Aquarion EVOL - generic discussion thread

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

No, not really - I'm not "hoping" for a good ending, more like, I think we'll have a good ending. Well, hoping for it inasmuch as I would be very disappointed if it ended the same way as Genesis, simply because we've already seen that. If I was in charge of writing Evol (which I'm obviously not) I wouldn't want to just replay Genesis in a different setting. New show, do something new with it, and what would be a better twist than breaking the 24000 yr-old "curse" in one way or another?

Let me rephrase this: given Kawamori's track record, I wouldn't hold those hopes too high. He has a problem with plots after the halfway point, and Frontier is kinda my proof of this. Now, I'll say that you probably have a different view of the series as I did plot-wise, but after Ranka left with the Vajra, I saw a large plot hole regarding the war itself, as the Vajra vanished but Frontier was still planning on going after them even given their lack of resources. This did not answer a lot of questions that entered after the Vajra "disappeared" in Ep21.

So, in short, don't get your hopes up for a "good ending" in terms of plot or story because he'll likely troll you.

Re: Kawamori. I loved how Escaflowne ended, I loved how Macross F ended (the TV series, I mean), I also liked the end of other Macross shows I've seen (not that I found them particularly bittersweet), and I also liked how Aquarion ended (not for the romance, though - at the danger of stepping on some toes here, I didn't "feel" the Apollo x Silvia romance at all, and I found that the most interesting figure in the whole Apollonius x Celiane romantic mess was none other than Touma). So it's not that I'm against all these. I'm not against bittersweet endings, either. It's just that in case of Aquarion Evol it would be disappointingly un-creative and boring, and I wouldn't want that.

Let me be a little clear here (and this isn't to be mean or rude, just to clarify), when I speak of Macross Frontier, I am referring to the movies now. Because that is the end of Frontier, as much as I'd love to see more of lovely Ranka in the future, even as a standalone character. The bittersweet ending is also the second one he's done for the Macross series in a row, if you add Zero to the equation.

But I agree on the whole Apollonius and Celienne thing. I didn't really feel it either. I didn't even feel Apollo and Silvia. But for some odd reason, I felt like Kawamori was saying "you have to go beyond the actual term 'love' of nowadays." In short, it's more soulful than emotional. And so, looking at it that way and what they sacrifice for each other, I came to see the feelings between them. The lack of romance, or what we consider nowadays is needed for a working relationship, is just excluded for the fact it is either not needed or there isn't enough time given the problems that occur in the story.

However, on Escaflowne, I was slightly disappointed upon the series ending, as I don't see how we'd call that bittersweet given the fact they might (and I would capitalize that "might") never meet again. I couldn't believe I'd watched that one to the end... because I didn't have enough tissue. The movie... now that was a complete failure. I was so confused that I kept laughing and couldn't take it seriously. Character role changes... everything.

But Aquarion movies (or OVAs) haven't been that way, so hopefully if they make a movie of Aquarion EVOL (which seems likely given most of his series lately have been adapted into movies), it'll be similar to the series enough.

(Let's just hope they don't do it as messed up as the Frontier movies... considering by the end we don't know who the villains are and Galaxy STILL survives.)

Also, you don't make an Aquarion show with a title that says LOVE backwards only to have it end with lovers being dead/apart from each other. Seriously, I want to see a huge, cheesy "LOVE SAVES THE DAY" in the end. (Admittedly the triangles don't help here because unless my True Ending becomes canon someone will end up having to withdraw, but eh, by "lovers" I mean "actual couples in love with each other.")

I agree. I'm actually hoping that the show has a good ending romantically. I know I said I wouldn't ship, but in the case of which couple I would prefer based on personalities, so far Amata and Mikono still have my vote. Perhaps future episodes will change that, as we're only at episode 10, but I stick by it for now.

Btw, at this point I really don't care about who is the reincarnation of whom, because these are new characters with their own personalities. I would be disappointed if they turned to be bogged down by previous incarnations. :/

Like I said above, one has to kinda push away the romance that is needed nowadays for romance. Kawamori wants you to see those two as soulmates rather than two people in love just for the sake of it. And so, "romance" is not needed. But I guess it's to "each their own" opinion in this case.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Escaflowne, Macross Zero, Macross Frontier movies, original Aquarion. These all had virtually the same kind of ending in regards to the lovers. So give us something different. Give us a nice, happy, lovey-dovey ending where Amata and his girl (preferrably Mikono for me ) get together and have kiddies. At this point in Kawamori's career, a cheesy lovers' ending would actually be unique for one of his works.

