Suisei no Gargantia - generic discussion thread

[mikeomni]

Originally Posted by creb

Yea, see my edit.

As to the subject of antagonists, let's not forget that Chamber talked about preserving power in episode one, so there's a chance that within a few episodes, Ledo won't be able to rely on the power of his mecha, which could drastically change the dynamic of the relationship between him, the Gargantia, and the pirates. ie: This could just be the honeymoon phase, and darker days are yet to come.

As for the philosophical differences between destroying your enemy with overwhelming force, vs trying to apply just enough for them to back down, it's a tough one. Chamber is such a game changer, I have no doubts if Ledo really wanted to, he could eradicate entire populations, and with the amount of years it takes to nurture a human being from babe to say...teenage years, using Chamber as a killing machine could certainly bring about some form of peace for at least a decade or two. On the other side of that coin, the idea that killing just ramps up escalation, until things spiral out of control...again, only really holds true if you're not willing to kill enough people that they aren't capable of retaliation. While it's always a good idea to think about long term ramifications, the longer out you peer, the less certain you can be of what will occur, and I'd personally put more stock in the short term future outcomes my actions might cause.

Based on pacing, I presume there'll be at least one more major conflict with the pirates, before Ledo's people show up, and the story shifts to the inner conflict Ledo will undoubtedly have to overcome, between his going native, and his affinity for his own people...a group of people who I strongly suspect won't think twice of sweeping aside the current population of Earth for their own benefit.

I agree with your opinions. From a story telling outlook, the next episode will be about Ledo going native as foreshadowed by him using "Thank you" in the Gargantian's tongue. There he will probably see the "beauty of life" characters like Amy represent. It would be interesting to see how fast he can get acclimated and how that modifies his behavior.

On the "Do not kill" limit he was given, he was quick to recognize that Amy and Bellow's position. I suspect he has accepted it as a fact like you would troubleshoot a problem as opposed to internalizing it. If I had to draw a parallel, ISAF peacekeepers have to respect local customs even if they don't believe in it themselves. Coming from an Alliance, there must have been some variety of this interaction before. Continued contact with the Gargantians are likely to mellow down his being a "cold deadeyed killer."

As for Rackage, anime logic dictates she will be back, perhaps with a cool eyepatch. ;-) It would be smarter to get revenge via an assassin rather than another direct fleet action. But then we won't see as much mecha on mecha action. I'm wondering if the Fleet Commander's decision for Ridget to decide is him handing the baton and just waiting for Rackage to kill him so that "it ends there." Which I highly doubt, since Rackage will probably target Ledo (once she finds out who he is) ... then maybe by association Amy. Which will escalate the violence once more. There is a difference in how you behave when an ally is in trouble versus a close buddy (transform from cold to hot blooded?).

Then when either Hideauze and/or Alliance makes its appearance, ruthlessness returns to the stage.

I hope this anime maintains some layer of subtext, the first two episodes felt smart.

[blackwhite67]

And they're blasting off again! I wonder if this is going to be a thing.

I'm guessing Urogen is going to tone the action down in the next episode so we can see how Ledo adapts to the daily life on the Gargantia.

Is there a possibility that this Chevron could be like Ledo?

[SagaraSouske]

I think the idiocy of everyone on earth after seeing the effect of Chamber in action is through the roof. Here is a mech then can possibly wipe out everything on earth single handedly, let alone a bunch of pirates. The fact that both the Gargantia and the Pirates still severely underestimate the force level by several order of magnitude after what they witnessed just baffles me.

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm having a lot of problem caring about Gargantia's folk.

I just don't get the logic behind not killing pirates. For that matter, I don't get the logic behind not killing pirates but drawing weapons on Ledo...

That pretty much what I thought, as it was obvious that the pirates were trying to kill them. . .both times.

although I think Gen's doing this on purpose, so that he can smash that ideal to pieces later on in the series.

[MartianMage]

Yeah I'm kind of baffled with that too... Chamber could have easily roflstomped all the pirates and they all talk about negotiating and stuff. And what's this "no casualties" crap when they are all ok with exchanging cannon fires with the pirates. =/

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

By firing broadsides at the pirate fleet, the Galgantia was already setting that rule aside.

What they truly fear and were trying to avoid previously is a conflagration - i.e. causing every pirate to mark the fleet as a prime target to be taken down ASAP so that it may serve as an example to the rest of the world.

But that's not how it would work IRL. Pirates aren't there to serve some greater cause. They're there to make a living. And people who have weapons but won't use them in earnest are only a short step higher in the risk/reward ratio than people who pay exorbitant tributes as part of a protection racket. Bellows is right that weapons are mostly for show, to convince the other not to start a fight in the first place - but that's only if the other side doesn't know you're too scared to use them. Otherwise, they're just more loot.

