Psycho-Pass - Episode 22 [END] Discussion / Poll

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Realistically speaking, Sybil has to die, but it's not something that can be rushed and properly resolved in just one ep.

Sibyl doesn't have to be taken down for the plot to matter. If Akane had decided on some sort of rebellion against it, such as getting the truth to dissidents, or any action (rather than just words) symbolizing Sibyl's days being numbered, or even simply escaping with Kogami, then that would have been an improvement. Instead, she just went along with it, believing that a better society resulting from Sibyl's own manipulation will eventually end it. That's disappointingly passive for somebody supposedly growing during the storyline.

[creb]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Sibyl doesn't have to be taken down for the plot to matter. If Akane had decided on some sort of rebellion against it, such as getting the truth to dissidents, or any action (rather than just words) symbolizing Sibyl's days being numbered, or even simply escaping with Kogami, then that would have been an improvement. Instead, she just went along with it, believing that a better society resulting from Sibyl's own manipulation will eventually end it. That's disappointingly passive for somebody supposedly growing during the storyline.

From my perspective, that was the most grown up response she could have done. Going off with Kogami, being a rebel, etc, etc, is the work of the young. And naive. We all go through that phase. Eventually, most of us grow out of it.

[carcanclaw]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

But it's personality is malicious even if you don't consider it evil

I'm not sure if it is though. In a society where individuality is paramount, like most of the Western world, we are conditioned to see symbols of cold and calculating authority as inherently threatening to our way of life. Sybil clearly believes that the ends justify the means, and is very unfeeling and efficient about keeping the peace, to the point where we see it as actively antagonistic. If it hadn't killed Kagari, many more people would have died due to mass panic.

It's also worth noting that, if Makishima had been captured and integrated, it would have prevented any other asymptomatic individual from being able to follow in his footsteps. So his death, while satisfying to those he wronged, may ultimately allow other criminals like him to continue to operate outside of the law.

[GoldenLand]

The good:

- This was pulled off well, with good direction. The fight scene in particular was very well done.

- Makishima was handled quite well overall this ep (although I suspect the criticisms about how he shouldn't have even been in this story arc are valid). Good expressions, voice acting and nuance. It was interesting to see the contrast between him and Kougami, with Makishima in a way seeming desperate for a connection with him, while Kougami was fairly straightforward about just wanting him dead.

- I have to admire Akane for grabbing onto the side of the van and shooting out the tire! That's some dedication. But really, anyone doing that should have expected to die...

- The Yayoi/Shion confirmation scene, and I like what they were saying about the changes to the department and the need for different sorts of people.

- Sybil turned out to be more sensible in this ep than they seemed, as they realised that the secrecy couldn't go on forever.

- It was nice to see Gino actually looking happy. (OTOH, he had to go through a sudden personality shift to do so...)

- It's interesting and probably good that the series has shown that taking down Sybil the way that Akane wants is not something that can be fully resolved in just this length of time. However...has there really been any progress?

The bad:

- Nothing really changed. Sybil may even have a leg up in that it's observing Akane to gain data on how people might learn to accept them. Also, with all the characters getting shifted into each other's roles, everything seems pointless. The plot hasn't really gone anywhere. It feels more like a prequel to the real plot of getting rid of Sybil, explaining some of the characters' backstories but not moving things along. If there's a sequel in the works it would make more sense.

- Kougami changing his mind after working with Akane and going after Makishima with the gun at the end felt a little odd. Makishima was injured and might have died on his own...Was it worth it for Kougami to jeopardise his own safety by shooting him? Granted, it's not as if Akane told him about the deal she made, so he probably had no real expectation that he could return to a non-killed-by-Sybil life. I suppose it makes sense if he had no intention of going along with Akane and merely capturing Makishima, though. As people have pointed out, he may have got the best ending in the series! Off on a boat to somewhere that isn't Japan. He's definitely got the skills to be a success at whatever he wants to do. A pity he doesn't know the truth about Sybil, though, because it means he can't just leak the info to other countries.

- Akane is looking pretty miserable. It's completely understandable, but damn, ever since she found out the truth about Sybil she's been thoroughly changed and unhappy. I would have liked a better outcome for her. Still, it's only two months after all that horrible stuff happened, and she was nice enough to Gino. And Gino is completely right that Akane is the one they need to be worrying about. How could she be expected to be back to her normal cheerfulness levels when she's been through what she has?

