Romance in Macross

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Key Board

But right now, I would say that the plot could be against Ranka because she's leaning to what I call the Hanged Man archetype. To make it short, it's a tarot card that represents defeat for the sake of personal growth.

She's the kind of character that Haruka Suzumiya (Kiminozo) and Isurugi Noe (TrueTears) and gasp, Minmei are. Without their respective heartbreaks their would not have evolved.

Granted, Sheryl has elements of this as well, but right now It's leaning more toward Ranka who being groomed to be THE songtress saviour of Macross F

Yeah I agree with this, I've probably said something in line with this here or on omni's blog but I see Ranka as someone who's problems and issues will be solved by character growth and not just hooking her up with the male lead. I was drawing the parallel between her and Noe on omni's 11 post. Now what did I say...

"Look at how Noe was at the start of the series, look how she overcome her “crutches” at the end without hooking up with Shin, expect the same ending for Ranka."

and

"Yes they are completely different… the parallel I’m drawing between Noe and Ranka is that they were the lead female characters of the show (though Hiromi like Sheryl is pretty much an equal lead) and have the more apparent problems which will be dealt with by character growth and not hooking them up with the main character. Like how Noe was finally able to cry in addition to making friends Ranka will come to terms with her past, overcome her fears and mature as a person. As long as Kawamori doesn’t kill her off that is…"

So we're on the same page on this. Haruka, Minmei, Noe and Ranka hooking up with the main character is just a crutch to fix their issues, Mitsuki, Misa, Hiromi and Sheryl (4 of my fav characters!) otoh are different.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Westlo

"Look at how Noe was at the start of the series, look how she overcome her “crutches” at the end without hooking up with Shin, expect the same ending for Ranka."

=/.....

Originally Posted by Keyboard

When a girl takes to much losing points, her Super Move meter fills up and she performs a super momentum changing move. If done correctly near the end of the series it's a usually triangle winning move. This Super Move meter is not that easily filled up as it seems. If you use it too early, you'll be left defenseless. That's why dramatic emotional revelations are done in chunks.

I'm not being sarcastic or anything but that really did crack me up. Super Move meter lol I think the archetypes you're talking about will always depend on the situation, the story, the character relationships, and the way things are shown through the storyboard. Haruka, Minmei, and Noe have different things going on for them and personally, I don't see Ranka as one of their newest member based on her own situation. Though I do love Noe to pieces.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Westlo

So we're on the same page on this. Haruka, Minmei, Noe and Ranka hooking up with the main character is just a crutch to fix their issues, Mitsuki, Misa, Hiromi and Sheryl (4 of my fav characters!) otoh are different.

My God! Someone who actually understands the basic formula of romances in Macross...I can finally rest in piece...

[lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

My God! Someone who actually understands the basic formula of romances in Macross...I can finally rest in piece...

My thoughts exactly.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Westlo

So we're on the same page on this. Haruka, Minmei, Noe and Ranka hooking up with the main character is just a crutch to fix their issues, Mitsuki, Misa, Hiromi and Sheryl (4 of my fav characters!) otoh are different.

So one third of the love triangle is not even a real love interest?

[CaptGloval]

Yup, from someone who rarely ever speculate on love triangles, the above scenario makes the most sense. But this is based on the assumption that Ranka will still have her "crutch" until the penultimate moment, so I shall stay neutral and expect the unexpected.

What I hope though is that we won't get a Nice Boat... I mean, Nice Space Vessel.

[Wesley84]

Well, I never really bought into Ranka's reason for liking Alto (he "listens" to her), but I don't really sense chemistry between him, her, or Sheryl either. I like Ranka and I like the progression her career has had, but I can't say I'd support her if she seriously pursued a relationship with Alto because to do so at this point would probably be to snatch Alto up before Sheryl gets him, even though that's really not happening and doesn't seem like it will any time soon.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by ani_d

=/.....

What's the matter? Couldn't reply with "lol you're using Kawamori past shows as evidence" so you're left speechless? Weren't you the one who said it was a good ending for Noe anyway? Also if you can't see the similarities between Noe and Ranka than you're being clouded by bias yet again.

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

My God! Someone who actually understands the basic formula of romances in Macross...I can finally rest in piece...

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

My thoughts exactly.

I am to please!

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So one third of the love triangle is not even a real love interest?

Look the love triangle has been in set up with both girls since episode 1 started, I fully expect Alto to have feelings for both girls but end up loving one more than the other. And that one being Sheryl because of the better personality match, chemistry, understanding, interaction from 1-11 and oh just for Ani_D... Kawamori factor!

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Well, I never really bought into Ranka's reason for liking Alto (he "listens" to her), but I don't really sense chemistry between him, her, or Sheryl either.

