[Manga] Whitebeard Discussion thread

[MihawkXGP]

Originally Posted by airsBlue

umm.. question ?? why most of people think that Rio Poneglyph ... are in raftel ?? or that roger read all of Poneglyph ?? neither robin nor roger said that in skypie ??

Well On the inscription on the Golden Belfry Roger wrote:
'' I have come here and will lead this passage to the farthest end of the world''.
Meaning he took a key poneglyp which reveals what Robin wants. Farthest end of the world, can only mean Raftel as it is the last Island of the GRAND LINE.

this what i understood from what robin and roger said in skypie, - forgive my spelling- :
Rio poneplygh which contained the lost 100 years histroy doesn't exist, but the lost histroy was divided and encrypted within the ponyplyph stones all of them ( because if a civilization that about to be destroyed wrote thier history or those one hundreads years in one stone the world goverment can easy focuse thier effort locating that stone to hide or destroy it, not making learning that language tabbo, the WG are not affried of the ancient wepon since they destroyed the people that built it.. they just want to hide the histroy ).
now if each 10 years or 20 or 25years were ecrypted within 6 or 8 Poneglyph by reading all or most them you will learn those 10, 20 or 25 years.

now roger was intrested in find the 100 lost years the same as robin he was looking for Rio Poneglyph but he couldn't find it ... he read a lot of Poneglyph but always was about weapon or dead end. until he reached skypie it was another dead end but there was something different this time .. this time he learnt some part of the lost history and then he understand that Rio Poneglyph doesn't exist and by connecting group of Poneglyph togather u can get part of histroy, and then he decided when he reach raftel he will create Rio Poneglyph by writing all of what he read and learn there .. and he send a massage to anyone intrested of joining or helping him to go to raftel with what he read ... because most likely they could have parts that he doesn't have. and that's what robin want to do she will go there read what he wrote and added what she learned to his.

anyway the reason why he wrote that in skypie either
1- because he noticed that first in there so he wrote it to notifie anyone can read it, and he will write that to all other Poneglyph he will read after.
or
2- he belived that anyone can reach skypie can reach raftel so he wanted only the strong ones who can reach raftel to join him.

why i believe he didn't all of them:
1- *spoiler * if he read Orhara Poneglyph i can't see him doing that without the scholers noticing him, if so i doubt the head scholer would let go without teaching them how to read or write, which didn't happen since they continued to study it to learn the language .. even after the WG excuted roger and after year a few they destroyed them. ( orhara in north blue far a way from grandline )

The Island of Ohara is in the West Blue. Roger is from the East Blue and traveled the Grandline.Its unlikely he ever went there.
The Ohara incident took place, in the same year Roger was executed. 22 years ago.

2- i don't thnik he was able to read the Poneglyph in arabsta because he didn't know how to open the tomb .. and even if he could the king and the guards would notice at least notice that.

3- The Poneglyph that was underground which luffy, zoro and chopper found ... do u think he could find it without knowing where to look ?? luffy, zoro and chopper found it by luck and because they needed to cross the desert without being noticing by Croc and his orgnization .. so they falled in there .. i don't see a reason why roger would go there !!!?

The ponegylph found under the desert was only a anime filler episode.

Well, both the lost history and One Piece are located on the same island... So i don't really see why both events won't occur at almost the same time... Or the true history RIGHT before claiming One Piece... I'm willing to wager that the final battle for One Piece will take place right on Raftel, so considering what Luffy has to contend with i think Robin will actually be reading the stone while Luffy's in his final match up

Yes but when the Lost history is known- surely Robin will do what she can to let the world know of it. The Ohara scholars believed that the World had a right to know about its history, including that. So i'm sure she is simply carrying on their will, to uncover the truth.

[Slayerx]

The Island of Ohara is in the West Blue. Roger is from the East Blue and traveled the Grandline.Its unlikely he ever went there.
The Ohara incident took place, in the same year Roger was executed. 22 years ago.

