[GS/GSD, Spoilers for both] Athrun/Cagalli or Athrun/Meyrin?

[Yzak]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

You want to know what's the saddest thing about that? People will still wh...I mean "discuss" about it in a manner you said above regardless whether or not they are actively involved in the main story or not. I've seen enough of this place to say, "Oh it's true, it's damn true."

Part of me wishes Fukuda comes back (( not Morosawa though )) so that this part of the forum gets thinned down by the ones claiming they will never touch a SEED by Fukuda again. Then again, I have a feeling they'll just eat their words.

I also love how everyone hates Fukuda so much yet without him SEED or their precious OTP wouldn't be. Not saying I don't sometimes agree with some of the things with him regarding Destiny, but God.

But yeah, nobody's going to stop watching. Or maybe, like a lot of instances I have seen, will only stop until something happens with their omfg favorite character/pairing and only then will they go back to watching again.

[thedonkiluminati]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

You want to know what's the saddest thing about that? People will still wh...I mean "discuss" about it in a manner you said above regardless whether or not they are actively involved in the main story or not. I've seen enough of this place to say, "Oh it's true, it's damn true."

When's the last time Kurt Angle actually used that line?

[LadyMadChan]

Personally I think Cagalli should have been there to have Shinn and her make up. That is if she was actually going to be a part of their lives. It seems like she isn't. Now Shinn, Kira and Athrun (along with Luna, Lacus and Meyrin~) are all going to fight together. It would be a good thing for her to make peace with Shinn. Kira was there, who killed the girl he wanted to protect. Who Shinn tried to kill in return... Cagalli was in a way responsible for the death of his family...and he responsible for the death of a lot of her men. I don't see how it's much different. It just adds more to the fact that Cagalli has been pushed aside. She's still the leader of Orb, but she doesn't seem to be part of "the group" anymore. She is no longer part of the main characters imo. Not like it was in Seed anway.

It's hard to say if she's not part of the group anymore or if Fukuda just wanted to keep her away the crowd (mainly Athrun), to stop her from having a conversation about the state/future of her relationship with Athrun. Anyways, I'm not going to try to refute what you said, it's a pretty valid theory. About keeping her away from the main group in the end of the anime, I got the feeling that Fukuda didn't really want to explain the state of the relationship in the anime, since for the most part people tend to hold onto what happens in the anime (like when Miriallia explained what happened with her and Dearka, most people dropped the relationship, and in the same way since the anime was pretty open-ended about the fate of Asucaga a lot of people still think it's up in the air), opposed to what he says in interviews, since he's known to contradict himself and backtrack on something he's said before. Once he famously said in an interview that Kira liked neither Fllay or Lacus, and then went back on that in the anime by Kira and Lacus having a relationship. It also seemed important to me that the separation scene was re-written and still avoided the Athrun/Cagalli conversation that many wanted to hear, to get the definite take on what's actually going to happen in the future.

I'm not even sure that someone can make the argument that Cagalli is being pushed into the background because she's too busy with her duties for Orb. Isn't Lacus on the council now, and she was still at the memorial. Sure she's isn't at the head like Cagalli is, but her Faction holds a lot of power over Plant, and I'm sure that her country was at least as smashed up as Orb was, and should be in need of her as much as Orb needs Cagalli, if not more.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by mikyu

shinn called her baka because she's a atha ... he has (for some strange reason) a hatred against uzumi and called cagalli baka becaus she's his daughter.

when shinn thinks the ideals caused his family's death ... why would he be mad to a person who isn't be able to protect those ideals? ... beside that, I highly doubt that shinn thought that far
and by the way, I don't think shinn's family died because of the ideals ... but that's off topic.



well ... yeah, the discussion would go offtopic ...
so back to the topic ...

I don't completly agree with your argument about the political reasons to meet shinn ... but what I meant was, cagally has absolutely no personal reasons to meet shinn again, if so ... then by accident. If she meet victims from the war as the representative of orb ... why only shinn? why shinn anyways? he wasn't the only victim. if she would do something as the representative of Orb, then she would do it in public ... but this meeting was a private meeting, so she must have private reasons to meet shinn again, which she doesn't have.

Shinn called her a baka for lecturing another nation's leader about war and power and spouting the same thing that got his family killed. Off topic a bit -.- Shinn's family died because Atha held onto his ideal that Orb must remain neutral and not used to expand the war and natural-coordinator hate, they were a result of his decisions which were made from his ideals and ultimately the old caste's ideals as well.

If Cagalli were to be there to meet Shinn as well I very much doubt politics has anything to do with it. It's more for the sake of puting to rest the the past and allowing Shinn to move on....

Just curious was anyone else expecting Shinn to leave Mayu's cellphone at the memorial at the end of the series?

