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-Sho- · 2011-12-19, 05:34

I'm amazed that Gundam Seed series are the #1 debate in Gundam sub-f

Gundamx · 2011-12-19, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The Zaft leader is dead, and Lacus is a beloved figure in Zaft (hence Durandal's using Meer) so she was the natural choice of replacement.

In all my years arguing with people about this I have yet to find any proof about an argument between Fukuda, Morosawa and Shindo. The only VA I know that complained was Kenichi Suzumura and that was years after the series was over and about the ending.

The guy you're talking about complained about how Morosawa was late with the scripts (which is what caused the massive numbers of recap episodes)

Than why do you think that Cagalli VA stop voicing her in any destiny game?
( if the game have seed than you will hear her voice but only in seed character)

Znozzy · 2011-12-19, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

The Zaft leader is dead, and Lacus is a beloved figure in Zaft (hence Durandal's using Meer) so she was the natural choice of replacement.

In all my years arguing with people about this I have yet to find any proof about an argument between Fukuda, Morosawa and Shindo. The only VA I know that complained was Kenichi Suzumura and that was years after the series was over and about the ending.

The guy you're talking about complained about how Morosawa was late with the scripts (which is what caused the massive numbers of recap episodes)

So, because John F Kennedy was shot, Marilyn monroe would be a suited replacement for him because the population loved her?

Yeah, as i said, if i recall he was also the one who confirmed the arguments between Moro/Fuku and Shindo

Charred Knight · 2011-12-19, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Znozzy

So, because John F Kennedy was shot, Marilyn monroe would be a suited replacement for him because the population loved her?

Yeah, as i said, if i recall he was also the one who confirmed the arguments between Moro/Fuku and Shindo

Did Marilyn Monroe run a private army? Lacus Clyne runs Terminal, which is the main force opposing Durandal. What more do you want Lacus to do?

and yet in 7 years I have yet to see proof that Fukuda and Shindo had an arguement.

Znozzy · 2011-12-19, 15:07

Private army? no, not really, but you do see the point, dont you?

A politicians daughter, who is also a popidol suddenly has an army, do you see that as realistic?

Not to mention that she is flawless.

tetsuo69 · 2011-12-19, 16:02

wasn't her father the chairman? wouldn't that be more like the daughter of the ex president, seeing as how whne her father got killed zala was in control.

Znozzy · 2011-12-19, 16:03

i thought he was on the council but stepped down in the show? i havnt seen Seed in quite a while now so correct me if im wrong here.

Being the daughter or not, her position at the end of Destiny makes no sense.

Charred Knight · 2011-12-19, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Private army? no, not really, but you do see the point, dont you?

A politicians daughter, who is also a popidol suddenly has an army, do you see that as realistic?

Not to mention that she is flawless.

When she's a good leader in her own right, and a person that the people can rally around? I think that's fine, the fact that she's a good singer is an enjoyable twist. When you get past the whole giant robot army the Lacus Clyne being a young leader really isn't a problem.

UC Gundam: People develop telepathic abilities, also ghost are involved.
G Gundam: Guys can lift skyscrapers by punching them
Gundam Wing: The entire world can't defeat 5 guys
Gundam 00: The entire world can't defeat 4 guys

Revolutionist · 2011-12-19, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

When she's a good leader in her own right, and a person that the people can rally around? I think that's fine, the fact that she's a good singer is an enjoyable twist. When you get past the whole giant robot army the Lacus Clyne being a young leader really isn't a problem.

UC Gundam: People develop telepathic abilities, also ghost are involved.
G Gundam: Guys can lift skyscrapers by punching them
Gundam Wing: The entire world can't defeat 5 teenagers
Gundam 00: The entire world can't defeat 4 guys

fixed that for you

I don't agree with 00 though. At first the 4 guys have overwhelming technology that makes them immune to the world's weapons, and when they did in fact go up against the entire world they lost, and had to be saved by the Trinities. Most of the other battles are small in scale though. Not to mention they don't really win, they just barely scrape by once the UN gets GN drives. I mean, they lose their ship, two operators and the doctor, they lose Lockon, Alelujah gets captured by Soma/Sergei, and Tieria and Setsuna are disabled.

aeriolewinters · 2011-12-19, 20:06

Quote:

Being the daughter or not, her position at the end of Destiny makes no sense.

