Character Discussion - Lelouch

[bladeofdarkness]

whatever Sunrise might do later on
for the time being, lelouch is dead
thats what the writer and director wanted for an ending

if sunrise decides to butcher the story farther in the future, they can do that later on
anything could happen potentially
lelouch might be revealed to be in the hay cart
or he might be hiding under kallen's bed
but for the time being he is dead for good

[ac195]

Really? If the writer/director really wanted it that way... why the vague ending?

This will happen... or has happened...

Spoiler:

[bladeofdarkness]

there is no vague ending
lelouch is shown to die in one of the longest death scenes ever
including a life flash before his eyes montage, and the one he loves most crying over his dead body in a "dont you dare leave me" kind of way
this is NOT a vague ending
C.C's final line is not an indication that lelouch is with her
kallen and suzaku both are seen talking to him after his death (kallen in the epilouge, suzaku in the last PD)

and the "zero-requiem" DVD special that got released recently even went so far as to CHANGE THE ENDING into one where C.C says in a clear cut way that lelouch is dead and not with her

here is her new monologe

Originally Posted by CC

Final monologue - Zero Requiem DVD - C.C.

「1人の少年がいた。
"There was a boy."
彼は世界を変える力を得て、新たな秩序を打ち立てた。
"He obtained the power to change the world, to create a new order."
世界は彼を恐れ、憎んだ。
"The world was terrified of him, hated him."
しかし…、私は知っている。
"... But, I know."
彼が、微笑を浮かべて逝ったことを。
"He, who passed away with a smile." - note #1
成すべきことを成したものにしか知りえない、深い満足と共に去っていった事を。
????? - refer to note #2.
だから。これは悲劇ではないのだ。
"So. This is not a tragedy."
それでも時に、抗いようの無い哀しみと共に涙溢れる夜が来たのなら。
"And yet, at the time, the night came where I sobbed with a sadness I wouldn't resist."
私は謳おう。鎮魂の歌を。ゼロ･レクイエムを…
"I lament. A dirge. The Zero Requiem..." - note #3」

Notes
- (#1) 「彼が、微笑を浮かべて逝ったことを。」 is very literally "He, that passed away with a smile." - C.C. has confirmed Lelouch's death.
- (#2) I can't get this line to make sense, and two of my Japanese-learned friends translate it very differently. The general idea is that Lelouch's passing left a deep sense of fufillment that only Lelouch himself, or people close to him would understand.
- (#3) Not sure which word is more appropriate here, but it might have been "praise" rather than "lament".

there is no "vague ending"
word of god made that crystal clear almost a year ago
there is only wishful thinking on the part of people like you who didnt get the point about zero-requiem being about lelouch's atonement.
that lelouch died for a good fucking reason (he had much to atone FOR)
and that him being alive turns him into a huge hypocritical turd sandwich

[ac195]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

there is no vague ending
lelouch is shown to die in one of the longest death scenes ever
including a life flash before his eyes montage, and the one he loves most crying over his dead body in a "dont you dare leave me" kind of way
this is NOT a vague ending
C.C's final line is not an indication that lelouch is with her
kallen and suzaku both are seen talking to him after his death (kallen in the epilouge, suzaku in the last PD)

and the "zero-requiem" DVD special that got released recently even went so far as to CHANGE THE ENDING into one where C.C says in a clear cut way that lelouch is dead and not with her

here is her new monologe



there is no "vague ending"
word of god made that crystal clear almost a year ago
there is only wishful thinking on the part of people like you who didnt get the point about zero-requiem being about lelouch's atonement.
that lelouch died for a good fucking reason (he had much to atone FOR)
and that him being alive turns him into a huge hypocritical turd sandwich

That would be true... but what if he didn't have a choice in the matter? I'll still put my money on Sunrise resurrecting him. Hell, if Gundam Unicorn is any indication of how they'll act in the future... he'll be back... there's just too much money in it.

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!! I love you...yet I hate you just as much...

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by ac195

That would be true... but what if he didn't have a choice in the matter? I'll still put my money on Sunrise resurrecting him. Hell, if Gundam Unicorn is any indication of how they'll act in the future... he'll be back... there's just too much money in it.

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!! I love you...yet I hate you just as much...

then he'd STILL be ha hypocrite for not coming back, taking suzaku's mask from him, and spending the rest of HIS life living as zero with the weight of the world on his shoulders

[ac195]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

then he'd STILL be ha hypocrite for not coming back, taking suzaku's mask from him, and spending the rest of HIS life living as zero with the weight of the world on his shoulders

Or he could be doing something else trying to atone (sounds like a plot for a new CG movie/series!?).

IMO, living with the knowledge of what sins you've committed and spending an eternity to atone for it... sounds more fitting then just dying.