[PaPe]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Shinn's family died because Atha held onto his ideal that Orb must remain neutral and not used to expand the war and natural-coordinator hate, they were a result of his decisions which were made from his ideals and ultimately the old caste's ideals as well.

I beg to differ, Shinn's family died because his parents chose to not leave their home when the evacuation order was issued from ORB government, at least two days before the first battle in Onogoro.

[Teletha]

Originally Posted by LadyMadChan

It's hard to say if she's not part of the group anymore or if Fukuda just wanted to keep her away the crowd (mainly Athrun), to stop her from having a conversation about the state/future of her relationship with Athrun.

That is possible. The rest too... Though if Fukuda had wanted to all he would have had to have done was put Cagalli there and it's all but assumed Athrun and Cagalli's problem are solved for now. So obviously he intended things to be left open for now.

I wouldn't say she's not part of "the group" she's still Kira's sister and Lacus and Athrun's friend if nothing else. She just doesn't have the luxary of being as free as they are to hang out. Fukuda seems to be making her out to be a martyr almost.

Originally Posted by LadyMadChan

I'm not even sure that someone can make the argument that Cagalli is being pushed into the background because she's too busy with her duties for Orb. Isn't Lacus on the council now, and she was still at the memorial. Sure she's isn't at the head like Cagalli is, but her Faction holds a lot of power over Plant, and I'm sure that her country was at least as smashed up as Orb was, and should be in need of her as much as Orb needs Cagalli, if not more.

Well she has been pushed in the background don't you think? She had no real part in any of the final episodes and her Gundam was given away randomly. All she did was sit and look worried. That's hardly a great part for a main character. Everyone knows she had to stay back in Orb, but I find it weird she was dropped so much from the show. There is no reason she shouldn't have had a bigger role in the possible finale of the Gundm Seed universe, or if not that at least some bit part in Final Plus if they didn't have time to put her in the final episodes of Destiny.

Yes she's very important the world, there is no questioning that... but as for her actual part in the show she has nothing. I'd have to watch it again, but did Cagalli even have a speaking line since episode 45? She made her great come back and then they left her behind. I can't imagine that happening in Seed is what I mean. Everything was about the "core four" in Seed and Cagalli was a huge part of that. Even now most merchandise is centered around Athrun/Kira/Shinn and Lacus/Kira.

Why Fukuda insists that she can't do anything but run a country I don't know. Since Lacus seems to be able to do both like you said.

[boredandsleepy]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Basically the fan in you just refuses to die, like my devotion to Fllay as the real Goddess of the CE. But as I also stated, if Fukuda says they are war comrades,then that's just it.

Can you quote me the line that Fukuda literally said "they are war comrades?". He only responded to the interviewer about how Athrun and Cagalli bonded to each other is more based on being war comrades than being lovers. Is this how you concluded Fukuda's statement that "they are war comrades.". As far as I know when I read Japanese forums, they as well as Asucaga fans don't translate Fukuda's statement as the way you translated.

And you have conveniently forgotten about Cagalli's hots for her own younger twin brother, too, while at that...>.>;; The only time that they actually admitted or had feelings for each other was that awkward kiss just before Athrun headed out to the final battle.

Did Cagalli say she loved or liked Kira (before she knew he's her brother)? Why didn't you look at her feeling for Kira came from natural brother-sister relationship? If you are the writer and want to create the love story for this AthrunxCagalli pair, how will you proceed here? Wasn't the ep48 a great episode for them to tell viewers that they are actually in love to each other? I personally don't see anything odd here, especially the hot kiss from Athrun to Cagalli.

Strike Rouge got shot down and Athrun didn't even yell out Cagalli (or I was just busy looking at the subtitles...>.>;; )...check.

Meeting at the beach when they got a heart to heart talk with Kira and Miriallia and like HELLO he had been with her for the past 2 years knowing everything about her thoughts/ideals/feelings/what have you and he didn't beleive her/comforted her/whatever just because of one certain hot guy ( )...check.

Hasn't he already apologized to Cagalli in ep39!? Maybe I need to scan something again.

Athrun was still all over Lacus during that famous ep 39 (if he didn't goad Kira to leave the base, he wouldn't have gone, that evil person...not that I actually wanted him to do that)...check.

GSD 39 or GS39? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here about Lacus and Athrun.

Cagalli not even doing anything to try protect the love Athrun had so willingly/sincerely gave to her by the means of that ring (just "Yes Yuna I will marry you")...check.

I think a lot of Asumey fans have already used this ep14 about Cagalli's wedding with Yuna as the best example to go against Asucaga. So yours is no longer a surprise to me. I read some forums about this ep14 that Morosawa, in fact, had not participated in it. I also read from the real GSD Novel (I'm researching the official books/guides now) that Cagalli kept having flashback between "Shin's angry look at her in episode 5" and "lovingly look from Athrun". Because she did not want anymore people in Orb being suffered as Shin, she chose to marry Yuna in a very sacrificed way. Even during her wedding with Yuna, she was weeping while thinking of Athrun. As not being ruthless people, I and other fans don't dislike her because of her wedding.

