[Manga] Chapter 458 Discussion

[Freya]

Lol yeah that's pretty funny they can't notice them.

Another point at how sad Naruto is at the bijuu. He's like the only one who can't control/have a good relationship/friendship.

[JustRob]

Actually he can control three tails. All others who have shown to be able to have good control were two tails or lower (excluding Killer Bee). So I'd say he's still okay. Especially for someone like Naruto who normally sucks at chakra control.

[Tettsuo]

Kyuubi was not seal in his host like the others Bijuu were, and probably for a good reason. Kyuubi is most like extraordinarily hard to control or unwilling to be controlled. At every turn he's been trying to get out of Naruto and gain full control. I don't think it'll be prone to participate in anything Naruto wants to use him for.

It has one goal... escape, and Naruto is it's only prison guard.

[lonewolf777]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

It has one goal... escape, and Naruto is it's only prison guard.

Lol. I would like my chances if that were the case.

Anyway, it's been said that Naruto can control up to three-tails... can he really? Just because he doesn't transform, is it indicated that three-tails or less is under his control? Cuz he still seems angry and unreasonable, just not as powerful.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

It has one goal... escape, and Naruto is it's only prison guard.

Well then Naruto sucks because he is always giving the prisoner roam time and almost unlocked his shackles if it wasnt for the owner of the prison helping out one last time before he retired.

I can understand why Sasuke isn't being noticed he is probably doing a Malik from the Abridged Series and everytime anyone notices him he turns on his sharingan and shouts 'Ignore me! The power of my midr-sharingan compels you'

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by lonewolf777

Anyway, it's been said that Naruto can control up to three-tails... can he really? Just because he doesn't transform, is it indicated that three-tails or less is under his control? Cuz he still seems angry and unreasonable, just not as powerful.

-For Naruto, the point where his control over the Kyuubi and the Kyuubi dominating him are a bit of a blurr. In his tailed states (1, 2 and 3) he is shown to still be in control of the power enough to not attack his allies. However, even during these states, he is shown to be more feral and instinctive as opposed to calculating and strategic. The only state he seems to have full control over the Kyuubi chakra is during his 0-tailed state (no shroud). But to be fair, he never entered his tailed states when he was calm and collected, only when he was overcome by his own anger. So whether or not he has/will have control over these states is left to be answered.

-As for the chapter, I find Mifune's line suspicious. Making Danzou the head of the alliance just because his is the only country with a Jinchuuriki? Come on, that's not how you forge treaties that are actually supposed to hold up for an extended period of time.

[JustRob]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-For Naruto, the point where his control over the Kyuubi and the Kyuubi dominating him are a bit of a blurr. In his tailed states (1, 2 and 3) he is shown to still be in control of the power enough to not attack his allies. However, even during these states, he is shown to be more feral and instinctive as opposed to calculating and strategic. The only state he seems to have full control over the Kyuubi chakra is during his 0-tailed state (no shroud). But to be fair, he never entered his tailed states when he was calm and collected, only when he was overcome by his own anger. So whether or not he has/will have control over these states is left to be answered.

-As for the chapter, I find Mifune's line suspicious. Making Danzou the head of the alliance just because his is the only country with a Jinchuuriki? Come on, that's not how you forge treaties that are actually supposed to hold up for an extended period of time.

Jiraiya said he had "some degree of conciousness" while in three tails. Meaning he had just enough conciousness to discern enemy from ally. He also never attacks his allies during the Sasuke retrieval arc, and even never attacks his allies in four tails unless they came up to him (as with Sakura). But as Jiraiya spent the most time constantly with Naruto, and from Naruto's actions, I think it's safe to say he has little control in three tails, and completely loses control in four tails.

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by james0246

Except, since Yugito never had any real control over her's, and she lived for near 30 years in the same village as Kirabi, it seems unlikely that the skill could have been taught, or else why wouldn't Kirabi have taught Yugito?