I'm not sure how unlikely it is... i mean, he was the pirate king afterall, it's not hard to imagine that he traveled to other parts of the world

And the ohara incident took place 20 years ago, 2 years after the execution... robin is 28 and she was 8 during the incident... but it doesn't matter when the incident took place, because the Ohara's Stone has probably been on Ohara for sometime, probably long enough for it to be there while Gold Roger was still alive

Yes but when the Lost history is known- surely Robin will do what she can to let the world know of it. The Ohara scholars believed that the World had a right to know about its history, including that. So i'm sure she is simply carrying on their will, to uncover the truth.

Hmmm... might have a point there... While revealing what the lost history is could easily happen before claiming One Piece, the same can't be said about what robin will do with the knowledge... if she does something then it would be kind of hard to detour off from claiming One Piece... it doesn't seem right that it should come after claiming One Piece, but i can't see how it would work out otherwise...

I guess it could be that the series will continue after a new king is crowned... it could be that the series will end after the king performs his first great action as king... Perhaps the fall of the world gov't maybe?... if that's the case then i should rephrase myself... Whitebeard will be Luffy's final battle for One Piece... While if the series continues after One Piece, the true final battle will be between Luffy and someone who is part of world gov't... the man who defeated Gold Roger perhaps (assuming gold roger was beaten in a 1-on-1 fight, ofcourse)?

[Bremm]

While we're on the topic of Poneglyphs...

I'm STILL wondering why Whitebeard hasn't made it to Raftel yet. It just doesn't make sense to me unless he can't find it.

So... what did Roger have, that Whitebeard doesn't?

Roger could read the Poneglyphs. I don't know what translation MihawkXGP has for the Poneglyph in Skypiea, but the one I have reads "We came here, found the text, and followed its guidance." - Gol D. Roger. Robin makes the revelation that there are two kinds of Poneglyphs; Tablets of Clues, and Tablets of Truths. The Tablets of Clues merely point to the location of the Tablets of Truth. Each Tablet of Truth contains a portion of the Lost History, meaning one must find all of the Tablets of Truth and link them together to get the complete Lost History. She surmises that the Tablet at Skypiea was a Tablet of Clues. She actually doesn't read all of the Tablet (like Pluton of Arabasta, this tablet begins with describing 'Poseidon', a great weapon. Robin has no interest in the great weapons, so therefore she does not continue reading it to find Poseidon's location.)

Anyway, in order to find a Tablet of Truth, you must first find the Tablet of Clues that tells the location of that Tablet of Truth. Continue to follow each Clue to find all the Truths, until you reach the final one. Which, Robin thinks, is at Raftel.

So, I'm thinking, what if you can't get to Raftel by Log Pose? What if you can only find the location of Raftel by reading the Tablet of Clues for the last Tablet of Truth? I mean, what if you got so far down the Grand Line that the last island you come to simply sets your Log Pose to the island you just came from? Or never sets at all? The Poses work by magnetism, correct? It points towards the strongest and closest magnetic force (ie, the next island), until you get there. At which point the Pose, I assume, grows accustomed to the magnetic force of the island you are currently on and begins to point towards the next magnetic force... meaning the next island, and so on and so forth. (unless I'm completely misunderstanding how the Poses work, which is possible. If I'm incorrect, feel free to correct me).

Well hot dandy, what if Raftel, being the last island in the Grand Line, isn't the next strongest/closest magnetic force... what then? Or what if the Pose simply never sets. Or takes 100 years to set? Maybe 200? What then? I assume that the weather on the Grand Line worsens the farther you go, until it becomes nigh impossible to sail through, and/or civilizations get sparcer and sparcer until the next island simply isn't inhabitable. Conditions worsen so much that your ship is destroyed, you give up and turn around, maybe starve to death if you can't scrounge up food on those islands. Anyway, the point being that unless you know exactly where you're going, the chances are nil that you'll make it to Raftel. So how did Roger get to Raftel?

