way looking for a fight. But you even admit it's upscaled here... (Resized to 1280x720). The show isn't airing at that resolution. I only bring this up since I have seen the video and it is rather blurry and oversmoothed. I really suggest using a different raw. (There was some really good 704x396 ones)

Though I know you did a Low-Res version. (Guessing 704x396?) I hope you used a raw at that size originally and didn't resize the 1280x720 one to that did you? (I can't say if you did since I didn't get the chance to check it out yet.)

Originally Posted by Power2All

H.264 in AVI just works splendid sofar and I have nothing to complain about

There's many that wouldn't agree with that statement. But I believe that's for your testing and to learn through your own experiences if facts can't do it. I won't join in on the attacks others have done because of this fault.

[Power2All]

Originally Posted by Harukalover

I believe I approached your feelings on H264 in AVI with sincerity did I not?

It's rather rude to just ignore my questions... -_-

EDIT: Ignore earlier statement. I guess you just didn't notice the post at first. :P



If you have no use for the features then there's no reason for you to encode to them. (Though the official support for H264 I believe should be enough reason for there use) I do think a lot of it's features are worth the format change and I hope you have tried them out before but it is your decision whether to use it or not.



I've seen regular viewers complain as well. Usually something along the lines of the audio going out of sync since it lags in video. While in an MKV/MP4 H264 video never lagged for them.



I hate to be an ass and am in no way looking for a fight. But you even admit it's upscaled here... (Resized to 1280x720). The show isn't airing at that resolution. I only bring this up since I have seen the video and it is rather blurry and oversmoothed. I really suggest using a different raw. (There was some really good 704x396 ones)

Though I know you did a Low-Res version. (Guessing 704x396?) I hope you used a raw at that size originally and didn't resize the 1280x720 one to that did you? (I can't say if you did since I didn't get the chance to check it out yet.)



There's many that wouldn't agree with that statement. But I believe that's for your testing and to learn through your own experiences if facts can't do it. I won't join in on the attacks others have done because of this fault.

The reason I started discussing was not a way of flaming, but just giving my oppinion of my experience with the format.
People can make mistakes with their statements (as you saw with my editting).
Problem mostly is that one part of the people get their experience from co-encoders and others from their users that watch the anime.
That is, as sometimes I see, a big gap.

The upscaling is not done software matic.
The capturing was just recorded bigger then usual, which I clearly see.
When upscalling, the quality is even worse, since I tried that myself some time ago too ^^

Back to topic, I clearly tried MKV/MP4 encoders and actually, just to say the truth, I don't "dislike" them, it's just that I don't need them for the purpose that I'm using it for ^^

[Medalist]

The upscaling is not done software matic.
The capturing was just recorded bigger then usual, which I clearly see.

[flame]It's still upscaling be it software matic or not which it is. Why the fucking hell would you capture something that's 704x396 to 1280x720...a clear upscale since they (the capper) predetermine it as HD. You don't got damn record something that's 704x396 to 1280x720 no fucking recorder does that..honestly...[/flame]

[Power2All]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

[flame]It's still upscaling be it software matic or not which it is. Why the fucking hell would you capture something that's 704x396 to 1280x720...a clear upscale since they (the capper) predetermine it as HD. You don't got damn record something that's 704x396 to 1280x720 no fucking recorder does that..honestly...[/flame]

In some way you got a point there.
But on the otherside, did you ever tried yourself recording a television show to 1280 with a lower size ?
If not, try it once and see that it is much clearer then when you use Vdub or some other resizer.
I myself cannot explain this precisely why the real record in bigger size looks clearer then using a software filter to resize.

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by Power2All

In some way you got a point there.
But on the otherside, did you ever tried yourself recording a television show to 1280 with a lower size ?
If not, try it once and see that it is much clearer then when you use Vdub or some other resizer.
I myself cannot explain this precisely why the real record in bigger size looks clearer then using a software filter to resize.

Oo something you say makes sense you can do 1280 lower but see it's a down scale when they cap it on their computer or dvd record...so in the end they still are effecting the video itself. But overall better quality I guess?
[flame]When you are fucking upscaling from the real "DirectShowSource" it's transforming/upscaling that video into such a resolution.( It's using Raw Material and Converting it to that) - Filtering is taking Original Content and upscaling that...which just messes it up because you are just making the pixels smaller(i suppose) and adding more than originally was there and thus adding more then what's needed.[/flame]

[Power2All]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

Oo something you say makes sense you can do 1280 lower but see it's a down scale when they cap it on their computer or dvd record...so in the end they still are effecting the video itself. But overall better quality I guess?
[flame]When you are fucking upscaling from the real "DirectShowSource" it's transforming/upscaling that video into such a resolution.( It's using Raw Material and Converting it to that) - Filtering is taking Original Content and upscaling that...which just messes it up because you are just making the pixels smaller(i suppose) and adding more than originally was there and thus adding more then what's needed.[/flame]

That is not really a flame.
I like that idea indeed.
And I precisely understand what you mean.
When recording upscaled you record actually some small things that you dont see when recording 1 on 1 from a TV.

At the moment I am thinking of keeping with 704p or not.
THs because we are already at episode 2 and a change would be asking for re-encoding all other 2 episodes that we're released already -_-

[Medalist]

Well, that's always dependant on the encoder and if it's group members agree as such. That's all i can say.

[Power2All]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

Well, that's always dependant on the encoder and if it's group members agree as such. That's all i can say.

You don't know the founder ^^
He can be very picky, so it's up to him.
I'm just doing my encode job the best as I can ^^

[Arimfe]

Originally Posted by Power2All

I'm just doing my encode job the best as I can ^^

No, you are doing what avi allows you to.

