AnimeSuki Forums

CandyVanMan · 2007-06-02, 11:14

I admit, I'm 6-feet tall and creepy looking. I have a sick sense of humor and my family pegs me with pedo-jokes all the time. It's probably my (lack of) style, but I find it funny anyway. So I carry the label like a joke and those who know me see me as a harmless lunatic Anime fan. And, no, that's not my van, it's just part of the joke, I drive a Ram SRT...

I frequent one B&N almost every Friday and let the people behind the counter know it's because they didn't pull titles like another B&N I know. That was nearly three years ago. Now, I'm a regular there with the same routine; scan the Manga shelf, grab the new releases I want, give a quick 'howdy' to the staff, pay, and leave. They never treat me any different if I buy Fruits Basket, XXXHolic, or Yubisaki Milk Tea. They only see me once a week, but they care about my patronage. I'm frequently asked what I'm anticipating in new titles. We get along well.

There are times when my work schedule stretches and I show up after 4pm when the school crowd hits the mall. So one day I get there and start my scan... With about a dozen spoiled urchins lining the shelf reading Naruto or grouping around a Mahoromatic while giggling. (Where are the parents?) I don't always know what's new, so I scan all the titles I'm keeping up with. Nothing new, so I start walking out...

Only to be stopped by an atrocious soccer mom (oh, there's one) wondering why I "so blatantly went to the kids' book section to get my rocks off". I'm typically avoidant, so I say I'm here for the books but they don't have any new ones. She's all worked up, I want to leave, and one of the sales people show up. Needless to say, I'm NOT the one who was kicked out along with about a third of the urchins and I discovered some copies of Negima Vol.13 on the once-covered shelf. They got their money, I got my Maho-Sensei on, and one more psycho feels like she "protected the children".

If Kodomo No Jikan (Nymphette) ever gets published. I'm sure this place will stock it. If we weren't such a "ZoMG! SCARY PEOPLE BAD! DIFFERENT PEOPLE SCARY!" kind of society, I would have the book by now a would probably be screaming my head off with laughter. I'm a sucker for dirty jokes, my wife loves me for that.

...And, who says "get your rocks off" anymore? I'm sorry, it just stuck...

Vexx · 2007-06-02, 11:54

Good for you.... I'd have probably asked soccer-mom what kind of dirty mind-goblins SHE has. Seriously, the ones with the worst mind-goblins are the most idiotically righteous.

When I'm checking out the manga, I frequently get approached by young people who are just massively flipping happy that SOME ADULT understands them when they talk about the things they love. Why is that so god damned hard for parents to go halfway and actually take an interest in their child's activities? Oh noes, they might actually expand their horizons.

(rant, froth, argh, spittle...)

Darknemo2000 · 2007-06-02, 13:19

Well they mostly identify it as a cartoons - a thing that will surely pass away with an age. Howver, not all cartoons passaway with an age, more so about anime. But for them its something that should pass very soon so tahts why they do not take notice, unless something like "Kodomo No Jikan"appears and then parents begin with "ZOMG! Kill it with fire! It destroys our families, eats our children and degenerate our culture! ZOMG! Die! Die! Die!" or something like that.

Vexx · 2007-06-02, 14:01

I find the "parents think comics are for kids" meme fascinating... its like some sort of time stasis field.

Comics weren't really even "for kids" when I started reading Marvel back in the 1960s. It takes about 5 minutes of research to understand that anime and manga are read and made for all ages in Japan. WHO ARE THESE PARENTS? Its been 40-f*scking years since I was a kid.

Not a parent alive today wasn't a kid when comics stopped being "for kids" (not that they ever really were). Yet what Darknemo says is true --- so I can only assume they're all Pod People, yeah thats it.

Kaioshin Sama · 2007-06-02, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

I never read/cared about Kodomo no Jikan untilled I caught a whiff that something was amiss about it (still haven't read it, but I plan to), but from reading nearly this entire thread... I can't figure out for the life of me why Seven Seas didn't just sell the thing direct online. If the retailers got spooked, which is rediculous (like Vexx pointed out) because this appears to be the exact same thing as Lolita only now with over-the-top humor and pictures (and I can walk into B&N, pick that book up, and never get so much as a funny glance as I walk to the register. Heck, I got weird looks buying Yotsuba&! when it was still being released) then why not eliminate them? The internet is a medium for getting things out as well as shutting them down.

I used to find Answerman at least mildly amusing, but knowing that he made this big of a stink over something so rediculous when he could have been crusading against the extremely explicit BL series that keep paddling their way over here really makes me wonder. I'm a pretty conservative Christian type myself (don't get involved in politics, though), so it's interesting to see which moral issues get attention and which don't these days. Homosexuality is pretty heavily condemned in the Bible, but in the last ten or so years its become such that, if you find something wrong with it, there's actually something wrong with you. So now the target of people who like to raise a stink about such things is this paedophilia thing, with anyone who even glances at a kid a second too long being dragged out behind the barn and shot in the name of protecting our children. This is almost irrelevant here, since no real children are involved at all, and therefore there's no one to protect but the reader. Such people are afraid of one or all of these: That people will accidentally buy this for their eleven-year-old (these people should be forbidden to have children, not researching the kind of entertainment their children are exposed to - especially if they're that concerned about exposing them to things they consider harmful), that people with "special tastes" will get off on it and go out and grab themselves a real kid (like was mentioned before, they would have done it anyway with or without KnJ), or that this will convert otherwise normal people into paedophiles who will go out and try to snag the real thing. That last one is the only slightly legitimate excuse, and even it's pretty flimsy - especially considering that things like A Clockwork Orange have been popping up on highschool reading lists lately, which I think is far more disconcerting than a manga version of the very risque, but ultimately harmless, Lolita.