Meh maybe it's just me (but considering how popular the pairing is I doubt it) but the chemistry between Sheryl and Alto is pretty damn good.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Westlo

What's the matter? Couldn't reply with "lol you're using Kawamori past shows as evidence" so you're left speechless? Weren't you the one who said it was a good ending for Noe anyway? Also if you can't see the similarities between Noe and Ranka than you're being clouded by bias yet again.

No I'm speechless because you can actually see similarities between Noe and Ranka when clearly Ranka's problems in episode 11 is more like Hiromi's problems when Shin starts getting stolen by the Noe. Let me just point out that every scenario is different. Noe's situation IS different from Ranka. From what I can see IN the story, Ranka shines the best when she's with Alto. This is supposed to be bad for her? lol

Taken from episode 11 discussion thread.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Sigh... you're hopeless... you at least agree that Ranka and Sheryl are closer to being Zero and Kaname than Ren and Shou don't you?

Nope. All of their situations are different.

Originally Posted by Westlo

You conveniently ignore that everything I posted in favor of the Sheryl pairing since episode 10 has had nothing to do with that. But hey why mention that? It makes your argument look bad, which is why you never responded to my Misa/Hikaru counter over how Ranka will win because it started in episode 1 I know you want to say that they started in episode 1 as well but than you'll have to admit the same about Sheryl and Alto so of course you won't

I can't believe you're making me go through this again. Misa/Hikaru started connecting later than Hikaru and Minmei (though the two has known each other from the get go), why do you think Kawamori had to bastardize Minmei so that Misa will gain the audience's favor? Also storywise, Misa's the one who got tortured a lot because that Hikaru just couldn't forget Minmei despite her obvious bastardizations.

Hikaru and Misa's relationship progressed gradually just like Alto and Ranka. There's depth in their relationship (and drama). Now you can say there's also depth in Sheryl and Alto's friendship right now, but as things look, Ranka and Alto's relationship has the most potential to grow deeper seeing as the two were already pushed together from the very start and feelings get defined as episodes progress starting through Ranka. Unless they're planning to bastardize Ranka or kill her later, the main pairing the story is giving more focus definitely is Alto and Ranka. I'm sure you noticed.

Happy? Though, I bet you'll have dissociative amnesia again and claim I avoided it cuz of my bias. ^_^ Your own Kawamori history has consistency supporting it, everything happened for a reason so you should stop relying on it oh so strongly. It's like clinging to false hopes.

Originally Posted by Westlo

Main girl =! end girl. There's a difference, realize it.

Minmei = Main girl, Misa = End Girl
Noe = Main girl, Hiromi = End Girl.
Ranka = Main girl, Sheryl =.......

Another glitch in your Kawamori/anime history. More like...

Minmei= Villain, Misa= emotional UNDERDOG
Noe=Main girl, stealer of Shin (who clearly has less screentime than Hiromi), Hiromi= bitter, insecure UNDERDOG
Sheryl= Stealer of attention, Ranka= passive UNDERDOG

Any writers will want their end girl gain the audience's favor. Please don't start with the popularity polls cuz we all know it doesn't hold water when it comes to the story's narration.

[evil|plushie]

How on earth is Minmei a villain?? She saved humanity -_- Like it or not, she was easily the main female char for like 2/3 of the series.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

How on earth is Minmei a villain?? She saved humanity -_- Like it or not, she was easily the main female char for like 2/3 of the series.

LOL figures. Sorry. I didn't mean actual villain. What I meant is, because of her, Misa's chances with Hikaru gets sabotaged.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Sabotaged how?

It was Minmei that was the underdog in the triangle after space war 1.

[evil|plushie]

Uh...basically, ani_d, what you're saying is basically that minmei was a love interest and the stronger one at that? -_- Wasn't that kinda obvious...

[justinstrife]

All I know is, unless this is the .001% where I'm wrong in anime romance predictions, ani_d is going to be VERY disappointed with the pairings by the time the show ends.

[cerrian]

Ugh....good job guys, just completely spoiled True Tears for me.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by cerrian

Ugh....good job guys, just completely spoiled True Tears for me.

I'll have you know, I didn't once mention True Tears. Only DYRL and Macross Plus and I think I used spoiler tags when appropriate.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ani_d

Another glitch in your Kawamori/anime history. More like...

Minmei= Villain, Misa= emotional UNDERDOG
Noe=Main girl, stealer of Shin (who clearly has less screentime than Hiromi), Hiromi= bitter, insecure UNDERDOG
Sheryl= Stealer of attention, Ranka= passive UNDERDOG

Although Frontier pays mucho homage to Macross 1982, this is anything but. I am not going to go as far as to assume the entire show would be a carbon copy with new faces.

