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carcanclaw · 2010-07-26, 15:50

Did they ever explicitly say that they knew the Tower of Heaven was a giant Lacrima? I'm sure they knew about the large lacrima in the throne room, but they seemed pretty shocked that the whole tower was a crystal.

MechR · 2010-07-26, 16:13

Yeah, that was one of the big writing flaws of this arc. Erza pretty much spells out the whole setup just short of putting two and two together, and it makes her look like a moron. It would've been better if she hadn't known energy was the missing piece.

(The other writing flaw in the manga was not enough establishment that Jellal and Siegrain were "supposed" to be two different people, which the anime mostly fixed.)

Darn the next-ep preview for skipping Natsu vs Gerard entirely. Not even a pretense of suspense at the outcome. Also, the lachryma looks like creepy pudding

amjzz · 2010-07-26, 16:55

The lacrima thing is not a plothole.

Manga fans know that when magic is used against a lacrima there are 2 possible results:

1. Lacrima is destroyed.
2. Lacrima is charged.

Thats not a spoiler, its common sense that a magic attack can destroy a crystal.

Etherion is the strongest weapon of the strongest mages of the mage world, it was quite normal to think that the tower was going to be destroyed.

In fact, its said on the episode that the lacrima is unstable.

Clarste · 2010-07-26, 17:08

Natsu destroyed a giant lacrima with magic in the previous arc. Being made of lacrima doesn't automatically mean it absorbs magic. Also, the idea that being nuked was part of his plan is a bit absurd to think of naturally, especially the timing and all that.

On another note, I always thought Jellal's manga costume was kind of stupid, so I was glad to see it changed. Meteor looked kind of silly animated though.

Dextro · 2010-07-26, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Natsu destroyed a giant lacrima with magic in the previous arc. Being made of lacrima doesn't automatically mean it absorbs magic. Also, the idea that being nuked was part of his plan is a bit absurd to think of naturally, especially the timing and all that.

On another note, I always thought Jellal's manga costume was kind of stupid, so I was glad to see it changed. Meteor looked kind of silly animated though.

If I'm not mistaken you're talking about Phantom's cannon right? If that's the case he didn't actually use magic to destroy the Lacrima, he used magic to push the opponents sword he had previously carved into it further in cracking the crystal in the process.

kitten320 · 2010-07-26, 19:05

I always found it odd that Jelala and Gerard had the same tattoo and that by some weird reason their fates were so different. It sure is weird that one brother was a slave and that second one was in council, how did that happen?
But somehow the idea of being the same person didn't cross my mind.

Liked how Natsu took the advantage of immobile Erza, I'm sure he would have done more if he had time

Also nice action, good to see that Jelal is really strong. Looks like he won't be defeated this time around, that's good.
Natsu sure misses Erza, Gray and Lucy... together they would destriy it in no time

MechR · 2010-07-26, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Also, the idea that being nuked was part of his plan is a bit absurd to think of naturally, especially the timing and all that.

Nonsense. Erza knew these things:
1) The Tower of Paradise needed raw magical power, and lots of it.
2) Aetherion is a giant blast of raw magical power.
3) Jellal did not seem worried about Aetherion at all.
4) Jellal had an inside man on the Council, which is in charge of Aetherion's usage.

Come on, Erza, work that brain!

FlareKnight · 2010-07-26, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechR

Nonsense. Erza knew these things:
1) The Tower of Paradise needed raw magical power, and lots of it.
2) Aetherion is a giant blast of raw magical power.
3) Jellal did not seem worried about Aetherion at all.
4) Jellal had an inside man on the Council, which is in charge of Aetherion's usage.

Come on, Erza, work that brain!

Apparently Erza was so focused on dying with Jellal she decided to ignore any part of her mind that might have been hinting at this. Maybe it's just as Simon said and Erza is far too soft when it comes to Jellal. I'd rather think she chose to ignore the possibility that there was a plan at work and hoped Jellal had returned in some fashion even if it meant dying together.

amjzz · 2010-07-26, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechR

Nonsense. Erza knew these things:
1) The Tower of Paradise needed raw magical power, and lots of it.
2) Aetherion is a giant blast of raw magical power.
3) Jellal did not seem worried about Aetherion at all.
4) Jellal had an inside man on the Council, which is in charge of Aetherion's usage.

