Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Archon_Wing]

Side Note: F Reckoner for coming up with the blank "Good section" before I tried anything like that. Well, I should have done that with certain episodes of Another.

Though most of the bad I can accept, except the part about Reinforce /orz

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The transformation scenes were all there was to the ecchi fanservice. At least from what I can remember of the movie.

Outside of transformation scenes, there's nothing particularly sexualized in how the characters in this movie are presented, imo. And personally, I'm thankful for that.

VRO and Strike Witches shows that you can get a lot more fanservicey than this.

They're also not as young! Yea, I know it's anime, but VRO at least has fairly developed physically characters.

Well, IMO, one thing movie 1st did well was cut out the creepy "pedo" moments in season 1. Except that one transformation part which isn't too bad, that one detail makes the whole thing awkward.

By A's, we didn't have anything fanservicey.

It's not really a deal breaker by any means. It's just one of those tiny prickly things that annoys me every time it gets brought up. I mean, by the time of StrikerS, people are rooting over those transformations. (can we have tits there?)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I was going to be snarky about this, but I won't.

Instead, I'm going to point out that every piece of official artwork that comes out of Japan tends to focus around NanoFate or Fate (or if it's ViVid, Vivio and Einhart). And even if it doesn't Fate's usually in the artwork itself.

So, it's not that you can't have nice things (again, resisting the urge to snark here), it's that a lot of us might be getting kind of tired of it and were hoping for something different. Again, I was mainly looking for awesome action sequences (and Determinator!Nanoha) because I knew that was all I had a chance of seeing in the movie that I would enjoy.

But, as I've said for the past 20+ pages, that wasn't delivered.

Just to be clear, I've never considered fanworks to be a substitution for the real, professionally-made anime.

But to be fair, I get what you're saying. Too much fanworks devoted to one particular topic, character or pairing can ruin you on it over time.

[Justin_Brett]

And apparently Fate and NanoFate fans shouldn't get any nice things at all in the Nanoha movies.

You got nice things in the first series, As, Strikers, Force, Vivid, and you still want more?

If you're a fan of a male character or even certain female ones you don't get shit.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

They're also not as young! Yea, I know it's anime, but VRO at least has fairly developed physically characters.

Archon_Wing - Would be completely fine with loads of 9-year old Nanoha/Fate fanservice as long as they had more developed T & A.

Sorry, I couldn't resist, lol.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

You got nice things in the first series, As, Strikers, Force, Vivid, and you still want more?

Two points:

1. I'm an anime fan, not a manga fan. I've read very little of the Nanoha manga.

2. You do realize how old the StrikerS anime is, right?


So yes, given how rarely we get new Nanoha anime these days, I want more nice things. Shocking, I know!

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

It's not really a deal breaker by any means. It's just one of those tiny prickly things that annoys me every time it gets brought up. I mean, by the time of StrikerS, people are rooting over those transformations.

non-loli boobs that bounce.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Just to be clear, I've never considered fanworks to be a substitution for the real, professionally-made anime.

But to be fair, I get what you're saying. Too much fanworks devoted to one particular topic, character or pairing can ruin you on it over time.

Actually, Triple_R, it's not fan-works.

It's official artwork. Mamoru here on AS posts a lot of it.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Archon_Wing - Would be completely fine with loads of 9-year old Nanoha/Fate fanservice as long as they had more developed T & A.

Sorry, I couldn't resist, lol.

Hey, there's a reason why StrikerS skips 10 years all of a sudden.

Compromise: They should look the same but change the ages. (Hey, Triple, I'm just making it easy on you. Canada has banned loli!)

Two points:

1. I'm an anime fan, not a manga fan. I've read very little of the Nanoha manga.

2. You do realize how old the StrikerS anime is, right?

It has been 6 years so quite a while aside from the movies. That and Vivid may contain chock full of that kind of stuff, but I for whatever reason don't want to bother with it, for arguably the same reasons as many other people that don't want it.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So yes, given how rarely we get new Nanoha anime these days, I want more nice things. Shocking, I know!

And yet you constantly criticize people who want nice things that aren't NanoFate as joykillers.

Interesting how that works.

[bhl88]

Wonder how to get those cards from Brave Duel with Nanoha the Movie 2nd A's cards...

