To Aru Majutsu no Index Light Novel Discussion (Archives)

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by walt

note:
archangels according Bible are just 8th rank of all Heaven Forces
angels are messengers- nothing more, archangels - supermessengers or ambassadors
Lucifer was higher angel
higher rank of HF -Seraphims
seven known Archangels -are only chosen ones from minor angels
so Michael beat Lucifer not by his own power, but by his loyalty

it all about source-Bible :3

No.....

Archangel usually can be used to refer any angels above the lowest rank, or angels holding special position. Not just the 8th rank of hiearchy. Also, Michael is a seraph. He is the ruling prince of Seraph along with Seraphiel, Uriel, Jehoel, Kamuel, Metatron, and Nathanael.

[durack]

Originally Posted by ellifeedn

It's interesting to learn all this stuff about angels and other religious things, but the author actually knowing this when writing the novels...

Maybe he just played a lot of MegaTen games

[Chaos2Frozen]

You know, with all this references, we might be able to get hints of things to come through real world references.

Originally Posted by LastResolve

actually fallen angels created demons they arent demons themselfs they just lost their access to heaven

That's why I said some people.

In contemporary Christianity, demons are generally considered to be angels who fell from grace by rebelling against God. However, this is not consistent with historical Christianity or Judaism which teaches that demons, or evil spirits, are a result of the sexual relationships between fallen angels and human women.

Originally Posted by LastResolve

angels are messangers of the god but in bibble only a few archangels have seen god and these 3 give the orders its not like god gives direct orders to all of the angels

But base on the description shmaster gave, it seems that the Toaru's angels follow the Islamic views on angels.

They have no free will, and can do only what God orders them to do.

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

About the angels, its said Fiamma has the power that Michael used to seal the Lord of Hell. I have the bad feeling that the stupid Fiamma can release the seal starting a cathastrophe :S.

Though knowing Toaru, nothing is as it sounds, especially when it comes to the names of their spells/abilities.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

metatron? who is metatron?

I don't know if he was mentioned yet in the Toaru story, but Metatron is the name of an angel, or archangel.

Originally Posted by shmaster

No.....

Archangel usually can be used to refer any angels above the lowest rank, or angels holding special position. Not just the 8th rank of hiearchy. Also, Michael is a seraph. He is the ruling prince of Seraph along with Seraphiel, Uriel, Jehoel, Kamuel, Metatron, and Nathanael.

That makes sense, I've always wondered why the one who commands the heavenly hosts is only the second lowest rank.

Then again, if you look at the Christian angelic hierarchy, most of the high ranking angels aren't warriors at all...

[tsunade666]

I'm confused.... too confused on the way this talks leading. What is the hierarchy of angels to begin with? the only thing I know is angel and then theirs archangel. From other games that I played I heard about thrones, principality and other names but I have no clue or what so ever about them. Can someone clarify it please. And what's thelema?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I'm confused.... too confused on the way this talks leading. What is the hierarchy of angels to begin with? the only thing I know is angel and then theirs archangel. From other games that I played I heard about thrones, principality and other names but I have no clue or what so ever about them. Can someone clarify it please.

The Hierarchy of Angels is literally just that- It's a list that shows the order and ranking/position/title of the Angels.

Do note that there are many different versions of it, but the one that everyone is familiar with is this one...

Spoiler:

First Sphere

1. Seraphim - Serve as the caretakers of God's throne
2. Cherubim - Guard the way to the throne of God
3. Thrones - Living symbols of God's justice and authority

Second Sphere

4. Dominions - Hold the task of regulating the duties of lower angels
5. Virtues - Supervise the movements of the heavenly bodies
6. Powers - Warrior angels created to be completely loyal to God

Third Sphere

7. Principalities - Bequeath blessings to the material world
8. Archangels - Chief Angel
9. Angels - Heavenly messengers and soldiers

The closer they are to God, the higher their rank.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

And what's thelema?

