Kingdom Hearts 4

[MeoTwister5]

Kingdom Hearts 4 is announced.

Expect to see it in about 10 years.

[Tactics]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/j2DSEkYFRh8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

So it really became Nomura quest for revenge of XV.



Anyone who familiar with side-material should be familiar with Strelitzia already.
The hooded person voice surprisingly not Sugita (who voiced Master of Masters), either its Luxu real voice or new assistance of him.

[Random14]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was another new character, the backstory just gets more and more convoluted. Sora hearing her backstory would take a while.

Not a fan of the new art style, although its still early days so I expect changes. KH3 killed off a lot of my interest in the series, but we'll see how this looks over the next decade (although 10 years development time is probably an optimistic estimate).

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Random14

I wouldn't be surprised if that was another new character, the backstory just gets more and more convoluted. Sora hearing her backstory would take a while.

Not a fan of the new art style, although its still early days so I expect changes. KH3 killed off a lot of my interest in the series, but we'll see how this looks over the next decade (although 10 years development time is probably an optimistic estimate).

KH III did it fair enough with Ephemer information strictly limited to previous Keyblade wielder for non Chi players (albeit the random names in keyblades can be confusing LOL).
I think Strelitzia will get more or less same treatment that players won't get significance of several dialogue about her past someone from world outside Quadratum without knowledge of Chi.

I kinda expected faster as KH III six-years development is caused by Nomura years before insisted he can do both FF XV and KH III on top of SE not getting hang of how to do new combat system to fit open world yet (which they gracefully dodged with FF XIII series). Considering what FF VII R managed to do and ideas in XVI, they should be able to get their scheduling properly this time.

[The Green One]

Man I really should finish Kingdom Hearts 3 someday.....

*yawns*

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Man I really should finish Kingdom Hearts 3 someday.....

*yawns*

I should eventually buy/start it and see if I still feel the "magic" . I kinda lost touch after Birth by Sleep with each new shenangian and hadn't even known about the existance of Chi/Reunion X and what they were called lol if not for a youtube summary.

Anyway: Kinda between indifferent and torn about the photorealistic graphic style of the "afterworld" (the twilight town introduction of KH4 it seems and Donald and Goofy visiting Hades to find a way to get him back). Graphics will evolve with each new hardware; that is obvious. This will be long-term "concern" given the development time.

[cyberdemon]

I just hope that they don’t try to leave out the final fantasy characters again.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Mahou

I should eventually buy/start it and see if I still feel the "magic" . I kinda lost touch after Birth by Sleep with each new shenangian and hadn't even known about the existance of Chi/Reunion X and what they were called lol if not for a youtube summary.

Anyway: Kinda between indifferent and torn about the photorealistic graphic style of the "afterworld" (the twilight town introduction of KH4 it seems and Donald and Goofy visiting Hades to find a way to get him back). Graphics will evolve with each new hardware; that is obvious. This will be long-term "concern" given the development time.

I'm pretty sure it's a directional change to fit the worlds Sora will be visiting.



Because this isn't a normal forest; it's Endor from Star Wars and you can see the AT-ST's leg there.

If the worlds that Sora will be visiting will be mostly live-action Disney IPs this time, then it makes sense to make the artstyle more realistic to match.

Even if Sora visited Pirates of the Caribbean before, the most they ever did there was adjust the lighting.

[cyberdemon]

I’m not against Star Wars being included, in fact it is perfect. Anakins fall and redemption is par for the course for a kingdom Hearts game.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Mahou

I should eventually buy/start it and see if I still feel the "magic" . I kinda lost touch after Birth by Sleep with each new shenangian and hadn't even known about the existance of Chi/Reunion X and what they were called lol if not for a youtube summary.

Anyway: Kinda between indifferent and torn about the photorealistic graphic style of the "afterworld" (the twilight town introduction of KH4 it seems and Donald and Goofy visiting Hades to find a way to get him back). Graphics will evolve with each new hardware; that is obvious. This will be long-term "concern" given the development time.