- I also feel iffy about Akane's choices here. It would have been nice to see her actually planning, or at least thinking "I'll look for an opening to defeat the system" even if she hadn't found a good way yet. We could assume that she is thinking that way, but we could also reasonably assume that she isn't. The sort of justice she was talking about in this ep appears to be the type where society has to evolve to become perfect in order for Sybil to be switched off - where Kougami said that if everyone thought the way she did, there'd be no need for Sybil - and if that's the case, she's going to be waiting forever. She's still very idealistic, yet she's also become very jaded. Is she really going to hold out for her own perfect picture of justice, or is she going to actively seek out a future without Sybil? It's hard to know how to read her here.

- The Yayoi/Shion scene. It feels really, really cheap for the series to have neglected those two characters and their interactions so badly, and yet to shove them into an after-sex scene in the last episode so that people would go "yay, lesbians!". That's not good enough, to skimp on their scenes like this. They should have paid some more attention to those characters before. Lazy, lazy writing.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by creb

From my perspective, that was the most grown up response she could have done. Going off with Kogami, being a rebel, etc, etc, is the work of the young. And naive. We all go through that phase. Eventually, most of us grow out of it.

My thoughts exactly. You can't fight the whole world and at times just have pick your battles.

Besides what is Akane suppose to do with the system constantly watching her?

[mechalord]

lol... love it. To be continued in some form. Story comes full circle.


Tales of Sybil Tokyo. Next round? Who's the main character?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by mechalord

lol... love it. To be continued in some form.


Tales of Sybil Tokyo. Next round? Who's the main character?

I think the new recruit might be the one Akane was saying would pull the plug...after all she said that her and Gino were responsible for her getting her job.

[Quadratic]

Originally Posted by Quadratic

I'm betting one internet cookie that they won't destroy Sibyl, and if there is a "good" scenario, then the most that would happen is a change in culture to rely more on themselves but it'll still be used.

The last few of episodes had me wavering a little, and I thought at least one brain would be added (Makishima or Akane), but surprise, surprise, neither were added.

That was quite a somber ending, but at the same time I found it rather refreshing that it actually ended the way it did. No deus ex machina, no naive/reckless actions to shake the entire society then not bother following it up.
The world moves on, the old generation leaves and the new generation takes over. Adapt to the changes in society, or be left behind.
It's too bad Gino doesn't have a kid so Sibyl can torture every passing generation on his family line .

Also, Makishima running through the fields gave me some Death Note ending vibes (scenic-wise, that is).

I do wish there'll be a second season (and more), though I'm doubting it .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by carcanclaw

I'm not sure if it is though. In a society where individuality is paramount, like most of the Western world, we are conditioned to see symbols of cold and calculating authority as inherently threatening to our way of life. Sybil clearly believes that the ends justify the means, and is very unfeeling and efficient about keeping the peace,

No it's not. Makishima came way too close to ending it all - twice - to make that claim.

And that's if you forget how they deal with asymptomatic criminals. Well, I say asymptomatic, but by any reasonable critieria, "is murdering someone right now" would be a pretty serious symptom.

Originally Posted by hilly

Well,the most impact things that I got form this is when Akane tell Kogami rather the law protect the people,it is the people that create and protect the law.The feeling of justice although faint and easily crushed by anger and hate..it is still there..

When Akane say to Sybil system that someday the system will be shut down,I think she meant that human will always change into something better that before.For example,long ago,the king's govern is absolute but now democracy is more often found in most country.
Akane just don't know what is the better solution apart from Sybil system yet,just like old time people live in the tyranny of a absolute king that haven't think of a better society....

Yeah, but in many cases, it took people willing to just kill the King (or at least destroy the system) first, worry about the social upheaval later.

[Daisu]

It would have been better if Akane sent a coded message to Kogami's Mentor or that community board of philosophers with hint about the exact nature sybil system... it would be kind~of getting the ball rolling for an example.

[Gohan78]

The ending is not terrible by any means but I think that Gen chose the safest route here.
Makishima is dead, Kogami got his revenge and escaped, Gino was demoted to enforcer as expected, and finally Sibyl still stands.
I wish he would have taken a more definite stance on Sibyl's fate. For instance, Makishima is dead but he managed to infect the crop. Or Makishima's brain is added to the Sibyl System but it starts plotting its own demise.
I don't blame Akane for not going public on Sibyl. She doesn't have any proof after all. But I wish we had seen at least the seed of Sibyl's demise planted.

What I did like was the cyclical nature of the ending, with Akane now in Ginoza's role as the veteran inspector, Gino in Kogami/Masaoka's role as the former inspector turned enforcer, and the new recruit Mika in Akane's role. I like this kind of ending because it shows the progression of the main character from the naive rookie to the senpai who now must teach the new girl.

[ookamigirl]

Kogami vs Makishima! That was what I was waiting for!
Akane's hope for Kogami was just amazing to watch.
She really trusted that guy in every way.
Kogami - Akane team really was the best.
Makishima was the type of guy who never quits.
He just needed someone to stop him.
That Sybil system is truly a disturbing thing when you see its true form.
Pretty good final episode.

