Code Geass Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Ddadain]

New OP sucks BIG TIME! It's so off to the general feel of the show. I mean, they could have done a better job timing the animation sequences and not just fast-forward some. I miss those rhythmic beats of the drums >_>

Anyways, to compensate, we get an AWESOME ED! But, mercy me, bring back the old OP please!

My thoughts on EP. 13:

1.) If you're ready to kill, get ready to be killed.

That being said, I don't think Suzaku's or Shirley's or everyone else's take on "justice" is right. Soldiers are there for two things:

- To protect
- To kill

And often times, one needs to do the other to do the other and vice versa. This whole, "I-am-a-soldier-so-I-can-protect-people-from-dying" is NOT only naive, but is frankly stupid! Hell YEAH to Kansai-sensei! XD

Oppression always results in rebellion But the rebellion doesn't always succeed. However, the fault lies with the oppressors in what ever case. As a wise saying goes,

"Those who forsake freedom, for security, deserves neither..."



2.) Lelouche is stupid

> That being said, If I GOT Geass, I'd be A LOT more creative than Lulu. I MEAN, COME ON! You can spit out ANY as MANY orders as you want as long as you keep eye-contact! Ugghhh >_> Simply say, "worship me as your God" or "follow my every command" or "become my slave", POOF! Minions~

3.) MK Guren II needs 2 claws, not ONE!

Oh yes! I mean, who needs a knife, when you've got photon-emitting claws (YES! Light a.k.a radiation is photons >)! Geeze, why does it only got one o_o and the stupid white robo has Shields, two-swords, wings, big-ass gun, etc. Gah, even the field a bit please.

4.) Lelouche needs to get a better frame

One words: Gah! Gah gah gah gah gah! Lelouche seems to be able to pilot frames quite adeptly, which is a mystery Came with the package (Geass)?

5.) The cause doesn't justify the means

Yes! It's true! Tyranny for freedom: oxymoron!

Lulu's quest to destroy Britannia is explicitly linked with the murder of his mother, and of course the future of his physically handicapped sister. His zeal to get to Cornelia at all costs is quite out of character. I very much agree with C.C. about how Lulu is ALSO living in a fantasy, and that he needs to choose which path he would tread on.

Now, I haven't watched the Gundam Series everyone seems to paralleling Code Geass to, but in my experience, such series tend to shift on to different paths as obviously the protagonist/antagonist are in antiphase to the norm.

Suffice to say, the series has yet to begun to unfold ;D Albeit the parallels, leave some room for surprise >

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Ddadain

3.) MK Guren II needs 2 claws, not ONE!

Oh yes! I mean, who needs a knife, when you've got photon-emitting claws (YES! Light a.k.a radiation is photons >)! Geeze, why does it only got one o_o and the stupid white robo has Shields, two-swords, wings, big-ass gun, etc. Gah, even the field a bit please.

Even the field? Then they'd have to improve Lancelot. Guren has uber fast reloading time for the claw that has a good reach, extreme power and works as shield even. And that's just the claw. If Karen wasn't stupid she'd be using other weapons that came with it as well.

[FSNxPhantom]

Originally Posted by Ddadain

My thoughts on EP. 13:

1.) If you're ready to kill, get ready to be killed.

That being said, I don't think Suzaku's or Shirley's or everyone else's take on "justice" is right. Soldiers are there for two things:

- To protect
- To kill

And often times, one needs to do the other to do the other and vice versa. This whole, "I-am-a-soldier-so-I-can-protect-people-from-dying" is NOT only naive, but is frankly stupid! Hell YEAH to Kansai-sensei! XD

Oppression always results in rebellion But the rebellion doesn't always succeed. However, the fault lies with the oppressors in what ever case. As a wise saying goes,

"Those who forsake freedom, for security, deserves neither..."

I agree with you there.

2.) Lelouche is stupid

> That being said, If I GOT Geass, I'd be A LOT more creative than Lulu. I MEAN, COME ON! You can spit out ANY as MANY orders as you want as long as you keep eye-contact! Ugghhh >_> Simply say, "worship me as your God" or "follow my every command" or "become my slave", POOF! Minions~

Remember 2 things:
1) Geass can only be used on each person ONCE
2) Lelouche does not know how long the geass will last

3.) MK Guren II needs 2 claws, not ONE!