As for taking back the mask... why would he? If I was Lulu, giving Suzaku a means to keep his guilt in check and keeping him close to Nunnally sounds like win win to me. Even if Lulu did go back and put on the mask... he probably thinks that being able to be close to his sister again would be another sin... she'd also probably figure out it was him as well.

DAMN YOU SUNRISE!!! ... I'm still looking forward to Unicorn btw... damn... I just can't quit you... damn...

[Vampire]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

there is no vague ending
lelouch is shown to die in one of the longest death scenes ever
including a life flash before his eyes montage, and the one he loves most crying over his dead body in a "dont you dare leave me" kind of way
this is NOT a vague ending
C.C's final line is not an indication that lelouch is with her
kallen and suzaku both are seen talking to him after his death (kallen in the epilouge, suzaku in the last PD)

and the "zero-requiem" DVD special that got released recently even went so far as to CHANGE THE ENDING into one where C.C says in a clear cut way that lelouch is dead and not with her

here is her new monologe



there is no "vague ending"
word of god made that crystal clear almost a year ago
there is only wishful thinking on the part of people like you who didnt get the point about zero-requiem being about lelouch's atonement.
that lelouch died for a good fucking reason (he had much to atone FOR)
and that him being alive turns him into a huge hypocritical turd sandwich

I have to admit it that he's officially dead, however those writers are true asshats for not letting us intercept it in our own way. So, in an effort to calm the masses, I'll present you four alternative endings:
Ending 2
Ending 3
Ending 4
Ending 5
Personally, I think ending 4 would've made a sequel possible, but no.

[Meatrose]

Well, it doesn't really matter since Lelouch is just as dead as any character that has ever died in any story. Saying that Sunrise could decide to resurrect him in order to make more money... well, that's something that goes for every dead character in the history of storytelling, and it doesn't justify the act of bringing him back to life. Lelouch dying was the culmination and the entire point of his ZR. It was also what those who created the show and its characters wanted for their protagonist. They've even been stressing that point over and over again.

Any creator can decide to resurrect any of his or her characters someday by sinking so low as to resort to retconning. That doesn't change the fact the character is dead however. If I believed in god I could claim that my dead grandpa is not necessarily dead since god could decide to resurrect him someday since it lies withing his power to do so. That claim of mine wouldn't make my grandpa any less dead however. Lelouch is dead and that's all there is to it. Could Sunrise decide to screw Okouchi and Taniguchi over by resurrecting the character they created and ultimately killed off in order to make some more money? I guess so. George Lucas could also decide that he wanted to make some additional million dollars off of Star Wars and resurrect all the bad guys and rebuild the empire. All it takes is the act of retconning.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by Vampire

I have to admit it that he's officially dead, however those writers are true asshats for not letting us intercept it in our own way. So, in an effort to calm the masses, I'll present you four alternative endings:
Ending 2
Ending 3
Ending 4
Ending 5
Personally, I think ending 4 would've made a sequel possible, but no.

I've always liked this as a ending XD

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Vampire

I have to admit it that he's officially dead, however those writers are true asshats for not letting us intercept it in our own way. So, in an effort to calm the masses, I'll present you four alternative endings:
Ending 2
Ending 3
Ending 4
Ending 5
Personally, I think ending 4 would've made a sequel possible, but no.

you forgot one other possible ending

Spoiler for nice cart ending:

compact

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Meatrose

Well, it doesn't really matter since Lelouch is just as dead as any character that has ever died in any story. Saying that Sunrise could decide to resurrect him in order to make more money... well, that's something that goes for every dead character in the history of storytelling, and it doesn't justify the act of bringing him back to life. Lelouch dying was the culmination and the entire point of his ZR. It was also what those who created the show and its characters wanted for their protagonist. They've even been stressing that point over and over again.

I still don't know why the original broadcast was left it so open if that's what they wanted in the first place. If you leave yourself enough room to weasel your way out... I call shenanigans. To be honest the only reason to keep him dead is that they just ran out of ideas (not surprising with all the plot holes) and don't want to do anything more with the series.

Originally Posted by Meatrose

I guess so. George Lucas could also decide that he wanted to make some additional million dollars off of Star Wars and resurrect all the bad guys and rebuild the empire. All it takes is the act of retconning.

Hahaha, you forgot about the "remastering" of his original 3 films. I still get a good laugh at Hayden whatever standing next to Obi-wan and the rest at the end of Return of the Jedi.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Vampire

I have to admit it that he's officially dead, however those writers are true asshats for not letting us intercept it in our own way. So, in an effort to calm the masses, I'll present you four alternative endings:
Ending 2
Ending 3
Ending 4
Ending 5
Personally, I think ending 4 would've made a sequel possible, but no.

Ending 4, is that what I think it is at the end? No way, it couldn't be an ORBITAL ELEVATOR!