[Power2All]

Originally Posted by Arimfe

No, you are doing what avi allows you to.

Now THATS what I call flaming.
Stop harrassing me with silly responses.

[DryFire]

The containter won't limit the filters that can be applied beforehand.

We all flamed P2A before, you're wasting your time. Just set him to ignore and be done with it.

[Medalist]

Posts like this is going to get this beautiful thread closed or locked

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by Power2All

Now THATS what I call flaming.
Stop harrassing me with silly responses.

I believe he's more of pointing to the limitations of the AVI format you have always stuck to. Doesn't mean it's flaming. AVI does have many limitations compared to other containers.

If you wanted to do the best possible job you would switch to another container. Unless your founder has some type of evil love of AVI only and will hang you for using any other container.

[Medalist]

Edited Due to Harsh Language against people from Chile.

(Edited: Would you rather have 8gig h264 files or 234mb h264 files?) ask yourself that.

[Power2All]

Fact is still, you all are kicking my ass for using AVI.
Wasn't this not a discussion instead of kicking each others asses ?
Since it's starting to become a flamewar with idiots trying to proof me wrong in any way, just like you do now too Harukalover.
And he was not pointing the limitations, he was trying to make me go into attack again, as Uchi tried too.

The fact still here is: AVI works great with Xvid and Divx, H.264 it wasn't specially created for but it still works fine with VfW.
Everybody hates VfW, so what....
If you don't like it, then don't use it, so be it.
I use it and I like it, any other problems privately which you guys have with me only becuz I use VfW, is pointless and stupid behaviour.

[edit]
I think childish bitch figthing about someone's look of view and point of view is a lack of XP and you shouldn't be posting on this forum if you cannot handle a discussion.
Go make a "The H.264/AVC/MPEG4 discussion thread + Flaming"-thread if you want so much to bitch about someones discussion.
I saw some really good responses from Harukalover, I was kinda postive about him, but after the last post my doubts are Rising again.

[edit2]
Since this discussion is once again not a discussion but just to force someone to change is pointless.
Everybody is bitching at each other, and I just posted 1 bloody thing about a point of view and everybody starts to bitchslap as precisely I thought it would.
This show how immature people can be.....
THis discussion here is pointless as ever....

[edit3]
(edits are keeping coming)
Just to show how low people can go:
Nicholi: "Perhaps Power2Lamers will do it?"
Uchikatsu: "Power2Ass you fail"

So you dont mind you calling uchi-suck-my-@#$% and Nicholi calling Nichloride ?
Really, low, verrrry low.

[Harukalover]

Originally Posted by Power2All

Fact is still, you all are kicking my ass for using AVI.
Wasn't this not a discussion instead of kicking each others asses ?

All I have seen right now is people mention the limitations of AVI being a hindrance on your encodes. And this is true. So why can't that be a discussion?

Originally Posted by Power2All

Since it's starting to become a flamewar with idiots trying to proof me wrong in any way, just like you do now too Harukalover.

You consider what I said as flaming?! WTF?!

Originally Posted by Power2All

And he was not pointing the limitations, he was trying to make me go into attack again, as Uchi tried too.

Now maybe this will be flaming, but I think your perhaps a tad paranoid?

Originally Posted by Power2All

The fact still here is: AVI works great with Xvid and Divx, H.264 it wasn't specially created for but it still works fine with VfW.

It doesn't work great with XviD or H264.

/me points to b-frame support not being existant.

Originally Posted by Power2All

Everybody hates VfW, so what....
If you don't like it, then don't use it, so be it.
I use it and I like it, any other problems privately which you guys have with me only becuz I use VfW, is pointless and stupid behaviour.

Well I didn't attack this so I don't think I need to address it. (I only mentioned that AVI has limitations, whether you like using it instead of supporting containers is your business)

Originally Posted by Power2All

[edit]
I think childish bitch figthing about someone's look of view and point of view is a lack of XP and you shouldn't be posting on this forum if you cannot handle a discussion.

Uchikatsu has demonstrated this very much. But I barely saw much else of flaming. Saying a fact isn't a flame. Nobody defamed you right now. (Maybe Dryfire but that seems to be more from frustration of your unwillingness to listen to other points of views without sayings it's flaming).

Originally Posted by Power2All

I saw some really good responses from Harukalover, I was kinda postive about him, but after the last post my doubts are Rising again.

I guess I fail cause I don't like H264 in AVI and am willing to say AVI has limits? Or cause I questioned you for thinking you were being flamed when I believed you weren't?

[Power2All]

All ok and well, you all are still ignoring the main reason I posted this.
And don't try to ask what it was again.
Go look on other topics where I stated #### times what it was why I posted this.
I dont care about the containers, im talking about playback abilities, not how small a file could be, or b-frame hackage or whatever.

[Medalist]

I bitch and moan all the time, got a problem? I speak the real truth and I emphasize it.

[Arimfe]

Originally Posted by Power2All

And he was not pointing the limitations

That was actually my intention.
Exactly as Harukalover put it below.

Originally Posted by Harukalover

I believe he's more of pointing to the limitations of the AVI format you have always stuck to. Doesn't mean it's flaming. AVI does have many limitations compared to other containers.

If you wanted to do the best possible job you would switch to another container. Unless your founder has some type of evil love of AVI only and will hang you for using any other container.

Originally Posted by Power2All

he was trying to make me go into attack again

Chill and go back read my post again, if a "No" and a "you are doing what avi allows you to(restricts you to)" offends you, then you have my apologies.

AVI has limitations, this isn't flaming, it's reality and truth.