Come on, Erza, work that brain!

Etherion is a giant cannon of destructive magical power, not raw magical power that can be absorbed by mages. The lacrima absorbed it, but it was said that is very unstable.

Erza just discovered that sieglein and gerard are the same person and that sieglein was evil.

Krono · 2010-07-26, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dextro

If I'm not mistaken you're talking about Phantom's cannon right? If that's the case he didn't actually use magic to destroy the Lacrima, he used magic to push the opponents sword he had previously carved into it further in cracking the crystal in the process.

The thing with the sword was a change the anime made. In the manga Natsu just blasted it directly and it shattered after a few moments.

Crontica · 2010-07-26, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechR

Nonsense. Erza knew these things:
1) The Tower of Paradise needed raw magical power, and lots of it.
2) Aetherion is a giant blast of raw magical power.
3) Jellal did not seem worried about Aetherion at all.
4) Jellal had an inside man on the Council, which is in charge of Aetherion's usage.

Come on, Erza, work that brain!

Quote:

Originally Posted by amjzz

Etherion is a giant cannon of destructive magical power, not raw magical power that can be absorbed by mages. The lacrima absorbed it, but it was said that is very unstable.

Erza just discovered that sieglein and gerard are the same person and that sieglein was evil.

Jellad was also mumbling something about "if this plan fails i will be annihilated" making this a clear Suicidal Gambit, waaay out of Erza's predictions, everything at that point of impact was pretty much a 50/50 of going ether way.

MechR · 2010-07-26, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by amjzz

Etherion is a giant cannon of destructive magical power, not raw magical power that can be absorbed by mages. The lacrima absorbed it, but it was said that is very unstable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crontica

Jellad was also mumbling something about "if this plan fails i will be annihilated" making this a clear Suicidal Gambit, waaay out of Erza's predictions, everything at that point of impact was pretty much a 50/50 of going ether way.

Even if it was a crazy plan, the basic idea of the plan should've occurred to Erza from the points I listed. So, the R-system needs a crapload of magical energy that'd be impossible to gather by normal means. Wouldn't it be convenient if that giant incoming magic blast could be harnessed to power it? Maybe that's why Jellal looks so laid-back about how things are going!

Quote:

Erza just discovered that sieglein and gerard are the same person and that sieglein was evil.

Not quite; Erza already knew Sieglein was evil and cooperating with his "brother" by keeping an eye on her, even if she didn't know they were the same person.

Clarste · 2010-07-27, 02:10

No, she thought he was just corrupt and not working against his brother. If she knew they were actually on the same side (or rather, the same person) she'd probably have been much less tolerant of him.

MechR · 2010-07-27, 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

No, she thought he was just corrupt and not working against his brother. If she knew they were actually on the same side (or rather, the same person) she'd probably have been much less tolerant of him.

In both the anime and manga, she berated him for not only doing nothing to stop Jellal, but also for actively helping his "brother" keep tabs on her. See chapter 94, and below:

In that manga translation she also says "I knew it... the two of you were in on this together." Similarly, the anime translation says "So you two really did plot this together." She already suspected they were in cahoots.

Re: her tolerating Siegrain, as far as she knew, killing him would've just landed her in jail with no chance of ever finding Jellal, her main target. She also didn't have enough proof to depose him, and attempting it would've forfeited the lives of her friends, who Jellal was still holding hostage.

Crontica · 2010-07-27, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechR

her tolerating Siegrain, as far as she knew, killing him would've just landed her in jail with no chance of ever finding Jellal, her main target. She also didn't have enough proof to depose him, and attempting it would've forfeited the lives of her friends, who Jellal was still holding hostage.

Talk about terrible luck, she was pretty much locked in a physiological cage of terror.

Bonta Kun · 2010-07-27, 10:23

So whats with the crazy little creature in the lacrima, seems there are a few of these random creatures showing up in the background, there was the the blue dog thing few eps back.

Ep 39 was pretty good but I'm really waiting for next ep as that part was my fav of the arc. Loved how Natsu tears it up then.

