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Rising Dragon · 2013-04-17, 22:56

The politics wouldn't let them get away with that, though. Others could still claim that they were in violation of the Junius Treaty by merely possessing the Gundam.

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-17, 23:00

Considering nobody ever says anything about Freedom being in violation of the treaty when it first pops up (probably a good 20 eps before Durandal himself starts ignoring it) maybe it wasn't technically a violation to have it, since the Orb nation never actively used it.

Rising Dragon · 2013-04-17, 23:05

By the time the Freedom finally showed up, the treaty had been violated to hell and back. Calling them out on it wouldn't have done much good at that point.

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-17, 23:08

Would it really? Zaft had yet to violate it when Angel Down was starting, but at no point was them using an illegally powered Mobile Suit part of their list of crimes, despite it being a potential nail in the coffin that Athrun wouldn't be able to ignore.

Rising Dragon · 2013-04-17, 23:10

Yeah, still wouldn't have done any good. The damage had already been done; treaty violated, Blue Cosmos still operating, so on and so forth. The point I've been making is that overall? The Junius Treaty was useless.

monster · 2013-04-18, 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

By the time the Freedom finally showed up, the treaty had been violated to hell and back. Calling them out on it wouldn't have done much good at that point.

This is basically it. Whether or not Orb could've been found in violation of the treaty just by having the Freedom within its territory is ultimately a non-issue as the Freedom was never discovered prior to the second war.

Skye629 · 2013-04-18, 03:53

[QUOTE=Aquaman OS;4641209]Again, Eternal wasn't a Warship. It was a mobile base for Freedom Justice and Meteors. Which is why its very lightly armed with only a single beam cannon and few missile launchers (though it can use the Meteor's as makeshift cannons)

The Dom's were built in the factory though. That was shown. SF and IJ seemed to be built on the Eternal, since they were already on board when Eternal had to make an emergency break for it when Zaft found them. Although they could have used the factory resources and simply brought them over to the ship since it was right next door to the factory.

The meteor's however were already in place when Lacus first returned to Eternal mid Seed Destiny, before they were at the factory (which was located by an abandoned colony while Eternal was out in the middle

The SF and IJ were partially completed when Lacus and Co jacked them (presumably after the frame had been completed and the reactors installed), they only needed to finish it up

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

But given Lacus resources its a possibility for the whole island to be a select facility.

And how would she be able to build a MILITARY FACILITY on ORB TERRITORY?

The construction was obviously contracted at some point, before or after the events of SEED is debatable though

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

And what exactly would that power plant consist of exactly?

AN ARC REACTOR OBVIOUSLY

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Concerning the Destiny, Legend, S. Freedom, and I.Justice's power plants. I was under the impression that a hyper deuterion reactor combined a nuclear fission reactor with a deuterion battery system. That's what the gundam wiki's said for the longest time. Here's the link http://gundam.wiki.com/wiki/Hyper-Deuterion_Nuclear_Reactor.

They also had the N-jammers, its impossible for any Nuclear tech to function without those

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Would it really? Zaft had yet to violate it when Angel Down was starting, but at no point was them using an illegally powered Mobile Suit part of their list of crimes, despite it being a potential nail in the coffin that Athrun wouldn't be able to ignore.

Uh last I checked the whole dang war started up again because "ZAFT" dropped Junius 7 onto earth, to hell with the treaty

Gundamx · 2013-04-18, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Besides, sharing ORB technology makes it easier for them to land a high paying job, especially as they aren't ZAFT citizens

Like i said traitors
So after what happened in 11/ in USA >>>if scientists leave USA to work on other country that USA enemy like North Korea (or could be enemy like China/Russia) and give them all USA secret weapon info for high salary what will that make them?

One word = traitors

ZAFT and Feds break the treaty for what they they believe their own country future benefit while Orb scientists break it for their own pocket benefit

Destined_Fate · 2013-04-18, 07:51

Doesn't matter, the only one that cancharge them as Traitors is ORB as they did it willingly. Cagalli could have demanded they be returned and tried but that would only make ZAFT and ORB hate her. So she literally had no power or authority over what they had been doing at ZAFT. Especially since so many joined ZAFT and didn't return to ORB after the war ended.