Honestly the magic has "died" for me which is why I haven't finish KH3 even years later now. I was about halfway through and just lost interest. I've played KH since it first came out and played almost every game and I just can't get into it like I once did. Part of me just wants to be able to FINISH Sora's story after investing this much time and money into it but......

[Wandering Soul]

KH3 was honestly the end of thr magic for me. The main game itself was underwhelming and the fact that so much was relegated to DLC was annoying.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

KH3 was honestly the end of thr magic for me. The main game itself was underwhelming and the fact that so much was relegated to DLC was annoying.

You might be new to Kingdom Hearts and never bought the vanilla versions of 1 and 2 before they released Final Mix a year later anyway

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

You might be new to Kingdom Hearts and never bought the vanilla versions of 1 and 2 before they released Final Mix a year later anyway

To be fair, base KH III is incomplete (Scala Ad Caelum is the most obvious part, base recognized it as Keyblade Graveyard area but Re:Mind recognized it as its own world) and not without good reason as its combination of SE dealing with: high FF XV development cost, underemployed while KH team have to re-organized KH III development.

KH is lucky they got Final Mix tradition.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Tactics

To be fair, base KH III is incomplete (Scala Ad Caelum is the most obvious part, base recognized it as Keyblade Graveyard area but Re:Mind recognized it as its own world) and not without good reason as its combination of SE dealing with: high FF XV development cost, underemployed while KH team have to re-organized KH III development.

KH is lucky they got Final Mix tradition.

This does not change my point: all of the main installments were originally "incomplete" and then rereleased with added content later.

The original Japanese KH1 did not have the postgame fights: (no Ice Titan, no Phantom, no Kurt Siza, no Sephiroth), which were only added with the English release, and then further added with extra Riku cutscenes in Final Mix.

Vanilla KH2 was also infamously incomplete, as there was nothing to do outside of the main story aside from Sephiroth until they added the Data Organization fights in Final Mix. The Roxas fight being relegated to a skippable cutscene was also jarring compared to how you had to fight everyone else.
Gameplay-wise the lack of a Dodge Roll was also noticeable.

The only difference now is that you're buying that extra content as DLC instead of a separate game that releases years later. You could also argue that KH3's main story is the most unfun to play, but content-wise it's still not any different from its predecessors.

[Tactics]

Nope. KH I and II are complete.

Ice Titan, Phantom, Kurt Siza, Sephiroth and recolored enemies are not mandatory to get full experience of the game. You can finished the game without interacting with them and its not like it bear serious consequences to your progress. Kinda disturbing for completion log if I must say considering Phantom is kinda inevitable if you revisit Neverland. What's left? Deep Dive ending is skippable by nature.

So do with additional contents from KH II FM.

Not having Limit Form in base game didn't mean anything big past missing the broken Dodge Roll that only par with additional super bosses (if you need Dodge Roll to complete base game its saddening because Reaction Command, Reflect, Magnet and Fire were busted enough). Not fighting Roxas 'manually' doesnt make things worse, as the process and conclusion more or less same. The only thing one might wanted to argue is extra cutscenes because FM additional cutscenes hinted: Xigbar personal agenda (III); Xehanort survived by snatching Lingering Will body (BBS); with Vexen and Zexion speaking about producing more artificial Keyblade owner sometimes in the past (358/2). Even so, skipping all of it doesn't mean you missed a lot that told by base game.

KH III OTOH, if you not playing Re:Mind, might as well considered there's no process to how Kairi saved and others managed to win despite the odds. Naturally if Scala is "complete product" there's no need to separate it as its own world and made Sora 'obliged' to walk around in Re:Mind but they have to, implying KH III is rushed and they draw the line on last quarter of content which, as said, able to be reasoned using Final Mix tradition. Part of me can tolerate it after watched FF XIV and XV live report during said times implied SE struggling with manpower to the point both director got serious lack of sleep; but KH team better not doing it again for IV.

[Shadow5YA]

Even from a narrative perspective, you either never played the vanilla versions or have a selective memory.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Nope. KH I and II are complete.