[Meatrose]

Originally Posted by ac195

I still don't know why the original broadcast was left it so open if that's what they wanted in the first place. If you leave yourself enough room to weasel your way out... I call shenanigans. To be honest the only reason to keep him dead is that they just ran out of ideas (not surprising with all the plot holes) and don't want to do anything more with the series.

Well, the ending didn't come off as open to me. Right after having watched the final episode I thought it was obvious that Lelouch was dead and gone. From a storytelling point of view nothing else made any sense. However, back then (before the creators came out and outright told us that Lelouch really is dead) I could still see how some people wanted to discuss theories that involved Lelouch surviving. =)

Originally Posted by ac195

Hahaha, you forgot about the "remastering" of his original 3 films. I still get a good laugh at Hayden whatever standing next to Obi-wan and the rest at the end of Return of the Jedi.

And about Hayden, yeah, that was an unnecessary edit but that was not the kind of retconning I was thinking about. What I meant was that George could decide to resurrect all dead characters and produce sequels in order to make more money off of his characters. Any creator can decide to do that with what he or she has created, but the possibility of future retconning doesn't make dead characters any less dead.

[SonOfHeaven]

Lelouch being alive? People make it seem like they saw Lelouch getting back up from the dead in all honestly. I didn't see all this "open ending" about Lelouch being alive. Seriously he's the cart driver? Back during the initial airing, I thought it was an simple case of gasping at straws and still is. Kallen and C.C were talking to Lelouch in the end and Suzaku in the last PD. Doesn't mean he's alive. All these theories about the code always came off as crap in my opinion. We have no idea on how codes work anyway as shown in the series. We never saw how receiving or getting rid of one worked.

If people want Lelouch to be alive. They might as well hope for an remake because him coming back wouldn't really make sense. Especially if he planned it as well.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by ac195

Hahaha, you forgot about the "remastering" of his original 3 films. I still get a good laugh at Hayden whatever standing next to Obi-wan and the rest at the end of Return of the Jedi.

After the whole prelogie that makes sense. I thought it was awesome actually, those who loved the prelogie, and Anakin played by Hayden got the remasterized version and for the old school lovers, they have the original version, simple as that.

On a side not Am I the only one thinking all of those pics "alternate ending" are ...ridiculous... apart from the comic one others would have make of Geass another anime in a whole bunch ofothers.
Thanks God, Taniguchi and Okouchi gave their anime an epic ending, way more powerful that those fanartists ideas.

[Revolutionist]

You guys don't seem to get it, it doesn't matter if he was stabbed, shot in the head, blown up and desintegrated by a Fleija. If there is enough demand for more CG Lelouch is coming back, unless Sunrise can come up with an equally awesome bastard character like him.
It's not like characters have never survived impossible situations.

Spoiler for Gundam SEED/DESTINY:

If you've seen Gundam SEED then you already know my example, Mwu La Flaga. His mobile suit took a direct positon cannon shot and it literally desintegrated, later his helmet was shown floating in space. Mwu then returns in Gundam SEED Destiny, but not after the helmet was removed in the movie compilations

In GS's case the writers had to go back in order to plant reasonable doubt regarding that character's death. However, in CG they did a good enough job of building that ambiguity that they don't need to go back and change scenes. Tbh all it would take is to make a movie compilation of R2 and show Lelouch driving the cart, or looking at his hand and seeing a code...

Nothing is impossible when it comes to fantasy.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

In GS's case the writers had to go back in order to plant reasonable doubt regarding that character's death. However, in CG they did a good enough job of building that ambiguity that they don't need to go back and change scenes. Tbh all it would take is to make a movie compilation of R2 and show Lelouch driving the cart, or looking at his hand and seeing a code... .

they MADE a compilation movie
they removed the scene that sparked the ambiguity in the first place and replaced it with a monologe by C.C saying that lelouch is dead for real
if you want a decleration of intent on the part of the writers, thats a pretty good one

[Xander]

The easy way out would be to create an alternate universe, if not actually a retelling, where Lelouch is alive and has a similar yet completely different set of adventures. Whether it would be worth watching or not is another matter.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by Vampire

I have to admit it that he's officially dead, however those writers are true asshats for not letting us intercept it in our own way. So, in an effort to calm the masses, I'll present you four alternative endings:
Ending 2
Ending 3
Ending 4
Ending 5
Personally, I think ending 4 would've made a sequel possible, but no.

OMG I LOVE ENDING 5!!! So adorable. But the artist should have

Spoiler for fanart:

Included a little violet-eyed C.C. as well.

Nothing is impossible when it comes to fantasy.

Hehe agreed.

And........I'm pissed. If the writers insist he's dead, why can't they AT LEAST SHOW HIM IN THE WORLD OF C!?

So we could see his face again. Or hear his current thoughts in spiritual form? Is that SO much to ask for!?

[Rising Dragon]

Because people in the World of C have no corporeal form?