(L) Druaga no Tou: Sword of Uruk (second season)

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'm very upset at Kaaya. I thought there was more reason other than "you might not come home if you proceed"

When you enter the tower of druaga you're already signing a contract that reads "there a very high change that I might be killed, especially on higher levels"

So for her to steal the key that everyone has fought so hard for and zap them back to ground level without giving any explanation is a cruel betrayal.

Think about how the party felt? They lost comrades and sacrificed so much only to be literally washed away. They were being used. That's demoralizing.

Compare to this with Jil who gave Utu and Fatina a chance if they wanted to proceed or not.

manners and decency makes a huge difference.

Except she knew he would follow her so to save him she sent him away. But the true reason for it.. I expected it to be a little more complex. And I guess she is cooperating with Neeba since they both benefit from the same goal.

Originally Posted by CCLemon

I hope the mechanics concerning Gilgamesh's immmortality are better explained in the later episodes. Right now, we have no idea why...

1. One Gilgamesh ages, while the other doesn't.

2. If the two Gilgameshs are separate entities (possibly through splitting his soul. Horcruxes, anyone?), completely unaware of the other's current state, or controlled by the same consciousness. It seems to be the latter, given how the two of them finish each other's sentences.

On a completely unrelated note, does young Gil remind anybody of the hero from Tales of Vesperia?

Getting old and frail is part of the curse.

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

you guys are missing the point that 'no return' does not refer to the possibility of being killed if you don't succeed. the idea of one way ticket is that even if you do make it you are(probably) not gonna get back alive.

Ki said they won't return alive.

And those troops just going on in. It didn't even stay long enough the first time for Jil to jump on and this time there's a spiral staircase.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Originally Posted by technomo12

awesome

Jil has the awesomess sword i have ever seen!

Spoiler for OMFG!!!!:

Whip sword!!!!!!!!!!

also Weeeeeeeeee new dungeon new enemies

hmm aint this what wee call the "?" dungeon where in every time you finish a game new areas are unlocked

Chain sword. Not

Spoiler for OMFG!!!!:

Whip sword!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, for the betrayal and stuff, Jil shouldn't feel any anger or pain from the betrayal. His main purpose or main reason for climbing the tower is to "play the hero". It doesn't matter if there was a treasure or not on top of it. Melt, Coopa and the girl with the spear I think her name is abbey should feel pain and anger since they risked their lives for a treasure they didn't acquire or get. What's even worse is that the treasure doesn't even exist. Jil got his treasure, he went from a weak person to a strong one. He played the best role ever- he played the main character, the hero of the story also. Jil shouldn't have any regrets.

[Manji Midou]

Originally Posted by Omega-kun

MILF (TEA)TIME^^

So this is what Kaaya might somewhat look like when she's all grown up, huh?

Come on gil, save her and have some kids with her!

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'm very upset at Kaaya. I thought there was more reason other than "you might not come home if you proceed"

Hmm....well the way l see it...is
Kaaya initially was concern with her mission at hand...and didn't expect to become attached to her group.....or that she would fall for jil, lose a friend and so on. Having already felt the pain of losing a friend she most likely didn't want her loved one to die as well.

btw, since when did kaaya steal anything?
oh wait...she might be guilty of stealing jil's heart
poor fatina....

[frubam]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Ki said they won't return alive.

Normally, I'd say that that's bs and believe that most of the main cast WILL come back because standard action-adventure fantasy animes like this always give such premonitions only for it to fall to needless worry, as the hero, through sheer determination, the love and trust of his friends, and the hope of humanity causes him(or her/they) to surpass the realm of reality and obtain the power to overturn the catastrophic calamity that he is faced at the end of the series and miraculously preseveres through seemingly impossible odds. But taking into account how quickly Kally died, I kinda have my doubts.

And yes, the run-on sentence was intentional .

[Voitan]

You can still defeat the tower I presume and come out alive much like how Gilgamesh did, just not so certain about your friends coming with you.