As of late, Kawamori is on a roll, considering Macross Zero and Frontier both came after one another, and they both had similar endings. So I doubt that'll change. Don't keep your fingers crossed. But still hold some hope. I keep thinking he'll change too, but I've been proven wrong by the Frontier movies... so I'm kinda gonna say, don't hold your hopes too high.

But you know what amazes me is that I remember you were a Sheryl fan over on the Frontier side. So what makes you like Mikono? She reminds me a lot of Ranka with her shy attitude, albeit she has a bit more backbone and attitude. If you don't mind my asking, what do you like about Mikono?

[Arya]

At first when I heard of another Aquarion I thought, why? For me the first series was nothing to be worth of being remembered. So I said to myself that to have something interesting writers needed to disentangle the story from the Apollonius x Celiane stuffs. And, but that was a my personal hope, have Apollo as a villain. So far it is what I'm getting. And having evol love in the title could be mean, in part, that they evolved from that concept to another more consistent
I know that tomorrow everything could change, but this is the feeling I'm having from this show so far, and I think it is the right think to do to give Aquarion a second chance.

Spoiler for Macross F.:

To tell the truth to me Ranka was never an option, she was more like a child (no offences intended, more a matter of taste) so I was never able to see her as a real rival. So having in mind that (and that pink/sing princesses always win) for me MF, series tv and Movie, had a quite consistent plot in the romance department (even because I was never sure of the triangle resolution until the end of the tv Series). And in this series I associated immediately Ranka to Zessica, first for the resemblance and second for the *aura*, you know, I mean, to not being the first in line, or so it seems so far, and in case she will turn herself on Atlair... I don't guess she will, BTW.

[miketyson]

FWIW: This probably isn't right:

14话　个の先

...just because 个 isn't normally used in Japanese (it's the simplified version of 個). Even if you put it back to 個 I can't help you either because I don't have any real clue about what 個の先 might mean.

[mayumi]

mikono-amata as a pairing starts out in this series where apollo-silvia left off 12000 years ago. mikono-amata don't do the banter-hate turning to love kind of relationship like apollonius-celiane and appolo-silvia did in their first meetings.

mikono-amata learning form the mistakes of 24000 years(ova and tv series) can keep a lid on their feelings and always stay on the edge of love, never going across the threshold. they are like old married couple and thats fine cause courting already happened twice in the past. but being only 16 already acting like a married couple can be boring at times. even if thats how it is in real life :P

i believe kagura and zessica give that extra passion that apollonius and celiane had. but a triangle of kagura-mikono-amata or zessica(if her feelings are full blown out)-amata-mikono could cause what happened again in the case of apollonius and celiane in ova. basically destruction.

perhaps this whole love theme is about love and passion. how to seperate them. in the end perhaps mikono-amata do get their happy ending cause their love is in control and won't cause destruction so perhaps they will be left behind this time while kagura, zessica, mikage/shrade/cayenne die.

in general i preferred apollo-silvia and apollonius-celiane cause i got to see their beginnings. amata-mikono always felt they just fell in love cause its a continuation of where silvia-apollo left off. they don't appeal to me as characters either even if i can understand what might be kawamori's message about love and passion. perhaps their characters had to be cute and boring otherwise it might lead to too much chemistry and passion again.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

But you know what amazes me is that I remember you were a Sheryl fan over on the Frontier side. So what makes you like Mikono? She reminds me a lot of Ranka with her shy attitude, albeit she has a bit more backbone and attitude. If you don't mind my asking, what do you like about Mikono?

Say what? I....actually didn't spend much time at all in the Macross Frontier threads. Nor did I really have a whole ton of interest in the triangle. (I just couldn't find either of the heroines terribly to my liking for some reason) If I had to choose a side, I was a Ranka fan (and I did actually say this at one point a long time ago back when the TV series was airing, in one of my rare posts on Macross Frontier), though I knew right from the beginning that Sheryl was going to win. As soon as I saw that opening shot in episode 1, the first thought that crossed my mind was "Oh, here's the winner." I had no basis, just a hunch. A hunch that turned out to be right, though. My hunch just got stronger as the series, and then the movies, went on; the way she was portrayed in the story and plot just seemed to all unfold like she was to be the one who won Alto's heart.