If Ledo had destroyed what is "almost all the pirates of the sector", not only would there have been no pirates left to mount a credible threat, they'd all be looking for less dangerous targets. I mean, why do you think Somali pirates attack cargos and yachts instead of Navy warships whose armament is worth millions? Because they don't want to die. It's the same here. Pirates aren't going to want to die so that the survivors look scarier.

It's different from Gundam Seed. There, Kira was fighting soldiers, because there was a war on. But you win a war by destroying your enemy's capacity to fight (of which soldiers are only a part), and you end a war by negotiating peace. And once the war was over, everyone could go home with no further need to fight.

But pirates? As long as it works for them, why would they stop their predations? Was there anybody interested in convincing them to get a honest job?

[andyjay729]

I was actually a bit disappointed in this episode.

Not so much for the kill-the-pirates/don't-kill-the-pirates angle, but that it all seemed a bit too straightforward. Supersoldier and his mecha fall into a primitive society, they're suspicious of him at first until he strikes a devastating attack at their enemy, then by the end of the episode he's their hero. That almost seemed like SAO territory there.

Maybe I'm off base here, but I hope this show will have a bit more to it than that.

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But that's not how it would work IRL. Pirates aren't there to serve some greater cause. They're there to make a living. And people who have weapons but won't use them in earnest are only a short step higher in the risk/reward ratio than people who pay exorbitant tributes as part of a protection racket. Bellows is right that weapons are mostly for show, to convince the other not to start a fight in the first place - but that's only if the other side doesn't know you're too scared to use them. Otherwise, they're just more loot.

If Ledo had destroyed what is "almost all the pirates of the sector", not only would there have been no pirates left to mount a credible threat, they'd all be looking for less dangerous targets. I mean, why do you think Somali pirates attack cargos and yachts instead of Navy warships whose armament is worth millions? Because they don't want to die. It's the same here. Pirates aren't going to want to die so that the survivors look scarier.

It's different from Gundam Seed. There, Kira was fighting soldiers, because there was a war on. But you win a war by destroying your enemy's capacity to fight (of which soldiers are only a part), and you end a war by negotiating peace. And once the war was over, everyone could go home with no further need to fight.

But pirates? As long as it works for them, why would they stop their predations? Was there anybody interested in convincing them to get a honest job?

This makes a lot of sense to me, and I think this is where Gen is going to head with the whole pirate conflict...as realistically, the "no killing" rule with pirates is silly and unrealistic. . .it's pretty much anime cliche #3487216347, Honestly, this ep would have made me drop the show (as I tire of seeing anime stupidity) but since GEN's name is on the show, I'm pretty sure he going to deconstruct anime cliche #3487216347 during the course of the show.

I find it hard to believe that its just going to be all sunshine and rainbows after the first 5 mintues of episode one and the ending of ep 2.

I am 100% sure that telling ledo not to kill the pirates is going to bite the gargantia in the ass HARD. . .unless the creators go the whole teaming up against the stronger enemy thing . . . which is anime/hollywood/comicbook cliche #328176481238.

I know Gen is smarter than that though. I'd say we're in for a real treat.

[Requiem-x]

Originally Posted by andyjay729

I was actually a bit disappointed in this episode.

Not so much for the kill-the-pirates/don't-kill-the-pirates angle, but that it all seemed a bit too straightforward. Supersoldier and his mecha fall into a primitive society, they're suspicious of him at first until he strikes a devastating attack at their enemy, then by the end of the episode he's their hero. That almost seemed like SAO territory there.

Maybe I'm off base here, but I hope this show will have a bit more to it than that.

Except they actually talked things through first so it was expected from him to do that, instead of being a second-hand batman impersonation.

Also, really, really glad to see a)Amy quickly shaking off the idiocy. b)The whole "killing is bad" issue having actual motives behind it, and not just because of the retaliation. This is a society built on cooperation and negotiation, or so it seems, so of course they wouldn't be too keen on total destruction. Good enough for me.

Looks like next week starts with the more slice of life part of the show, which I'm definetly looking forward too.

[Reckoner]

I am not sure what some people here are asking for. They want the Gargantia citizens to be entirely ruthless and merciless with their enemies? That's a pretty primitive mind set.

[YourIdeas]

I can understand where the Gargantia fleet is coming from but I admit that I thought their reaction to the situation was a bit annoying. Ridgit seemed like the only one with a level head, in that she understands that they have an intergalactic machine capable of killing anything with little effort, they themselves could be killed also. I'm actually thinking that Ledo may end up turning on the Gargantia fleet the instant anyone who seems stronger can help him, but this is more just fun speculation.

Everyone else on the other hand? "Why are we putting all of our faith into this kid?" Based off Amy's "baka!" in the beginning, I'm guessing that the results weren't entirely clear and this is why everyone is acting like this.