Cagalli entrusting Athrun to Meyrin...check.

Did you read all posts in this thread? Haven't I already explained earlier in this thread? Haven't I been clear that the "entrusting Athrun to Meyrin" did not mean she gave Athrun to Meyrin?

Athrun didn't decide to stay at Orb and be with Cagalli to support her (the 40+ eps OK)...check.

I started to doubt whether you have actually watched the GSD or not. Hello, where was Athrun between episode 40 and 45? What did he fight and protect for? What happened after he's injured again in ep43? Why did he go to moon with Archangel? What uniform did he wear after ep45?

Cagalli not wearing her ring at the most obvious times...check.

Can you be more specific about which episode she did not wear her ring? Of course, I know but I want to know how much you know.

That so-so hug (I do not believe that Final Plus since it was just a special/OVA that only serves as a teaser in anticipation of what's to come SEED 3 and the utter destruction of my favorite character in GSD Shinn)...check.

I'm sorry to object you here. According to Fukuda's latest interview in special Animedia January 2006, he seriously asked everyone to watch the Final Plus.

And Fukuda...check.

??????

You don't have to. Fukuda > fans.

Fans > merchants > Sunrise > Fukuda

The warning signs have already been given. Sometimes just you have to learn to read between the lines.

??????

Fans of characters, fans of couples.

??????

Same here.

??????

And have you understood what I replied to this? Simply put, these are just feelings of these fans, but not of Fukuda himself. Our opinions don't matter much to the director at this point because he's the one who knows the story going on between these 2 than we all do. No fans could ever top the director.

Sorry, no, I don't understand especially the stuff above. Here is the better formula:

Fans > merchants > Sunrise > Fukuda

No, it only serves to add more to the confusion. And I still believe that it's just a special. An OVA.

Well, your so-called confusion special is part of their GSD DVD Final. To me and other fans, this special is the correction to their original Ep50. Some people said this was the revised ep50 or new ep51.

That OP and ED only leads to more fan made assumptions, feelings about their own favorite characters, etc., etc. It's not a valid reason for arguing that so and so is very much in love with character so and so just because they held/were naked/reaching out to one another in the OP/ED. What the director says, stays, end of story. For us diehard fans, wishful thinking.

All right, why not just wait for the director's new interview again. I am not the predictor for Fukuda so he may surprise me again. Who knows.

And I throw that same question back at you. How do you know that he actually is?

Do you mean how do I know he's telling us something thru OPs and Eds in Final Plus? He's the one who serious said he directed the Final Plus in his latest interview so it's legitimate to say he directed/made/created the GSD Final Plus as well as Ops and Eds.

In all anime I've ever watched, nothing gets more dissected thoroughly than GSD's OPs and EDs. It's just made so that artwork, character designs are introduced to the audience so that they would know what they expect. And little bits of the story, supernatural powers that they have and what have you. I mean, if you could read the entire story or what's coming up in the story with just looking at the OP and ED, they might not have as well bothered making the series...

Another case in point: in the last OP we see Rey and Shinn facing each other against the backdrop of Destroy, which was formerly Kira and Shinn. Did Rey and Shinn actually fight in the final ep?

Isn't Rey and Shin looked friendly to each other in the last OP?

Anyway, are we in the same topic here?

Then he must also know that shoujo manga isn't always about being illogical. Sure, there are brushes with first love and all that but still, their relationships were handled decently. Unlike with what he did with SEED and GSD.

Are you talking about Fukuda here? I only knew the latest news about him being a shoujo-manga lover/reader/addicter. I consider it funny to know about it.

There was also a discussion about it before animesuki got hacked. I am not a fan of AsuCaga but saying that their relationship < Shinn and Lunamaria is just absolute

Oh, I see. No, Morosowa did not compare any relationship with ShinxLunamaria. She actually talked about each couple in separate question during her interview. Nothing about her saying who's better than who. I like to stay neutrual for the disccusion about ShinxLunamaria; especially it's not in this topic.

It was all OK until after Athrun went off to space, but still, if we actually ignore the instances I stated above, a fan could see why AsuCaga care about each other deeply, more than just war comrades.

I did not ignore the instances. I actually have already replied. Did you see it?

As for your statement about "war comrades", Fukuda may say later that he proofs to everyone that Athrun and Cagalli love each other and will be together in his next interview. At that time, will you accept what he says? But, as I said before, I am not the predictor so he may surprise me so who knows.

But if you want me to interpret it...