Yeah, Mikono (timid and lacking in confidence) = Ranka and Zessica (outgoing and plenty of confidence) = Sheryl. But I can say that the reason I like Mikono isn't because she's like Ranka, though I couldn't really tell you what makes me like her more at the moment. It's just one of those "feeling" things. Although I wouldn't mind Zessica winning really; I actually like her character too. I just like Mikono more, and thus would prefer her to win.

[Chaos2Frozen]

For the record, I was a Sheryl fan too (But I don't hate/dislike Ranka)

I also liked both Hiromi and Noe, as well as supported Ko with Ohana Just in case this factors in somehow.

Originally Posted by mayumi

mikono-amata learning form the mistakes of 24000 years(ova and tv series) can keep a lid on their feelings and always stay on the edge of love, never going across the threshold. they are like old married couple and thats fine cause courting already happened twice in the past. but being only 16 already acting like a married couple can be boring at times. even if thats how it is in real life :P

Hmmm... Not really though, if they were like married couples they should be fighting alot more Amata gives in too easily and in doing so denies me of delicious lovers' quarrel. But I do understand what you mean, looking at the last two episodes in some ways Amata-Mikono were acting like the 'old married couple' trying to set up the 'new couples' and giving them the opportunity to grow. Mikono was trying to get Mix to accept Andy, while Amata... Well, he helped dig a hole to (inadvertently) let Jin meet with Yunoha

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Arya

Spoiler for Macross F.:

To tell the truth to me Ranka was never an option, she was more like a child (no offences intended, more a matter of taste) so I was never able to see her as a real rival. So having in mind that (and that pink/sing princesses always win) for me MF, series tv and Movie, had a quite consistent plot in the romance department (even because I was never sure of the triangle resolution until the end of the tv Series). And in this series I associated immediately Ranka to Zessica, first for the resemblance and second for the *aura*, you know, I mean, to not being the first in line, or so it seems so far, and in case she will turn herself on Atlair... I don't guess she will, BTW.

Spoiler for Macross Frontier:

Not to be rude, but in terms of mentioning Ranka was to say I wanted to see more of her - just her. There was also no love triangle stated in my post. It was a regards towards the ending (which I never said was either couple). And I guess you could say that I was talking towards Alto and Sheryl. But I also contrasted Shin and Sara. And so, you kinda avoided the point for the first half of your post here.

With regards to plot, the series did fall apart in the second half. The first half seemed spontaneous with the plot, I agree. It was high school drama for quite a few episodes with a little action here and there; but it had a plot that was building up. However, when Ranka leaves in 21, this plot falls apart, as there were four episodes left to explain all the details needed to unravel Galaxy's plan for the Vajra and Frontier's plan of dealing with it. Sadly, it was never given enough concrete evidence in the series that the Vajra really were there to rescue Ranka at first. Nor was there concrete evidence that Frontier never started the war themselves (meaning attacked first or not). Because of this, it left a lot of plot holes that the movies cleaned up.

However, the movies make more plot holes. Sheryl and Ranka are both from Galia 4 but it never explains why. Galaxy is still alive in the end. Alto goes MIA. But the biggest plot hole is still the Vajra's intentions. Also, a small one is how Brera became an android, or how Grace made him into one. There are still a lot of plot holes in the movies. But the movies have a more straightforward plot. I will say that they do horribly at the romance, considering they put so little effort into the first movie and reused recycled footage from the series for most of it, and then they come around in the second movie and it's like we've picked up where the series ended. So I felt like the series was better than the movies due to how the plot and romance moved along. In the movies, it felt like it was all one direction romance-wise and the plot was more secure whilst the series seemed to give more implications towards triangle with a rather good plot that fell apart towards the second half and defiantly in the final four episodes.

It's all a matter of opinion really.