Oh yes! I mean, who needs a knife, when you've got photon-emitting claws (YES! Light a.k.a radiation is photons >)! Geeze, why does it only got one o_o and the stupid white robo has Shields, two-swords, wings, big-ass gun, etc. Gah, even the field a bit please.

NO. Thats my answer for that because remember when Lancelot went against MK Guren II the first time? EVERYTHING was DESTROYED by that ONE CLAW. Plus she didn't use the LEFT arm.
No comment on whether Guren should be nerfed or Lancelot enhanced. Don't feel like going through the thought

4.) Lelouche needs to get a better frame

One words: Gah! Gah gah gah gah gah! Lelouche seems to be able to pilot frames quite adeptly, which is a mystery Came with the package (Geass)?

Not sure how he learned how to pilot a KF, but he probably would do better in a better frame like you said.

5.) The cause doesn't justify the means

Yes! It's true! Tyranny for freedom: oxymoron!

Lulu's quest to destroy Britannia is explicitly linked with the murder of his mother, and of course the future of his physically handicapped sister. His zeal to get to Cornelia at all costs is quite out of character. I very much agree with C.C. about how Lulu is ALSO living in a fantasy, and that he needs to choose which path he would tread on.

Now, I haven't watched the Gundam Series everyone seems to paralleling Code Geass to, but in my experience, such series tend to shift on to different paths as obviously the protagonist/antagonist are in antiphase to the norm.

Suffice to say, the series has yet to begun to unfold ;D Albeit the parallels, leave some room for surprise >

Don't feel like answering that, head hurts

[etothex]

Originally Posted by Ddadain

2.) Lelouche is stupid

> That being said, If I GOT Geass, I'd be A LOT more creative than Lulu. I MEAN, COME ON! You can spit out ANY as MANY orders as you want as long as you keep eye-contact! Ugghhh >_> Simply say, "worship me as your God" or "follow my every command" or "become my slave", POOF! Minions~

I had thought this for episode 8; he shoulda just made the JLF guys his doggies instead of having them off themselves. But as pointed out, we don't know the full limits of the GEASS. It might wear off at an unexpected time. That would be troublesome. Therefore it seems that he's going with the "if I can do it without the slaves, avoid the unknown possibilities" path.

Lulu's quest to destroy Britannia is explicitly linked with the murder of his mother, and of course the future of his physically handicapped sister. His zeal to get to Cornelia at all costs is quite out of character. I very much agree with C.C. about how Lulu is ALSO living in a fantasy, and that he needs to choose which path he would tread on.

Right now, he has 2 KNOWN sources of potential information regarding his mother's death. Clovis indicted both Cornelia and Schneizel as having to do with, or knowing something about the murder. Since Schneizel doesn't seem to be hanging around nearby, it's understandable why L keeps trying to get Cornelia alive. It's just taking too damn long. L should just go assassin style, break in to wherever she is staying and geass his way through or ninja through to her.

Truthfully I think there has been a little too much focus on L riding around in a frame, when he could be doing a lot more effective work with his GEASS. Last 4 eps, we've seen him use it twice i think, to tell ep 10 JLF soldiers to ignore what's happening, and in ep 12 to get info from the Kyouto driver. He's not being very productive with it. There's plenty of other things he could be doing to weaken the Brittanian presence besides fighting in a mech. While I understand that this is a mech show, the hero has other very effective weapons (with lots of interesting backstory), and a sharp mind. That was a big allure of the show for me. I want to see more than just Lelouch leading a bunch of mechs into battle. At the very least, I want to see him counter the lancelot with something other than frustration (for Christ's sake, he found out Lancelot's weakness in ep 2; throw a civilian at it =P). Next epsiode should hopefully give me a nice fill of geass action.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Remember episode 4, where Zero said "Come to me. Britania is a worthless country that you cannot use." To which he replied, "That may be true, but that's why I'm going to change Britania into a worthwhile country from inside out." Thus from this we can gather that Suzaku does acknowledge that Britannia is a worthless country, and thus he does not like nor condone the actions of Britannia one bit.

So why does Suzaku work in the Britanian military even if their ideals are not the same as his? Because Britania is a country ruled by the strong and the respected, and thus in order to become both for a number like him he has to be in the military. He is not fighting for Britannia because he is fighting for national pride or what not; he's doing it so that he can be recognized and thus gain a voice in Britannia. Suzaku is only in the military because to him its the best (or maybe the only) way he can think of changing Britannia from the inside without much or any loss of civilian lives.