I'm sure even if was sold online, some Mother's Against Whatever group would find a way to make a stink about it. As for cancelling Kodomo No Jikan, Seven Seas better hope they can negotiate some sort of refund on the license (if that's even possible) or they are doing more damage to their small business operation then if they were to just release the product to the market, take some flack and make some profit.

As for AnswerMan, somehow I don't think he actually cares about what happens with KnJ, but picked a random hot button issue and example and is using it to propel himself into the spotlight, like a certain Anti-Video Game Lawyer. He kind of started off as as a Frasier Crane style friendly consultant, but ended up turning into a sensationalist columnist claiming to be an advice giver like Ann Landers. I still read his column, but I think sometimes he's doing more harm to the anime community than he claims lolicon will do if it enters the mainstream american anime/manga market.

MakubeX2 · 2007-06-02, 18:22

Perhaps all of you can judge whether the series deserve the flame it's been getting after all the inital chapters consisiting of Vol.1 along with the 2 pilots chapter that catapult it to fame has been translated and released

As of now, 5/7 of the Vol.1 Chapters and Part 1 of the pilot chapters is out. Part 2 of the pilot chapter is currently in progress of editing. Chapter 6's translation is done and Chapter 7's translation is getting along fine.

And just to make a point that I'm not just a guy banking on fame on the flame of the series, but seeking to spread the gospel :-

See ? I'm a fan and had been collecting everything related to the series. I have with me the original Japanese manga Tankōbon, with the Taiwan Chinese Edition along the figures.

Only thing missing is the 1/6 Rin (Pre-Ordered). And the monthly Comic High Issues. (Noy avaliable for subscribtion here,sadly)

grgspunk · 2007-06-02, 19:11

Here's the first five chapters for those who need to read from the start:

http://rapidshare.com/files/33627467...o_no_Jikan.rar

Jiji · 2007-06-03, 00:38

Dunno if this is new info to everyone or not, and keep in mind I got this from 4chan--hardly a "news source", but...

The author of Kodomo no Jikan

Watashiya Kaworu (私屋カヲル)

MakubeX2 · 2007-06-03, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ueda

Dunno if this is new info to everyone or not, and keep in mind I got this from 4chan--hardly a "news source", but...

The author of Kodomo no Jikan

Watashiya Kaworu (私屋カヲル)

That has already been pointed out :-

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...8&postcount=59

BOZZY · 2007-06-03, 01:08

Whoa... That's surprising... A woman wrote this? o.O

Vexx · 2007-06-03, 01:20

Actually, that's probably why it has such good characterization and story depth rather than just peekaboo trashy humor. She puts a lot of care into her creations from what I've seen.

I thought the author's gender was somewhat common knowledge considering the firestorm over this.

Kaioshin Sama · 2007-06-03, 02:28

I'm on Period 3 right now and thought I'd post a little on the first two:

Period 0:

Spoiler:

In this prototype chapter Aoki is already the teacher and starts the day by walking into the classroom only to have Rin fall on him in the classic panties to face manner (I can only assume she was perched on top of the door somehow). Rin says that Aoki's nose is bleeding because he saw her panties, but he says it was because she crushed his nose when she fell on him (His side sounds more believable). He then has the class right Haiku and Rin writes:

Please Do Stick It In
Before The Day Comes At Last
I start To Bleed Red

Frazzle Aoki asks for advice from the teachers and Hoin (Who is at this point Aoki's Wilson to his Tim Taylor) and she says he has to let her know that this is not okay for a little girl to be writing. On her way to drop of the attendance book Rin is confronted by the creepy ass principal who grabs her head and has one of those perverted grins on his face. She goes to tell Aoki about how the principal made her feel uncomfortable, but he just writes it off as another one of her tricks (Can you really blame him). Rin's screwball friend Kagami (who dresses like a victorian era noble) gives the finger and her bear doll seem's to be able to mimic her expression like Wade from Orson's Farms (The Garfield Cartoon Short) Innertube (which is just plain awesome). Anyway Rin starts to feel sick and goes to see the principal who promptly lays her out on the couch and tries to pull down her panties (PEDOPHILE!). Rin snaps a photo of him in the act and records his rant about how nobody will believe her. The principle is exposed and promptly forced to resign and Rin extorts a kiss from Aoki in return for forgiving him from not believing her.

Overall: I'm not to sure about the message here. Rin's solving of her own problems was impressive, but I think the author should have presented the idea that she is partially at fault for playing tricks and crying wolf and that is why Aoki didn't believe her, not because she is a kid. Sometimes I feel Rin get's off a bit to easy, but I guess it is part of the authors attempt to establish her dominance over Aoki, which Echo's Lolita's power over Humbert Humbert.

Period 0.5:

Spoiler:

The second prototype starts off with Rin eating in class and Aoki taking away the sandwich and admonishing her for breaking the rules. She turns the situation into a pun by saying Panchira (Literally "Panty Shot", but also a combination of "Bread" and "Taken") as revenge (Aoki seems unsettled). We learn that it is physical exam time and Kagami is outraged at this, claiming the girls are being prosituted. Rin is angry at Aoki for something regarding overhearing saying massaging ones breasts will make them look bigger and he replies that that doesn't work for a 9 year old. As revenge she shows him her non existant cleavage through the top of her dress and says she thought he liked big breasts. When he says no Hoin walks in at the same moment and he has to defend his words while the devious Kagami looks on in amusement. Later it is mentioned that Mimi was the first girl to wear a bra (establishing this prototype as outside the continuity of the manga as Mimi gets the bra in Period 3). Apparently Kagami has lodged a formal complaint about why chest measurements are so important (she's just bitter that she has absolutely nothing). The answer is that it gives teachers the chance to check for abuse. Flash forward to Rin walking in on Mimi examining a cut on her chest. Rin being the concerned friend she is demands to know who did this and Mimi begs her to keep it under wraps. Later Rin tries to talk the girls way out of having to be examined (to protect Mimi), but Aoki says he's not the one doing it (obviously) and that its Hoin and he doesn't want to see her topless anyway. As revenge (she's really good at this) she says she's not wearing any panties and starts to pull up her skirt (I should also mention she has one of the most evil and devious looking faces I've ever seen on a loli character during this part. She looks borderline super villain. Like we are talking demented eyes, callous expression, emotionless seeming voice, upward angle to make her look ten times more creepy etc.). Aoki pulls it back down and Rin snaps out of it. During lunch Rin discovers Mimi's bloody razor blade and finds out she cut herself because of the pressure from everybody to do well in school and it was a once off thing that got infected and caused it to swell so she's embarassed about it (and a bit emo). Kagami who is now wearing some sort of Succubus outfit says she wants to make Rin's area swell (She has a crush on Rin). During the exam Kagami is measured to have 51 centimeters which annoys her and Rin has 55, making her happy that she grew. When it's Mimis turn apparently she has gone to lengths to conceal her cut and everything passes (including her chest size being announced). Hoin says Mimi is a good girl which makes her happy and she seems less emo now (and probably won't cut herself). Meanwhile Kagami is on a power trip (finger pointing, angry look, cocky pose and everything) and demands that Hoin get a physical as well. When she does Aoki walks in on the girls (the measuring tape barely fits around her chest) and is called a pervert.