The fact that their hands overlapped meant that even though how much they try to reach out to one another by their feelings of love or what have you, they still "pass each other through", meaning, they each have their own responsibilities to deal with, not to mention, the way the war made them to be at the exact opposite poles of where they were before. If it was shown that they actually held hands, then there is still hope. [B.

I am surprised about your intrepretation. Your interpretation about "But the fact that their hands only overlapped each other means that the love/connection they once shared is fading" is hard to convince everyone here. If they want to show their love's fading, there's no need to create this new OP couples cutscene. If they want us to pay attention to this fading couple, they should have created an individual OP cutscene rather than mixed them with KiraxLacus who obviously the confirmed couple. I've read a lot of shoujo-manga. The gesture we saw about their reaching and overlapping hands usually is illustrating a very deeply-in-love couple and lovers.

Meyrin wasn't just there for being such a cute background decoration now...right? >.>;;

She's in Athrun harem's OP cutscene. Yes, she's there to show Athrun's surrounded by women.

Also, hasn't the GSD Flet's 120% explained to us that the scene with Meyrin and Athrun together did not mean she was the winner, and other character even still have a chance? Have you really read all posts in this thread?

[boredandsleepy]

Murrue's bouncing breasts have to do with the story? That naked Kira/Lacus part has to do with the actual story?

I'm not here to object you but want to hear your comments. Other than these, how about the rest of OPs in Final Plus? Are they all for eye-candies or the ones above are the ones you noticed so far?

[mikyu]

Originally Posted by Teletha

BUT on the other hand you have to wonder why they showed it like that at all. There is no reason at all for Meyrin not to stay with her sister who she was just reunited with is there? I mean you can't have it both ways. You can't say it didn't mean anything because they weren't shown as a "couple" (when Luna and Shinn weren't really either) but then ignore the fact that they walked away together at all. Obviously, they walked away together in the same general direction with Meyrin following Athrun. That means something even if Asucaga fans refuse to admit it. There is no reason to show it that way otherwise. Athrun could have walked alone and Meyrin stayed with her sister. Or they could have all stood there and then left together. It's adding to the general confusion of it all. You know until I see Gundam Seed 3 and Fukuda changes his mind and has Athrun and Cagalli married with 2.5 kids, it's still an open ended ending and AsuMey is still a very valid choice for a fan to make.

all hypothesis ... I could make another story about the "true" reason of the whole "walking away" szene (and put it in the ridiculous pic thread ) ... and it would mean the same thing for me like the asumey thing. I mean, if that really should show us that athrun is in love with meryin now ... it would just be another ridiculous couple like shinn and luna.
But imo, i like the thought that we're talking about crap and the szene was put together because it looked nice ...

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Shinn called her a baka for lecturing another nation's leader about war and power and spouting the same thing that got his family killed. Off topic a bit -.- ....

I don't want to go offtopic here ... and that's why I won't explain why I don't agree and why my opinion is not the same as yours ...
it's just ... I don't think shinn actually "thinks" when he's mad at somebody ...

Originally Posted by Teletha

Well she has been pushed in the background don't you think? She had no real part in any of the final episodes and her Gundam was given away randomly. All she did was sit and look worried. That's hardly a great part for a main character. Everyone knows she had to stay back in Orb, but I find it weird she was dropped so much from the show. There is no reason she shouldn't have had a bigger role in the possible finale of the Gundm Seed universe, or if not that at least some bit part in Final Plus if they didn't have time to put her in the final episodes of Destiny.

I already found it ridiculous to send a general (kira) to the fronts ... and it took a while until I found a reason. But there is actually no reason why the representative of orb should left the country to fight, it would just show that she don't think about the consequences if she die.
I think Fukuda wanted to show, that she takes her job seriously and that she's become a true leader ... but I already mentioned in this thread ... if fukuda really wanted that, then I would say ... he failed. She has defenitly too little lines and appearances.

Why Fukuda insists that she can't do anything but run a country I don't know. Since Lacus seems to be able to do both like you said.

when did lacus run a country and fight at the front? I don't think Lacus will fight with the Eternal again, now she's a member of the council.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by thedonkiluminati

When's the last time Kurt Angle actually used that line?

About the last time the ever used the word "freaking"?

Anyway, my point is just that regardless whether or not a 3rd series will officially canonise the pairings, be it AsuCaga, AsuMey, nothing will change in this forums, because it is impossible to satisfy everyone.

[Magitiger]

In my opinion these battles over couples are insane. I like Cagalli and Meyrin and have a few opinions on the matter.

Both women in the series were noble in respect. Cagalli may have cried alot in GSD, but she was willing to throw away her happiness and marry a moronic jacka$$ (Yuuna)to please her people and build a better country.

Meyrin sacrificed her relationship with Luna (which to me was never that strong) and made herself a traitor to ZAFT in order to help Athrun escape.