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

What I liked about the ending:



2. There wasn't any element that felt particularly hard-to-swallow at a basic believability level.

Ill have to re watch to see what kinda hold maki had kogami arm in. It looked like a back mounted kimura.

Anyways no in real life if you did what kogami did your arm would be broken in two.

[cyth]

I think that living in this day and age when Arabic springs and whatnot are happening around the world, when change is sometimes too bright to look at, this ending will surely be underwhelming to many people. But even though nothing really changed for this generation of inspectors, change is in the air. The cycle of endless recurrence continues, but things gradually change. The ending is as realistic as it could've been.

What strikes me is Sibyl's arogance in thinking that people will never shut down their lights, as if their current arrangement wasn't put into place by the will of the people. Sibyl's existence is actually very fragile. Wasn't Senguji the one to mention that brains can live for up to 140 years? That's how long the system has if it doesn't find any new criminally asymptomatic people to take in, then its ability to cope with change starts to decline. Akane is right. She knows the very best she can do is to struggle on with her way of looking at the world and making things better simply by expressing her will in small ways. Sibyl's arrogant because it thinks it can quantify all that. I'm seriously reminded here of so many engineer-types from the tech world who think they can fundamentally fix the world's problems by writing some code, as if everything depends on their ability to come up with a solution and that the collective of human thought cannot produce anything worthwhile without their smarts, even though they're the geeks who need to get in touch with reality.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by cyth

I think that living in this day and age when Arabic springs and whatnot are happening around the world, when change is sometimes too bright to look at, this ending will surely be underwhelming to many people.

This is why I find all of the claims of "This is the most mature and realistic ending" a bit odd. What's immature and unrealistic about toppling extremely corrupt and unjust regimes? The Arab Spring would seem to suggest otherwise, imo.

And I have to say I find it odd indeed for an American to talk about how mature this ending is. I guess America owes its very existence to George Washington and Benjamin Franklin being decidedly immature men.

History is replete with examples of successful revolutions. So what's so 'immature' or 'unrealistic' about the idea of starting a successful revolution?

And even putting aside the American Revolution, we've seen numerous social upheavals in America's history where old, corrupt systems of government were pushed aside for newer and fairer ones. Thankfully, Martin Luther King Jr. was also an " immature" man...


But I guess Sybil Japan can take comfort in Akane's "maturity", and the continuation of a ruthless and deeply flawed/corrupt system of governance. Mind you, I've honestly grown somewhat tired of rehashing all of Sybil's flaws over and over and over again, so I don't intend to do so yet again right now. I once made a reply to Quadratic where I listed off many of those flaws, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find that post. If I find it later, I'll just link to it here in this thread.

I will link to this, however. My idea there might not be perfect, but I think it goes to show that it's possible to conceive of ways of gradually taking down Sybil and transitioning to a better system.

But even though nothing really changed for this generation of inspectors, change is in the air.

Here is where I disagree with you. I see little hope of change here. My impression is that the only person who knows the truth about Sybil is Akane. And Akane has decided that she'd rather be an Inspector fighting crime than a revolutionary trying to dispose of an evil form of government (and I use "evil" here because that seems to be how Akane herself views Sybil). Other people living in Sibyl Japan have significantly less reason to oppose Sybil than Akane does, so if Akane doesn't actively oppose it, then who does?

And it's not like we get a scene of Akane planning Sybil's slow, gradual decline and eventually demise. She's just basically hoping that somebody else will one day do the dirty work for her.

Much like what a couple other reviewers mentioned, I'd be more pleased with this ending if I saw someone somewhere at least planting the seed of change. But who's planting the seed of change here?

Akane isn't even negotiating with Sybil for more humane treatment of latent criminals, for example. What exactly has changed?

[Ultramarinus]

Not just any revolution will lead to a better government though. Take for example, the two most famous revolutions: Russian and French. Both ended up with many millions of dead and even more despotic regimes till they too collapsed. OTOH, Britain for example, had no revolution and ended up more democratic and libertarian eventually with no blood shed in the process.

Still, I too think that Sybil needed to be overthrown right now and Akane should have tried it. The system made the law the means to an end when it should have the law above its own needs. It goes against its own reason of existence when it employs murderers as the governors.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is why I find all of the claims of "This is the most mature and realistic ending" a bit odd. What's immature and unrealistic about toppling extremely corrupt and unjust regimes? The Arab Spring would seem to suggest otherwise, imo.

I don't really have an issue with the "nothing has changed ending" if that was the ending. If the ending was really dark with Sybil still in control.