On the otherhand they could live in the tower comfortably for the rest of their lives.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Narona

The whole first episode was supposed to be a joke, but still I see some truth in it so far. Enough to believe it was supposed to tell what will happen in the second season.

Preaching to the choir my friend. Heck, it was even me who first brought up the idea that there might be more than what meets the eye in the dream in S1EP1 in this forum... that because S1 follows very closely to what actually happened in the first half of the dream, it might very well be the actual plotline for the entire show (barring obvious jokes of course).

Anyways, in regards to the dream, it was done in half parody fashion. As such, one has to discern which parts are obviously put there, literally, just for the lulz and differentiate them from those that might actually be a clue for future events.

And with that said, I really do think the 'I am your father' part was one of the former, because it's so obviously references one of the most well known plot twists of recent history. Of course I can be wrong (Jil/Neeba's father might very well be the evil mastermind behind all the events), but I seriously doubt it. This is because, as I said, that plot twist is very famous... so much so that if Druaga follows it, it runs a very high risk of being labeled as a rip off of that movie. And I, for one, think too highly of Gatoh Shoji for him to make that mistake.

IIRC (but i could be wrong), Neeba is his Half Brother. And there is no proof so far that diminish the possibility that:

- Jil was adopted.

If Neeba is his Half Brother, then that alone means Jil couldn't have been adopted. Definition of adopt: Adoption is the act of legally placing a child with a parent or parents other than those to whom they were born. And if you didn't know already, Jil/Neeba are half brothers through sharing the same father, and thus Jil couldn't have been adopted since he was under the care of his blood-related father.

- Jil's father is blood related to gilgamesh and Ki in some way (example: son of one of Gil's sons who were supposed to be dead). I doubt that Kayaa is Gil's daughter, rather her granddaughter.

Well, the latest episode had Ki flatly stating outright that there is only one living being that share her and Gil's blood. And considering that Ki is a spirit that knows too much for her own good, I'd take her word over any conspiracy theory that links Jil to Gil/Ki, especially when those theories are bullet-ridden with holes.

[BrokenWingz]

Juggling through quotes and replying in spoiler forms can get rather complicated at times.

Spoiler for reply Frostfire:

Originally Posted by Frostfire

You're ignoring the point that Key Board was making, that was the option of choice. Jil had more reason to climb than just getting wealth and riches, just as everyone had gained more reason to climb. (Ahmey's death gave all of them a new reason to climb and finish their quest.) They were going to stop the "evil" for her, and they were continuing for their friends. At any point they had a choice of running away, and at the point where they face Druaga it is questionable whether it was for just money at that point.

I think you’re misunderstanding the concept of another’s perspective, the argument is based on no consent. Clearly we’re just arguing if Kaaya actions are justified. And no, theirs is no heroic goal from anyone else; everyone had their own selfish reason for climbing it was nowhere as grand as you try to make it sound. The climb involves beating a boss to obtain a treasure which is the crystal rod, clear and simple.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

Ultimately, Neeba and Kaaya gave them no choice. Even if it was a one way ticket, Jil and co. had a reason (even if its just Ahmey) to see everything through to the end. Beyond that, though, they had investments in their friends to help them finish whatever it was they were doing. They had a right to continue or at least be given the chance to decide on their own. It is a caring act, to leave them behind, but it is also selfish and demoralizing.

The gravity of the situation change, read no return. Forfeiting lives because unlike before you can simple beat Druaga and return home alive for honors or for wealth. With a one way ticket the metaphor of forfeiting lives is the same since they will be known to be dead by others, with no future memories to be remembered by anyone else only to be sin an unknown place.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

Fighting a demi-god does not come with a 'no return' risk? The entire point of climbing the tower was that these people were willing to face death for riches and glory. There was a very large 'no return' policy with just climbing the tower, if there wasn't then everyone and their dog would have climbed the tower.