My main problem, which everyone seems to either over look or deny, is that as cute as Athrun is, he is an idiot! He whines for half the series about not being able to do anything. The he gets upset when people are dying in the war and he realizes that he may have been on the wrong side all along. He pretty much reverted to the person that he was in the fist half of Seed! He may have a harem of women but he is too dense to realize it as well. In the battle where Shin almost shoots Cagalli down and Kira was defending her, Athrun got upset for the interference and even tried to block Kira! But when Shin shot Kira down all bets were off and it was then that Athrun decided to run!

The only people he seems to get enraged over are Kira and Lacus! And it is like to he!! with anyone else!


This is not a Athrun bashing thread and I do like the thought of Athrun being with Cagalli. But I don't forsee him ending up with anyone. He will just be there to mope around with Kira when Lacus has her 40th kid (without ever kissing Kira...cuz yes she has skills) and help change diapers!


So all the AthrunXCagalliXMeyrin battles should lower all weapons! Athrun is going to go it alone...calling out Kira's name and getting lectured by Lacus 4-Ever! ^__^

[Teletha]

Originally Posted by Magitiger

Cagalli may have cried alot in GSD, but she was willing to throw away her happiness and marry a moronic jacka$$ (Yuuna)to please her people and build a better country.

Well after her brother saved her countless times and did all the work for her and forced her not to be an idiot.... yes she was noble I suppose. There is no nobility is being a complete and utter idiot.

Meyrin sacrificed her relationship with Luna (which to me was never that strong) and made herself a traitor to ZAFT in order to help Athrun escape.

Meyrin never seemed to like Luna to start with you know...

My main problem, which everyone seems to either over look or deny, is that as cute as Athrun is, he is an idiot! He whines for half the series about not being able to do anything.

What!? Liiies. Athrun is the perfect man. Neither Meyrin nor Cagalli is good enough for him if you want to be truthful about it. /fangirl/ Though Athrun never whined! He brooded. There is a difference.

The only people he seems to get enraged over are Kira and Lacus! And it is like to he!! with anyone else!

Well people forget Athrun has known Kira most of his life and known Lacus for a long time as well. They are friends (and wannabe lovers). Athrun has known Kira and Lacus a lot longer than he has Cagalli. Though Kira is of course his one true love there is no denying that. AsuMey doesn't need to worry about Asucaga, they have to worry about Athrun's obsession with Kira. It is silly to fight over it when everyone knows he loves Kira more than Meyrin, Lacus and Cagalli combined.....

Originally Posted by mikyu

all hypothesis ... I could make another story about the "true" reason of the whole "walking away" szene (and put it in the ridiculous pic thread ) ... and it would mean the same thing for me like the asumey thing. I mean, if that really should show us that athrun is in love with meryin now ... it would just be another ridiculous couple like shinn and luna.
But imo, i like the thought that we're talking about crap and the szene was put together because it looked nice ..

Well it's the same for you isn't it? That's my point. You saying it means nothing is just what suits your purpose. There is no right or wrong answer. Some Asucaga fans just refuse to believe that their couple is in no way absolute anymore. I never once said Athrun was in love with Meyrin btw.

when did lacus run a country and fight at the front? I don't think Lacus will fight with the Eternal again, now she's a member of the council.

Well hello look at what Lacus has done? While Cagalli was getting her country taken over and getting everyone killed it was Lacus who SAVED Orb from total destruction. If not for Lacus Cagalli would be dead. If not for Lacus Kira would be dead..... Not to mention she has her own faction that basically just took over the world. Everyone is just Lacus' puppet. That and she cooks Kira his dinner and is able to pick flowers and walk lovey dovey with him. Lacus does a lot. Running one single country? She runs the world doesn't she?

Though it's funny you are disagreeing with me since saying Lacus can do it so Cagalli should too supports Asucaga...

[Yzak]

Originally Posted by boredandsleepy

I'm not here to object you but want to hear your comments. Other than these, how about the rest of OPs in Final Plus? Are they all for eye-candies or the ones above are the ones you noticed so far?

Most of the OPs are eye candy, and usually don't *always* hold to what's going to happen in the series. An actual example of this IS the Athrun/Cagalli thing in the final plus, because regardless of what the OP showed, they were not together at the end.

I'm just saying, picking apart something like that isn't going to prove anything. Yes, they reached for each other's hands in the OP, but they were not together during almost the whole second half of the series, regardless of what people say they "see in it". That's not dismissing that they're still in love, but they were not together in the end, and if someone should see anything out of that, it's that despite their decisions, they were both extremely impactful people on one another's lives.

[polar720]

I don`t like Cagalli, so I voted for Meyrin since she`s related to Lunamaria.

[boredandsleepy]

Originally Posted by Yzak

Most of the OPs are eye candy, and usually don't *always* hold to what's going to happen in the series. An actual example of this IS the Athrun/Cagalli thing in the final plus, because regardless of what the OP showed, they were not together at the end.

