[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Stream

Ryus, a few points.

First off I'm too emotional right now to think clearly... just put my dog down rather unexpectedly (but for a condition I new she had and was told wasn't serious... so I'm all sorts of confused). So I'll just ask for clarification on what your saying. Maybe I'll pick up this debate with you and gooral on a later date but for now I just don't have a clear head.

Originally Posted by Stream

1. About the quotes where Ophelia says regeneration is useless and at best an offensive type could only regenerate an ordinary human's arm: The translations are accurate. I just double-checked.

Something still feels wrong because Clare couldn't even start to process. In short the panels doesn't seem to match the dialog... if the dialog was stating that any offensive type could do it. In short Clare wasn't that strong and got jack.... so does the dialog imply weaker Claymores would take even longer or everyone is the same? I see a difference being implied. I maybe wrong about weaker Claymores not being able to but to me a difference because of ones power is still clearly implied.

Plus just how could a weaker Claymore take longer since the wound would close up... do they have to sandpaper the wound to keep it open? Clearly regeneration must go faster then the skins growth to close the wound or else the chopping the wound to reopen it would just give one a smaller stump and not a new limb after some time.

If we look at Deneve on Chapter 27 page 16 we can see the bone grows back first followed by the muscle and then the flesh. So some bone should have started to grow on Clare's arm with her attempt because if even it took some time the bone and muscle growth would have to beat the skins regrowth. However she still got nothing implying she couldn't get anything ever... So have I being going about this wrong and Clare just too offensive in nature? or something else since she did have the partially awakened loop hole to the rule...

I may have misinterpreted this but something is still not adding up for me based on what you two are saying. Since we know Clare was a better regenerator than Jean and likely better than most other offensive types since none of them has survived a wound like Clare's gut wound. Something is just not adding up. My original line of thinking was that the quote was meant to imply something but now you all have caused me to doubt this... so what else could it be (an oversight Yagi missed? I don't want that to be it... )

Originally Posted by Stream

2. Miria does not sense a "latent power" in Clare. That quote where Miria explains her impression of Clare as the strongest has been misinterpreted too much. Here is the situation: Clare solo kills four youma without straining herself or any injuries, is unfazed by the others demanding what she was up to running wild like that, has the situation fully under control, nonchalantly comments that she merely wanted to get the mission over with (ie. this is ordinary for her), and is unconcerned about the possibility of fighting an AB by herself. She essentially paints such a thorough image of being a badass (and has some results to show for it) that Miria naturally concludes that Clare must be strong, probably in the 10s. That was it. Miria does not somehow sense from that battle that Clare must have huge untapped youki reserves or somesuch.

Are you saying Miria's quote (ch 26 page 12) is wrong: "It felt as if... ...The strongest was standing before me." Since "felt" implies sensing... does it not? or that Miria wasn't sure just what she "felt" and that things just weren't adding up for her about Clare. I mean after rereading it I get what your saying but that later quote seems to contradict it. Could you clarify what that quote means... thanks.

Since it's very odd, since Miria know of all the top 5. So she couldn't have been mixing her up for Alicia or another... or could she have been? Plus why would she think that being a 7-9 would make her "the strongest". Could she have been thinking Clare was some rookie rising star in the organization? You know like Priscilla was... since she was so new not even Noel and Sophia knew of her until Irene told them of her.

People tie in Miria "sensing" Clare here often with Miria being the only one to sense the male AB for who he really was and Miria being only one of two ghosts to shiver over Riful's power implying they sensed her hidden inner layer of power. They state often that Miria has great "Yoki quality" sensing in there conclusion. Would this make that theory less likely?

Originally Posted by Stream

3. About the Male AB merely moving his tongue around under Miria's skin: No, I don't think that would cause enough damage to make Miria scream out in pain. I think he did injure Miria's stomach, but did it lightly and slowly to torture her to death. Because the wounds weren't that great, because Miria is such a powerful warrior, and because Clare bought her time, she was able to recover.

I rechecked out this... the Male AB was clearly moving his tongue just under her skin. Chapter 28 page 24 on Onemagna. Since her skin was bulging up in a tongue shape. In fact the tongue didn't go down towards the gut but up and in between Miria's breasts from Miria's belly. The tongue appeared to be above the rib cage imply little or no organ damage.