Again “No Return” means something else, like most RPG defeating a boss and returning home alive is possible, it is conclusive the hero return homes alive, but let’s change it so he can’t return home. What would his friends/friend and the people who know him would feel? Death is the equivalent when you’re time has stop for others.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

The key belongs to whomever wins it. If it was Kayaa's she could have just asked for Druaga to return it. The key belonged to the group, to everyone, because they all worked to earn it. There is a clear stealing here because it was not just Kayaa and Neeba winning, it was everyone. They had a right to decide what they wanted to do with what they had lost friends over to win.

The group may have earned the key but for all intent and purpose the key belongs to kaaya. There is no stealing involve simple because what the group wanted “
the reward” is clearly different to the outcome. Lie and deceived perhaps but clearly not stolen as the end reward was never an item they wanted. Do you play wow perharps or any MMO game? the looting system on a boss is distributed to classes that needs it and can use it? it would be the same if a warrior ninja a rouge gear for the sake of being an asshole, while it might sound childish to use such an example the aspect of looting is first and primary for those that can use it. The group certainly had a right but looking at kaaya perspective her good intention are in the right place. Now let’s assume the gate had a time limited on it, how much time you think the group will need to decide. This isn’t a decision that can be decided on a flimsy minute or two. Someone has to make a decision, simple kaaya made it for them in their best interest her action are justify for the sake of protecting others.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

Being returned to the bottom left them with a pretty miserable life-style. Jil did not do anything but rot away in his room, Fatina was living a life she did not enjoy, and Utu was fighting thugs for a way of living. They may be alive, but I doubt they were enjoying it. They were forced into a life they did not want. Yes, they are alive, but they are pretty much just empty shells. If anything, this episode showed us, they'd rather climb and face death than return to boring old boring.

The only bonus that came from them living a normal life is that they found out they did not need the people who ditched them to live. They found better allegiances and better friends. Friends who give them a choice.

Your taking the argument out of context as life style isn’t control by kaaya. They will given new life metaphorically. How they wish to spend it is their own decision not kaaya’s.
Lol, the alternative isn’t kind and full of fun too is it now. Rather be stuck somewhere to live your life with 5 people you know in a world which no one can get to is better?

[Molenir]

If Neeba is his Half Brother, then that alone means Jil couldn't have been adopted.

This is actually not true. As an example, lets say you get married, have a kid, and your husband dies. You get remarried, and have another kid with the new husband. The 2 children are half-siblings. Your new husband adopts the first kid...

Alternatively, Jils dad could have had an affair, and Jil is the bastard product of their union. He later decides to legalize him, and formally adopts him into the family. This would make him Neeba's half brother again. Adoption isn't as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

[Frostfire]

Before I crash for the night, my reply:

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

Juggling through quotes and replying in spoiler forms can get rather complicated at times.

Spoiler for Reply:

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

I think you’re misunderstanding the concept of another’s perspective, the argument is based on no consent. Clearly we’re just arguing if Kaaya actions are justified. And no, theirs is no heroic goal from anyone else; everyone had their own selfish reason for climbing it was nowhere as grand as you try to make it sound. The climb involves beating a boss to obtain a treasure which is the crystal rod, clear and simple.

From a pure point of justification? That would depend on one's opinion of a person's right over someone else. In my opinion she had no right to basically give them an ultimatum (however good it may have been) without letting them have a say. Therefore, she was no justified.

Ahmey, for example, had no ambition for glory or riches. She climbed because she was helping Kaaya, partly out of being a hired hand but mostly out of her friendship that grew with the girl. These people did not just climb for glory and riches. But yes, it was ultimately to defeat the boss as a team and obtain the treasure as a team. I'll get back to the as a team bit in a few moments.

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

The gravity of the situation change, read no return. Forfeiting lives because unlike before you can simple beat Druaga and return home alive for honors or for wealth. With a one way ticket the metaphor of forfeiting lives is the same since they will be known to be dead by others, with no future memories to be remembered by anyone else only to be sin an unknown place.

You cannot simply defeat a demi-god. Gilgamesh did not simply defeat Druaga, go home, and live happily ever after. When you face something of this magnitude there are always bad things if you win. In the case of Jil and co. they won but they lost friends. These are irreplacable, especially for the people who died. Sacrifices have to be made to achieve victory. All of them went into it knowing that and still decided to go ahead.