They were not together at the end (the epilogue) DID NOT MEAN they will not be together in the future (future Gundam Series). I think the new OP cutscene in Final Plus has already been clear to us that they are currently at distances but they still love each other.

Originally Posted by Yzak

I'm just saying, picking apart something like that isn't going to prove anything. Yes, they reached for each other's hands in the OP, but they were not together during almost the whole second half of the series, regardless of what people say they "see in it

Again, did you mean I picked the OP part as a way to proof Asucaga?

I picked the part that was the obvious change for Asucaga in Final Plus (the revised episode 50). The original episode 50 did not have the new OP cutscene and the ending sequence with Asucaga as well as the unique ep45's scene (Athrun's passionate hug with Cagalli). During my research lately, there have been a lot of people thinking the same way, "see in it". Although you disagree with it, I am not alone with my comments.

On the other hands, I have posted a bunch of official scans and non-faked documents about Asucaga so I didn't just base/proof my opinions from the new OP.

[boredandsleepy]

Originally Posted by crisis

I assume the reason why many have trouble with Fukada's words, is because he's known to contradict them in the later stages.

In fact, I really wouldn't be surprised if he'll subtly backtrack on the implications he and his wife had set on AsuCaga later. Heck, I think it's already beginning to happen. >_>a (read: boredandsleepy's FP Fukada quote)

Thanks for quoting Fukuda's latest interview. Yes, Fukuda and Morosawa indeed said they did not draw the best (in a regretful way) for both Cagalli and Athrun in their separate interviews. Although I can't be too sure, this also can imply they may make it better for them, especialy Asucaga, in the future episode.

[boredandsleepy]

Originally Posted by Teletha

Obviously, they walked away together in the same general direction with Meyrin following Athrun. That means something even if Asucaga fans refuse to admit it.

And as for your comment about the never existed Asumey pair

AsuMey doesn't need to worry about Asucaga, they have to worry about Athrun's obsession with Kira

Yes, as well as all Asucaga fans and magazines and official guides/books, GSD Flets 120% did not see Meyrin as the winner, too. Read below their official announcement.

Q. At the end, who is the winner to get Athrun?
A. Although Meyrin was together with Athrun at the epilogue, it's not decided she was a winner (note: no "yet" implied here). Still, there is a chance even in the other character.

解答 ガンダムSEED DESTINY設定制作部

Q.結局、アスラン争奪戦の勝者は誰だったんでしょう？
A.『FINAL PLUS』のエピローグでメイリンと一緒にいたりしていますが、
メイリンが勝者と決まったわけではありません。
まだまだ、他のキャラクターにもチャンスはありますよ。

More, there has not yet been a single comment from both Fukuda and Morosawa about the possible relationship between Athrun and Meyrin.

[gs4everagain]

Originally Posted by polar720

I don`t like Cagalli, so I voted for Meyrin since she`s related to Lunamaria.

I don't like Meyrin, so I voted for Cagalli since she's related to Kira.

[monster]

People, these shouldn't be about who you like/dislike. As far as a real relationship goes, Cagalli and Athrun still have a stronger foundation than Meyrin and Athrun. Ok, maybe Cagalli and Athrun still have to sort out the nature of their relationship due to Cagalli's position and stuff. But they're still young, they have years to get things in order. There's no need to rush things, especially after what just happened in GSD. As long as they love each other, which the anime has shown to be the case, then time won't be a problem.

As for Meyrin, her relationship to Athrun, for those who've read/seen Naruto, is like that of Sasuke-Sakura in the beginning of Naruto. Whether it's just a simple crush or the beginning of love, I don't know. But I do know Athrun doesn't share her sentiment. Only since Meyrin is not as vocal about her feelings as Sakura (who knows, maybe Meyrin just admires Athrun), Athrun does not need to be as obvious about his refusal as Sasuke.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by boredandsleepy

Can you quote me the line that Fukuda literally said "they are war comrades?". He only responded to the interviewer about how Athrun and Cagalli bonded to each other is more based on being war comrades than being lovers. Is this how you concluded Fukuda's statement that "they are war comrades.". As far as I know when I read Japanese forums, they as well as Asucaga fans don't translate Fukuda's statement as the way you translated.

The phrase here is ASUCAGA FANS. Oh boy.

The small percentage that you might be speaking of could be a fan of either of them who feel the same way because of what was being shown on the series was pointing towards a different direction directly. It is because of this that I am also about.

But since Fukuda isn't saying that it is it, then they have no way in hell to officially declare them as canon or whatever. Get it?