Thelema is a philosophy or religion based on the dictum, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ... Love is the law, love under will," as presented in Aleister Crowley's Liber AL vel Legis (The Book of the Law, as in the REAL book of law in our world).

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

metatron? who is metatron?

Here: http://www.crystalinks.com/metatron.html

[tsunade666]

guys thanks its very learning experience specially used can the link that you've given is very interesting. Thanks

[LastResolve]

in the end the strongest guy in tamni is Izzard i mean turning his toughts into reality means he can revive kill do practically everything

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by LastResolve

in the end the strongest guy in tamni is Izzard i mean turning his toughts into reality means he can revive kill do practically everything

It's an unstable power if you ask me; putting aside how Touma defeated him, just thinking about ONE bad idea can screw up everything.

And we all know how the mind wanders...

[tsunade666]

His pretty unstable. that's why he use does pins to stab himself and using it to calm his mind. I think he needs more concentration than a teleporter that's teleporting a huge object.

[ykf566]

Chapter 6 has been translated.

Interesting conversation between Accelerator and Heaven Canceller. Funny how he compared Accelerator to being similar to Touma.

[tsunade666]

Well they are practically the same if you ask me but the one is walking on the path of destruction and loneliness even it meant to sacrifice itself to protect whose important to him. While the other is standing on front line while protecting others with the help of the others.

They basically protecting the people whose important to them specially the one's who can understand them more and share their feelings its just that their method are practically different. And I think the only reason for it is that touma forgot his past and accelerator hasn't.

While accelerator has the memory of his massacre and his evil doings and his sad past he can't walk the same path as LO. As for touma who lost his past and doesn't really care for a reason to help others can walk straight on without hesitations. The memory of touma really help him on being to much carefree if you ask me. Because he can't remember his sad past and his own suffering. While his parents still remember it he doesn't and I think its good for him too.

[ykf566]

I wasn't denying that they were similar, as you said, when it comes to protecting those who are important they are similar. I considered the statement funny as an interesting comparison.

I do think however Accelerator is too philosophical in regards to where he stands. He cannot follow the same path as LO because of all the 'evil' around him. I think his fine the way he is and where his relationship stands with those around him, he shouldn't have to change anything if neither one of them do. Touma had his memories erased, if only they were worth that much, i doubt Accelerator would want it even if he could.

[Chaos2Frozen]

I must say, I originally thought one whole volume on Kuroko would not be as intersting as say Touma or Accelerator... I mean, I'm just not a big fan of the yuri kind But I'm glad to have picked it up, it was quite a good insight into Kuroko's character

Spoiler for Thoughts on Volume 8:

First things first, this volume reveal ALOT of specifics about the power of teleportations. I don't have the book with me at the moment sadly, so the details like exact numbers off the top of my head is not 100% accurate.

If we take Kuroko as the norm:

Spoiler for Teleportation details:

- Teleporters are one of the rarest skills in the city, only like 50+ students are teleporters. Less than half of them are of Kuroko's capability, and maybe only 5 or so are more powerful than her.

- Aside from the 11th dimension thingy, teleporters are restricted by the object's weight, size, and distance. Kuroko herself has a maximum accurate distance of 81 metres. She also needs to know the layout of a building less she teleports into an object.

- The reason why she needs to touch the object is because she is using her position as Point '0', any object she touch is at point '0'. From there on, it's just a matter of calculating the position from point '0' tp where she wants it to go. She estimate the speed of her teleported object to be 250km/h.

- Awaki's power is different from Kuroko's. Instead of using herself as the origin, she can teleport objects without touching them by directing calculating their position then to the new position. The trade off is that it is slower than Kuroko's math. The reason why she have this power is to compensate her trauma of self teleporting, which she can only do like less than 4 times before vomiting. But do not be mistaken, she is still very much more powerful than Kuroko. Kuroko's maximum weight is only 100kg (i think) or so, while Awaki can go over 4500kg... Obviously there is some lag time for something that big.

