The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 12]

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

It's not all bad, but I do wish that the art consistency could be maintained. For example, in this episodes, there were parts that were very VERY close to the 2006 airing in terms of style, then in the next scene they change back to the newer KyoAni style.

Par for the course. The way Kyoani seems to operate now is they'll have their new "K-On" style of animation which is overall less detailed except for the odd animation cut that uses a more detailed style reminiscent of what they used to do back in 2006. Usually the old style stuff seems to get used for fanservice/ultra-moe scenes or scenes that are pivotal to whatever is going on in the arc as a whole. The ones they want to stick in your mind the most).

Honestly I too would rather they just pick one style and stick with it. If that's the new style then so be it, it's probably for the best anyway and it really doesn't look all that bad at all, it's just not the best there is out there and nobody ever said they had to be the best.....okay well they did but you get what I'm saying right? I am however loving the decrease in Abramsesque lense flare abuse. Best idea they've had in a good while. There I'll give them some credit for that. Good boy Kyoani, have a treat.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Par for the course. The way Kyoani seems to operate now is they'll have their new "K-On" style of animation which is overall less detailed except for the odd animation cut that uses a more detailed style reminiscent of what they used to do back in 2006. Usually the old style stuff seems to get used for fanservice/ultra-moe scenes or scenes that are pivotal to whatever is going on in the arc as a whole. The ones they want to stick in your mind the most).

Honestly I too would rather they just pick one style and stick with it. If that's the new style then so be it, it's probably for the best anyway and it really doesn't look all that bad at all, it's just not the best there is out there and nobody ever said they had to be the best.....okay well they did but you get what I'm saying right?

I disagree with you here. Many people see a mix between newer style and classic Haruhi style with this latest episode... and I really don't. This latest episode is pretty much classic 2006 Haruhi with the exception of lost of line definition from time-to-time. This is the classic style, and I'm very happy to see it back.

For anybody who thinks that episode 12 still has a lot of the newer style in it... can you pick out a scene or two in the episode where it stands out to you? Because... I'm not seeing it. Not at all.


In any event, if this is a mix between newer style and classic Haruhi style, I'll take this any day over the newer style alone. It's far far better than the newer style alone, as it pertains to what suits this anime.

Also, Kaioshin... why do you think it would be "for the best" to go exclusively with the newer style? What's wrong with the Haruhi 2006 style? I think that it would be for the best to go with a style as close to 2006 Haruhi as possible.

Do you want all of KyoAni's titles to have more or less the same new style for their artwork? Wouldn't that cause all of their titles to seem less distinctive from one another, and hence for the art style overall to appear dull and overly common, over time?

[Ice Block]

Originally Posted by Akka

First, it didn't seemed burnt on the edge, as would be the case with a laser.

Unexplainable with my current knowledge and understanding, so I'm inclined to think this was overlooked. If anyone else can give an explanation however...

Originally Posted by Akka

Second, the cut was very jarred, while it should have been one continuous line or curve.

Note that Mikuru was half-cowering (not the right word, maybe shaking?), and eyeball movements aren't really "straight and seamless", so to speak. Plus, the beam is activated and remains active for a second after blinking, and as you may note, blinking causes slight movement/vibration of the eyeball. This results in the jarred cut (mostly in the proximal portion) of the board we see. Also, look at how spread apart the burns on Yuki's palm are.

Originally Posted by Akka

Finally, as a reflecting surface, I'm not even sure it should have been damaged (it heavily depends on the amount of reflectivity it has, though, which admitedly isn't that much).

The board is made of white cardboard or plastic, I believe. Definitely not ceramic or mirror-like. Definitely low enough reflectivity to be penetrated by luminous (light-based, though this might be the wrong word too) weapons.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

3. Haruhi's reality-engineering powers feed off in part from the almost-photographic imagination of the girl. I'd imagine that Haruhi has an active enough imagination that she can visualize the objections of her imagination as if it did actually happen in rea life.