Overall: Poor Mimi, she always seems to be going through a lot of trouble and facing the worst of lifes pressures at such a young age. I guess the message here is that the girls should solve there own problems between themselves and that is why Rin protected Mimi from even worse scrutiny and pressure should she be discovered and embarassed for cutting herself. Rin is established as a possible demon and Kagami seems to have multiple cute outfits and a huge ego. Mimi is also established as the Mikuru of the group and Hoin as a nice teacher. I think this was probably the chapter that earned Kodomo No Jikan it's publishing contract.

Period 1:

Spoiler:

Period 2:

Spoiler:

Rin continues to torment Aoki by playing a trick on him where she lifts says she is lifting up her skirt and sure enough when Aoki turns around she is standing there with her skirt lifted up exposing her midriff and buruma. Apparently she made a bet with the other girls that Aoki would be tempted and turn around to look, and Mimi is on the losing end and very disappointed with Aoki. Aoki demands that she give Mimi her money back since gambling isn't allowed in school and when he kneels down and puts her hands on her shoulders she just sticks out her tongue and exclaims "Idiot". She then runs out of the room and Aoki goes to chase her but falls on the other teacher, who also has enormous breasts that cushion his fall. She says in the staff room that Aoki should earn Rin's trust be being like a big brother and when Aoki finds Rin outside with a cat that shouldn't be allowed on the premises, he decides to let it slide and even get's bitten by the cat. Rin sucks on his bleeding finger and Aoki appears very much visibly turned on. Rin's friend Kagami (I kid not, I guess that makes Rin into Konata then) seems upset as she watches from an upper story school window. Later when the female teacher Hoin (the one with the large breasts) ask Aoki to accompany her to lunch, Kagami runs up looking frantic and tells Aoki that the cat climbed up into a tree and that Rin has gone up after it. From the tree Rin exclaims that she want's to show the stray cat that has been neglected that nice people do exist in the world and as she reaches out to grab the cat, she slips and Aoki catches breaks her fall as she lands on top of him. He is completely KO'd and appears to fantasize a dancing image of a naked Rin as he lies unconcious. The next day Aoki is better and Rin tries to play the skirt lift trick on him again, but he knows better and doesn't fall for it.

Overall: Aoki is absolutely no match for Rin whatsoever. She has complete control of the situation at all times and he's just got to try and keep his sanity and try to resist her as best he can. Although Rin can seem overbearing we see a very caring and compassionate side to her hear in this chapter. The absolute most sexualized the chapter gets is when the unconcious Aoki fantasizes about a naked Rin, yet we don't see anything.

Honestly I've seen more lolicon moments in Negima with Evangeline and the twins. The only complaint about the manga I have is that the storytelling is a fair bit disjointed, sometimes appearing to inexplicably jump ahead in the course of events from panel to panel on the same page.

FatPianoBoy · 2007-06-03, 02:50

I've just completed the first volume.

Now I'm really, really upset about this. Before I was just irritated, but now I'm beginning to feel like Kaioshin what with these notions of conspiracy theories forming in my head.

Spoiler for safety:

It's very obvious that most of the people who lobbied gainst this never saw anything besides Rin's pantsu blackmail and that infamous "Nakadashi Kibou" panel. The few who did bother to read the thing paid no attention to the foreshadowing of Rin's past (did no one besides the teacher wonder how she knows about this stuff?), Aoki reaching out to Mimi and simultaneously exercising discretion and showing concern for her other plight by recruiting Rin to help her, and Aoki visibly struggling with trying to tell Rin he cares about her in a way that she won't perceive it as a take-me-now signal, and ultimately the slightly odd relationship between Rin and her father(?) (yes, I'm aware that it's not weird to bathe with your kids at that age in Japan, but something felt off).
I'll concede that it's easy to miss the story if you're not willing to look for it - especially since this volume is just setting the stage for everything that's going to go down later - and very easy to blow off if you're trying to "think of the children."
And this is where the conspiracy theories start congealing: what we see here is a very precocious child who is trying very hard to entrap this older man for reasons that are not quite clear yet. I think what's got so many people lighting the torches may have something to do with one or more of the following:

The child is implied to be at fault for being so darn yummy that the older men cannot control themselves any longer

Pedos are just regular people whose intentions are misunderstood (or: Cradle robbers are people, too)

If they inferred the worst, most culturally ignorant conclusion possible from that last bit: Molestation does not harm the child psychologically, but instead creates a stronger bond

Of course, in order to form these kinds of arguments, one would have had to have been paying attention, in which case one would have noticed that there's a story here; if this were just pr0n, Aoki would have crumbled by the second chapter. If you noticed the story, any reasoning person would at least hold off judgement until they came to see just what that story was.