Regardless of this one weird issue with the characters, I liked the design on the ships and roids. Pirate Bitch looks like she's coming back for more revenge, though it's clear she's in over her head.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I am not sure what some people here are asking for. They want the Gargantia citizens to be entirely ruthless and merciless with their enemies? That's a pretty primitive mind set.

Not pursuing retreating pirates is one thing. Trying to not kill them as you exchange fire is another.

Mostly, though, I find the logic behind "if we have weapons, but don't use them, they'll leave us alone" to be outright weird. If you want to convince pirates not to attack you, you have to make it costly for them to attack you. Or, alternatively, you can make it profitable by paying them off or snitching on other convoys. Bellows' half-ass attitude just get you the worst of both worlds, though.

[tsunade666]

The episode is good but the logic is weird or rather too humanely and doesn't feel Gen's work at all. I also find it stupid when Ledo is searching for the enemy first and letting it escape before trashing the ship. Not trying to kill and outright harm the pirates are only giving them more reason to attack you because you don't retaliate with enough effort.

But overall I find the episode good without thinking about the logic of the people living there.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not pursuing retreating pirates is one thing. Trying to not kill them as you exchange fire is another.

Mostly, though, I find the logic behind "if we have weapons, but don't use them, they'll leave us alone" to be outright weird. If you want to convince pirates not to attack you, you have to make it costly for them to attack you. Or, alternatively, you can make it profitable by paying them off or snitching on other convoys. Bellows' half-ass attitude just get you the worst of both worlds, though.

There is many weird cultures out there...

[Enjou]

Originally Posted by Mangaka-chan

I'm also surprised that the two slave girls seemed pretty gun-ho about helping out their mistress in the fire fight. Guess Lukkage either treats them decently enough as far as slaves go, and/or they have a really bad case of Stockholm syndrome.

They probably are treated well, and I'm guessing they are there entirely willingly given their attitude. Lukkage having them there in the first place is probably a combination of the general trope of authoritarian leaders having eccentricitic personalities in the first place as well as showing them off like objects being owned is a status symbol that affirms her position. The latter is especially important to Lukkage as a leader, because she's a woman leading a pirate fleet that's likely mostly composed of men and as such she has to show a masculine side to maintain an air of dominance. On that note, the two girls are probably safer being perceived as belonging to the captain - the previous episode showed that these guys aren't afraid to be forceful to get what they want from women.

[Shinhwa]

I feel Chamber is going to run out of power in the final episode or something, then everyone thanks him for what he did for them.

[hai_san]

Very strong 3ep again, can't deny that the Gargantia logic is a bit flawed... as said there you have the absolut overkill machine that could wipe out the pirate fleet but not to use but use a "pacifist" stand is a bit weird for me. More interaction from Ledo and other people to come please, it was a really nice conversation between him and Bellows.

[neshru]

lol @ the beginning of the episode. Instead of being scared shitless, the fleet commanders calmly discuss what to do with the boy, completely ignoring the fact that his alien technology just vaporized an entire pirate fleet in a matter of seconds, and the fact that they could be next if the boy wanted to.

[Kanon]

Amy's "Ledo no baka!" made me fear the worst, but the contrast between their two very different outlook on life was handled nicely. I was pleased she apologized to him later and didn't try to lecture him. She and Bellows also seemed grateful for what he did. Bellows' arguments were pretty sound and logical, and not as simplistic as "killing is bad", even there was a bit of that in there too. However... her logic didn't really apply in this case. Preserving the status quo is needed if you are weaker or roughly equal to the enemy, but Ledo and Chamber completely overwhelmed the pirates. They were never going to be a problem for them anymore if they had just let Ledo do his thing. Pirates are parasites. There is sadly not much you can do besides imprisoning them or killing them. Peace with them is impossible to achieve. You shouldn't be fine with letting them roam free (which means constantly living in fear of attacks) if you have other options. Chamber would have been a terrific deterrent. Pirates are not dumb, after seeing the difference in power, they would have swiftly realized attacking the Gargantia fleet was a waste of time and resources. I understand their desire not to want to rely on Ledo, though. They barely know anything about him after all. He might betray them at any time. So in the end, I'm fine with how this went down even if I think the Gargantia fleet is a bit naive. Their actions make sense.

I was slightly surprised a solider like Ledo understood their position so quickly. He's pretty smart and considerate. He doesn't have any misplaced pride either. Very solid and likable main character. Definitely the best among the mecha anime airing this season.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by hai_san

Very strong 3ep again, can't deny that the Gargantia logic is a bit flawed... as said there you have the absolut overkill machine that could wipe out the pirate fleet but not to use but use a "pacifist" stand is a bit weird for me. More interaction from Ledo and other people to come please, it was a really nice conversation between him and Bellows.

Meh. Their "pacifist" stance looks weird to me even if Chambers never entered into the equation.