So if one does not condone the actions of the country he is working for, does condemning similar actions done by another individual be actually called hypocrisy? Nope, that's called consistency. Suzaku does not like how Britannia acts, and thus he has every right to condemn Zero, who's actions are as bad and sometimes even worse
than what Britannia actually does.

Hmm, let me try and get your reasoning here. It is not hypocritical to work for an organisation whos actions you condemn and yet whose orders you obey and indirectly, whose actions you carry out, and its okay to condemn other people for roughly doing the same thing as you?

I agree that Suzaku places a very high emphasis on civillian lifes, which may have something to do with his sense of justice. But imo, his sense of justice is worthless when he chooses to become the strongarm of a nation like Britainnia. It only makes him seem more like a hypocrite, especially when he spouts stuff about justice and whatnot.

[Anh_Minh]

Suzaku reminds me of a collaborator they tried a few years ago. (50 years too late... Oh, well.)

His defense? "I stayed [in the French administration] to hinder the nazis from within. The word was minimum efficiency!" Didn't keep him from sending hundreds of people to death camps. I don't know that anyone could tell the difference between his minimum and maximum efficiency, which he presumably gave to the liberated France.


I mean, Suzaku says he wants to change things from within... but how does he plan to do that?

And don't give me that crap about being promoted. Those are promotions that come with no additional power. They might as well give him chocolate medals. In the end, he only proves what a good dog he is. And the best dog in the world is still nothing more than a dog.

[Majek]

Well obviously in that world revolutions never worked. (At least 3 major ones failed from the looks of things) So he's trying the other thing and since he's not the main char he doesn't get the airtime to show trying to do something.

And it shouldn't be comapred to our history and society anway. Too many differences.

[quina]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Suzaku reminds me of a collaborator they tried a few years ago. (50 years too late... Oh, well.)

His defense? "I stayed [in the French administration] to hinder the nazis from within. The word was minimum efficiency!" Didn't keep him from sending hundreds of people to death camps. I don't know that anyone could tell the difference between his minimum and maximum efficiency, which he presumably gave to the liberated France.


I mean, Suzaku says he wants to change things from within... but how does he plan to do that?

And don't give me that crap about being promoted. Those are promotions that come with no additional power. They might as well give him chocolate medals. In the end, he only proves what a good dog he is. And the best dog in the world is still nothing more than a dog.

lol didn't you know Susaku has a plan all along. Those promotions are for another purpose. He actually has another personality and his current naive one is just an act to make Euphie fall for him. He plan to have Lulu kill all other Britanian's heir and kick his ass in the last minutes, marry Euphie and rule the world.

Through his prayer while he was a kid in a shine, he has talked to a god called "Sunrise". Thus he started his plan by forming "Kira" personality, so he can never get killed. He also comes to learn that there exist in this world a pink hair princess and by forming extra personality he is guarantee to get her and not die in the end.

After he rules the world, he will rape and kill the princess then reveal his true self to the world. No one can stand in his way.

[Double_Edge]

Man, why does everyone hate the song?! Oh well, i ugess its your opinion....

My question is...what is Cheese-kun? Is it the doll? And why do people say "she FINALLY got it". I never heard her mention it before...

[quina]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

Man, why does everyone hate the song?! Oh well, i ugess its your opinion....

My question is...what is Cheese-kun? Is it the doll? And why do people say "she FINALLY got it". I never heard her mention it before...

Cheese kun is the doll. CC was collecting the pizza hut stamp for it. CC finally have it in this episode lol

[Xamdou]

The Op is just horrible, mainly because the timing is off and is worse that most of those fan-made youtube music videos of animes.

+ For CC finnaly receiving cheese-kun she's earned it!
+ For the epic cliffhanger
+ For everything else except the Op.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Mgz

WTF?

Spoiler:

also suck to be the JLF, they all die in the end anyway, blow up by luLu or get shot by Britannia Army. At least by blowing up lulu is doing the JLF a favor here, at least their sarcifies aren't really worthless, also save a couple grand of spending on bullet for Britannia army ^^

And wasting a ridiculous amount of dough on Sutherlands....

Spoiler:

I wonder if Toudou, Ougi, or the rest of Black Knights will find out the truth

[Renegade334]

Originally Posted by Nvis

And wasting a ridiculous amount of dough on Sutherlands....