So, even in a situation where the only outcome is probable death, people still have a right to choose. Not have it chosen for them, that is why people have free will. Kaaya has no right to decide for others how to live their lives.

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

Again “No Return” means something else, like most RPG defeating a boss and returning home alive is possible, it is conclusive the hero return homes alive, but let’s change it so he can’t return home. What would his friends/friend and the people who know him would feel? Death is the equivalent when you’re time has stop for others.

Like I said, Gilgamesh defeated Druaga but he did not live happily ever after. This may be a ficticious story but its been established that people do die and that the heroes do not just "win" in the end.

If he died saving the kingdom, they'd likely feel exactly what everyone felt for Ahmey. Gratitude and sorrow. They are not going to spit on her sacrifice because they "miss her". She died for them, with the full fledged options infront of her. She did not have to fight, she chose to fight. This is the option Kaaya took away from everyone.

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

The group may have earned the key but for all intent and purpose the key belongs to kaaya. There is no stealing involve simple because what the group wanted “the reward” is clearly different to the outcome. Lie and deceived perhaps but clearly not stolen as the end reward was never an item they wanted. Do you play wow perharps or any MMO game? the looting system on a boss is distributed to classes that needs it and can use it? it would be the same if a warrior ninja a rouge gear for the sake of being an asshole, while it might sound childish to use such an example the aspect of looting is first and primary for those that can use it. The group certainly had a right but looking at kaaya perspective her good intention are in the right place. Now let’s assume the gate had a time limited on it, how much time you think the group will need to decide. This isn’t a decision that can be decided on a flimsy minute or two. Someone has to make a decision, simple kaaya made it for them in their best interest her action are justify for the sake of protecting others.

As a team they earned the key. No where in that statement does "It belongs to Kaaya" appear. It does not belong to her, it belongs to the people who earned it. You're WoW example is terrible. In a raid, when the group defeats the boss, the rogue does not just take the gear. The loot is dibbied up by the leader or whomever is handing out the loot. The rogue may earn the gear, but it does not just belong to them.

In this situation, Kaaya and Neeba just took the "gear" and then ninja-logged.
"I'll be taking this, don't need you anymore so bye."

Originally Posted by BrokenWingz

Your taking the argument out of context as life style isn’t control by kaaya. They will given new life metaphorically. How they wish to spend it is their own decision not kaaya’s.
Lol, the alternative isn’t kind and full of fun too is it now. Rather be stuck somewhere to live your life with 5 people you know in a world which no one can get to is better?

Life style is not controlled by Kaaya, but removing them from choosing their own path to their own prefered life style was done by her.

[Key Board]

I had things to say, but Frostfire already went over them.

I'll just add that some of the worst things committed by men had the best intentions in mind. Justification is a very dangerous word.

On another note, I would have been slightly more sympathetic if Kaaya left behind a letter for everyone to read explaining her actions, but she didn't even do that.

[technomo12]

sigh will jill get thier ass handed to them or will the kick ass in a BAD ASS way........

will the golden knight die due to thier stupidity (i hope so)

[DragoZERO]

From the flashback about Jil learning that dance we saw Neeba looking at it from a distance and learning that way. That makes me think that Jil is the son of the king and queen and Neeba is the son of lets say a mistress or something. Because of that Neeba isn't treated like Jil even though he is older.

[Jiyuu]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Ki said they won't return alive.

true she did say that, but she isn't an omnipotent god or anything like that. so its not like its written in stone that there is no way to return.
you shouldn't be too trusting in whats being told to you in a series.