As regards to romance, I mostly refer to where the directors were taking you. For instance, Ranka's first point of interest romantically was Ep1 then 3, Sheryl's was Ep5-7, Ranka's was 10, Sheryl's was 11 and parts of 12, Ranka's was 12-14, and triangular at 15.
- I'm sure you get the pattern by now. They balanced whereas the movies were not.
And remember for a moment that one has to be in Alto's shoes to actually know if he saw Ranka or Sheryl romantically. The directors, in the series, gave Alto both sides of the triangle. He had romantic feelings for both. However, it is whom was strongest (or whom the directors preferred in some cases) that won the triangle. It is not a matter of whom looked more "childish" in that sense.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

If I had to choose a side, I was a Ranka fan (and I did actually say this at one point a long time ago back when the TV series was airing, in one of my rare posts on Macross Frontier),

If you remember back, I said I didn't read the posts whilst it was airing. Actually, I didn't see it until all the episodes were on BR. So I wasn't completely aware which girl you supported, but I remember you argued with me about liking Sheryl at some point, can't remember which post off the top of my head. I remember your signature though. Sorry if I didn't get that right though.

Spoiler for Frontier, Sheryl or Ranka:

though I knew right from the beginning that Sheryl was going to win. As soon as I saw that opening shot in episode 1, the first thought that crossed my mind was "Oh, here's the winner." I had no basis, just a hunch. A hunch that turned out to be right, though. My hunch just got stronger as the series, and then the movies, went on; the way she was portrayed in the story and plot just seemed to all unfold like she was to be the one who won Alto's heart.

I still disagree about the "winning Alto's heart" thing. The only thing I see is that the directors pushed her in that direction. Whenever she'd get emotionally serious with Alto, it wouldn't seem like her character. That wasn't Sheryl Nome to me. And so I cannot say that I agree that she "won his heart" but rather that the directors wanted her to "win his heart."

Out of it all, I saw more interest in Ranka from Alto. Up until the second half of the series, Ranka was the only one whom Alto worried about both physically and emotionally. He gave a lot of concern towards her mental state and health. Meanwhile, Sheryl had real trouble but he failed to notice. And when Ranka finally leaves in the second half of the series, Alto finally shows attention towards Sheryl's illness only after finding it out from Klan (which again proves his lack of awareness). Even then, he still lingers with thoughts and feelings for Ranka. And so, in closing, I don't see it as "winning his heart" for Sheryl.

Now, I could say that I see it as a potential for the future, but Alto has to become more aware of her problems and health conditions, or at least show interest in learning.

I agree on the hunch part. It didn't have anything to do with Sheryl's build in the first episode or that she was a main character but rather because of the way the songs were sung in duets. Sheryl always got more lyrics, was given better stock footage, and always had the romantic lines even if it seemed like Ranka deserved them more. It became a pattern. Also, the pattern of names came into play with the very song that had a "fight on stage," Triangular: Ranka to Sheryl (1st chorus) then Sheryl to Ranka (2nd chorus) and finally Ranka to Sheryl (3rd chorus). It fit the series turning point well. Had they bounced back in the final four episodes, I would've been so shocked at Kawamori that I would've personally flown to Japan and given him a big hug.

But it didn't happen. Doesn't mean I lost my flag for Alto and Ranka. I'm still their supporter.

Yeah, Mikono (timid and lacking in confidence) = Ranka and Zessica (outgoing and plenty of confidence) = Sheryl. But I can say that the reason I like Mikono isn't because she's like Ranka, though I couldn't really tell you what makes me like her more at the moment. It's just one of those "feeling" things. Although I wouldn't mind Zessica winning really; I actually like her character too. I just like Mikono more, and thus would prefer her to win.

And yet certain people say Mikono is not like Ranka. I wonder if they actually knew Ranka or were just in it for the cuteness.

Ranka was timid, shy, and lacked self-confidence but was also very strong when she needed (or wanted) to be. She had a backbone. Just look at Ep15 for a good example. Instead of giving up on Alto, she decides to sing and fight for her man against Sheryl Nome, the Galactic Fairy and best singer so far. She also went to Galia 4 to sing, to save Alto and Sheryl from the rebels. Whilst these traits are often overlooked (in terms of fans) by her seemingly childish attitude, others in the show have perceived them as points of growth. Her decisions seem stupid to the fans (especially to leave with Brera) but to those in the show, it is seen as her adult decisions - or choosing her own destiny, as Ozma put it.