Shiroth · 2010-07-27, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

but I'm really waiting for next ep as that part was my fav of the arc. Loved how Natsu tears it up then.

Yeah i seriously can't wait to see how they handle one of my favorite scenes in next weeks episode. So glad i didn't watch the leak.

kitten320 · 2010-07-27, 17:12

Huh? It looks like there was the episode 40 leak out... is it save to leave my opinion about it?

Shiroth · 2010-07-27, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitten320

Huh? It looks like there was the episode 40 leak out... is it save to leave my opinion about it?

I wouldn't if i was you, just to be safe. Wait until after the episode has officially aired.

kitten320 · 2010-07-27, 18:15

Ok, though I probably won't be able to do it since I'm on holidays starting from next week

But who knows

Though what I can confirm is that this arc doesn't completly end next week... at least I don't see it as 100% ending.

So yeh my predictiona about this arc ending soon were wrong

2010-07-26, 19:05	Link #1766
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	I always found it odd that Jelala and Gerard had the same tattoo and that by some weird reason their fates were so different. It sure is weird that one brother was a slave and that second one was in council, how did that happen? But somehow the idea of being the same person didn't cross my mind. Liked how Natsu took the advantage of immobile Erza, I'm sure he would have done more if he had time Also nice action, good to see that Jelal is really strong. Looks like he won't be defeated this time around, that's good. Natsu sure misses Erza, Gray and Lucy... together they would destriy it in no time __________________ My anime list

2010-07-27, 10:23	Link #1776
Bonta Kun Know who you are Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Resides within the depths of Ned infested Glasgow	So whats with the crazy little creature in the lacrima, seems there are a few of these random creatures showing up in the background, there was the the blue dog thing few eps back. Ep 39 was pretty good but I'm really waiting for next ep as that part was my fav of the arc. Loved how Natsu tears it up then. __________________

2010-07-27, 17:12	Link #1778
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Huh? It looks like there was the episode 40 leak out... is it save to leave my opinion about it? __________________ My anime list

2010-07-27, 18:15	Link #1780
kitten320 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Ok, though I probably won't be able to do it since I'm on holidays starting from next week But who knows Though what I can confirm is that this arc doesn't completly end next week... at least I don't see it as 100% ending. So yeh my predictiona about this arc ending soon were wrong __________________ My anime list

2010-07-26, 15:50	Link #1761
carcanclaw Kitty? Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 33	Did they ever explicitly say that they knew the Tower of Heaven was a giant Lacrima? I'm sure they knew about the large lacrima in the throne room, but they seemed pretty shocked that the whole tower was a crystal.

2010-07-26, 16:13	Link #1762
MechR Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009	Yeah, that was one of the big writing flaws of this arc. Erza pretty much spells out the whole setup just short of putting two and two together, and it makes her look like a moron. It would've been better if she hadn't known energy was the missing piece. (The other writing flaw in the manga was not enough establishment that Jellal and Siegrain were "supposed" to be two different people, which the anime mostly fixed.) Darn the next-ep preview for skipping Natsu vs Gerard entirely. Not even a pretense of suspense at the outcome. Also, the lachryma looks like creepy pudding

2010-07-26, 16:55	Link #1763
amjzz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007	The lacrima thing is not a plothole. Manga fans know that when magic is used against a lacrima there are 2 possible results: 1. Lacrima is destroyed. 2. Lacrima is charged. Thats not a spoiler, its common sense that a magic attack can destroy a crystal. Etherion is the strongest weapon of the strongest mages of the mage world, it was quite normal to think that the tower was going to be destroyed. In fact, its said on the episode that the lacrima is unstable.

2010-07-26, 17:08	Link #1764
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Natsu destroyed a giant lacrima with magic in the previous arc. Being made of lacrima doesn't automatically mean it absorbs magic. Also, the idea that being nuked was part of his plan is a bit absurd to think of naturally, especially the timing and all that. On another note, I always thought Jellal's manga costume was kind of stupid, so I was glad to see it changed. Meteor looked kind of silly animated though.

2010-07-27, 02:10	Link #1773
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	No, she thought he was just corrupt and not working against his brother. If she knew they were actually on the same side (or rather, the same person) she'd probably have been much less tolerant of him.