Well, the latest episode had Ki flatly stating outright that there is only one living being that share her and Gil's blood. And considering that Ki is a spirit that knows too much for her own good, I'd take her word over any conspiracy theory that links Jil to Gil/Ki, especially when those theories are bullet-ridden with holes.

she said kaaya is the only person who has both her blood and gil's blood.
that doesn't cover all the bases :P
half brothers\sisters are fairly common in that kind of setting.



i didn't read the entire discussion about rather what kaaya did was right or wrong.
but i will just say that its fairly futile to try and argue throu it.
its a fairly philosophical discussion.

its basically "does people have the right to prevent someone from getting himself killed"

if you saw someone about to jump of a roof would you stop him?
probably yes right?

and what about someone about to drive on a bike in 200mph during a late night wile its raining?(lets say for arguments sake that its impossible for him to kill anyone by crashing said bike).
you would probably still stop him right?

if you had a terminal illness and you knew you friend will sell everything that he owns and spend all of his time to try and cure you. would you prevent him from doing so by not telling him?

and i can go on and on. all these examples show a conflict of principles, there is no "right" and "wrong" in that case. its only a matter of what you think is more important.

[BrokenWingz]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I had things to say, but Frostfire already went over them.

I'll just add that some of the worst things committed by men had the best intentions in mind. Justification is a very dangerous word.

On another note, I would have been slightly more sympathetic if Kaaya left behind a letter for everyone to read explaining her actions, but she didn't even do that.

Writing a letter in such circumstance seems rather unrealistic.... I suppose if she knew before hand it would be possible but keep in mind Jil was chosen to accompany Kaaya to the top but the sudden abrupt changes meant there was no time to do such menial task.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

Before I crash for the night, my reply:

which reminds me I keep thinking of frostfire bolt when I read your user name lol. (no offense) but at least I'm having fun posting on in this thread for the time being.

Spoiler for reply:

Originally Posted by Frostfire

From a pure point of justification? That would depend on one's opinion of a person's right over someone else. In my opinion she had no right to basically give them an ultimatum (however good it may have been) without letting them have a say. Therefore, she was no justified.

Ahmey, for example, had no ambition for glory or riches. She climbed because she was helping Kaaya, partly out of being a hired hand but mostly out of her friendship that grew with the girl. These people did not just climb for glory and riches. But yes, it was ultimately to defeat the boss as a team and obtain the treasure as a team. I'll get back to the as a team bit in a few moments.

For the intent of good will even a panel of jury will rule in favor, regardless of one's opinion the effect and causes should be examined. But let’s go back and look at Ahmey, while her goal was neither for riches or fame, her ultimate goal was to see her dead boyfriend using the power of the blue crystal rod. (Re-examine episode 12 or was it 11?) Everyone in Jils team had personal reason for the climb. Melt clearly wanted Riches, Jil wanted honor to clear his father name. I believed everyone was motivated by self interest.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

You cannot simply defeat a demi-god. Gilgamesh did not simply defeat Druaga, go home, and live happily ever after. When you face something of this magnitude there are always bad things if you win. In the case of Jil and co. they won but they lost friends. These are irreplacable, especially for the people who died. Sacrifices have to be made to achieve victory. All of them went into it knowing that and still decided to go ahead.

So, even in a situation where the only outcome is probable death, people still have a right to choose. Not have it chosen for them, that is why people have free will. Kaaya has no right to decide for others how to live their lives.

Now we’re heading towards the meat of the argument. But before that I want to say, climbers intended to return after obtaining the crystal rod which is the best outcome the idea of obtaining wealth and not being able to spend is a contradiction. While it may be true that Gil did not receive a happy end that part is irrelevant since it is a secret to most climbers. While people who climb the tower there goal aren’t suicidal nor were it heroic, everyone believed in the rod and everyone aims to return. The idea behind No return adds an odds of 100% unfavorable. If greed is the main cause for climbing then simple no climber will take on something that is unfavorable when it is 100%.

For sake of argument, the main confliction are does Kaaya has the right to decide for others, everything else is irrelevant up to this point. The main drive behind Kaaya decision is to save lives or to not involve those whom she cared to share the same fate as her. The act of saving lives is more important than anything else in this world. The act of choosing death over life is immoral by any standard, Kaaya action can be justify in this way. While consent is important sometimes people act on best interest which is neither correct nor wrong but clearly not unjustified.