Just follow the last Tablet of Clues! Roger got there because he could read the Poneglyphs - Luffy will get there because he has Robin. Whitebeard, on the other hand, even with a fleet of pirate ships, can't get to a place he can't find, now can he?

Using that train of though, I ask myself, what could Roger possibly have that would be the most valuable? He had everything- wealth, fame, power. What One Piece of treasure did he have that was worth more than anything else? What did he have that no other man had?

My best guess was an Eternal Pose for Raftel. His One Greatest Piece of Treasure, the one thing that made him King of Pirates over all other men. The only man to conquer and sail to the end of the Grandline. The thing that would be the most valuable. You get your hands on the Eternal Pose for Raftel, you sail to Raftel, you get all Roger's gold (I assume he must have left a decent amount there ^_^), you're the Pirate King! Rum and wenches for everyone! Hurray! Of course, now you're the most hunted man by the Marines in all the Grand Line, so it's probably not safe to leave such a valuable thing lying around. You'd better hide it somewhere!

Yeah, just throwing my little theory out there.

And on a side-note, what's really interesting about that particular bit of story in Skypiea is that that particular Tablet of Clues pointed to the 'Poseidon' weapon, and that Roger followed that Clue. So does that mean that Roger had in his possession Poseidon? And there's more than one of these great weapons - like the Pluton of Arabasta. Of course, we find out that Pluton at the current time was located in Water 7 (and was in the hands of Tom). It's possible Roger could have found Pluton and extrusted it to Tom (who better, right? Maybe even used it as payment for the Oro Jackson). So then what did Roger do with Poseidon? Or any of the other weapons he uncovered?

[MihawkXGP]

I got that translation from the OP subbed episode done by a certain popular group which did 195 recently.
I'll address the other stuff later on.

[NightShadow]

I heard in the recent yellow book Oda said Whitebeard has a total of SIXTEEN captains working under him? WTF? I thought Ace's level was just under a real Shichibukai, but Whitebeard has a whole army of them!
I sure hope Oda doens't get overwhelmed by his own settings....

[airsBlue]

does this mean the SH will have a total of 17 members ...

[baalthaczaar]

Originally Posted by airsBlue

does this mean the SH will have a total of 17 members ...

well...oda said that the SH would have 10 members (maybe thats only an at least amount) but more than that is a bit much. too many people to be in the crew. and for all of them to be major characters? too much.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by NightShadow

I heard in the recent yellow book Oda said Whitebeard has a total of SIXTEEN captains working under him? WTF? I thought Ace's level was just under a real Shichibukai, but Whitebeard has a whole army of them!
I sure hope Oda doens't get overwhelmed by his own settings....

Well I guess 16 captains is needed for a crew that has about 1600 men.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by baalthaczaar

well...oda said that the SH would have 10 members (maybe thats only an at least amount) but more than that is a bit much. too many people to be in the crew. and for all of them to be major characters? too much.

I think 10 was a "about" amount... i'm sure when but recall hearing once that Oda said he was having trouble wirting for so many characters. I mean, trying to give each character a certain amount of focus in each chapter can be rather challenging... all the more reason why he would want to keep the crew small...

Originally Posted by airsblue

does this mean the SH will have a total of 17 members ...

Really, just because Whitebeard has 16 captains doesn't mean their needs to be a strawhat for each one... just look at the albasta arc for instance... within baraque qorks there were actually a total of like 27 "named" agents, which headed the rest of the unnumbered members... however, only like the top 10 or so really mattered in the end... the rest were just slightly stronger peons, barly worthy of actually being named, Hell, several of them were never even revealed.

