To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Sumeragi]

Given that the majority of actual villains are lame..... is this a real problem? We cannot always have superpowered, charismatic masterminds when they're in short supply.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Given that the majority of actual villains are lame..... is this a real problem? We cannot always have superpowered, charismatic masterminds when they're in short supply.

Aritomi has the potential to become a decent villain, but lacking a certain qualities like charisma, creativity etc. that would make a villain looks lame.

[zaeraal]

Sadly, we have only 2 episodes left, so they can't now introduce something like a mastermind behind them..
But I am still hoping for Gensei to show up and show them how a "real villain" looks like.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Given that the majority of actual villains are lame..... is this a real problem? We cannot always have superpowered, charismatic masterminds when they're in short supply.

I think the difference in this case is that they have no "credentials" to them.

For example; Telestina is by no means a great mastermind as well, she is by all accounts a lame villain. BUT, she's also a Kihara, and we all know what they are capable off and that alone has people sitting up.

Level Five.
Kihara.
Board of Directors.

These kinds of titles have weight to them.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

For example; Telestina is by no means a great mastermind as well, she is by all accounts a lame villain.

I strongly disagree. I found Tessa to be an excellent villain during the last two episodes of the first season. I thought she had great screen presence, and posed a very good and challenging threat to Mikoto. She also has more charisma than Aritomi has shown thus far.

Tessa's a bit crazy, which undermines her, but she's also very dangerous and reasonably competent. She has a little bit of both Lex Luthor and The Joker to her character. Great villain.

Originally Posted by SilverTalon

All the more reason to leave her behind incase she needs to protect Febri.

Why does Febri need that sort of protection? Why the heck would these antagonists bother to come after her when Febri is set to die within 72 hours anyway?

And besides, even if Febri does need a lot of protection, why not entrust Kongou and her two friends with that?

And you are really overestimating Kuroko's worth in a fight that Mikoto is already present in.

No, I'm not. I'm not saying that Kuroko adds a lot to the chances of Mikoto winning a fight. What she does ensure, though, is that it's much less likely that Mikoto gets caught in a trap, or is unable to retreat from a fight. The only way Kuroko gets caught in a trap/can't retreat from a fight is if she's facing something on the level of Capacity Down.

Otherwise, she can teleport herself and Mikoto out of danger, if needed. That's a tremendously helpful fallback position to have in case you run into trouble.

The very limited number of people in AC that could actually push Mikoto into a corner could also swat Kuroko like a fly (because really Mikoto could too).

That's only if Kuroko lets them.

There is a range on her teleport, it isn't actually instantaneous, and there is serious danger in messing it up and teleporting into something.

That's not how it comes across in the anime. I have not once seen Kuroko screw up a teleport, and it certainly seems instantaneous to me. Recall how Kuroko dealt with the antagonists way back in Episode 1 of this season. Kuroko was quickly and rapidly teleporting all over the place in that episode. That certainly looked like effective and instantaneous teleportation to me.

Sure in most situations, no one involved really has a way to counter it, but in most situations Mikoto curb stomps everyone anyway. Also the only times Mikoto has had trouble so far were with capacity down (Kuroko is even more useless) and Accel so there really is no past example of a fight where Kuroko could have turned the tide from a loss or even provided an escape that the enemy party didn't allow.

That's incorrect. If Kuroko was with Mikoto during that fight with ITEM (in the Sisters arc), Kuroko could have teleported Mikoto to safety rather than Mikoto coming very close to getting killed by ITEM.

Kuroko also played a key role in the criminal apprehension in Episode 1 of this season. Mikoto alone probably doesn't manage to capture those criminals without actually killing them.

Taking her into a raid on a facility adds nothing. Even if she were there, glasses-kun would have insisted she be drugged too and if Mikoto went along with it, I don't see Kuroko disregarding her onee-sama's decision.

I strongly disagree. If Kuroko was there, she simply would have teleported over to Aritomi and taken the data from him. So Kuroko being on the raid on the facility would have added loads.

Besides, who says she would have had to be right next to Mikoto? Kuroko could have snuck behind and stalked Mikoto (in an useful way, for a change ) from a certain distance, staying on the lookout for dangers and traps. Doing so, she'd probably notice Aritomi before he even had a chance to entrap Mikoto.

[RPG_Fanatic]

I wish the writing and villains could have been better. Triple_R and dniv sum up the problems with this arc. It wouldn't be so bad if this was in the middle of the season, but for the final arc, it is really disappointing.

All I can hope for at this point is that we get some well animated action for the finale.