Therefore, the only people who would get worked up about this whilst still being insightful are likely to have some sort of political agenda (*cough*Jack Thompson*cough*) or have been brainwashed by the media into thinking that any man who shows a fondness for a child that is not related to them (or shows a strong attachment to one that is) must be plotting all sorts of sneaky dealings in the shadows - yes, CandyVanMan's story made me want to cry, fear for for humanity, and kill something all at once. I won't even bother getting into my 'most people who are attracted to children don't touch them' spiel, since the material in question isn't lolicon and would drive us way off topic and probably ignite a violent flame war.

If you're still around after all that rambling, I'll conclude by saying this: seeing this title burned at the stake (this was a textbook case if a witchhunt if I ever saw one) only further proves the ignorance of the many, their susceptibility to suggestion by sensationalist syndicated programming in disguise the media, and the few shameless enough to exploit these traits to further their popularity and/or career. Just the fact that something like this was written by a woman should be enough to make people stop, squint, and start digging for more information. I could go on for pages, but no one would read, and so there would be no point, so I'll stop there.

Vexx · 2007-06-03, 03:06

I was beginning to feel a bit lonely on a few forums because most people were too busy adding gasoline to the pyre .... glad to see those posts.

You know, these books could contain absolute garbage and I'd still defend their right to exist. But this series was completely and unjustly martyred and thrown to the flames of the mob. Couple that with the waves of anti-intellectualism and critical thinking failures in other areas of my society and I get the sense I'm in some wierd vertical channel version of a Dark Age.

Many thanks to the ad-hoc scanlators for all the hard work.

GammaRed · 2007-06-03, 03:09

You know, I cant help but beleave, that dispite the fact that on this forum at least, KNJ's author is female is commen knolige. But I doubt that other boards have this information.

And it might make some ppl think difrently about the series, if not a compleat mindset change

Today I watched An anime that I could not beleave made it under the raydar to be released in the US

Hanaukyo Maid Team: La Verite, in witch a Minor child, in this case a boy, is being waited on hand and foot by SEVRAL Vixens. With sexual baltency and nudity abound.

Its so shamefull that this group of players have ruined KNJ (nymphet) launch for everyone else.

Anyway, is there any news about wot SSE is going to do with the KNJ (Nymphet) Liecence? I really want to know wots gunna happen with it!

Kaioshin Sama · 2007-06-03, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

I was beginning to feel a bit lonely on a few forums because most people were too busy adding gasoline to the pyre .... glad to see those posts.

You know, these books could contain absolute garbage and I'd still defend their right to exist. But this series was completely and unjustly martyred and thrown to the flames of the mob. Couple that with the waves of anti-intellectualism and critical thinking failures in other areas of my society and I get the sense I'm in some wierd vertical channel version of a Dark Age.

Many thanks to the ad-hoc scanlators for all the hard work.

I've honestly had the feeling that we have been in a second dark age since the turn of the millenium. People just seem to be far to lazy to think anymore and well, might I recommend a movie by Mike Judge called Idiocracy which basically summarizes my worst fears for the future of humanity if things aren't done to fix the wests schools and encourage open mindness and new ideas.

They almost made a sport of rending Kodomo No Jikan didn't they. It's almost like it was attacked because the opportunity was there to do so. It's possible that if Jason DeAngelis hadn't released that letter and brought the opportunity for controversy (probably not a lot of people had heard about it or were worried before that), that everything would have been fine, but by doing so he created the avenue of attack and eventually seppukued the localization himself.

Speaking of conspiracy theories I'm starting to wonder if he may have been trying to find a way out of having to do the project he committed Seven Seas to for one reason or another as the whole letter thing was a boneheaded manuever and the follow-up in the context of his plans was instantaneous. Just a crazy thought.

Anyway expect more chapter summaries and thoughts from me tomorrow hopefully.

Vexx · 2007-06-03, 03:34

Actually... some of the folks instigating knew perfectly well the author was female. The others were too busy protesting to think about it. And quite a number of anime/manga "experts" didn't bother to check before spouting off.

Some of those folks were crusading because they feared that "any hint of underage sexual behavior" would bring wrath upon on the industry. The problem with that theory is that it is wrong -- its already too late: the ammo for that is already on the shelves. I hate to ruin their morning coffee but a righteous idiot could walk up to any manga shelf, pick a book at random ---- flip through it... and they're going to see pictures of what might be perceived as underage girls in compromising positions. (Gunslinger Girls, Negima, I"s, Chobits, and on and on). Many of the covers make it pretty obvious as well.

Okay.. calming down (I'm supposed to avoid stress for a while... getting a systems check for some chest pains the other week, stupid mortality).

Edit: on deAngelis ... I think he knows how to run his business ..... but I don't think he showed the skillset to frame things properly to his audience (i.e. distributors) (I speculate freely that they scampered mostly because of the way he presented the situation).

Though his first press release was on-target, his second letter, well, went seriously awry. By specifying specific pages as some moral rationale for the cancellation, he opened himself to the charge he hadn't actually *read* the book --- that he'd only flipped through to find some pages that gave the appearance of the being over the line. His ploy only works until one *reads* the section and discovers just how offchannel he is. He really should have simply said the distributors ran like rabbits. Then the worst he could have been accused of was presenting the situation ineptly. Then he really tripped by saying anyone who disagreed with him obviously hadn't read the later volumes or "didn't understand japanese". That was a immediate fail because the people who supported the books were precisely the ones who HAD read all the story (in the original language).

<shrug> at this point, SSE is out of the picture, no point in beating a dead horse (other than to get the license away from them). The only thing left to hear from either them or the publisher Futabasha is that the license has been revoked or lost. At this point, a LOT more people are going to get to read it for free (there are 4 or 5 groups scanlating it that I've spotted) and a lot more people are going to be scratching their heads and wondering wtf the bookburners were so terrified of. Sadly, it also means the author and her publisher will get less money for it. Send her flowers or paypal her maybe?