Call them that all you like, doesn't change a thing.

Gundamx · 2013-04-18, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Doesn't matter, the only one that cancharge them as Traitors is ORB as they did it willingly. Cagalli could have demanded they be returned and tried but that would only make ZAFT and ORB hate her. So she literally had no power or authority over what they had been doing at ZAFT. Especially since so many joined ZAFT and didn't return to ORB after the war ended.

Call them that all you like, doesn't change a thing.

Yep they are traitors who sold out their own mother country willingly for money.
That's a fact you can't deny

kaito-kid · 2013-04-18, 09:15

ehmm.. When did any of this happen? ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT? ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??

Gundamx · 2013-04-18, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

ehmm.. When did any of this happen? ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT? ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??

-ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT
In destiny first episode
(That why Cagalli was in PLANTs)

-ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT??
No idea.

kaito-kid · 2013-04-18, 12:43

She was in PLANT to talk about the increasing militarization of ZAFT (the new Gundams and other prototypes) and the kind of effect it might have on the political climate. I didn't hear anything about any ORB scientists.. So again, what are you two talking about?

S.Freedom · 2013-04-18, 13:00

Nope, Cagalli didn't even know about the new gundams until they started rampaging through armory one*. If you notice several mechanics refer to her as hime-sama and seem ashamed by the fact they're working for ZAFT. I'd suggest you rewatch the first episode if you don't remember it.

*Though it does raise the question of how the EA managed to find out in enough time to plan and execute a mission to capture them. Much less have traitors or infiltrators in place to help Stella, Auel, and Sting.

Gundamx · 2013-04-18, 13:50

EA was pressuring Cagalli to stop ZAFT from using ORB scientists

kaito-kid · 2013-04-18, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Nope, Cagalli didn't even know about the new gundams until they started rampaging through armory one*. If you notice several mechanics refer to her as hime-sama and seem ashamed by the fact they're working for ZAFT. I'd suggest you rewatch the first episode if you don't remember it.

I guess I need to watch it again, I don't recall this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

*Though it does raise the question of how the EA managed to find out in enough time to plan and execute a mission to capture them. Much less have traitors or infiltrators in place to help Stella, Auel, and Sting.

I don't think they were suposed to be a big secret. In Destiny Astray the main character (a photographer) visits the presentation of the new ZGMF-x models and this is before the armory one incident.

Spoiler for pic:

S.Freedom · 2013-04-18, 14:36

I suppose you have a point... It just seems odd to me that ZAFT would go out of it's way to announce something like new gundams. It's almost like they're asking for the EA to try something.

Though considering Durandal's end goal I wouldn't put it past him to release the info precisely because he wanted the EA to try something. There are just to many things happening in close proximity to each other for it to be one big coincidence imo.

Destined_Fate · 2013-04-18, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Yep they are traitors who sold out their own mother country willingly for money.
That's a fact you can't deny

Your point? They'll never be punished for it anyway as ORB is the only one that can demand such a thing and they know better than that since it would be a PR Nightmare with ZAFT and the people of ORB who don't want to see their kin suffer any more just because they wanted to make a living elsewhere.

That and it would be way too expensive to put all of them on trial as ZAFT took in many of them.

S.Freedom · 2013-04-18, 16:20

Why would it be a PR nightmare to charge traitors as traitors?

I'd think it would be more of a nightmare not to charge them as traitors. As it would only cause others to think they'd get away with it. Or that it was ok to commit treason.

Nor are you addressing the fact it was illegal for ZAFT to be accepting there help in the first place.