[Keroko]

Ebay is often a good place to start. Searching for them at sites using Japanese and puzzling your way through them works too.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Keroko

And yet you constantly criticize people who want nice things that aren't NanoFate as joykillers.

No, I don't. I only make such criticisms when people basically imply that they want to get rid of all of the NanoFate material.

If somebody simply wrote "I'd like more Chrono in the film, or more Yuuno in the film." I wouldn't criticize someone over that.

But there's a difference between advocating for more of what you like and advocating against what loads of other people like. Some people here aren't just saying "More Chrono and Yuuno please." Some are also actively attacking Fate and NanoFate, and basically implying they'd like to get rid of all the scenes of Fate and NanoFate that make fans of them smile.

To be frank, I find these attacks very mean-spirited towards the majority of Nanoha fans.

[Nanya01]

The problem is, again, in the movie, if it wasn't the Wolkenritter, it was Nanoha and Fate on screen getting development and shafting the other characters.

So, when, as fans who want other stuff, watch that, we wonder why the NanoFate stuff was LEFT IN but other stuff wasn't put/left in for the other characters and then we just start... Wanting it gone.

Go for years having tons of official artwork shoving Nanoha and Fate down your throat when you want to see other characters BESIDES them sometimes and tell me how you feel.

I mean, would you like it, as a NanoFate fan, if, for years, you had to stomach Yuuno+Nanoha or Yuuno+Fate imagry and then the movie comes out and you are hoping for some awesome Fate or some nice NanoFate moments and then the movie fails to deliver and only gives what you wanted to see less than a few minutes of total screen time and the rest of the movie isn't what you were hoping for?

Look at my avatar, that's Sette, one of the cyborg girls from StrikerS.

I'd LOVE to see more official artwork of just the Numbers, but I know that if the Numbers are going to be there, I know that there's going to be Fate, Nanoha, Einhart and Vivio or some combination there-of, just to get an image of ONE character that I want to see.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

urusai, baka




is what a Japanese fanboy of the series might say, but since I'm not Japanese and aren't particularly defensive of the series, I'll just say nice review, was fun to read. I lol'd at the 'Good' section being completely blank. I take it you don't enjoy much of the Nanoha franchise in general? I vaguely remember you not caring much for the Loli Years (aka the original along with A's) but liking StrikerS, but I'm not sure if that's right.

Just for emphasis, if the movie truly had nothing redeemable it would've got a lower rating .

My impression of the franchise is as follows:

First season - first half sucked, got much better when Fate came into the picture.

Second Season - the highlight of the Nanoha franchise by far, and overall the most balanced and solid.

Strikers - Derp.

First Movie - Improvement over the first season, and was largely enjoyable. I'm glad they got rid of all the crappy parts of the first half of the first season, and Precia got better development.

And well I just think the second movie wasn't as good as the TV series in many ways, so obviously I'm disappointed.

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

The problem is, again, in the movie, if it wasn't the Wolkenritter, it was Nanoha and Fate on screen getting development and shafting the other characters.

So, when, as fans who want other stuff, watch that, we wonder why the NanoFate stuff was LEFT IN but other stuff wasn't put/left in for the other characters and then we just start... Wanting it gone.

Go for years having tons of official artwork shoving Nanoha and Fate down your throat when you want to see other characters BESIDES them sometimes and tell me how you feel.

I mean, would you like it, as a NanoFate fan, if, for years, you had to stomach Yuuno+Nanoha or Yuuno+Fate imagry and then the movie comes out and you are hoping for some awesome Fate or some nice NanoFate moments and then the movie fails to deliver and only gives what you wanted to see less than a few minutes of total screen time and the rest of the movie isn't what you were hoping for?

Look at my avatar, that's Sette, one of the cyborg girls from StrikerS.

I'd LOVE to see more official artwork of just the Numbers, but I know that if the Numbers are going to be there, I know that there's going to be Fate, Nanoha, Einhart and Vivio or some combination there-of, just to get an image of ONE character that I want to see.

If it isn't the Wolkies, who else is getting the screentime? You could give it to Chrono, Yuuno, Arf, Lindy, Amy... sure, but... why? They had roles in A's, but they were overall minor.