I noticed the wikipedia entry on Kodomo no Jikan has a pretty accurate report oddly enough (though it is missing much of the details).

PS: Idiocracy sounds hilarious and tragic (like a Futurama barbed satire).... Looks like it was set too far into the future though.

bleakessence · 2007-06-03, 05:56

*still stalking this thread*

@Vexx
well... the supposed "underage sex content" in the manga's you mentioned weren't the explicit highlight of the series, unlike KnJ. The synopsis of the series is what probably made the flamers turn their torches on this little number.

But honestly, all I see is a little kid who has a problem with her sexuality and a teacher who's trying his best (i think...) to cling to his ethics both as a teacher and a mature adult. The conflicts produced by this unique interaction becomes the meat of the story... child-sex or pedophilia is NOT the central focus of the manga.

It's this sexual immaturity that disappoints me. This manga isn't even pornographic or anything... it just provides a situation wherein we can ponder upon the ethical and moral standards of society; Japanese, American or otherwise.

MakubeX2 · 2007-06-03, 06:06

It might be interesting to note that while the west cringe fear at this title, some otakus in the East express dismay that, as the series progress, the girls in there arn't behaving as how their ideal lolitas should.

bleakessence · 2007-06-03, 06:19

@Makubex2
err... according to the otakus, how should ideal lolitas behave then? o_O;
(but it's a seriously weird feeling when you know it's a woman who conceptualized the characters... i was half-expecting that only a guy would think up such an "interesting" plot XD)