Skye629 · 2013-04-18, 19:25

I dont see how Orb scientists helping ZAFT is a big deal, Orb and ZAFT never came into direct conflict until Destiny

And the closest thing to war between them during SEED was during the final battle where Orb units were part of the Three Ship Alliance, which was more or less a rogue group consisting of defectors from all sides led by the Clyne faction

ZAFT was never a true enemy of Orb until Chairman Zala decided shoot the earth with Genesis (endangering everything on earth in the process)

2013-04-17, 22:56	Link #6441
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	The politics wouldn't let them get away with that, though. Others could still claim that they were in violation of the Junius Treaty by merely possessing the Gundam. __________________

2013-04-17, 23:05	Link #6443
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	By the time the Freedom finally showed up, the treaty had been violated to hell and back. Calling them out on it wouldn't have done much good at that point. __________________

2013-04-17, 23:10	Link #6445
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Yeah, still wouldn't have done any good. The damage had already been done; treaty violated, Blue Cosmos still operating, so on and so forth. The point I've been making is that overall? The Junius Treaty was useless. __________________

2013-04-18, 09:15	Link #6451
kaito-kid As I make you stop, think Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Europe - The Netherlands Age: 34	ehmm.. When did any of this happen? ORB scientists betraying ORB and giving ORB technology to ZAFT? ZAFT accepting ORB Naturals into PLANT?? __________________

2013-04-18, 12:43	Link #6453
kaito-kid As I make you stop, think Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Europe - The Netherlands Age: 34	She was in PLANT to talk about the increasing militarization of ZAFT (the new Gundams and other prototypes) and the kind of effect it might have on the political climate. I didn't hear anything about any ORB scientists.. So again, what are you two talking about? __________________

2013-04-17, 23:00	Link #6442
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Considering nobody ever says anything about Freedom being in violation of the treaty when it first pops up (probably a good 20 eps before Durandal himself starts ignoring it) maybe it wasn't technically a violation to have it, since the Orb nation never actively used it.

2013-04-17, 23:08	Link #6444
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Would it really? Zaft had yet to violate it when Angel Down was starting, but at no point was them using an illegally powered Mobile Suit part of their list of crimes, despite it being a potential nail in the coffin that Athrun wouldn't be able to ignore.

2013-04-18, 07:51	Link #6449
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Doesn't matter, the only one that cancharge them as Traitors is ORB as they did it willingly. Cagalli could have demanded they be returned and tried but that would only make ZAFT and ORB hate her. So she literally had no power or authority over what they had been doing at ZAFT. Especially since so many joined ZAFT and didn't return to ORB after the war ended. Call them that all you like, doesn't change a thing.

2013-04-18, 13:00	Link #6454
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	Nope, Cagalli didn't even know about the new gundams until they started rampaging through armory one. If you notice several mechanics refer to her as hime-sama and seem ashamed by the fact they're working for ZAFT. I'd suggest you rewatch the first episode if you don't remember it. Though it does raise the question of how the EA managed to find out in enough time to plan and execute a mission to capture them. Much less have traitors or infiltrators in place to help Stella, Auel, and Sting.

2013-04-18, 13:50	Link #6455
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	EA was pressuring Cagalli to stop ZAFT from using ORB scientists

2013-04-18, 14:36	Link #6457
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	I suppose you have a point... It just seems odd to me that ZAFT would go out of it's way to announce something like new gundams. It's almost like they're asking for the EA to try something. Though considering Durandal's end goal I wouldn't put it past him to release the info precisely because he wanted the EA to try something. There are just to many things happening in close proximity to each other for it to be one big coincidence imo.

2013-04-18, 16:20	Link #6459
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	Why would it be a PR nightmare to charge traitors as traitors? I'd think it would be more of a nightmare not to charge them as traitors. As it would only cause others to think they'd get away with it. Or that it was ok to commit treason. Nor are you addressing the fact it was illegal for ZAFT to be accepting there help in the first place.

2013-04-18, 19:25	Link #6460
Skye629 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	I dont see how Orb scientists helping ZAFT is a big deal, Orb and ZAFT never came into direct conflict until Destiny And the closest thing to war between them during SEED was during the final battle where Orb units were part of the Three Ship Alliance, which was more or less a rogue group consisting of defectors from all sides led by the Clyne faction ZAFT was never a true enemy of Orb until Chairman Zala decided shoot the earth with Genesis (endangering everything on earth in the process)