So in the case of the Mikuru Beam, it's probably likely that Haruhi imagined and "saw" what it would have been like if Mikuru actually shot a photon laser out of her eye....and by "seeing" it, caused it to actually happen. So say when Mikuru turned towards Itsuki, Haruhi imagines the Mikuru Beam bisecting the reflector board....and it happens.

Oh, I definitely agree with this. That's certainly the explanation behind why the Mikuru Beam actually occurred, and as a laser. You outline it very well.

However, it doesn't really explain why Haruhi would be commanding Mikuru as though she expected it to occur. For that, I stick to my two possibilities or...

Originally Posted by Akka

As for me, I had the feeling she simply wanted to vent her jealousy on Mikuru. She seems to be pretty irritated with Kyon's eyes being constantly on her, and her sadism toward her seemed to me to be just a bit TOO MUCH to be only her usual jerkassery.

I have to admit that this is possible. Haruhi kind of made her own bed here by putting Mikuru in an absolutely adorable battle waitress outfit... and then also by making Kyon the freakin' camera man, lol.

Hence Kyon's eyes are naturally drawn back Mikuru time and time again; heck, it's his job to do that as the camera man. Haruhi gets jealous of this and takes it out on Mikuru.

[risingstar3110]

Got around to see this episode at last. Brilliant i would say....
- Yuki 's small nod of "should i use magic?" make her look totally cool. In contrast, love to see our moe future battle waitress have to freak out by that gesture
- At least Haruhi didn't force Mikuru-chan to"fell down in pain" in that concrete ground xD
- That monk must have Shaolin Kungfu to dodge that skillfully (i know that he's a Shinto Priest xD)
- Mikuru's really in Haruhi's care. However, whether she like it or not is a different matter
- Kyon, next time describe how's Haruhi looks in your battle waitress image. We can't see her if you don't narrate into the novel xD
- Lol at "Tch, mind reader"
- "Serve you right, Itsuki"
- Main disk: Mikuru's beam....... Now i would like some gif of those "flash"
- Einstein, Yuki's motion is faster than light now.....
- Itsuki's in the verge of get cut in half was hilarious. Of course he scare of Mikuru-beam....... for all his efforts, at least he deserve to be killed by his own Goddess......
- Some how reality (by Kyon's definition) and Haruhi do not mix
- "Like i say big difference. We do not need technical term" - Kyon described his experience after escape death from the fight between the alien magic user witch and battle waitress from future
- Mikuru's so moe when she's allow to live her ordinary bunny girl life ^\\\^
- "Busy person" Tsuruya also have "Take Home" mode? xD

Now excuse me, it's time to let my imagination run wild about how Yuki bit Mikuru and inject those nanomachines. Yuri's moments ensured...

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree with you here. Many people see a mix between newer style and classic Haruhi style with this latest episode... and I really don't. This latest episode is pretty much classic 2006 Haruhi with the exception of lost of line definition from time-to-time. This is the classic style, and I'm very happy to see it back.

For anybody who thinks that episode 12 still has a lot of the newer style in it... can you pick out a scene or two in the episode where it stands out to you? Because... I'm not seeing it. Not at all.


In any event, if this is a mix between newer style and classic Haruhi style, I'll take this any day over the newer style alone. It's far far better than the newer style alone, as it pertains to what suits this anime.

Also, Kaioshin... why do you think it would be "for the best" to go exclusively with the newer style? What's wrong with the Haruhi 2006 style? I think that it would be for the best to go with a style as close to 2006 Haruhi as possible.

Do you want all of KyoAni's titles to have more or less the same new style for their artwork? Wouldn't that cause all of their titles to seem less distinctive from one another, and hence for the art style overall to appear dull and overly common, over time?