Your very wrong... detaching ones skin from the meat and bones as the tongue moved under the skin would hurt worse than hell. Since so many nerve lines would be severed and others be ready to rip. To make matters worse the brain would keep sensing the torn nerves. When on the other hand a gut wound would hurt a lot but the organs have no nerves... so pain would be limited to the sensations of the penetration. While that would still hurt it'd be more akin to Sarah Conner in T2 having the blade in the shoulder and the T-1000 twisting it rather than Hannibal Lector peeling the guys face off (so gruesome it wasn't shown). Miria looked totally defeated and ready to pass out and give up on life implying the worst pain possible.

[Stream]

First of all, my condolonces for having to put down the dog. It's a sad thing, and sometimes it doesn't ever go away, but I hope you feel better soon. If I may give a word of advice, it usually helps to talk about her and think back on the fun moments you've had with her. The kinds of emotions you feel - it's probably best not to bottle them up, instead just let them out. You'll feel better afterwards.

Also, I understand of course if you don't feel like having this discussion right now.

Umm... with that said, I think I'll address some of the points you've made and feel free to respond or not whenever you feel like.

About why Clare didn't have anything to show for her attempt at regenerating her arm, well... I already explained this to Gooral: High speed regeneration is Deneve's specialty and usually beyond the abilities of a defensive type unless they approach their limit. Clare is much weaker than Deneve and didn't even have experience reattaching limbs before Ophelia's mandetory lesson. The notion that she should immediately have results when attempting a high level ability when she barely has experience with the basics in a condition of depleted physical and mental strength is ridiculous. And as Ophelia previously pointed out, she wasn't going to wait around while Clare tried to recover.

As for Miria feeling that Clare was strong, I'm not saying the quote is wrong. I'm saying Clare gave off a certain badass impression that made Miria feel like she was the strongest. Similar to how we, as the readers, thought she was very strong too before we noticed she was in fact the weakest. I don't think Miria was sensing Clare's "untapped youki reserves" and I don't think Miria possesses that kind of advanced ability, even though she sensed Riful's hidden youki. Besides, if Miria could sense that, Galatea should have noticed too.

And as for your point about the male AB torturing Miria, I just looked at the pages again and I think you're probably right. (It could be a combination of both.) Also, wow that looks painful.

[iabstainonmyshirt]

Originally Posted by irvinethearcher

@chibamonster
Do you think it would work out for clarice in the same way like clare? I have my doubts because clare is more than the successor of theresa's flesh. Her personality, her goals and her luck let her survive and become that strong not only theresas powers.

Pros to the idea :I read on some forum that the author named clarice to allude to clare. Clarice is a derivitive of Clare (i tink) n she's #47. If that's a coincidence it's a big coincidence (that's what she said).

Pros to the idea she still has hair color: brown, clare had light brown hair

-Clarice has the same ability (to a weaker degree, though) as Clare and Teresa: reading Yoki flow. When facing off, she says "Why can't I read Yokis in times like this?" suggesting she has the ability, but pressure weakens her ability to. If she had Clare's flesh (therefore teresa's flesh) it would ensure that the org still had a hold on a teresa expirement.

Pros to the idea I like it

Con: if she's from Clare's flesh instead of teresa's Would the org go as far as produce a 1/8 yoma? I don't know if they're that desperate. (well, raki mite become a male claymore, n yall know how the first batch of those turned out)

-if clare: She's weak! 7/8 human is almost asking for a beheading

Theories stemming from the theory (only a theory, mind u): The org is getting more courageous in their expirements. either their willing to experiment with another 1/4 or go further with a 1/8 yoma.

-If clarice is 1/2 teresa, the org still has teresa's body. (from here, a possible return of the faint smile? probly not going to happen, but i'm a dreamer)

if 1/2 clare, the org is crazy for doing this, but teresa's body is long gone, and the only flesh remaining from her is on clare's tattered old uniforms.