Ice Titan, Phantom, Kurt Siza, Sephiroth and recolored enemies are not mandatory to get full experience of the game. You can finished the game without interacting with them and its not like it bear serious consequences to your progress. Kinda disturbing for completion log if I must say considering Phantom is kinda inevitable if you revisit Neverland. What's left? Deep Dive ending is skippable by nature.

So do with additional contents from KH II FM.

Not having Limit Form in base game didn't mean anything big past missing the broken Dodge Roll that only par with additional super bosses (if you need Dodge Roll to complete base game its saddening because Reaction Command, Reflect, Magnet and Fire were busted enough). Not fighting Roxas 'manually' doesnt make things worse, as the process and conclusion more or less same. The only thing one might wanted to argue is extra cutscenes because FM additional cutscenes hinted: Xigbar personal agenda (III); Xehanort survived by snatching Lingering Will body (BBS); with Vexen and Zexion speaking about producing more artificial Keyblade owner sometimes in the past (358/2). Even so, skipping all of it doesn't mean you missed a lot that told by base game.

KH III OTOH, if you not playing Re:Mind, might as well considered there's no process to how Kairi saved and others managed to win despite the odds. Naturally if Scala is "complete product" there's no need to separate it as its own world and made Sora 'obliged' to walk around in Re:Mind but they have to, implying KH III is rushed and they draw the line on last quarter of content which, as said, able to be reasoned using Final Mix tradition. Part of me can tolerate it after watched FF XIV and XV live report during said times implied SE struggling with manpower to the point both director got serious lack of sleep; but KH team better not doing it again for IV.

In KH1 vanilla, there is no explanation for why Riku became corrupted with darkness. You just see him act like a jerk for a majority of the game, then at the very end he's supposed to be characterized as a good guy going into Chain of Memories and 2.
You do not see the cutscenes where Riku is wandering on his own and slowly being taken advantage of by Maleficent after the destruction of Destiny Islands until Final Mix. He's just gone, then suddenly he's with Maleficent, then suddenly he has Kairi in Neverland and acts like he knows everything, then you fight him in Hollow Baston, then he's a good guy again after being possessed by Ansem.

From CoM going into KH2 vanilla, plenty of cutscenes were missing.
You see that Riku in Ansem's form despite the fact that he was supposed to have conquered his darkness in Chain of Memories. The cutscene that shows how and why Riku turned into Ansem was only added in Final Mix.
Axel was characterized as an executor in Chain of Memories as well as KH2 vanilla, and you don't get the cutscenes where Axel was begging Roxas not to leave until Final Mix.
Cutscenes showing how Roxas came to join and leave Organization XIII were never there in vanilla either. All you ever see of Roxas is in Twilight Town, then assume that he used to be with them from spoken dialogue.


By your standards if base KH1 and KH2 are complete, then so is base KH3. The way Sora saved Kairi would be left up to imagination before it's explained in updates, just like large potions of previous entries were too.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

You might be new to Kingdom Hearts and never bought the vanilla versions of 1 and 2 before they released Final Mix a year later anyway

Actually the Final mixes are all I played. Never touched the original vanilla versions.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Even from a narrative perspective, you either never played the vanilla versions or have a selective memory.

In KH1 vanilla, there is no explanation for why Riku became corrupted with darkness. You just see him act like a jerk for a majority of the game, then at the very end he's supposed to be characterized as a good guy going into Chain of Memories and 2.
You do not see the cutscenes where Riku is wandering on his own and slowly being taken advantage of by Maleficent after the destruction of Destiny Islands until Final Mix. He's just gone, then suddenly he's with Maleficent, then suddenly he has Kairi in Neverland and acts like he knows everything, then you fight him in Hollow Baston, then he's a good guy again after being possessed by Ansem.

From CoM going into KH2 vanilla, plenty of cutscenes were missing.
You see that Riku in Ansem's form despite the fact that he was supposed to have conquered his darkness in Chain of Memories. The cutscene that shows how and why Riku turned into Ansem was only added in Final Mix.
Axel was characterized as an executor in Chain of Memories as well as KH2 vanilla, and you don't get the cutscenes where Axel was begging Roxas not to leave until Final Mix.
Cutscenes showing how Roxas came to join and leave Organization XIII were never there in vanilla either. All you ever see of Roxas is in Twilight Town, then assume that he used to be with them from spoken dialogue.