2007-06-02, 11:54	Link #122
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Good for you.... I'd have probably asked soccer-mom what kind of dirty mind-goblins SHE has. Seriously, the ones with the worst mind-goblins are the most idiotically righteous. When I'm checking out the manga, I frequently get approached by young people who are just massively flipping happy that SOME ADULT understands them when they talk about the things they love. Why is that so god damned hard for parents to go halfway and actually take an interest in their child's activities? Oh noes, they might actually expand their horizons. (rant, froth, argh, spittle...) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-06-02, 14:01	Link #124
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I find the "parents think comics are for kids" meme fascinating... its like some sort of time stasis field. Comics weren't really even "for kids" when I started reading Marvel back in the 1960s. It takes about 5 minutes of research to understand that anime and manga are read and made for all ages in Japan. WHO ARE THESE PARENTS? Its been 40-fscking years since I was a kid. Not a parent alive today wasn't a kid when comics stopped being "for kids" (not that they ever really were). Yet what Darknemo says is true --- so I can only assume they're all Pod People, yeah thats it. __________________ "It Really IS* Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-06-03, 01:20	Link #131
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Actually, that's probably why it has such good characterization and story depth rather than just peekaboo trashy humor. She puts a lot of care into her creations from what I've seen. I thought the author's gender was somewhat common knowledge considering the firestorm over this. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-06-03, 02:28	Link #132
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 39	I'm on Period 3 right now and thought I'd post a little on the first two: Period 0: Spoiler: In this prototype chapter Aoki is already the teacher and starts the day by walking into the classroom only to have Rin fall on him in the classic panties to face manner (I can only assume she was perched on top of the door somehow). Rin says that Aoki's nose is bleeding because he saw her panties, but he says it was because she crushed his nose when she fell on him (His side sounds more believable). He then has the class right Haiku and Rin writes: Please Do Stick It In Before The Day Comes At Last I start To Bleed Red Frazzle Aoki asks for advice from the teachers and Hoin (Who is at this point Aoki's Wilson to his Tim Taylor) and she says he has to let her know that this is not okay for a little girl to be writing. On her way to drop of the attendance book Rin is confronted by the creepy ass principal who grabs her head and has one of those perverted grins on his face. She goes to tell Aoki about how the principal made her feel uncomfortable, but he just writes it off as another one of her tricks (Can you really blame him). Rin's screwball friend Kagami (who dresses like a victorian era noble) gives the finger and her bear doll seem's to be able to mimic her expression like Wade from Orson's Farms (The Garfield Cartoon Short) Innertube (which is just plain awesome). Anyway Rin starts to feel sick and goes to see the principal who promptly lays her out on the couch and tries to pull down her panties (PEDOPHILE!). Rin snaps a photo of him in the act and records his rant about how nobody will believe her. The principle is exposed and promptly forced to resign and Rin extorts a kiss from Aoki in return for forgiving him from not believing her. Overall: I'm not to sure about the message here. Rin's solving of her own problems was impressive, but I think the author should have presented the idea that she is partially at fault for playing tricks and crying wolf and that is why Aoki didn't believe her, not because she is a kid. Sometimes I feel Rin get's off a bit to easy, but I guess it is part of the authors attempt to establish her dominance over Aoki, which Echo's Lolita's power over Humbert Humbert. Period 0.5: Spoiler: The second prototype starts off with Rin eating in class and Aoki taking away the sandwich and admonishing her for breaking the rules. She turns the situation into a pun by saying Panchira (Literally "Panty Shot", but also a combination of "Bread" and "Taken") as revenge (Aoki seems unsettled). We learn that it is physical exam time and Kagami is outraged at this, claiming the girls are being prosituted. Rin is angry at Aoki for something regarding overhearing saying massaging ones breasts will make them look bigger and he replies that that doesn't work for a 9 year old. As revenge she shows him her non existant cleavage through the top of her dress and says she thought he liked big breasts. When he says no Hoin walks in at the same moment and he has to defend his words while the devious Kagami looks on in amusement. Later it is mentioned that Mimi was the first girl to wear a bra (establishing this prototype as outside the continuity of the manga as Mimi gets the bra in Period 3). Apparently Kagami has lodged a formal complaint about why chest measurements are so important (she's just bitter that she has absolutely nothing). The answer is that it gives teachers the chance to check for abuse. Flash forward to Rin walking in on Mimi examining a cut on her chest. Rin being the concerned friend she is demands to know who did this and Mimi begs her to keep it under wraps. Later Rin tries to talk the girls way out of having to be examined (to protect Mimi), but Aoki says he's not the one doing it (obviously) and that its Hoin and he doesn't want to see her topless anyway. As revenge (she's really good at this) she says she's not wearing any panties and starts to pull up her skirt (I should also mention she has one of the most evil and devious looking faces I've ever seen on a loli character during this part. She looks borderline super villain. Like we are talking demented eyes, callous expression, emotionless seeming voice, upward angle to make her look ten times more creepy etc.). Aoki pulls it back down and Rin snaps out of it. During lunch Rin discovers Mimi's bloody razor blade and finds out she cut herself because of the pressure from everybody to do well in school and it was a once off thing that got infected and caused it to swell so she's embarassed about it (and a bit emo). Kagami who is now wearing some sort of Succubus outfit says she wants to make Rin's area swell (She has a crush on Rin). During the exam Kagami is measured to have 51 centimeters which annoys her and Rin has 55, making her happy that she grew. When it's Mimis turn apparently she has gone to lengths to conceal her cut and everything passes (including her chest size being announced). Hoin says Mimi is a good girl which makes her happy and she seems less emo now (and probably won't cut herself). Meanwhile Kagami is on a power trip (finger pointing, angry look, cocky pose and everything) and demands that Hoin get a physical as well. When she does Aoki walks in on the girls (the measuring tape barely fits around her chest) and is called a pervert. Overall: Poor Mimi, she always seems to be going through a lot of trouble and facing the worst of lifes pressures at such a young age. I guess the message here is that the girls should solve there own problems between themselves and that is why Rin protected Mimi from even worse scrutiny and pressure should she be discovered and embarassed for cutting herself. Rin is established as a possible demon and Kagami seems to have multiple cute outfits and a huge ego. Mimi is also established as the Mikuru of the group and Hoin as a nice teacher. I think this was probably the chapter that earned Kodomo No Jikan it's publishing contract. Period 1: Spoiler: Aoki is starting his first day as a teacher at the elementary school and is immediately traumatized by Rin who is wearing nothing but bear panties when he walks into the class room. Apparently the teacher they had before was really nasty to a girl named Mimi (Who bears a significant resemblance to Miyuki from Lucky Star) and she hasn't been attending school. As a result Rin is initial very cool with Aoki and immediately establishes dominance over him with her easy ability to pull down her panties and threaten to blow the virtual rape whistle. When Aoki finds out the truth about Mimi he goes to her house and establishes a report with her. The next day Mimi is back at school and Rin seem's to have warmed to Aoki a bit after realizing his part in helping her friend gain the confidence to come back to school. Overall it's a nice little story. Poor Mimi seemed really traumatized by the things the teacher said and frankly this guy made the right decision in retiring and seek mental guidence because he has no business teaching. I couldn't find anything really objectionable at all here. The most sexual it gets is when we see Rin in her Bear Panties. Also even though she pulls down her panties she still has a skirt on so nobody see's anything but the panties around her legs. Frankly I've seen Ken Akamatsu gets more lolicon with the battle outfit and outright nudity that Evangeline A.K McAdowell exhibits. Period 2: Spoiler: Rin continues to torment Aoki by playing a trick on him where she lifts says she is lifting up her skirt and sure enough when Aoki turns around she is standing there with her skirt lifted up exposing her midriff and buruma. Apparently she made a bet with the other girls that Aoki would be tempted and turn around to look, and Mimi is on the losing end and very disappointed with Aoki. Aoki demands that she give Mimi her money back since gambling isn't allowed in school and when he kneels down and puts her hands on her shoulders she just sticks out her tongue and exclaims "Idiot". She then runs out of the room and Aoki goes to chase her but falls on the other teacher, who also has enormous breasts that cushion his fall. She says in the staff room that Aoki should earn Rin's trust be being like a big brother and when Aoki finds Rin outside with a cat that shouldn't be allowed on the premises, he decides to let it slide and even get's bitten by the cat. Rin sucks on his bleeding finger and Aoki appears very much visibly turned on. Rin's friend Kagami (I kid not, I guess that makes Rin into Konata then) seems upset as she watches from an upper story school window. Later when the female teacher Hoin (the one with the large breasts) ask Aoki to accompany her to lunch, Kagami runs up looking frantic and tells Aoki that the cat climbed up into a tree and that Rin has gone up after it. From the tree Rin exclaims that she want's to show the stray cat that has been neglected that nice people do exist in the world and as she reaches out to grab the cat, she slips and Aoki catches breaks her fall as she lands on top of him. He is completely KO'd and appears to fantasize a dancing image of a naked Rin as he lies unconcious. The next day Aoki is better and Rin tries to play the skirt lift trick on him again, but he knows better and doesn't fall for it. Overall: Aoki is absolutely no match for Rin whatsoever. She has complete control of the situation at all times and he's just got to try and keep his sanity and try to resist her as best he can. Although Rin can seem overbearing we see a very caring and compassionate side to her hear in this chapter. The absolute most sexualized the chapter gets is when the unconcious Aoki fantasizes about a naked Rin, yet we don't see anything. Honestly I've seen more lolicon moments in Negima with Evangeline and the twins. The only complaint about the manga I have is that the storytelling is a fair bit disjointed, sometimes appearing to inexplicably jump ahead in the course of events from panel to panel on the same page. Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-06-04 at 11:55.