-if clarice is 1/2 teresa, she would be able to form a soul link with clare like an alicia-beth bond since they have the same yoma flesh and partly similar human flesh. if clarice was formed from clare, the bond would be even stronger (but probly only as much as raf/luci)

-if the org still suspects that clare is still alive, clarice could be used to awaken clare n bring her back to the dark side (clare, i am ur sister)

Originally Posted by chibamonster

...
I think it is more likely that Clarice is 1/2 Luciella than Teresa because she has hair color and AB's regain their hair color where Clare lost hers and I think Tabitha would have sensed a simmilarity to Clare if Clarice had Irene or Teresa in her, but I would imagine that the principles are simmilar in that Clarice really does not have much youki. For Clarice she really did not have much motivating her until she met Miata. Mostly people making fun of her for being weak, getting destroyed, and miraculously saved. With meeting Miata she is needed as a mother figure and even though she is weaker she obviously has some very strong feelings for the little girl who is willing to give her life for her mama. We do not know her history yet but it might be even worse than Clares. But I do think Clare and Clarice's personality is very different and that will probably work out differently for them. I would love to see Raphaela in a situation where she was forced to soul link again with someone who had the same signature as her sister as that would really really mess with her mind. Also with Clarice's relationship with Miata I think some strong attachments could forge a very strong personality in Clarice in the same way a relationship with Teresa formed one in Clare.

I was thinking pricilla cuz the hair is the same style. in the manga world, ur hair style and make up is genetically encoded in ur dna.
But i thought awakened+human=abyss feeders...

unrelated theory: dae takes raki becuz his immunity from infection=immunity from male awakening symdrome (MAS i coined it first!)

[niwre-san]

you guys think the stats are right for Luciela. i have no idea.

Spoiler for pic:

[FormerAbyssalone]

I not sure of the abyssals actual stats, all of luciela's seem right other than her strength might be "SSS". But either way I like it a lot, can't wait for it 2 be colored.

[niwre-san]

Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone

I not sure of the abyssals actual stats, all of luciela's seem right other than her strength might be "SSS". But either way I like it a lot, can't wait for it 2 be colored.

yeah the strength was the one i wasnt sure of.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by niwre-san

yeah the strength was the one i wasnt sure of.

Well, when it comes to the Abyssals; Riful and Luciella are in the lower tier, followed by Alicia and Isley, so as long as you got that, the rest can be worked with pretty easily.

Luciella is about speed and close-combat ability....so strength, I have to argue as well, could be SSS .

[Ryus]

Strength =SSS

Though I'm not sure why any character would have an Intelligence greater than S... however it was posted in the data book, so whatever I guess (and Dauf earned a C... WTF!?!?! is up with that... hate to see an F scored character). INT=SS fits Luciela, not a dumbass but not brilliant either. Though at the same time Priscilla earned a SS for intelligence and she seemed to have figured out the orgs goal with her comments about the org wanting the twins to be mindless... however that AB chick Dauf killed who was in Jean's part earned a S for intelligence and she seemed as dumb as Dauf.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Strength =SSS

Though I'm not sure why any character would have an Intelligence greater than S... however it was posted in the data book, so whatever I guess (and Dauf earned a C... WTF!?!?! is up with that... hate to see an F scored character). INT=SS fits Luciela, not a dumbass but not brilliant either. Though at the same time Priscilla earned a SS for intelligence and she seemed to have figured out the orgs goal with her comments about the org wanting the twins to be mindless... however that AB chick Dauf killed who was in Jean's part earned a S for intelligence and she seemed as dumb as Dauf.

It is a little weird...S by all accounts, is brilliant, so it's basically which genius is smarter then who...I get the feeling that Yagi went a little overboard with the "S"'s because these were the abyssal ones .

Katea? Did she even speak? Why would you think she was dumb? .

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Katea? Did she even speak? Why would you think she was dumb? .

She just didn't try to flee or plead for her life (so it's the lack of talking or action of why I think she is dumb). She just sat there waiting for Dauf to play smash with her skull, she didn't even try to attack him again or deflect the chop. Dauf just held his hands in the air and she sat there waiting, while the chop was quick the set up was long enough for her to try something... Doing nothing when your about to die is far stupider then trying something that likely won't work, after all that was her last chance to show off and get Riful to change her mind.

BTW... Dauf interlocked his fingers... what a twit.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Why is Dauf a twit for interlocking his fingers?? BTW: Dauf isn't all dumb, he did manage 2 survive 80+ years after he awakend and he out-lived Isley and Rigaldo!

Edit: After reviewing stats... I propose a battle!!! Who would win Rapalea/Luciela(claymore)vs Alicia/Beth??

Any takers? I got Rapaela/Luciela.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone

Edit: After reviewing stats... I propose a battle!!! Who would win Rapalea/Luciela(claymore)vs Alicia/Beth??

Any takers? I got Rapaela/Luciela.