Originally Posted by Frostfire

As a team they earned the key. No where in that statement does "It belongs to Kaaya" appear. It does not belong to her, it belongs to the people who earned it. You're WoW example is terrible. In a raid, when the group defeats the boss, the rogue does not just take the gear. The loot is dibbied up by the leader or whomever is handing out the loot. The rogue may earn the gear, but it does not just belong to them.

In this situation, Kaaya and Neeba just took the "gear" and then ninja-logged.
"I'll be taking this, don't need you anymore so bye."

And for some gibberish.
Lol I do admit it was partly terrible example, but the principles behind theft consist of procession and dishonesty.
Let’s first examine possession and ownership, the item knows as the Key to the mystic tower can be seen as an intangible object. Its existent is not known until the defeat of Druaga. To gain ownership of something its existence must first be realized. If we look at before Druaga was defeated the key is consider an object without ownership as its realization hasn’t come into effect. Once Druaga was defeated the key was mistaken for the blue crystal rod. In accordance with possession there is no possession if the item in question is not desired or has no valued. Something was certainly stolen but it is not the crystal rod which falls into the category of deceit and not theft. The rights belong to Kaaya as the item and its intent are used for one reason and if we consider Gil as the owner of the tower and Kaaya having a blood relationship hence rights to possession can be established.

The next part consists of Dishonesty. Because the item in question has no vaule to Jil and co there is no dishonesty or a taken of rights in this case. The item must first have a value or a uses to be considered dishonestly.

I will let you have a field day on this part.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Molenir

This is actually not true. As an example, lets say you get married, have a kid, and your husband dies. You get remarried, and have another kid with the new husband. The 2 children are half-siblings. Your new husband adopts the first kid...

Nope, that is not technically adoption. The husband did NOT adopt the first kid... he merely became the kid's step-father.

Alternatively, Jils dad could have had an affair, and Jil is the bastard product of their union. He later decides to legalize him, and formally adopts him into the family. This would make him Neeba's half brother again.

All the dad did was legalize the child, which is a VERY FAR cry from adopting him. He's merely taking up the parental duties and responsibilities that was on him in the first place.

Also, whether or not Jil is accepted by his father as his own son, that wouldn't change the fact that he is Neeba's half brother by blood.

Adoption isn't as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

Adoption, in the definition IS a cut-and-dried matter. I don't even know why this is in debate, because then your English definition of 'adopt' would be different from the rest of the world's English definition of 'adopt'.

Seriously now, if someone said they were adopted, don't you naturally assume that they are NOT any of their parent's biological child? You don't see anyone with a step-parent saying they're adopted, now do you? In the same way, an adopted child never says that their adoptive parents are their step-parents. It just doesn't work that way, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

she said kaaya is the only person who has both her blood and gil's blood.
that doesn't cover all the bases :P
half brothers\sisters are fairly common in that kind of setting.

For this to be true, either Ki must have had a kid with a man other than Gil, or Gil must have had another kid with a woman that's not Ki. And tell me, did the show even so much as hint either case? While there is no evidence to contradict it, there is also none to support it. As such, this goes into speculation territory at best, and thus has almost no believability as far as theories goes.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Jiyuu

true she did say that, but she isn't an omnipotent god or anything like that. so its not like its written in stone that there is no way to return.
you shouldn't be too trusting in whats being told to you in a series.

I just wanted to point out that they didn't say 'no return' rather 'not return alive' - I'm sure they'll find a way of coming back in one piece although there will be some sort of price to pay.

[TrueKnight]

Awesome Ep 4 is awesome. Drastically change the series atmosphere in a good way. Now we have bunch of political stuff involving the role of Gilgamesh as an 'icon' and deterrent for Uruk's Kingdom surrounding and the Sumar faction who seems wishes to restore their empire to former glory. Gotta feel sorry for Gilgamesh with his curse of immortality resulting him seeing never ending conflicts and betrayals which resulted on the deaths of his loved ones while he himself survived. No wonder the good and just inside him decays with time.

Jil proved himself to be a badass once again with his whip-sword soul calibur style and manage to slay fake Druaga second time in a row with the help of his gang.