2007-06-03, 02:50	Link #133
FatPianoBoy Dansa med oss Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky Age: 36	I've just completed the first volume. Now I'm really, really upset about this. Before I was just irritated, but now I'm beginning to feel like Kaioshin what with these notions of conspiracy theories forming in my head. Spoiler for safety: It's very obvious that most of the people who lobbied gainst this never saw anything besides Rin's pantsu blackmail and that infamous "Nakadashi Kibou" panel. The few who did bother to read the thing paid no attention to the foreshadowing of Rin's past (did no one besides the teacher wonder how she knows about this stuff?), Aoki reaching out to Mimi and simultaneously exercising discretion and showing concern for her other plight by recruiting Rin to help her, and Aoki visibly struggling with trying to tell Rin he cares about her in a way that she won't perceive it as a take-me-now signal, and ultimately the slightly odd relationship between Rin and her father(?) (yes, I'm aware that it's not weird to bathe with your kids at that age in Japan, but something felt off). I'll concede that it's easy to miss the story if you're not willing to look for it - especially since this volume is just setting the stage for everything that's going to go down later - and very easy to blow off if you're trying to "think of the children." And this is where the conspiracy theories start congealing: what we see here is a very precocious child who is trying very hard to entrap this older man for reasons that are not quite clear yet. I think what's got so many people lighting the torches may have something to do with one or more of the following: The child is implied to be at fault for being so darn yummy that the older men cannot control themselves any longer Pedos are just regular people whose intentions are misunderstood (or: Cradle robbers are people, too) If they inferred the worst, most culturally ignorant conclusion possible from that last bit: Molestation does not harm the child psychologically, but instead creates a stronger bond Of course, in order to form these kinds of arguments, one would have had to have been paying attention, in which case one would have noticed that there's a story here; if this were just pr0n, Aoki would have crumbled by the second chapter. If you noticed the story, any reasoning person would at least hold off judgement until they came to see just what that story was. Therefore, the only people who would get worked up about this whilst still being insightful are likely to have some sort of political agenda (coughJack Thompsoncough) or have been brainwashed by the media into thinking that any man who shows a fondness for a child that is not related to them (or shows a strong attachment to one that is) must be plotting all sorts of sneaky dealings in the shadows - yes, CandyVanMan's story made me want to cry, fear for for humanity, and kill something all at once. I won't even bother getting into my 'most people who are attracted to children don't touch them' spiel, since the material in question isn't lolicon and would drive us way off topic and probably ignite a violent flame war. If you're still around after all that rambling, I'll conclude by saying this: seeing this title burned at the stake (this was a textbook case if a witchhunt if I ever saw one) only further proves the ignorance of the many, their susceptibility to suggestion by sensationalist syndicated programming in disguise the media, and the few shameless enough to exploit these traits to further their popularity and/or career. Just the fact that something like this was written by a woman should be enough to make people stop, squint, and start digging for more information. I could go on for pages, but no one would read, and so there would be no point, so I'll stop there.

2007-06-02, 11:14	Link #121
CandyVanMan Part Time Hikikomori Join Date: May 2007 Location: In the state of a deep trance Age: 46	I admit, I'm 6-feet tall and creepy looking. I have a sick sense of humor and my family pegs me with pedo-jokes all the time. It's probably my (lack of) style, but I find it funny anyway. So I carry the label like a joke and those who know me see me as a harmless lunatic Anime fan. And, no, that's not my van, it's just part of the joke, I drive a Ram SRT... I frequent one B&N almost every Friday and let the people behind the counter know it's because they didn't pull titles like another B&N I know. That was nearly three years ago. Now, I'm a regular there with the same routine; scan the Manga shelf, grab the new releases I want, give a quick 'howdy' to the staff, pay, and leave. They never treat me any different if I buy Fruits Basket, XXXHolic, or Yubisaki Milk Tea. They only see me once a week, but they care about my patronage. I'm frequently asked what I'm anticipating in new titles. We get along well. There are times when my work schedule stretches and I show up after 4pm when the school crowd hits the mall. So one day I get there and start my scan... With about a dozen spoiled urchins lining the shelf reading Naruto or grouping around a Mahoromatic while giggling. (Where are the parents?) I don't always know what's new, so I scan all the titles I'm keeping up with. Nothing new, so I start walking out... Only to be stopped by an atrocious soccer mom (oh, there's one) wondering why I "so blatantly went to the kids' book section to get my rocks off". I'm typically avoidant, so I say I'm here for the books but they don't have any new ones. She's all worked up, I want to leave, and one of the sales people show up. Needless to say, I'm NOT the one who was kicked out along with about a third of the urchins and I discovered some copies of Negima Vol.13 on the once-covered shelf. They got their money, I got my Maho-Sensei on, and one more psycho feels like she "protected the children". If Kodomo No Jikan (Nymphette) ever gets published. I'm sure this place will stock it. If we weren't such a "ZoMG! SCARY PEOPLE BAD! DIFFERENT PEOPLE SCARY!" kind of society, I would have the book by now a would probably be screaming my head off with laughter. I'm a sucker for dirty jokes, my wife loves me for that. ...And, who says "get your rocks off" anymore? I'm sorry, it just stuck...

2007-06-02, 13:19	Link #123
Darknemo2000 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lithuania Age: 39	Well they mostly identify it as a cartoons - a thing that will surely pass away with an age. Howver, not all cartoons passaway with an age, more so about anime. But for them its something that should pass very soon so tahts why they do not take notice, unless something like "Kodomo No Jikan"appears and then parents begin with "ZOMG! Kill it with fire! It destroys our families, eats our children and degenerate our culture! ZOMG! Die! Die! Die!" or something like that.