Mikono is more than just timid, shy, and lacking self-confidence; she also lacks self-awareness of her own strengths, abilities, or powers. She has a good, strong character that I could see growing, but she lacks that backbone. Instead, she allows things to fly by or drop, and gets upset at Amata for what I consider childish reasons (for she never asks for the explanations to those certain scenes from him directly). I can say that I partly blame Amata for not just coming out and stating his intentions or explaining the misunderstandings. But Mikono lacks the strengths that I found in Ranka. She wants to help, doesn't want to be a burden, but also fails to be of much help. Unlike the Galia 4 incident, when Mikono comes in to help Amata and Cayenne, she actually doesn't help but instead is unable to out of fear, whereas Ranka swallowed her fear and did her job till the end. So I view them as slightly different characters.

However, one thing I like about Mikono that Ranka didn't have was the ability to state when the man did something wrong (or given an expression of annoyance and hurt). Ranka did not do this with Alto. Mikono does so with Amata.

I like Mikono not only because she reminds me of Ranka but also because she is simply the type of girl I like to find in anime. I've always liked the shy and timid type. But should Mikono start showing a backbone towards Zessica soon, I'll love her for real.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

For the record, I was a Sheryl fan too (But I don't hate/dislike Ranka)

Most did. However, they found the worst reasons to dislike her. A good example is her choice to leave in Ep21. So I'm very careful about making friends with Sheryl fans because I don't like haters. I don't hate Sheryl so why should I make friends with people whom hate Ranka? You get my point, right?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Mikono is more than just timid, shy, and lacking self-confidence; she also lacks self-awareness of her own strengths, abilities, or powers. She has a good, strong character that I could see growing, but she lacks that backbone. Instead, she allows things to fly by or drop, and gets upset at Amata for what I consider childish reasons (for she never asks for the explanations to those certain scenes from him directly). I can say that I partly blame Amata for not just coming out and stating his intentions or explaining the misunderstandings. But Mikono lacks the strengths that I found in Ranka. She wants to help, doesn't want to be a burden, but also fails to be of much help. Unlike the Galia 4 incident, when Mikono comes in to help Amata and Cayenne, she actually doesn't help but instead is unable to out of fear, whereas Ranka swallowed her fear and did her job till the end. So I view them as slightly different characters.

That doesn't make sense, all three fights that Mikono activating took part in she has contributed in her own nothing-too-flashy-but-more-than-significant ways. I never saw her unable to help out of fear.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Most did. However, they found the worst reasons to dislike her. A good example is her choice to leave in Ep21. So I'm very careful about making friends with Sheryl fans because I don't like haters. I don't hate Sheryl so why should I make friends with people whom hate Ranka? You get my point, right?

I do, it's the same as here all over again. Mikono fans don't hate Zessica, but the opposite doesn't hold true.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

So, in short, don't get your hopes up for a "good ending" in terms of plot or story because he'll likely troll you.

Eh, as I said before, I don't believe in "trolling." I believe in writers being good or bad or mediocre, screwing up or not screwing up plotlines, etc. I'm not terribly invested in a good end or whatever, I just hope that I won't be disappointed by a plot we've seen before, and a predictable end that is a rehash of the end of Genesis. As for Kawamori, I know him well enough, but on the other hand people tend to forget that he's not the only creative mind behind his projects. (Escaflowne, for example, was as much Akane Kazuki's brainchild as Kawamori's - to the point where I felt that Noein was like a darker sister to Esca, despite the lack of giant robots.)

As for Macross Frontier, I don't care for the movies so I tend to ignore them. The reason I loved how the series ended was that I thought it was a good twist on the usual love triangle ending (plus I found the Sheryl-Ranka interaction much more interesting than either girl's romance with Alto). I found the movies disappointing precisely because it turned out that the series' end wasn't really a twist, only a hook for a boringly typical ending. Yawn.

I liked Escaflowne's ending specially because it wasn't boring and predictable. Also, I thought it was very well-done and well-thought out: Hitomi and Van had their own lives and responsibilities in their own worlds. An adventure and a love of a lifetime, a beautiful memory - I think in Esca's case this trumped a "happily ever after" ending. (And I like "happily ever after" endings!) I didn't like the movie until I had to translate it - then, going into it a bit deeper, I found that it was pretty good on its own. Not as good as the series which is, as far as I'm concerned, the most perfect anime ever made, but it was okay.