By your standards if base KH1 and KH2 are complete, then so is base KH3. The way Sora saved Kairi would be left up to imagination before it's explained in updates, just like large potions of previous entries were too.

This is so wrong.

KH I base did come with explanation about Riku.
Even the corruption is clear enough as Maleficent and Xehanort Heartless feed him with negative thought that the Keyblade ended up choosing Sora.
Saying there's no explanation is like you're ignoring how Neverland and Monstro raise point about Sora confusion in how Riku insisted the whole deal is about competition between them with Hollow Bastion come with answer that Riku wield Darkness in agreement to what Maleficent and Xehanort Heartless offered.

As you finished last boss battle it already telling that Riku possession is ended and he returned to his normal self.
You can get all of that in base game and what you need is as simple as read and look at the presentation. Saying you need Final Mix to understand KH I is not true at all.

So do with KH II.

Without CoM you only missed about: Organization XIII? How Sora ended up in memory chamber?
Even so it can be glossed by its own prologue that confirmed Sora need recovery at some point after a Nobody created from him in Hollow Bastion as base game left with open ending, while Ansem Reports confirmed there were powerful individuals able to retain their human form as Nobodies. The rest is explained by Xemnas there's nothing to missed from COM aside minor inconveniences that Jiminy Journal sudden addition of Marluxia, Larxene, Zexion, Lexaeus and Vexen with clarification that they're defeated by Sora and Riku following that.

Axel is NEVER the executioner.

Base KH II clear enough that he's the errand boy of XIII by mentioning how he tasked to take Roxas back in prologue, later you can compare it with Demyx who insisted "Why me, not the others?" for infiltrating underworld. COM as well by saying he's betraying Marluxia just because he didn't like Marluxia plan of creating his own Keyblade Master rather than Xemnas told him to do so. In case you missed it FYI Re:COM retconned it into Axel reason to do it is because he and Saix do planned to get rid of people tasked to guard Castle Oblivion for unspecified reason.

Never a talked Axel is an Assassin unless you going with personal headcanon that he is Assassin because he command Assassin Nobodies at some point of time. He resorted to forceful method to Roxas because he's pissed by Roxas disagreement. The only difference with FM is just without additional cutscene II simply tell Roxas wanted normal life instead of working for Organization XIII that he got no attachment. FM clarify that Axel is his friend during his days in Organization thus it made sense for Axel to be angry about Roxas mood swing.

Riku using Xehanort Heartless model is answered by himself and DiZ of all people in base game if you read their explanation; FM only added "When Riku started using that body?" while II only implying he used that body to capture Roxas by what he said in prologue and what written in Ansem Reports. Even Axel got enough implication that he's Roxas friend with how he's helping Sora to the point he's willing to sacrifice himself.

So do you need FM to get what happened in KH II? Not really and they handled it much better then leaving "How to save Kairi" to imagination.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Tactics

This is so wrong.

KH I base did come with explanation about Riku.
Even the corruption is clear enough as Maleficent and Xehanort Heartless feed him with negative thought that the Keyblade ended up choosing Sora.
Saying there's no explanation is like you're ignoring how Neverland and Monstro raise point about Sora confusion in how Riku insisted the whole deal is about competition between them with Hollow Bastion come with answer that Riku wield Darkness in agreement to what Maleficent and Xehanort Heartless offered.

And how did Riku begin to trust Maleficient to begin with? You don't think it's strange that someone who was supposed to be your childhood friend suddenly shows up in Traverse Town and trusts Maleficent more than his best friend?

Originally Posted by Tactics

As you finished last boss battle it already telling that Riku possession is ended and he returned to his normal self.
You can get all of that in base game and what you need is as simple as read and look at the presentation. Saying you need Final Mix to understand KH I is not true at all.