[Chaos2Frozen]

In addition, despite being a Kuroko-Mikoto centric story, both Touma and Accelerator were really cool in this volume as well.

Spoiler for Touma:

I'm sure you've all heard, but in case you didn't- It was the combination of both Mikoto and Touma that saved Kuroko from being crushed by that 4000+ kg object. From Kuroko's POV (bloodied, desperate, practically half dead), Touma was pretty epic... LITERALLY PUNCHING THE FABRIC OF SPACE-TIME BACK TO NORMAL !

I don't know why, but every girl has to ask him "Why is he risking everything to save her when they hardly know each other?" and Kuroko is no different Touma's reply was suprising actually.

Spoiler for short version:

Touma: "I'm keeping a promise."
Kuroko: "A promise?"
Touma: "I made a promise to a certain nameless hotblooded guy, that I would always be there to protect Misaka and the (people) world around her... I know this is abit late, but did I keep that promise?"

Seriously though, I though she almost fell for him

Spoiler for Accelerator:

Not one to lose out, he was the one that actually defeated Awaki. BUt it's not much of a fight. She was already battered and bruised and terrified of Accelerator. This was the first time someone actually one up Touma

Touma: "DAMNIT! Who is that guy who stole my hardwork and just walked away?! WHo does he think he is acting all cool!"

Index: "That's right, for people like Touma, one is already too much!"

Touma: "...Oi!"

There is one more quote from Accelerator that I thought was very... Sweet of him

Spoiler for After beating Awaki...:

"In this pathetic state, I know it's impossible for me to ever become Academy City's 'Strongest' again... But I've already made up my mind... In the eyes of that brat I will always be the 'Strongest', scumbag!"

Awww...

[tsunade666]

OHHH MY G********! THAT'S SO ROMANTIC! I didn't think even for once he has a romantic side. ( the one I'm reading is semi translated and hard to understand most part ) its good to read when its translated right.

And I didn't think touma would get angry for someone stealing his prey.

[stillmissing]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Spoiler for Teleportation details:

- Aside from the 11th dimension thingy, teleporters are restricted by the object's weight, size, and distance. Kuroko herself has a maximum accurate distance of 81 metres. She also needs to know the layout of a building less she teleports into an object.

- Awaki's power is different from Kuroko's. Instead of using herself as the origin, she can teleport objects without touching them by directing calculating their position then to the new position. The trade off is that it is slower than Kuroko's math. The reason why she have this power is to compensate her trauma of self teleporting, which she can only do like less than 4 times before vomiting. But do not be mistaken, she is still very much more powerful than Kuroko. Kuroko's maximum weight is only 100kg (i think) or so, while Awaki can go over 4500kg... Obviously there is some lag time for something that big.

Spoiler for teleportation details:

Just filling in your numbers - Kuroko's maximum range is 81.5m and her mass limit is 130.7kg. Awaki's maximum range is 800m and her mass limit is 4520kg.

[Miraluka]

Accelerator's morality pet made a good job, eh! also Accelerator admited the fact he isn't the strongest like before.

[shmaster]

In regard to this line.

>>Touma: "I made a promise to a certain nameless hotblooded guy, that I would always be there to protect Misaka and the (people) world around her... I know this is abit late, but did I keep that promise?"

1. Etzali should be in tears, and it is pretty lol that Touma think Etzali is hotblooded.
2. You can't imagien how similiar that line is to the the line that Accelertor have kept on telling himself. Just replace Misaka with LO.

[tsunade666]

huh their lines are similar? I always thought that the catch phrase for Accelerator is even if I'm walk down the path of darkness I will always protect that single light.....( or something like that )

Though they are certain similarities which makes me wonder and amuse on the author. Why haven't the two that walk different path but came with the same conclusion haven't met yet but maybe until vol 20 even though their are random hints that they will meet but ended up not.

And awaki and kuroko are really different in specs. Too bad for awaki she has huge potential. Btw why do awaki even pick a fight with kuroko to begin with? is it another order from the higher ups?