Re: Aquarion, I got the soulful part, and I liked what the anime was trying to say, it's just that I didn't really buy the Apollo x Silvia romance, not even the soulmate thing. It started developing too late, felt a bit forced with the revelations about them being reincarnations, and really, they were just too young - I don't remember how old they were supposed to be, but to me they really were children. (This is different in Evol: the characters are teenagers but they have the usual anime-age thing going on.) So as far as I was concerned it could've been anyone: Sirius and Reika, Reika and Tsugumi, Apollo and Sirius, anyone. The Apollonius x Celiane thing was a little better because they had an actual story and whatnot, but even there Touma was the only character who had any real weight and presence. (As for the OVA, I don't really care about them - they just took themselves way too seriously.)

/Off-topic

Also: please please please don't let Evol's fandom turn into Macross F's. -_-) The character hate and bashing turned me off that fandom entirely. :/

[Arya]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Spoiler for Macross Frontier:

Not to be rude, but in terms of mentioning Ranka was to say I wanted to see more of her - just her. There was also no love triangle stated in my post. It was a regards towards the ending (which I never said was either couple). And I guess you could say that I was talking towards Alto and Sheryl. But I also contrasted Shin and Sara. And so, you kinda avoided the point for the first half of your post here.

With regards to plot, the series did fall apart in the second half. The first half seemed spontaneous with the plot, I agree. It was high school drama for quite a few episodes with a little action here and there; but it had a plot that was building up. However, when Ranka leaves in 21, this plot falls apart, as there were four episodes left to explain all the details needed to unravel Galaxy's plan for the Vajra and Frontier's plan of dealing with it. Sadly, it was never given enough concrete evidence in the series that the Vajra really were there to rescue Ranka at first. Nor was there concrete evidence that Frontier never started the war themselves (meaning attacked first or not). Because of this, it left a lot of plot holes that the movies cleaned up.

However, the movies make more plot holes. Sheryl and Ranka are both from Galia 4 but it never explains why. Galaxy is still alive in the end. Alto goes MIA. But the biggest plot hole is still the Vajra's intentions. Also, a small one is how Brera became an android, or how Grace made him into one. There are still a lot of plot holes in the movies. But the movies have a more straightforward plot. I will say that they do horribly at the romance, considering they put so little effort into the first movie and reused recycled footage from the series for most of it, and then they come around in the second movie and it's like we've picked up where the series ended. So I felt like the series was better than the movies due to how the plot and romance moved along. In the movies, it felt like it was all one direction romance-wise and the plot was more secure whilst the series seemed to give more implications towards triangle with a rather good plot that fell apart towards the second half and defiantly in the final four episodes.

It's all a matter of opinion really.

As regards to romance, I mostly refer to where the directors were taking you. For instance, Ranka's first point of interest romantically was Ep1 then 3, Sheryl's was Ep5-7, Ranka's was 10, Sheryl's was 11 and parts of 12, Ranka's was 12-14, and triangular at 15.
- I'm sure you get the pattern by now. They balanced whereas the movies were not.
And remember for a moment that one has to be in Alto's shoes to actually know if he saw Ranka or Sheryl romantically. The directors, in the series, gave Alto both sides of the triangle. He had romantic feelings for both. However, it is whom was strongest (or whom the directors preferred in some cases) that won the triangle. It is not a matter of whom looked more "childish" in that sense.

Spoiler for Macross Frontier:

It wasnt my intention to rise any dead ships into the thread, probably I failed to express exactly what I meant to say, and surely I didn't mean bashing anyone My talking about Ranka was more to explain that with her childish behavior (so I felt it) I couldn't see her alike to any girl of Aquarion evol. You first noted that Mikono differs from Ranka for her being critical toward Amata. This is not a minor issue and that's the reason I see Mikono more mature and not alike to Ranka. But as I mentioned before, it is a matter of taste. :9
On the contrary I could say that Sheryl resembles more Zessica, but again I see Sheryl more mature. So I give different interpretations on their actions, Sheryl was more straightforward, she knew what she wanted, instead Zessica looks less conscious on what she want. Anyways in MF the romance was solid in fact I said that I wasn't sure til the end, or to be precise until Sheryl death flag was heavily evident and she was taken to Alto father house. That because they made the relationships looks believable and fair.

Talking about the plot, I consider here only the TV series because I also didn't like the movies, they changed to many things (just as a side note, they even got rid of that Ranka's behavior I was speaking about). Anyways I agree with you that the plot got messed up in the last episodes, but since I didn't enjoyed so much the mail plot there, I was less bothered by what they did near the end.