Again, her position isn't implausible.It's how she got there that's head-scratching. There are good examples of Family members in democratic societies taking reigns after their relatives got killed by assassination. Take A look at Benigno Aquino Jr. from the Philippines and you'll see that it isn't really hard for a daughter of a center-stage politician (which Siegel was) to be plunged in when Benigno Aquino's wife (Cory Aquino) was plunged into Malacanang with absolutely no political Background.

Lacus' position and who she is isn't questionable, in fact it is what it is. The real question should be how she got into the position.

Znozzy · 2011-12-19, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

When she's a good leader in her own right, and a person that the people can rally around? I think that's fine, the fact that she's a good singer is an enjoyable twist. When you get past the whole giant robot army the Lacus Clyne being a young leader really isn't a problem.

UC Gundam: People develop telepathic abilities, also ghost are involved.
G Gundam: Guys can lift skyscrapers by punching them
Gundam Wing: The entire world can't defeat 5 guys
Gundam 00: The entire world can't defeat 4 guys

UC Gundam: People develop telepathic abilities to cope with the emptiness of space and newtype ghosts

G Gundam: Made with a bucket of win and awesome, the show isnt meant to be taken in a serious way.

Gundam wing: The entire world can't defeat 5 Mobile suits which has 99.9% damage reduction due to mega armor

Gundam 00: The entire world can't defeat 4 machines that are 200 years ahead of them in technology for 19 episodes

Gundam Seed: Using oppertunities, being the ex-chairmans daughter which gives you supporters with connections and a state of the arc ship ends up getting you into a three ship alliance. Later on escape to a beach house in Orb, Plausible.

Gundam Seed Destiny: Being a ex-pop idol gives you a secret base under your house, a secret spacebase, a secret army, state of the arc war machines which can turn the tide of a war by themselfs and turns you into the supreme Fraulin of all space-people in the end?

no, thats not plausible

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Again, her position isn't implausible.It's how she got there that's head-scratching. There are good examples of Family members in democratic societies taking reigns after their relatives got killed by assassination. Take A look at Benigno Aquino Jr. from the Philippines and you'll see that it isn't really hard for a daughter of a center-stage politician (which Siegel was) to be plunged in when Benigno Aquino's wife (Cory Aquino) was plunged into Malacanang with absolutely no political Background.

Lacus' position and who she is isn't questionable, in fact it is what it is. The real question should be how she got into the position.

so true, the question is how she got there, since it isnt explained. That's why i find her position so obscene at the ending of Destiny.

Charred Knight · 2011-12-19, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Znozzy

UC Gundam: People develop telepathic abilities to cope with the emptiness of space and newtype ghosts

G Gundam: Made with a bucket of win and awesome, the show isnt meant to be taken in a serious way.

Gundam wing: The entire world can't defeat 5 Mobile suits which has 99.9% damage reduction due to mega armor

Gundam 00: The entire world can't defeat 4 machines that are 200 years ahead of them in technology for 19 episodes

Gundam Seed: Using oppertunities, being the ex-chairmans daughter which gives you supporters with connections and a state of the arc ship ends up getting you into a three ship alliance. Later on escape to a beach house in Orb, Plausible.

Gundam Seed Destiny: Being a ex-pop idol gives you a secret base under your house, a secret spacebase, a secret army, state of the arc war machines which can turn the tide of a war by themselfs and turns you into the supreme Fraulin of all space-people in the end?

no, thats not plausible

so true, the question is how she got there, since it isnt explained. That's why i find her position so obscene at the ending of Destiny.

Lacus has connections from her father, it's not unrealistic to think that she has supporters that can help her get those things (Orb for example). Terminal is a pretty large organization with a massive number of aces.

I don't expect an anime to have perfect realism as that just causes you to nitpick series. As long as it's not something blatant or contradicts something earlier in the series than I can suspend my disbelief. For example I really don't care that Celestial Being has a massive technology department. I don't care about how newtypes don't really make any sense. G Gundam is my favorite Gundam series, and that's one of the goofiest series ever.