What is his "normal self"?
He was not a nice guy in KH1 vanilla, even back at Destiny Islands. From the paopu fruit bet, you could have thought he was a rival competing for Kairi until future games came along.
When you win the race, he gaslights you and says it doesn't count and it's a joke.

The first time you ever see compassion from Riku in vanilla is after he's already possessed by Ansem.
It's not until Final Mix where you get scenes showing that he was worried about Sora and Kairi after getting separated, and that he didn't trust Maleficent at first but cooperated anyway to get Kairi's heart back.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Without CoM you only missed about: Organization XIII? How Sora ended up in memory chamber?
Even so it can be glossed by its own prologue that confirmed Sora need recovery at some point after a Nobody created from him in Hollow Bastion as base game left with open ending, while Ansem Reports confirmed there were powerful individuals able to retain their human form as Nobodies. The rest is explained by Xemnas there's nothing to missed from COM aside minor inconveniences that Jiminy Journal sudden addition of Marluxia, Larxene, Zexion, Lexaeus and Vexen with clarification that they're defeated by Sora and Riku following that.

What irrelevant nonsense are you even talking about? My point was that the original KH2 does not show or explain how Roxas joined the organization or why he even left.
There are no scenes showing this. You are just left to assume that yes he was an Organization member, and that he was kidnapped by Riku and DiZ to data Twilight Town. Did he leave on his own, or was he kidnapped against his will?
You don't see anything until Final Mix.

All that you see is the Deep Dive scene, then Riku on the floor, then cheap shotting Roxas. Okay, so why did Riku turn into Ansem? This isn't in the original game either.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Axel is NEVER the executioner.

Base KH II clear enough that he's the errand boy of XIII by mentioning how he tasked to take Roxas back in prologue, later you can compare it with Demyx who insisted "Why me, not the others?" for infiltrating underworld. COM as well by saying he's betraying Marluxia just because he didn't like Marluxia plan of creating his own Keyblade Master rather than Xemnas told him to do so. In case you missed it FYI Re:COM retconned it into Axel reason to do it is because he and Saix do planned to get rid of people tasked to guard Castle Oblivion for unspecified reason.

Never a talked Axel is an Assassin unless you going with personal headcanon that he is Assassin because he command Assassin Nobodies at some point of time. He resorted to forceful method to Roxas because he's pissed by Roxas disagreement. The only difference with FM is just without additional cutscene II simply tell Roxas wanted normal life instead of working for Organization XIII that he got no attachment. FM clarify that Axel is his friend during his days in Organization thus it made sense for Axel to be angry about Roxas mood swing.

Whatever semantics you want to argue about Axel's job title, it doesn't change that the original never shows that Axel and Roxas used to be friends. You even admit this.

Because of that, it doesn't really make sense why Axel would sacrifice his life to help Sora and try to get Roxas back until Final Mix. The entire Organization talks about Roxas Roxas and Roxas but you never see any of it.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Riku using Xehanort Heartless model is answered by himself and DiZ of all people in base game if you read their explanation; FM only added "When Riku started using that body?" while II only implying he used that body to capture Roxas by what he said in prologue and what written in Ansem Reports. Even Axel got enough implication that he's Roxas friend with how he's helping Sora to the point he's willing to sacrifice himself.

In the World That Never Was, all you get is that Riku used the power of Darkness, therefore he turned into Ansem.
This contradicts with the fact that well, he defeated his inner Ansem and gained control of his darkness in Chain of Memories.

Once again, you are proving my point that this is not in the game and that you are drawing conclusions on your own instead.

Originally Posted by Tactics

So do you need FM to get what happened in KH II? Not really and they handled it much better then leaving "How to save Kairi" to imagination.

Just like you can't accept how you didn't see how Sora saved Kairi and couldn't take the end result at face value, many other people got completely different impressions from what was left out of the original KH1 and KH2.
In the original, Riku was not a nice guy even before he was corrupted. But suddenly he is in CoM?
Riku turns into Ansem using the power of Darkness in KH2, even though this never happens in KH1 and CoM?
The Organization had their own Nobody Keyblade wielder all that time and they let him go without caring? Okay