Did Cagalli say she loved or liked Kira (before she knew he's her brother)? Why didn't you look at her feeling for Kira came from natural brother-sister relationship? If you are the writer and want to create the love story for this AthrunxCagalli pair, how will you proceed here? Wasn't the ep48 a great episode for them to tell viewers that they are actually in love to each other? I personally don't see anything odd here, especially the hot kiss from Athrun to Cagalli.

Going blush blush everytime she comes near him, getting shocked after learning that Kira slept with Fllay, trying to know more about him, giving him that weird hug, then acting all blush blush again when Uzumi said something about having hope for Naturals and Coordinators living peacefully together?

Right. She's treating him like a brother.

Hasn't he already apologized to Cagalli in ep39!? Maybe I need to scan something again.

A simple apology doesn't mean that it's already over or whatever, because of the harm done. Do you seriously believe that?!

GSD 39 or GS39? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here about Lacus and Athrun.

GSD 39.

I think a lot of Asumey fans have already used this ep14 about Cagalli's wedding with Yuna as the best example to go against Asucaga. So yours is no longer a surprise to me. I read some forums about this ep14 that Morosawa, in fact, had not participated in it. I also read from the real GSD Novel (I'm researching the official books/guides now) that Cagalli kept having flashback between "Shin's angry look at her in episode 5" and "lovingly look from Athrun". Because she did not want anymore people in Orb being suffered as Shin, she chose to marry Yuna in a very sacrificed way. Even during her wedding with Yuna, she was weeping while thinking of Athrun. As not being ruthless people, I and other fans don't dislike her because of her wedding.

It is grounds for AsuMey fans like me. It was cruel enough for Athrun. Sure, she has to choose her duties over her personal life, but she didn't say anything; Athrun knew this and was prepared for it, but Cagalli failed saying something to him, especially during that event at the beach. I mean, Athrun only risked treason and whatever just to be with her, and this is what he gets in return?! See if you'd also like it if your bf/gf chose familial matters, duties of country or whatever else over you.

As for official this and official that, it doesn't make anything canon; remember that these official guides or whatever are just takes of staff people who may or may not have particular leaning towards certain couple/character/etc. But staff is not Fukuda. Unless Fukuda says something officially that they/it are canon, then it is canon.

Did you read all posts in this thread? Haven't I already explained earlier in this thread? Haven't I been clear that the "entrusting Athrun to Meyrin" did not mean she gave Athrun to Meyrin?

Then what would you call it? OK, here's my bf, I'm entrusting him to you. Change my bf to Athrun. What does it mean?

If you're entrusting something/someone, it means a lot. You don't give away the person you love just to some random girl in the hallway just like that. How long has Cagalli known Meyrin? Only for a little while. So entrusting someone as Athrun who is...um...more than her life apparently, it's cause for rejoicing in AsuMey fans' part. Did she say "please take care of Athrun for me"? Wait a minute, that would even make it more obvious that their pairing is dead. So back to the word, "entrust". Entrust entails a lot of thinking and decision on the part of Cagalli (maybe) and so she entrusts Athrun to Meyrin. She knew she can't be there for him, she knew there were a lot of times that she wasn't there for him too when he was always there for her, and so, going by GSD's illogical logic, she then hands Athrun like a favorite book or whatever to Meyrin.

Poor Athrun.

I started to doubt whether you have actually watched the GSD or not. Hello, where was Athrun between episode 40 and 45? What did he fight and protect for? What happened after he's injured again in ep43? Why did he go to moon with Archangel? What uniform did he wear after ep45?

I watched GSD. So don't make something like I didn't watch so and so just because I have another perception about other matters...

Let's see.

Athrun was injured on board the Archangel.

Were they fighting for Orb or for Lacus?

No way are they fighting for Orb, those Orb ships were also there to see to the destruction of that main gun of the Requiem. So therefore, they're just support in case things get a little hairy. Also, they had to face the Minerva, and had to support the Eternal, so basically, it left Orb to fight their own fight for them.

Archangel has all its crew members decked out in Orb military outfits, to which even a simple Orb MS mechanic could actually ask why the hell are they wearing Orb uniforms? An ensign from SEED suddenly changing into...a lieutenant general?! Yeah, right. It makes perfect sense. I have a Kira Orb ID pic to support this.

So you mean to say, if they were fighting for Orb, technically speaking, Orb was already into the war before Yuna decided to entrust Orb to EAF custody? So "neutral" Orb was already fighting in a war that they have an ideal wherein they should not participate in?!

It would make them the hypocrite of all hypocrites then. =.=;;

Why did Athrun head back to the PLANTs? Yes, probably to check back on something there, he could still have some influence...but he promised Cagalli that he would be back if Orb could stand on its own 2 feet again, presumably having Cagalli rein in all those crazy emirs in, and not let them out of her control. He didn't go back to ZAFT in order to protect Orb or its ideals, he wanted to go to ZAFT to protect Cagalli. In other words, it was only of a personal nature.