But instead we have this wishy washy ending with sybil in control and Akane saying but things will eventually change (except besides her words we don't really see any of that happening).

I think the series is trying to have it both ways which doesn't work for me.

I guess the ultimate message was change isn't going to happen by someone like Makishima or overthrowing the system, it can only happen slowly over time for it to work. But again Gen even left it pretty open whether Akane or the sybil system was right. So we are left with maybe it will change, maybe it won't.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is why I find all of the claims of "This is the most mature and realistic ending" a bit odd. What's immature and unrealistic about toppling extremely corrupt and unjust regimes? The Arab Spring would seem to suggest otherwise, imo.
[...]
History is replete with examples of successful revolutions. So what's so 'immature' or 'unrealistic' about the idea of starting a successful revolution?

Lately, I've shifted to a more conservative stance, just to get that out of the way.

Even though a revolution is bright, as I've described it, it brings very little systematic, real change. Leaders get taken down and replaced, but the mentality of the people may not. Resources may get redistributed, before the top brass and the rich accumulate it back after some time. Especially after witnessing how my countrymen laid all the blame for the decline of our economic viability on their leaders without sharing it, I just don't see what's going to be so different for the next government coalition. And let's not talk about the U.S. and how much change Obama brought to the table, as advertised throughout his campaign.

The way I see it, real change happens when people change. That a defiant individual such as Akane is allowed to exist signals that other people such as herself may emerge in the future. The small glimmer of hope is exactly that. It is really up to ourselves to grab it and transform it into a wave of change.

Also, let's be realistic. Would Makishima bring change if he succeeded with hyper-oats production sabotage? No. He wanted to see the world burn because it wasn't up to his standard. His actions would be painted as terrorist and the general public would be none the wiser. Akane would refuse to take Sibyl down because she knows the public wouldn't have profited from that. She knows it was those same people that put Sibyl into power in the first place. Forget that psychopaths are actually running the show, electing a computer to take over their share of responsibilities is entirely their fault. It's not even a question of efficiency and ego, it is a question of relinquishing control over their own lives. Sibyl taking over was their own damn fault.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Predictable and disappointing ending. A full circle ending like this one works wonders for character-driven show, but is unsuited to a story-driven show like Psycho-pass. It makes it seem like the events of the series were ultimately pointless. Absolutely nothing has changed, life goes on. There is only a small glimmer of hope society will change.

I am particularly disappointed in Akane. It was obvious for a while that she wouldn't be able to change the system, but I didn't expect her to give in to Sibyl. She's even unwittingly helping them further their plans. Although she despises them, she has no attention to be the one to pull the plug. It turns out Sibyl's assessment of her was completely correct. I expected so much more from her
I thought she would at least continue a silent struggle, waiting for the right time to strike, swearing to one day bring Sibyl to justice.

My problem is actually not so much with the ending as it is with the last third of the show (ep 16 onwards). Imo it was a big mistake to keep Makishima in the show. They should have gotten rid of him back in episode 17 and focus the narrative solely on Sibyl. It would have been a lot more interesting. Instead, they made Makishima the center of the universe (everything revolved around him and the Sibyl plot took a backseat) and dragged his inevitable demise on. It could have been interesting if his rivalry with Kogami had been written better, but it was so one-sided it was boring. Kogami only wanted to kill him and didn't give a damn about the man himself. They should have perhaps played out the Akane vs Makishima angle instead. As it was, I fail to see why they had to keep him around so long. It only hurt the show.

The other weak aspect of the show was its characters. They were all too underdeveloped, save for Akane and Makishima. The show would have benefited from fleshing them out. I certainly would have liked to find out about their backstory. Even Kogami, who was a major character, remained fairly one-dimensional.

Overall, I still enjoyed following this show, but it had the potential to be a lot better than this. So yep, disappointed. But yay lesbians!

By the way, the new inspector is the girl back from Oryo's arc, the one Yayoi comforted. Seems like she turned out okay. And thus starts Yayoi's harem...

You do realize that if she screws up her cards, Sybil will immediately throw her into a detainment facility where she will never hope to escape from, until she plays her cards right, she can only act as a beacon of hope guiding newcommers along the right path and as an insight into the dark underbelly of the sybil system.

Nobody says she can't spread rumors about what the sybil system is, until the time is right.

If you really wanted this thing to end in one blow she could have called the military, that or find a quantum enthusiast.

[fict_ticious]

I was hoping the knife fight would have extended into the grain fields.

This end is pretty Gen Urobuchi. Guy doesn't really like the old hero archetype or altruism and to usher in an age of "no more heroes" doesn't surprise me. I usually like the kind of ends that parallel their beginnings but it didn't make up for such a weak conclusion.