[Sackett]

Triple R

I don't disagree that Kuroko would be very useful to Mikoto on these missions. I just don't see how that addresses the reasons I gave as to why Mikoto wouldn't invite Kuroko along:

1: Mikoto's continuing reluctance to involve her friends in dangerous activities.
2: Kuroko being a member of Judgement makes involving her in illegal activities a bit risky.
to which I will add a third reason
3: Mikoto is still confident she can handle things like this on her own (and I don't disagree with her general assessment).

[Triple_R]

Actually, I don't know if I agree that Mikoto has a high reluctance to involve her friends in dangerous activities. I mean, look at the final arc of Season 1. Mikoto didn't object much to her friends coming along with her to try to take down Tessa. And Mikoto knew from first-hand experience just how dangerous Tessa is.

Now, I do think it's Mikoto's gut instinct to try to cake care of personal problems on her own, as we saw with the Sisters Arc. But Febri's situation is not just Mikoto's personal problem alone now. All of her friends are very involved in that already. I think it would make more sense if she similarly involved her friends in taking actions to try to save Febri.


Look, I'll tell you why this bothers me so much. I write fanfics a lot. And as a fanfic writer, I can tell you that it's actually not that hard to avoid these sorts of plot holes if you put a little bit of effort into it.

If the writer has to isolate Mikoto, then come up with something to keep Kuroko busy. Have Kuroko chase down a red herring perhaps. Or have it so that there's two possible locations that the antagonists could be at, and Mikoto and Kuroko split up going to different locations, which I wouldn't have a problem with given how time is of the essence.

Similarly, why not have Aritomi say to Mikoto, "Right now, we're being monitored by my associates. If you attack me, Railgun, then my associates will trigger an explosive that will kill Shinobu. I doubt you want her death on your conscience, am I right?"

Bang, done. Even if he's just bluffing, he could be telling the truth as far as Mikoto knows. His threat is not necessarily empty. Now Mikoto agreeing to get herself paralyzed is somewhat defensible.

See? I came up with that in 2 or 3 minutes. So I'm not going easy on the writers when it comes to this.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I strongly disagree. I found Tessa to be an excellent villain during the last two episodes of the first season. I thought she had great screen presence, and posed a very good and challenging threat to Mikoto. She also has more charisma than Aritomi has shown thus far.

Tessa's a bit crazy, which undermines her, but she's also very dangerous and reasonably competent. She has a little bit of both Lex Luthor and The Joker to her character. Great villain.

Way too much crazy. She also started revealing her goals before making herself sure she could make it. Thats a dumb villain.

Besides, who says she would have had to be right next to Mikoto? Kuroko could have snuck behind and stalked Mikoto (in an useful way, for a change ) from a certain distance, staying on the lookout for dangers and traps. Doing so, she'd probably notice Aritomi before he even had a chance to entrap Mikoto.

Unlike Mikoto who usually charges right away without thinking before, Kuroko is more calm and analyses the situaton from the distance.

Kuroko would have been a great help.

Again, is just bad writing like RPG Fanatic and others pointed out already.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Way too much crazy. She also started revealing her goals before making herself sure she could make it. Thats a dumb villain.

What I bolded is precisely what I meant by saying that her craziness undermined her. Tessa couldn't keep up the act any more, and let the mask slip due to her craziness. Yes, if she had kept the mask on, she might have pulled everything off without a hitch.

However, this doesn't mean she's a "dumb villain". It means that her insanity can backfire on her, but that's true of most characters with sanity issues.

Tessa is actually an extremely smart and competent villain. It's just that she's also a drama queen, and thus will ultimately prefer the flashy way of doing things. That, combined with her wacky villain faces and her frequent maniacal laughter, is why I said she has a little bit of The Joker in her.

The Joker is a great villain, one of the most popular of all-time. But there's no question that his psychological issues has undermined him at times. That doesn't mean he's a "dumb villain". And Tessa isn't a dumb villain either. She's an excellent villain, and I think you're being ridiculously hard on her over one psychologically-based mistake.

And while you might not like any crazy at all in your villains, an awful lot of people find that entertaining in their villains. I also often find that entertaining.

Unlike Mikoto who usually charges right away without thinking before, Kuroko is more calm and analyses the situaton from the distance.

Kuroko would have been a great help.

Agreed.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Sackett

It still came off as an eye rolling Idiot Ball moment, but it's at least semi-plausible that Mikoto would make such a foolish decision.

no really i just see it as really writing.

most Japanese Anime/Manga/LN/Game writers haven't figure out Good =/= stupid.

it always seem that if 3 choices were presented to the MC, the MC would always pick the most stupid.

[relentlessflame]

Some posts have been hidden from this thread because it is forbidden to discuss future content from the Index anime or anything from the Index Light Novels in this thread, whether behind spoiler tags or not. Some posts may be edited and restored later.