Ki was surprisingly carefree and fun to watch.

Melt well is Melt with his selfish attitude but that’s what made him unique and interested, not to mention he cares for Coopa so he’s still awesome.

Kelb is searching the secrets of God and found them with tragic results. Oh man I’m waiting for Kelb making a badass comeback in the Land of Shadows/Mythical Tower whatever saving Jil’s ass.

So many things happened in ep 4 which are presented decently in my opinion. Now all they have to do is tell us in the future what the hell are the coffins Pazus’ brought in the Tower in S1, so far all we now that it has a mechanical girl loli and who the hell released them? I’m waiting in excitements lol.

And seriously what's with Jil and Kaaya are brother-sister blood related? So far proof indicates that Jil is son of Marka from Larsa, whom in S1 intends to restore his father tainted name by climbing the tower and becoming a hero.

Kaaya as we predicted is royalty, the descendant of King Gilgamesh and his Queen Ki.

Neeba is his half brother who's mother probably a mistress or concubine or someting or it could be that Neeba's a bastard child, and because of that seems to despise Jil to a certain extent because of their situation. What his connection of the Sumar faction is unknown or probably he has his own agenda.

Ep 4 made me root for Jil and Kaaya more, hell yeah badass hero and tragic princess ftw! Can’t wait to see the look in Kaaya’s face when Jil’s enter the stage saying ‘I’m coming for your, baby!’. Fatina well she can go back with Neeba I guess or with Utu.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by TrueKnight

Kelb is searching the secrets of God and found them with tragic results. Oh man I’m waiting for Kelb making a badass comeback in the Land of Shadows/Mythical Tower whatever saving Jil’s ass.

How is he going to get there? Unless Jil leaves the door to the tower open the whole time.

[Molenir]

Nope, that is not technically adoption. The husband did NOT adopt the first kid... he merely became the kid's step-father.

All the dad did was legalize the child, which is a VERY FAR cry from adopting him. He's merely taking up the parental duties and responsibilities that was on him in the first place.

Also, whether or not Jil is accepted by his father as his own son, that wouldn't change the fact that he is Neeba's half brother by blood.

Adoption, in the definition IS a cut-and-dried matter. I don't even know why this is in debate, because then your English definition of 'adopt' would be different from the rest of the world's English definition of 'adopt'.

Seriously now, if someone said they were adopted, don't you naturally assume that they are NOT any of their parent's biological child? You don't see anyone with a step-parent saying they're adopted, now do you? In the same way, an adopted child never says that their adoptive parents are their step-parents. It just doesn't work that way, I'm sorry.

Getting into the ins and outs of adoption isn't really something I particularly want to do, however, what you seem to fail to understand, is that this is a Japanese anime. They have these things called family registers. When you marry someone, you are entered into their family register. Children are enrolled in family registers when they are born. However, children of different fathers or parents, or bastard children, are not automatically entered into family registers. If and when they are, then they are formally adopted. So what I said previously was correct. A child could be outside the family, but of the same blood. The family deciding to legitimize him, enters him into the registry, thus he is adopted, even though he is of the same blood. Or, the mother could remarry, bringing her child, who is then adopted into the family as well.

Having said this, its kind of getting of topic here, so I'll drop it from here on out.

[kujoe]

I don't know... I find the whole drama surrounding Kaaya's betrayal and her intentions to be so.. so... utterly needless, in terms of the very premise of it.

All she had to do was find honest-to-god comrades who are willing to climb to the top of the tower with her and beat the guardian with her true intentions already known to them from the very beginning. If she had simply told the truth, then none of this drama would even be here.

I find all these schemes so needless in the face of the actual reason behind them. For something such as this, an ally had to die and the people who banded together with tooth and nail to slay an unstoppable monster were all flushed down from the tower. The reason behind the lengths that Kaaya had to go through, even going as far as watching Neeba doing the same to his own party and letting him shoot Jil for the rod, just seems so underwhelming.

I guess I was expecting something more than just "a one way trip to the next tower and that's why you can't go."