Because Yugito doesn't have "save the world, stop the wars" speech he's got waiting from Naruto

[Ero-Senn1n]

I think it's obvious that Kishi does not want monster fights, he wants ninja fights, thats much more entertaining and meaningful. So Naruto fighting like KillerBee won't happen, he will fight in his human body. I think that Naruto will successfully combine the kyuubi chakra with sage mode so that he will probably be able to break the 5 minute barrier of his sage mode, more importantly he should be able to go into sage mode instantly since that is required when he is unexpectedly attacked by strong ninjas.

Also he should be able to do more than 2 rasenshurikens before running out of sage mode, Kishi likes to create such limits so that later he can break them, for example Kakashi could do only 2 or 3 chidoris in the beginning of the manga, now it seems he can do at least twice as much.

There's also the "key" to kyuubi, i don't know if Kishi forgot about that, since Naruto has already been in almost 9 tails mode and the seal was almost broken before the 4th restored it, so i really don't understand what can be the role of the "key" in the story.

Then there's Itachi's gift, since Naruto is particularly weak against genjutsu it's obvious that it should be some genjutsu power given to Naruto. I think it might be a tsukiyomi world sealed in Naruto that will come alive and will absorb Naruto and Sasuke into it's imaginary world where Itachi will be able to finally be sincere with Sasuke, a Sasuke-Itachi conversation without lies is definitely needed in this manga for Sasuke's happy end, because i think that Sasuke will deserve that short time of happyness with family that he had before the massacre. Sasuke will surely shit his pants if Naruto's eye turns into Itachi's MS and casts a tsukiyomi on him

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Well Kisame just matches up better to the Eight-tails. I mean Kisame specializes in swordsmanship just like the Eight-Tails, has a huge amount of chakra [The largest in Akatsuki and that's sayin something] just like the Eight-tails but the deciding factor could be Kismae's Samehada, which can absorb chakra.

I think people have gotten the wrong idea. I large amount of chakra doesn't make an individual the most powerful.

A large pool of chakra simply means that Kisame can do jutsu that require a lot of chakra and maintain them because of his large chakra capacity. It not so different than Naruto creating 2,000 kb clones. That required a huge chakra capacity to pull that off, but that hardly made Naruto the most powerful genin at that point.

I think some of you are mistaking a large chakra pool for some uber power level. They are not the same, and if they were I'm willing to wager that Kisame would have wound up being Akatsuki's leader instead of Pain. Having incredible and deadly justu at your disposal and having the energy/chakra to maintain those jutsu for extended periods are not the same issue.

Now that isn't to say that Kisame isn't formidable in his own right. I'm sure he is. Still however I don't think that the amount of chakra he has at his disposal is in direct proportion to his skill or ninja prowess.

For instance, it appears that each jinchuuriki has large chakra pools due to their bijuu. With that said, Gaara was defeated not because his chakra ran out or anything like that. Gaara was beaten because the right tactic was used, and his adversary had the right techniques to combat Gaara's own.

The same will apply to Kisame. I believe we've seen the only direct impact Kisame's large chakra capacity will have on his battles: Extremely large bodies of water out of nowhere in which to work his water jutsu. That and the ability to use multiple water jutsu at the same time(as seen when he trapped Team Gai in water bubbles and fought Gai himself simultaneously. He may even create some tidal waves or giant killer whales made out water, but its more of the same without leaving Kisame spent.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Well that's more believable then crashin in and screaming "JOIN MY NAKAMA" in a race for peace and then Rakaige saying "YEAH SURE, WHY NOT." Not gonna happen...

Actually, they are both unbelievable and unrealistic, and neither is more believable than the other. Begging for mercy does not encite sympathy (pity, yes; sympathy, no), and demanding a random person that they join your crew makes no real sense. Either instance is ultimately stupid...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Did you notice how she could go 2 tails on will and still retain control the only person with no real control so far over their bijuu is Naruto and that is because his bijuu has the most chakra, intelligence and pride.