Spoiler:

I wonder if Toudou, Ougi, or the rest of Black Knights will find out the truth

Highly unlikely - Lelouch brought the underwater mine unbeknownst to the Black Knights and they have no reason to suspect or imagine that their leader was dragging an explosive device right in the middle of the tanker's path. And even if they do, there is no longer any proof to back their claims as they now all believe that the JLF (guys cherishing the idea of bushidô as if it were their dear wives) preferred to die rather than surrender or get captured. The mine's gone and there is no footage to suggest that the tanker went down thanks to a third party weapon.

[ZombieSheep]

Originally Posted by Nvis

And wasting a ridiculous amount of dough on Sutherlands....

Spoiler:

I wonder if Toudou, Ougi, or the rest of Black Knights will find out the truth

They probably do, I mean even Suzaku figure it out. Given Zero's usual tactic pattern, I'm sure anybody who isn't a complete idiot would know.

[Darkman.exe213]

A little off-topic, but my guess on how Lelouch learned to pilot a Knightmare is that he learned from another member of the black knights. Doesn't look like he can do anything above the beginner level, anyway.

[Selic]

Considering what the Brittannian grunts have been able to do, Lelouch is average to above average. He just faces aces of high caliber all the time.

[quina]

Originally Posted by ZombieSheep

They probably do, I mean even Suzaku figure it out. Given Zero's usual tactic pattern, I'm sure anybody who isn't a complete idiot would know.

Ougi and the rest of the black knight who are still buying "Hero of Justice" that Zero spoused out since ep9 most likely would not find out; at least not until very late in the story where it doesn't matter anymore. Otherwise the BlackKnight probably loses support and get disband kinda early. "Hero of Justice" is a crap Lulu made up for this.

CC.. she knows everything.

Toudo probably notice right away.

Susaku didn't know that Zero planted the bomb, but he knows that the bomb is a bait and it is most likely part of zero's plan.

Kallen... well.. she might figures out at some points if not already know seeing Zero drying himself. She wouldn't gives a crap anyway.

Shirley, she will never know anything. Knowing this one fact of Lulu = Zero is going to get her kill so bad now. She doesn't even know how a bomb work.

Cornalia, she doesn't know rightnow. It would not take long to figure out if she think about it, however she has no way of knowing if the bomb is planted by Zero or really self-destruct. She wouldn't care either way.

Euphie, she probably have no knowledge of the bomb, ofcourse unless Susaku or Cornalia mention to her. She wouldn't know either way.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Suzaku did not figure it out with brilliant deduction or powers of premonition; he did it with an intense biase against Zero, believing him only to be capable of such acts.

Of course, a more intelligent person might be able to fit two and two together and realise that the almost immediate arrival of the OoBK can be linked with the sudden explosion of JLF's ship...As long as he doesn't find himself freezing from surprise and dead with a few well-placed bullets, that is.

Why all the flak for the OP? It's as though it suddenly becomes a scourge and (if it was any close estimate) almost as hateable as Suzaku for some people.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Why all the flak for the OP? It's as though it suddenly becomes a scourge and (if it was any close estimate) almost as hateable as Suzaku for some people.

because the first time it was playewd it made people's ears bleed...but its just a matter of time before it starts to grow on them (well me anyway) like bacteria ~

[HazardNights]

This was the first episode I have watched in a while. Was okay but nothing great. I stopped watching before because I found Lelouch pretty damn annoying and it still seems that way but now Kallen is so into Zero that if he said kill a baby she'd most likely do with no problem. Ugh.

I just hope that sooner rather then later the Black Knights find out what Zero did and turn on him. Seriously with an ally or leader like that who needs enemies?

The best part of the episode for me was, well wasn't this episode but was the end of the last episode (checked out the last part on youtube) where he found out his actions were responsible for Shirley's father's death. I like that continued into this episode. He seriously needs to face the consequences of his actions and he has to experience them head on with no sugarcoating at all.

Still waiting for him to realize that Suzaku is the one in the Lancelot. I keep hoping that when it happens it will be after Zero/Lelouch does something so henious that Suzaku will be seeing nothing but red and will be trying his best to kill him with him listing all the things Zero had done and be in complete emotional turmoil. Only for Suzaku to find out who Zero really is but not care because he's so pissed off (another blow to Lelouch).