2007-06-02, 18:22	Link #126
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	Perhaps all of you can judge whether the series deserve the flame it's been getting after all the inital chapters consisiting of Vol.1 along with the 2 pilots chapter that catapult it to fame has been translated and released As of now, 5/7 of the Vol.1 Chapters and Part 1 of the pilot chapters is out. Part 2 of the pilot chapter is currently in progress of editing. Chapter 6's translation is done and Chapter 7's translation is getting along fine. And just to make a point that I'm not just a guy banking on fame on the flame of the series, but seeking to spread the gospel :- See ? I'm a fan and had been collecting everything related to the series. I have with me the original Japanese manga Tankōbon, with the Taiwan Chinese Edition along the figures. Only thing missing is the 1/6 Rin (Pre-Ordered). And the monthly Comic High Issues. (Noy avaliable for subscribtion here,sadly)

2007-06-02, 19:11	Link #127
grgspunk Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Here's the first five chapters for those who need to read from the start: http://rapidshare.com/files/33627467...o_no_Jikan.rar

2007-06-03, 00:38	Link #128
Jiji Senior Member Scanlator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Albuquerque Age: 58	Dunno if this is new info to everyone or not, and keep in mind I got this from 4chan--hardly a "news source", but... The author of Kodomo no Jikan Watashiya Kaworu (私屋カヲル)

2007-06-03, 01:08	Link #130
BOZZY Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Whoa... That's surprising... A woman wrote this? o.O

2007-06-03, 03:06	Link #134
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I was beginning to feel a bit lonely on a few forums because most people were too busy adding gasoline to the pyre .... glad to see those posts. You know, these books could contain absolute garbage and I'd still defend their right to exist. But this series was completely and unjustly martyred and thrown to the flames of the mob. Couple that with the waves of anti-intellectualism and critical thinking failures in other areas of my society and I get the sense I'm in some wierd vertical channel version of a Dark Age. Many thanks to the ad-hoc scanlators for all the hard work. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-06-03, 03:09	Link #135
GammaRed Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 47	You know, I cant help but beleave, that dispite the fact that on this forum at least, KNJ's author is female is commen knolige. But I doubt that other boards have this information. And it might make some ppl think difrently about the series, if not a compleat mindset change Today I watched An anime that I could not beleave made it under the raydar to be released in the US Hanaukyo Maid Team: La Verite, in witch a Minor child, in this case a boy, is being waited on hand and foot by SEVRAL Vixens. With sexual baltency and nudity abound. Its so shamefull that this group of players have ruined KNJ (nymphet) launch for everyone else. Anyway, is there any news about wot SSE is going to do with the KNJ (Nymphet) Liecence? I really want to know wots gunna happen with it!

2007-06-03, 03:34	Link #137
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Actually... some of the folks instigating knew perfectly well the author was female. The others were too busy protesting to think about it. And quite a number of anime/manga "experts" didn't bother to check before spouting off. Some of those folks were crusading because they feared that "any hint of underage sexual behavior" would bring wrath upon on the industry. The problem with that theory is that it is wrong -- its already too late: the ammo for that is already on the shelves. I hate to ruin their morning coffee but a righteous idiot could walk up to any manga shelf, pick a book at random ---- flip through it... and they're going to see pictures of what might be perceived as underage girls in compromising positions. (Gunslinger Girls, Negima, I"s, Chobits, and on and on). Many of the covers make it pretty obvious as well. Okay.. calming down (I'm supposed to avoid stress for a while... getting a systems check for some chest pains the other week, stupid mortality). Edit: on deAngelis ... I think he knows how to run his business ..... but I don't think he showed the skillset to frame things properly to his audience (i.e. distributors) (I speculate freely that they scampered mostly because of the way he presented the situation). Though his first press release was on-target, his second letter, well, went seriously awry. By specifying specific pages as some moral rationale for the cancellation, he opened himself to the charge he hadn't actually read the book --- that he'd only flipped through to find some pages that gave the appearance of the being over the line. His ploy only works until one reads the section and discovers just how offchannel he is. He really should have simply said the distributors ran like rabbits. Then the worst he could have been accused of was presenting the situation ineptly. Then he really tripped by saying anyone who disagreed with him obviously hadn't read the later volumes or "didn't understand japanese". That was a immediate fail because the people who supported the books were precisely the ones who HAD read all the story (in the original language). <shrug> at this point, SSE is out of the picture, no point in beating a dead horse (other than to get the license away from them). The only thing left to hear from either them or the publisher Futabasha is that the license has been revoked or lost. At this point, a LOT more people are going to get to read it for free (there are 4 or 5 groups scanlating it that I've spotted) and a lot more people are going to be scratching their heads and wondering wtf the bookburners were so terrified of. Sadly, it also means the author and her publisher will get less money for it. Send her flowers or paypal her maybe? I noticed the wikipedia entry on Kodomo no Jikan has a pretty accurate report oddly enough (though it is missing much of the details). PS: Idiocracy sounds hilarious and tragic (like a Futurama barbed satire).... Looks like it was set too far into the future though. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories! Last edited by Vexx; 2007-06-12 at 12:21.

2007-06-03, 05:56	Link #138
bleakessence Member Join Date: May 2007	still stalking this thread @Vexx well... the supposed "underage sex content" in the manga's you mentioned weren't the explicit highlight of the series, unlike KnJ. The synopsis of the series is what probably made the flamers turn their torches on this little number. But honestly, all I see is a little kid who has a problem with her sexuality and a teacher who's trying his best (i think...) to cling to his ethics both as a teacher and a mature adult. The conflicts produced by this unique interaction becomes the meat of the story... child-sex or pedophilia is NOT the central focus of the manga. It's this sexual immaturity that disappoints me. This manga isn't even pornographic or anything... it just provides a situation wherein we can ponder upon the ethical and moral standards of society; Japanese, American or otherwise.

2007-06-03, 06:06	Link #139
MakubeX2 うるとらぺど Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 44	It might be interesting to note that while the west cringe fear at this title, some otakus in the East express dismay that, as the series progress, the girls in there arn't behaving as how their ideal lolitas should.

2007-06-03, 06:19	Link #140
bleakessence Member Join Date: May 2007	@Makubex2 err... according to the otakus, how should ideal lolitas behave then? o_O; (but it's a seriously weird feeling when you know it's a woman who conceptualized the characters... i was half-expecting that only a guy would think up such an "interesting" plot XD)