[dniv]

I would like to say though that I gave that review after being up for about 48 hours... so my review was somewhat harsh... The preview did bug me... but the rest of the episode was ok... It's fun to watch. It's just not as dark as the sisters arc was to me, that's all. Also, some parts of it just are slightly unbelievable, even though they're fine if Kamachi doesn't mind them enough to say they're not canon.

I was giving it a 10/10 even though I complained a lot because it really was only my lack of sleep was making me grouchy + more critical, it wasn't that I didn't actually like the episode that much

It was a good episode (without the preview). English subtitles made it somewhat better for me. The preview really was the only thing that I didn't like about it. I was fine with the scene with Mikoto giving up to protect the data (that was understandable to me).

I will say though that the villains definitely lack the gravitas, as you said, associated with what I was expecting. However, it is true that the rest of the season can change my mind. Two episodes were enough in season 1 to do just that after all.

In other words, it wasn't that bad, but like the rest of this arc it could have been so much better (though this part could improve much more than the sisters arc needed to).

The one real plus for this arc is all of the characters in it like Aogami Pierce, ITEM, Kongou's friends, and the others from the first season. The reason I was criticizing it so much in my last post was because in my sleep-deprived state I was analyzing this in terms of how I view Index not Railgun...

IMO the Sisters Arc makes up for any problems I have with this arc. It isn't that this isn't fun to watch... it's just not the best thing ever I was expecting it to be (if that makes sense).

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by dniv

I would like to say though that I gave that review after being up for about 48 hours... so my review was somewhat harsh... The preview did bug me... but the rest of the episode was ok... It's fun to watch. It's just not as dark as the sisters arc was to me, that's all. Also, some parts of it just are slightly unbelievable, even though they're fine if Kamachi doesn't mind them enough to say they're not canon.

...You call a 10/10 review harsh?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

...You call a 10/10 review harsh?

He's probably replying to me. I joked "That has to be the most critical review accompanying a 10/10 rating that I've ever read. "

By that, I was referring to what he actually wrote about the episode, not just the rating itself.

[Primary Consult]

Originally Posted by SilverTalon

Getting Kuroko involved was certainly a good idea because she has the potential to be very helpful in general. Taking her into a raid on a facility adds nothing. Even if she were there, glasses-kun would have insisted she be drugged too and if Mikoto went along with it, I don't see Kuroko disregarding her onee-sama's decision.

I disagree here. Recall in Season 1 Ep 24, it's fast but Kuroko teleports one of her spikes into Telestina's hand to make her drop the "first sample". This exact move here (make him drop the memory stick) would have eliminated villain-san's hostage. The "fight" would then be less than four seconds before one of the three there has the memory stick and the other two have subdued him.

A good reason to leave her out of the raid though is that she's even *more* hotheaded than Mikoto. She might have tried something like engaging ITEM (given her history of attacking thieves and robbers).

[Nvis]

I have a feeling Janie is a hottie.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I have a feeling Janie is a hottie.

I won't hope much but looking at how STUDY keep collecting the data from Lv5 Esper through the combat.

If this 'Janie' turn out to be an artifactual cute girl/woman with the capability to replicate the powers of esper with science/technology or she may be built with the capability to counter many esper abilities in combat. She will save this arc as a good final boss.

If their project succeed and AC like it, AC may hire them to develop a weapon with those capability. I think this might be their goal.

[Marcus H.]

I feel that some people miss the point about Aritomi Haruki, but then again we have yet to find out about his true motivations — why he became a dropout, why he led STUDY, and why he is treading into the domain of Level 5s.

Aritomi Haruki is supposed to represent those who have to exert a lot more effort than Level 0s in particular. I assume that scientists in Academy City are paid by commission — that is, by how much research work they have done. We don't know much about how a normal scientist's life in Academy City goes, but I feel that some like Haruki are pissed that espers are being pampered in Academy City compared to them who have to "serve" the espers for their welfare.

I also feel that Haruki wants to be better than an esper in his own way.
Well, no esper in Academy City can make an artificial being (AIM beings excluded), so he's close enough.

As for the arc itself, my only gripe is the fact that Mikoto involved her friends in this, right after the bloodshed that is the Sisters Arc.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Aritomi Haruki is supposed to represent those who have to exert a lot more effort than Level 0s in particular. I assume that scientists in Academy City are paid by commission — that is, by how much research work they have done. We don't know much about how a normal scientist's life in Academy City goes, but I feel that some like Haruki are pissed that espers are being pampered in Academy City compared to them who have to "serve" the espers for their welfare.

then STUDY is a bunch of morons.

the Espers in AC are nothing seen as nothing more then lab-rats by leaders of AC which are either Scientist, Businessman or both. Espers are pamper the same way lab-rats are pamper.