So speaking of love triangles I consider Macross frontier having a solid triangle dynamics, and even True tears had a solid triangle dynamic, the most solid and strong I could mention, I'd say. Even just the relation dynamics were good, putting aside triangles. Considering that, I can't see how they could give us now some twists without any basis, or just because he or she is the reincarnation of Apollonius or Celiane after giving us no clues at all for ten episodes.

In regard of happy endings I have a wide angle on what a happy ending could be. It has to imply that the characters reach each other in a way or another. So I liked, just to back to MF, how they ended the movies, it is the sole thing I liked probably. Instead Escaflowne's ending doesn't fall in that range. It was not satisfying, but quite sad. But at the same time probably the best, plot-wise. Can't rise any objections. Chrno Crusade had a bittersweet ending that could fall in that range in my book. I don't want a happy ending with marriage children flowers etc. But something that gives completeness to the story. That has at least a logic and it isn't out of the blue.

[miketyson]

"Trolling" by writers I do believe in, but most of what gets called trolling I wouldn't consider to be trolling.

What I'd consider to be trolling is when writers plan the story to go a certain way, but then put in scenes, dialog, etc., that the audience will almost certainly interpret as foreshadowing for the story going some other direction.

Thus: "the story not going the way you think it will" doesn't make for trolling. "The story seeming to include lots of ostensible foreshadowing for a path it didn't take (and not just because the writers changed their mind about the direction after awhile, either)" is what I'd say can be fairly called "trolling", but as it's necessarily something of a subjective judgment it's not worth arguing about whether or not a specific story or writer is trolling-heavy or not.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

But Jin doesn't know its name. Izumo and those pilot kept calling it Machine Angel.

I know. Which makes it all the more interesting that Kagura knows it's name. Does he know it because of Mykage? Or did he recognize it due to being a reincarnation?

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by miketyson

"Trolling" by writers I do believe in, but most of what gets called trolling I wouldn't consider to be trolling.

What I'd consider to be trolling is when writers plan the story to go a certain way, but then put in scenes, dialog, etc., that the audience will almost certainly interpret as foreshadowing for the story going some other direction.

Thus: "the story not going the way you think it will" doesn't make for trolling. "The story seeming to include lots of ostensible foreshadowing for a path it didn't take (and not just because the writers changed their mind about the direction after awhile, either)" is what I'd say can be fairly called "trolling", but as it's necessarily something of a subjective judgment it's not worth arguing about whether or not a specific story or writer is trolling-heavy or not.

A lot of people seem to think trolling = "story not going the way I wanted"

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

A lot of people seem to think trolling = "story not going the way I wanted"

OH GOD AIN'T THAT TRUTH. Macross Movies DID TROLL fans Although I expected Reiji and Elen to die because they killed too many people but what the hell was up with making Ein giggle as he died!!!! But that was BONES....

I just wish people would stop comparing other series to this one. The only thing that should be compared to EVOL is SNA the OS. NOT MACROSS

Some people who love Ranka do not like Mikono and some of us do. END. OF. STORY. Please MACROSS ENDED. Let's let it DIE....

@Kuromitsu...I can't argue with your opinion but how could you say Apollo and Silvia's relationship seemed "forced"? Did you complete the series or was it so long ago you can't remember a lot of details? She was a bro-con yes, but they were always together, and they cared about each other and she just had trouble accepting him so they spent several episodes an mini arcs devoted to their past love and she even displayed jealousy. When she finally accepts her feelings for him, Sirius hadn't even defected yet and when she declared him her most important person--she'd already accepted him and her feelings for him several episodes earlier. True Evol is more of a romantic comedy with less fights but the OS was just as much one but it had MOAR fights


I can't find the post but someone said something like

Silvia apologized to Toma in the OS

WRONG!!!!!

She apologizes to Apollonious for not being able to protect him FIRST. Because she's the reason he tore off his wings to protect her. Only she mistakenly assumed it was Sirius and she tries to reach him with her feelings and she hits Apollo instead.


JIN JIN JIN....his face is so expressive and I swear he might just become my favorite character. He's been wobbiefied and I LOVE HIM. I am also starting to like JinXYunoha more than all the pairings...Although I do love AndyXMix too

I need to see KAGURA nao!!!!!