I think it's for the best just because it is currently the dominant artstyle. It would be easier to just do the rest of the series in that style since they obviously have no intention of making the 2006 style the dominant one again until we get back to the older episodes in the chronological run. As for why you don't see a difference, it's because this episode actually is more consistant then most episodes in trying to be more like the old style, but it's not perfect. You'd pretty much never see a shot like this in the 2006 run.

Anyway I wouldn't expect this to last, but it would be nice if it does. At least it gives the viewer something pretty to look at for an otherwise subpar arc/season.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think it's for the best just because it is currently the dominant art style.

Putting Endless Eight aside, I'd actually have to disagree with this. Looking at just BLR, and the three Sighs episodes... I see a pretty even mix between new style and 2006 style. And, the 2006 style is the dominant art style in the two most recent episodes, imo.

Perhaps to go along with Endless Eight, KyoAni decided to try out some different art styles with Haruhi, including the one that K-On popularized. However, as Endless Eight falls more and more into the past, they're gradually switching back to Haruhi's distinctive 2006 art style. Certainly, that's what Sighs is making me think, as the farther into the arc we go, the more it looks like 2006 Haruhi. It's a slow and gradual transition back to the classic style, but it is a noticeable one.

I guess that the next two episodes will be what tells the story. If we maintain the art style that we had in this episode, or get even closer to 2006 Haruhi in art style, then we'll probably have our answer as to whether or not the 2006 Haruhi art style is going to stick from here on out.

It would be easier to just do the rest of the series in that style since they obviously have no intention of making the 2006 style the dominant one again.

I guess that I'm just more... optimistic, perhaps... than you are here.

As for why you don't see a difference, it's because this episode actually is more consistant then most episodes in trying to be more like the old style, but it's not perfect. You'd pretty much never see a shot like this in the 2006 run.

True, and I thank you for bringing a specific shot up to demonstrate what you're referring to. But I can live with the occasional flub. I prefer an art style that seems pretty and fitting to me (but with the occasional flub) over an art style that seems ill-suited to me (but consistent).

[Akka]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

Note that Mikuru was half-cowering (not the right word, maybe shaking?), and eyeball movements aren't really "straight and seamless", so to speak. Plus, the beam is activated and remains active for a second after blinking, and as you may note, blinking causes slight movement/vibration of the eyeball. This results in the jarred cut (mostly in the proximal portion) of the board we see. Also, look at how spread apart the burns on Yuki's palm are.

May be a possibility, but I found the cuts to be too shorts and irregulars, considering the speed at which the whole reflector was trounced and the fact that, with the distance, even a very slight movement of the eye would be a long continuous cut.

Though, yes, it's really splitting hairs, and I do it only for the sake of the nitpicking, it didn't really bothered me ^^

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

- "Busy person" Tsuruya also have "Take Home" mode? xD

Unfortunately, I don't think it was a direct quote. Most likely the subbers throwing in the reference as a joke. Still, it was pretty funny.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Now excuse me, it's time to let my imagination run wild about how Yuki bit Mikuru and inject those nanomachines. Yuri's moments ensured...

I sincerely doubt it was anything like what you're picturing.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I guess that the next two episodes will be what tells the story. If we maintain the art style that we had in this episode, or get even closer to 2006 Haruhi in art style, then we'll probably have our answer as to whether or not the 2006 Haruhi art style is going to stick from here on out.

Unfortunately, it'll have been too late by then for most people...

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

However, it doesn't really explain why Haruhi would be commanding Mikuru as though she expected it to occur. For that, I stick to my two possibilities or...

Haruhi is a Genki Girl. It's not entirely out of the question that her yelling at Mikuru about the Beam is her manifesting her enthusiastic imagination onto poor, clueless Mikuru.

On the other hand....

I have to admit that this is possible. Haruhi kind of made her own bed here by putting Mikuru in an absolutely adorable battle waitress outfit... and then also by making Kyon the freakin' camera man, lol.