Battle would come down to whether or not one of them (Luciela/Raphaela) could hold off Awakened Alicia long enough while the other attempts wound/distract Beth. If they could pull that off Beth wound be too drained to continue controlling Alicia's awakened form. So as long as they back down from pressuring Beth once she's wounded Alicia would revert rather than Awaken fully, once this happens they could tag team Alicia and together defeat her. After all Beth should be too exhausted to join in Alicia's defense... and then Luciela/Raphaela could easily mop up Beth.

However that is a lot of ifs... I'd place my money on Alicia and Beth due to us witnessing Raphaela's memories freaking out over Beth's ability to dodge attacks when linked. This pause would likely happen in a Alicia/Beth vs Luciela/Raphaela fight too, thus allowing Alicia to gain the upper hand and defeat one of the sisters before they could wound Beth.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Alright, what if u take out the whole Alicia awakening via soul-link and it came down 2 a fight of swordsman.... I mean swordswoman ship? Who would win then?

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone

Alright, what if u take out the whole Alicia awakening via soul-link and it came down 2 a fight of swordsman.... I mean swordswoman ship? Who would win then?

Swordsmanship wise it's a tie but with each having a different style... Alicia and Beth would likely work better in a team if only by a slim margin. However Luciela and Raphaela could likely do some out side to box thinking unlike the twins which are very straight forward in there styles. It would all come down to the difference in there respected power levels, Alicia and Beth likely winning due to this though Luciela and Raphaela would have a chance of winning. Sword style though Alicia seemed to be in favor of whittling down opponents by hacking off limbs when Raphaela went straight for the head... So it would come down to who makes the first mistake (leave the first opening) and if the other side can capitalize on it before Alicia's and Beth's likely higher level of yoki could win a protracted fight. Just remember in a two on two fight things can get interesting... it can go 2vs2, to 1(A)vs1(L) and 1(B)vs1(R), to 1(A)vs1(R) and 1(B)vs1(L), to 2vs 1 while the other one person on a random side slips up (if even for a moment)... the possibilities in 2 vs 2 are far more based on chance and team work, than in 1 vs 1 fights

I'd place the odds at a liberal 75% to 25% (60% to 40% as my conservative guess) in favor of the twins.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Originally Posted by Ryus

Swordsmanship wise it's a tie but with each having a different style... Alicia and Beth would likely work better in a team if only by a slim margin. However Luciela and Raphaela could likely do some out side to box thinking unlike the twins which are very straight forward in there styles. It would all come down to the difference in there respected power levels, Alicia and Beth likely winning due to this though Luciela and Raphaela would have a chance of winning. Sword style though Alicia seemed to be in favor of whittling down opponents by hacking off limbs when Raphaela went straight for the head... So it would come down to who makes the first mistake (leave the first opening) and if the other side can capitalize on it before Alicia's and Beth's likely higher level of yoki could win a protracted fight. Just remember in a two on two fight things can get interesting... it can go 2vs2, to 1(A)vs1(L) and 1(B)vs1(R), to 1(A)vs1(R) and 1(B)vs1(L), to 2vs 1 while the other one person on a random side slips up (if even for a moment)... the possibilities in 2 vs 2 are far more based on chance and team work, than in 1 vs 1 fights

I'd place the odds at a liberal 75% to 25% (60% to 40% as my conservative guess) in favor of the twins.

Alright I'll accept that. The only drawback to 2vs2 is that it could be turned into 2vs1 if one makes a mistake.

A little off topic... But I play smash bros brawl and I'm not afraid of the 2vs1!! yeah i'm a beast like that.

[Ryuken]

[QUOTE=Ryus;3062176]Strength =SSS

Pretty much agree with you there @Ryus, I would give her an additional S for intelligence and cut the plus in her Yoki stat.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Riful could get SSS for her int stat. She was way more of a schemer than Isley.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone

Riful could get SSS for her int stat. She was way more of a schemer than Isley.

not really Isley out smarted her with having Priscilla lol one of the few times Riful actually got angry.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

not really Isley out smarted her with having Priscilla lol one of the few times Riful actually got angry.

When it comes to intellect, Riful and Isley are comparable to Miria and Galatea; Riful is a better tactician, and Isley is a better strategist.

Overall, I would give Isley the extra "S"; SS for Riful, and SSS and Isley.

[FormerAbyssalone]

Strategist and Tatiction whats the difference?