Can you be more specific about which episode she did not wear her ring? Of course, I know but I want to know how much you know.

That was when they were to send off the Archangel to space to stop Dullindal's reign of terror.

I'm sorry to object you here. According to Fukuda's latest interview in special Animedia January 2006, he seriously asked everyone to watch the Final Plus.

It was basically ep 50 with just a few minor tweaks into it. And made GSD even worse in my eyes.

??????

Fukuda made them do it.

Fans > merchants > Sunrise > Fukuda

Technically speaking, if Fukuda was really serious about making GSD teh bomb and not the bomb, it would be the other way around. So even if fans scream bloody murder, merchants scream bloody murder, and Sunrise screams bloody hell, Fukuda is still the one who's making them scream. Get it?

Well, your so-called confusion special is part of their GSD DVD Final. To me and other fans, this special is the correction to their original Ep50. Some people said this was the revised ep50 or new ep51.

What exactly did they correct? So they could please other fans? They actually harmed some of the fanbase (in terms of Shinn's fans who knew that hotheaded Shinn would not take this with the pilot of the Freedom just like that).

All right, why not just wait for the director's new interview again. I am not the predictor for Fukuda so he may surprise me again. Who knows.

Yes, then spout some utter BS like the Super DRAGOONs actually work via psychic waves, Lacus was actually Haman Kahn's 10th avatar, Dullindal was actually Shinn's dad, Savior was actually used again in Gaia (that's why it was red), and Neo (sorry I refuse to call him Mwu) actually had a brain transplant and that brain was Mwu's.

Do you mean how do I know he's telling us something thru OPs and Eds in Final Plus? He's the one who serious said he directed the Final Plus in his latest interview so it's legitimate to say he directed/made/created the GSD Final Plus as well as Ops and Eds.

So? I saw Tomoe Yukishiro in that something something ED of Rurouni Kenshin and did she revive? No.

Isn't Rey and Shin looked friendly to each other in the last OP?

They were actually looking angry at each other. And what's the reason for having them face each other anyway? I thought Kira was the "good guy" and Shinn was the "bad guy"? And why Destroy? Rey wasn't the one who destroyed Destroy, or had anything to do with Stellar.

Anyway, are we in the same topic here?

Yes.

Are you talking about Fukuda here? I only knew the latest news about him being a shoujo-manga lover/reader/addicter. I consider it funny to know about it.

Yes. And being the avid shoujo manga fanatic that he is he could actually see that there is still some sense in shoujo manga, even though how fluffy.

Oh, I see. No, Morosowa did not compare any relationship with ShinxLunamaria. She actually talked about each couple in separate question during her interview. Nothing about her saying who's better than who. I like to stay neutrual for the disccusion about ShinxLunamaria; especially it's not in this topic.

I recall her saying that Shinn Lunamaria relationship was more real than Athrun Cagalli.

I did not ignore the instances. I actually have already replied. Did you see it?

Really?

As for your statement about "war comrades", Fukuda may say later that he proofs to everyone that Athrun and Cagalli love each other and will be together in his next interview. At that time, will you accept what he says? But, as I said before, I am not the predictor so he may surprise me so who knows.

Well, of course. But I do not trust Fukuda.

I am surprised about your intrepretation. Your interpretation about "But the fact that their hands only overlapped each other means that the love/connection they once shared is fading" is hard to convince everyone here. If they want to show their love's fading, there's no need to create this new OP couples cutscene.

They had to create it so that fans would still keep hoping. Sigh.

If they want us to pay attention to this fading couple, they should have created an individual OP cutscene rather than mixed them with KiraxLacus who obviously the confirmed couple. I've read a lot of shoujo-manga. The gesture we saw about their reaching and overlapping hands usually is illustrating a very deeply-in-love couple and lovers.

I just said my take on it. You have your take on it, and I have mine. AsuMey fan cannot get together with AsuCaga fan on certain things. OK?

And for the Kira Lacus thing, Kira was looking kind of expressionless when he walked off with Lacus and Lacus was the one actually leaning against him as they walked off, holding his arm. What's up with that?

She's in Athrun harem's OP cutscene. Yes, she's there to show Athrun's surrounded by women.

She wasn't put there without a reason. Athrun had connections with Meer, Lunamaria, and Cagalli. Meer was a deep connection because he actually cried over her death. Cagalli, very obvious. Lunamaria...let's just say she put him right back on track. Meyrin...well, she saved Athrun's life, at the expense of everything else...

Athrun had connections with all the women in the harem scene. It wasn't JUST a harem scene.

Also, hasn't the GSD Flet's 120% explained to us that the scene with Meyrin and Athrun together did not mean she was the winner, and other character even still have a chance? Have you really read all posts in this thread?

Are you pertaining to the little caricatures showcasing all characters in chibi form?