Hence Kyon's eyes are naturally drawn back Mikuru time and time again; heck, it's his job to do that as the camera man. Haruhi gets jealous of this and takes it out on Mikuru.

....this is entirely plausible as well. So, whatever works.

[Water]

Pretty good episode.


The 2006ish feeling is back.

[chikorita157]

This episode was pretty good, but the art style is still bothering me, although improving... now Tsuruya-san got the new art style which is left to be desired, since I still perfer the first art style... Otherwise, the episode was entertaining although Haruhi being so bossy is making me hate her more as always... (and expected since it's Sighs after all )

Full Episode 12 Thoughts

Rating: 7.8/10 -> 8/10

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Akka

As for me, I had the feeling she simply wanted to vent her jealousy on Mikuru. She seems to be pretty irritated with Kyon's eyes being constantly on her, and her sadism toward her seemed to me to be just a bit TOO MUCH to be only her usual jerkassery.

That, or she was reprogramming Mikuru to fire laser beams via Morse code.

First, it didn't seemed burnt on the edge, as would be the case with a laser.
Second, the cut was very jarred, while it should have been one continuous line or curve.

People are jerky and make poor high-energy laser weapon platforms. Though I'd say that the first arc in the cut probably ought to have taken up half the board by itself. And, reviewing the footage of when Koizumi is examining the edge of the board (probably while wishing for a change of pants,) the front edge does look like it's blackened like it were laser-cut.

Finally, as a reflecting surface, I'm not even sure it should have been damaged (it heavily depends on the amount of reflectivity it has, though, which admitedly isn't that much).

Any mirror can be damaged by a laser of high enough intensity, since a mirror only has so much reflectivity, and doesn't have the same reflectivity across the EM spectrum. After all, assuming a 95% reflective mylar reflector board, the remaining 5% of a 400W beam that can eat through 1/8" mild steel plate or 1/10" of much shinier stainless steel plate, like it were nothing, is still 20 W; which would be more than enough to vaporize a sheet of Mylar a few thousandths of an inch thick and some cardboard.

[Ithekro]

In watching some of the lesser 2006 episodes (Mysterious Sign and Lonely Island) I see some of what people call the "K-On art", or at least prototype versions of it when it comes to Haruhi. In 2009 they have improved on this artwork...more or less. So if these episodes had been done in 2009, they would have looked better than they did originally.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

In watching some of the lesser 2006 episodes (Mysterious Sign and Lonely Island) I see some of what people call the "K-On art", or at least prototype versions of it when it comes to Haruhi. In 2009 they have improved on this artwork...more or less. So if these episodes had been done in 2009, they would have looked better than they did originally.

Based on your post here, I just re-watched a couple minutes from each and every one of the 14 2006 episodes... and the art style is pretty much identical for each and every one. I don't see the slightest element of the new art style anywhere.

Honestly, 2006 Haruhi had a very consistent art style. Haruhi looks on model in each and every 2006 episode. So does Kyon. I truly don't see what you're talking about here.

[Jenni]

I think the quality of the 2006's art is mostly due to Yamakan. Without his direction, the new art has taken a turn for the worse... not to mention the pacing.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Jenni

I think the quality of the 2006's art is mostly due to Yamakan. Without his direction, the new art has taken a turn for the worse... not to mention the pacing.

That would make sense, yeah. Good thinking, Jenni.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by chikorita157

now Tsuruya-san got the new art style which is left to be desired, since I still perfer the first art style...

The only problem I had with Tsuruya was the fact that they had to temporarily use a cardboard cutout for her.

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by Jenni

I think the quality of the 2006's art is mostly due to Yamakan. Without his direction, the new art has taken a turn for the worse... not to mention the pacing.

As far as I know, not all of 2006 episodes were directed by him.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...e.php?id=62666
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutaka_Yamamoto_(director)

And if you want to give some credits in term of animation, it should goes to this person.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...le.php?id=9092

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Shh... people need Yamakan as an excuse for why these aren't as great...