Rising Dragon · 2011-12-20, 02:13

So what's all this talk about Lacus have to do with Kira and Shinn?

JediNight · 2011-12-20, 03:24

Well with Gundam00, you have to keep in mind they DID get double-crossed. If Ribbons hadn't sold them out by providing the Tau drives, who knows how long it would have taken them to develop their own similar technology. And the whole inconsistent manner in which they deal with Tau power -- early on they run out quickly, and are stated to be weaker etc. But by the end of the show the Tau are doing huge beam spam, using TransAm etc. and still not running out of power.

As for Gundam Seed Destiny: It was poorly written to start, and then it only got worse when Fukuda kept making changes for merchandise reasons. Shinn is like if Kamille never got Bright-slapped and stayed a whiny little brat the entire show in Zeta.

Charred Knight · 2011-12-20, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNight

Well with Gundam00, you have to keep in mind they DID get double-crossed. If Ribbons hadn't sold them out by providing the Tau drives, who knows how long it would have taken them to develop their own similar technology. And the whole inconsistent manner in which they deal with Tau power -- early on they run out quickly, and are stated to be weaker etc. But by the end of the show the Tau are doing huge beam spam, using TransAm etc. and still not running out of power.

As for Gundam Seed Destiny: It was poorly written to start, and then it only got worse when Fukuda kept making changes for merchandise reasons. Shinn is like if Kamille never got Bright-slapped and stayed a whiny little brat the entire show in Zeta.

I thought the first 8 episodes where really good, you had them chasing the Earth Alliance, then you have the fall of Junius 7 which I felt was incredibly well done. The part where Athrun is faced with the legacy of his father is amazing, while it also does a really good job of emphasizing skill over mecha with the Zala loyalist being able to hold their own.

Znozzy · 2011-12-20, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I thought the first 8 episodes where really good, you had them chasing the Earth Alliance, then you have the fall of Junius 7 which I felt was incredibly well done. The part where Athrun is faced with the legacy of his father is amazing, while it also does a really good job of emphasizing skill over mecha with the Zala loyalist being able to hold their own.

Agree, but after episode 11? 12? was it? i dont really recall, the show started to go downhill in my opinion, 1-11/12 was pretty good though, we got to know the Minerva's crew, Athrun did some piloting aswell, imo he should've stayed at orb or just kept a background role with Kira.

Remove the Destiny plan, let durandal be a nice character, let the EF be bad and hunt out Logos, have Kira & Co join Zaft in the final battle since the EF somehow managed to spam nukes again, end it with Djibril being killed and the Logos supporters arrested, peace for both sides, Orb acts as a mediator between the EF and Zaft, Peace for everyone.

If not, have the Space whales from Seed attack Plant and Earth a'la Gundam 00 movie and have both sides unite against them, works too.

JediNight · 2011-12-20, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I thought the first 8 episodes where really good, you had them chasing the Earth Alliance, then you have the fall of Junius 7 which I felt was incredibly well done. The part where Athrun is faced with the legacy of his father is amazing, while it also does a really good job of emphasizing skill over mecha with the Zala loyalist being able to hold their own.

Yes that IS the general consensus IMHO -- there was great potential for about the first 7/8 episodes.

I would argue though that it was a critical flaw focusing on Athrun and Cagalli the way they did at all. Because it basically precipitated a reset of all the character development they each had in the first season. Then Kira and Lacus were just kinda lukewarm idling... "they were there. That's it." kinda feeling for like 30 episodes

XFreedom · 2011-12-22, 20:41

- I see Kira as the Protector and Wise, who always want to protect others and only fight if it's the only choice. Through out GSD, he tried not to hit the mobile suits cockpit as he don't want any life to be lost (although i wonder how the Freedom's auto aim can shoot so accurate to avoid the cockpit :|)

- Shinn on the other hand present himself as the Destruction and Stupidity. He is so easily corrupted by the past which cannot be changed. And although Athrun has persuade him many times, Shinn still live in his own world and not think about the others.

Many people question how Shinn got so strong and can whipped out the whole Orb's fleet as well as the Freedom. Simply because he just want to kill, to take others life to revenge for his lost. And Kira was only protecting to Archangle and did not intend to kill Shinn.

winter45 · 2011-12-23, 07:12

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