Nanoha and Fate are the main characters, so logically the bulk of the screentime should be long to the main cast: Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, and the Wolkenritter. No? Sure, Nanoha and Fate get the most, but they are the protagonists.

It's like watching The Hobbit and complaining Biblo gets too much screentime. He's the main character, of course he gets the most screentime!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

It's like watching The Hobbit and complaining Biblo gets too much screentime. He's the main character, of course he gets the most screentime!

Exactly.

To expand a bit on your analogy to make it fit a bit better, it's like watching The Hobbit and complaining that Bilbo and Gandalf get too much screentime.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, I don't. I only make such criticisms when people basically imply that they want to get rid of all of the NanoFate material.

Except most of us are just talking about one or two scenes that could make room for other material. Then you jump on them and claim they want to get rid of "all NanoFate material." Even though most people here never even mentioned that.

[Rising Dragon]

Part of the problem is that yes, Hayate and the Wolkenritter are the main characters of A's, or are supposed to be, and instead we got a movie that wrecked their characterizations, along with Nanoha's to a slight degree, and part of that is in favor of Fate's development. We have every right in the world to be unhappy with that outcome, but what do the lot of you care? You got your movie, you got good screentime for your favorite character, so to hell with what the other fans wanted or felt, right? That's what it's sounding like from some of you.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

It's like watching The Hobbit and complaining Biblo gets too much screentime. He's the main character, of course he gets the most screentime!

No.

It's like watching the Hobbit and seeing no one BUT Biblo do anything and get screen time.

And, kris, let me use Star Wars as an example here.

Yes, Luke, Han and Leia were the 3 main characters and Darth Vadar was the main antagonist, so they got the most screen time.

However, those movies (the first three) managed to flesh out their secondary characters for what they needed to do in the movies. Look at Jabba, Lando, Palpatine, Boba Fett, Chewy, R2D2, C3PO, Yoda, Obi-Wan...

Aren't all of them memorable? And aren't all of them pretty much secondary and minor characters?

And yet Star Wars still fleshed them out pretty well.

Or, to use your Batman analogy from earlier...

Batman is more well-known for his rogues gallery than for himself. Yes, he's a detective and he solves crimes and he has no powers of his own. You know who else has no powers of his own and does that in DC? Green Arrow, The Question, The Crimson Avenger... They're all basically Batman, so why is Batman so remembered?

The secondary, antagonistic and minor characters around him, that's why.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Boba Fett

Pffahahahaha, heehee. No. Boba Fett had all of five lines in Empire and Return combined. His screentime wasn't much more. He was basically the Chrono/Yuuno of Star Wars.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Exactly.

To expand a bit on your analogy to make a fit a bit better, it's like watching The Hobbit and complaining that Bilbo and Gandalf get too much screentime.

Well Triple, I agree somewhat. It would be like people complaining that Aiko doesn't get enough screentime in True Tears.


However, I guess it's not so clearcut. I'll try to be fair and ask you to consider the Star Trek: TNG movies, which centered heavily around Picard and Data, and shafted the rest, as opposed to the original series Star Trek movies which involved most of the cast actively.

There's also the Clannad movie and OVAs where I felt the lack of supporting characters made it less entertaining overall, even if they weren't plot critical.

I present to you these thought experiments, just feel free to pick and choose. Consider movie versions of the following anime where the following happens:

True Tears: Hiromi is minimized, but plot remains the same

Ore no Imouto:
a.) Only Kirino, Kyousuke, and Kuroneko are involved
b.) Only Kirino and Kyousuke is involved, with the others being given token scenes
c.) The plot is marginally about Kirino, but Kuroneko gets an intrusive amount of screen time.

Haruhi:
A.) The focus is exclusively on Yuki, with Haruhi making key apperances.
B.) Mikuru doesn't appear, except as fanservice
C.) There is no Asakura

Monogatari:
A.) Only Hitagi gets screentime and it's now just primarily a romance
B.) Shinobu is cut
C.) Nadeko and Mayoi are cut

Kanon
A.) Only Ayu (actually this is most likely to happen if there was a movie)
B.) Makoto and Shiori are written out
C.) Only Mai

Death Note: The investigation team gets almost no screentime, making it almost seen like it is investigator vs Kira

Madoka: It is now suddenly riddled with MadoHomu moments across the board