Moreover, let us not forget his 'other' Macross franchise, PLUS, SEVEN, and ZERO. All these easily blow your logic out of proportion, as none of them follow the convention you mentioned.

Frontier is a new show. It has its own take on the triangle, I say we brace ourselves and wait.

- Tak

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Justinstrife

All I know is, unless this is the .001% where I'm wrong in anime romance predictions, ani_d is going to be VERY disappointed with the pairings by the time the show ends.

I tend to pay more attention to a claim if it can point out where I went wrong in saying that Ranka will still fail to win Alto's heart despite the story's indepth focus on her emotions. Is it because bittersweet is the current trend right now that she's on her way to heartbreakville? lol I want someone to give me a good explanation (and convince me) as to why the story makes Sheryl's relationship with Alto becomes second priority when it comes to Ranka's own character development. (episode 10, 11 most especially)

As we all can see, the two main girls in MF don't have a 50-50 focus in the story, and noone has ever said (maybe just Westlo lol) that if one of the girls is important to the plot she can't end up with Alto. There's absolutely no rule to base this from. We don't know what's in store past episode 14, but can we really expect that after all the Ranka developments from the first half of the series, she's out to be put in the back burner to make way for a 'Sheryl' show? According to what? Macross history?

For once let's not bring up another Macross history and just look at Macross Frontier at the moment. As things stand on the last episode, this is the point as to whether Ranka will give up on Alto or not for the sake of her newfound dream. I for one think she'll go after Alto, and if she does, her chances to be with him are going to be pretty high all because the story is on her side. I guess this is the root of my argument, no matter how good Sheryl connects with Alto, the story pays attention to Ranka's side of the boat and, imo, that's a stronger argument than all the Kawamori history and mambo jumbos.

Originally Posted by Tak

Frontier is a new show. It has its own take on the triangle, I say we brace ourselves and wait.

I lost count on how many times I've said this, but you're supposed to be telling this to someone else. I'm not the one who brought up all these parallelisms from SDF Macross and stuffs.

*edit

Tags...Can someone please add Ranka down there already? x__xxxx

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I tend to pay more attention to a claim if it can point out where I went wrong in saying that Ranka will still fail to win Alto's heart despite the story's indepth focus on her emotions. Is it because bittersweet is the current trend right now that she's on her way to heartbreakville? lol I want someone to give me a good explanation (and convince me) as to why the story makes Sheryl's relationship with Alto becomes second priority when it comes to Ranka's own character development. (episode 10, 11 most especially)

As we all can see, the two main girls in MF don't have a 50-50 focus in the story, and noone has ever said (maybe just Westlo lol) that if one of the girls is important to the plot she can't end up with Alto. There's absolutely no rule to base this from. We don't know what's in store past episode 14, but can we really expect that after all the Ranka developments from the first half of the series, she's out to be put in the back burner to make way for a 'Sheryl' show? According to what? Macross history?

I have already laid out reasons why I believe the ending will go the way it will go romance wise. From a writer's stand point, the story would have to deviate quite far from it's current path, to end the way you envision it. Not to mention the fact, that you are a little delusional in some of your analysis of Alto x Ranka x Sheryl. I hate to sound mean, but others have already pointed out your bias and how it has clouded your judgment on situations.

[Tsuchiro]

Originally Posted by ani_d

I tend to pay more attention to a claim if it can point out where I went wrong in saying that Ranka will still fail to win Alto's heart despite the story's indepth focus on her emotions. Is it because bittersweet is the current trend right now that she's on her way to heartbreakville? lol I want someone to give me a good explanation (and convince me) as to why the story makes Sheryl's relationship with Alto becomes second priority when it comes to Ranka's own character development. (episode 10, 11 most especially)

As we all can see, the two main girls in MF don't have a 50-50 focus in the story, and noone has ever said (maybe just Westlo lol) that if one of the girls is important to the plot she can't end up with Alto. There's absolutely no rule to base this from. We don't know what's in store past episode 14, but can we really expect that after all the Ranka developments from the first half of the series, she's out to be put in the back burner to make way for a 'Sheryl' show? According to what? Macross history?

For once let's not bring up another Macross history and just look at Macross Frontier at the moment. As things stand on the last episode, this is the point as to whether Ranka will give up on Alto or not for the sake of her newfound dream. I for one think she'll go after Alto, and if she does, her chances to be with him are going to be pretty high all because the story is on her side. I guess this is the root of my argument, no matter how good Sheryl connects with Alto, the story pays attention to Ranka's side of the boat and, imo, that's a stronger argument than all the Kawamori history and mambo jumbos.

meh.. your arguments are getting kinda old for someone who only watched 2 episodes of sdf and wiki the rest