Okay i slept all day and I can't function without Coffee and I am picky so the Dunkin Donuts in Queens where I live sucks which means I gotta drive to Nassau county and get coffee so I am ending this here. I forgot to post these

Click the thumbnails

I don't like the way that black bg makes the renders look because these are some really good renders!



and because Iron Mike (that was you right?) brought up "Cool Apollo" I thought I post my stash of vectors/renders from the OS




I will post the rest later --I need coffee and I have to sneak to Dave and Busters or Chilli's because I am not treating anyone this time. I do it all the time so they expect it every time and it's not gonna happen tonight

[Ypocaramel]

Originally Posted by miketyson

FWIW: This probably isn't right:

14话　个の先

...just because 个 isn't normally used in Japanese (it's the simplified version of 個). Even if you put it back to 個 I can't help you either because I don't have any real clue about what 個の先 might mean.

Can't figure it out in Chinese either.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

WRONG!!!!!

Gentlemen the example of a shipping fanboy we want to avoid.

Silvia said sorry to everybody as meeting Apollonius resulted to hatred, darkness and the world being destroyed as they know it... Being sorry doesn't mean she would take it back as she was glad they met.

Sirius the other half of Celiane especially felt sorry Toma for the pain he caused to him.

Toma realized he was such an ass to the humans he was also leading his race and the planet to their destruction.

Spoiler for ep 26 screenshots:

As seen in the OVA universe version of events Apollonius and Celiane and their later incarnations Apollo and Silvia were so wrapped around each other they don't notice the destruction around.

Hence the purpose of the Third Pilot who through his or her Partnership with the other two is meant to keep those two from destroying everything.

So Crea is right Bros before Holes. Neo Deava Elements will have to just figure that out on their own.

[satomianzaki]

for me, i hope it'll still be amata and mikono in the end...i love the chemistry between them...

and i liked sheryl from macross frontier...i cannot see mikono as ranka, more like zessica as ranka, because of the apperance...

i have nothing against zessica, but i hope they'll give her a more decent outfit...lol...
sorry...no offense to anyone that likes her, just a personal preference...

[Lord of Pandemonium]

HOT DAMN!!!!

Spoiler for Episode 11:

Kagura just used Apollo's move from the first episode in the series AND HE HAS WINGS ON HIS BACK!!!!!!!!



THAT IS APOLLON!!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!

[kuromitsu]

Before the freakout over the latest ep begins...

ETA - oops, I was late.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

@Kuromitsu...I can't argue with your opinion but how could you say Apollo and Silvia's relationship seemed "forced"? Did you complete the series or was it so long ago you can't remember a lot of details?

Oh come on. I may not remember every little detail, but I do remember that the Apollo x Silvia part was pretty mechanic. They did the whole bickering routine, fell in love because destiny said so, etc etc. Pretty standard stuff, and while that itself is not necessarily bad, it was kind of empty. I just didn't buy that it was supposed to be some huge, blazing, world-destroying love. (And for what it's worth, I though Apollo had more chemistry with Sirius.) At least with Apollonius and Celiane there was a backstory though even that was sketchy at best, and Touma's involvement provided all the weight it had.

Originally Posted by Ypocaramel

Can't figure it out in Chinese either.

Maybe it's just... an arrow? Pointing upwards? ^^;;;

[ReddyRedWolf]

Spoiler for ep 11:

Mykage: Good good feel the Jelly flow through you...

We may be wrong in our theories in several levels.

Years ago Izumo and Mykage worked together reaching Vega. There Izumo met and brought over Alisia but she went into a coma.

Mykage threatening Alisia in stasis Izumo unleashes his Element power much like an angry Apollo only in purple not red.

Mykage is puling a Papaltine on Kagura. He wants to awaken Apollon and Slyvie. (Not Apollo/Apollonius and Silvia/Celiane as we know them.)

To awaken the Aquarion.

So either Mykage is a later generation Shadow Angel like Futaba or in this parallel universe he is a version of Toma.

That's just the thing Altair may not be the OVA or TV universes. But some events are similar.

One thing is for sure Kagura, Mikono, Amata and Zessica are all connected.

Mikono had a vision of Amata taking Kagura's features. While Kagura on his mech was rampaging on Altair to reach her.

Zessica saw in the mirror Kagura and Mikono which then became indistinct silhouettes of Apollon and Sylvie. (Which are sort of like Apollo with wings and Celiane )

Kagura escapes thanks to Mykage.

Next ep the Digger Sisters!