Well Naruto and Gaara. Gaara didn't sleep for years because he was afraid of his bijuu eating at his soul why he slept. And the only way he could use its full power was to go into a trance and let the Ichibi completely take over his will. But since we have limited examples we don't really know what the norm is as far as control over bijuu by the host

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-As for the chapter, I find Mifune's line suspicious. Making Danzou the head of the alliance just because his is the only country with a Jinchuuriki? Come on, that's not how you forge treaties that are actually supposed to hold up for an extended period of time.

Yeah. Mifune's suggestion is suspect. But then again, the bijuu are symbols of status and power in the Naruto world. That's why Hashirama distributed them among the countries to balance power. Mifune might feel it's just natural that the only village that was strong enough to retain its bijuu leads the alliance. The other kages aren't likely to go along with it...unless Danzou does some smooth talking soon.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Yeah. Mifune's suggestion is suspect. But then again, the bijuu are symbols of status and power in the Naruto world. That's why Hashirama distributed them among the countries to balance power. Mifune might feel it's just natural that the only village that was strong enough to retain its bijuu leads the alliance. The other kages aren't likely to go along with it...unless Danzou does some smooth talking soon.

-I suppose this is where we would bare witness to Danzou's political skills. But, as we saw in this chapter, Danzou being the head of the alliance is not going to fly smoothly, especially with the Raikage, who judging from this chapter was a quite appauled by the suggestion. Not that I blame him. This sudden support for Danzou by a thrid party is almost a mirror-image of the time he got declared as the Rokudaime Hokage, where one council member pushed to tides in his favour.

[wtfftw]

i hope they finish this story fast

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

I think people have gotten the wrong idea. I large amount of chakra doesn't make an individual the most powerful...

I know, the chakra just allows one's jutsu's to be more effective and use more. I know Kisame ain't the strongest in Akatsuki, he even said Itachi was above him.

Originally Posted by james0246

Actually, they are both unbelievable and unrealistic, and neither is more believable than the other. Begging for mercy does not encite sympathy (pity, yes; sympathy, no), and demanding a random person that they join your crew makes no real sense. Either instance is ultimately stupid...

Naruto simply made a request HUMBLY to a stranger who is an elder Kage, a man of authority, that is very believable. The other is pure garbage..

[Orga777]

I like where this arc is going. I hope I won't be disappointed.... A lot of up-side can be made in this arc. Hope it doesn't suffer from the same fate the Pain Arc did though...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Naruto simply made a request HUMBLY to a stranger who is an elder Kage, a man of authority, that is very believable. The other is pure garbage..

Only you would think that demanding someone to do something, and then threatening them with retaliation if they do not do it, is humble .

Naruto never humbly asked anything, he threatened retaliation/revenge if Sasuke is harmed.

That being said, you are needlessly (and a little foolishly) comparing a comedic moment (Luffy asking a select few characters to join his crew without fully knowing them) to what is supposed to be a serious moment (Naruto begging/threatening various Kumo-nin). Unless you are trying to say the moment is question in One Piece was being serious, or the moment in question in Naruto was comedic, your comparison of the two is a little pointless and comes out of no-where (you have been needlessly comparing One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto for the past few weeks. Maybe you should follow your own advice and simply discuss the content you see before you (i.e. this chapter), without involving other series that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.).

[Phenomenal]

^Naruto never threatened with retaliation..

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

^Naruto never threatened with retaliation...

And saying that Konoha would go to war with Kumo if they hurt Sasuke isn't a threat? Especially considering that Konoha is now trying to kill Sasuke with only a select few disagreeing with the proclamation (Naruto chief among them)?

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by james0246

And saying that Konoha would destroy Kumo if they hurt Sasuke isn't a threat..

Nah, as in Naruto didn't want that chain of hate to start...the cycle that Nagato was talking about..Nothing about Naruto threatning with retaliation.