So no, i think it's safe to say that even if we do get to see all 16 captains of Whitebeard's fleet, only the top few are gonna actually offer the strawhats a challenge... the rest are gonna be guys that get KO'd in like one or two hits by our heroes... or then again, if they do happen to be strong enough to offer a challenge will just see a few strawhats get in a second fight of which is tough, by not as tough as the final match (just like Luffy VS Blueno)

Originally Posted by NightShadow

I heard in the recent yellow book Oda said Whitebeard has a total of SIXTEEN captains working under him? WTF? I thought Ace's level was just under a real Shichibukai, but Whitebeard has a whole army of them!

If i had to guess, i would say that the captains are probaby in sorta order of strength... The top few are gonna be tough, but when you get down to like division 10, they probably start getting rather weak compared to our heros and guys like the Schikibukai

Spoiler for manga:

Grant it though, that would imply that Marcus is stronger than Ace... Heh, well it could be...
Or it could just be that the strength difference between the two is very marginal, and marcus is 1st based on seniority... afterall, Ace has been on the crew for less than 3 years... With how long Whitebeards been around, Marcus could be like a verteran pirate... he could be even a older than shanks... kinda hard to tell age...

[Rahan]

Originally Posted by NightShadow

I heard in the recent yellow book Oda said Whitebeard has a total of SIXTEEN captains working under him? WTF? I thought Ace's level was just under a real Shichibukai, but Whitebeard has a whole army of them!
I sure hope Oda doens't get overwhelmed by his own settings....

Remember that during the last arc, there were a whole amry of Smoker-level guys and none of them did anything.

[NightShadow]

Well I agree with you guys about Captains must not all equal in terms of strength... otherwise that would be insane.

Also to Rahan, Smoker is in fact stronger than most navy of the same rank - he said that himself "there are tons of guys that are less able than me, yet they are at a higher position." during one of his conversations with Hina(or was it Tashigi?) Also in the yellow book Smoker has indeed risen one level. He's only 1 lvl under vice admiral now.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Remember that during the last arc, there were a whole amry of Smoker-level guys and none of them did anything.

I wouldn't really say that... i mean, yes they were the same rank(captain) as smoker was, but as We know (and what the strawhats don't know), is that smoker was particularly strong for his rank... We know that Smoker deserved to be of higher rank, but was stuck down as captain due to his atitude... not to mention that one can get ranks in the marines without strength due to sucking up and having other qualities (like that commodore during the arlong arc, he got taken care of quite quickly)

so in reality those guys were below Smoker's level

[baalthaczaar]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

I think 10 was a "about" amount... i'm sure when but recall hearing once that Oda said he was having trouble wirting for so many characters. I mean, trying to give each character a certain amount of focus in each chapter can be rather challenging... all the more reason why he would want to keep the crew small...

haha..well what i meant was "at the most" not "at the least". my bad.
and yeah that was my point, having more crew in the strawhats would be too tedious to go into, having to share the spotlight with several other strawhats + other notable characters.

[shankss]

Only thing i wanna learn now Oo

what happened to Whitebeard vs Shanks?
also what the hell happened to his vice-captain Ace? I' wouldnt be sory if hes lying dead in a black vortex thou not a big fan of him...It can even cause Luffy to go rampage against Blackbeard ^^'

I hope they will tell the result of these 2 fights at the end of this arc

[UserName]

Originally Posted by NightShadow

Well I agree with you guys about Captains must not all equal in terms of strength... otherwise that would be insane.

Also to Rahan, Smoker is in fact stronger than most navy of the same rank - he said that himself "there are tons of guys that are less able than me, yet they are at a higher position." during one of his conversations with Hina(or was it Tashigi?) Also in the yellow book Smoker has indeed risen one level. He's only 1 lvl under vice admiral now.

Well I can recall a different translation, but don't remember that scene clearly enough in regards to his rank.

Though either way, Smoker did rise in rank, but he's still 2 ranks below Vice Admiral.

[joel+strawhat]

whitebeard is one hardy gear that can smash luffy with less than one hit, maybe half... but he probably can't last too long, u know, with all those medical equipment he needs. ace is already so stong n 4 him to think WB to be pirate king would mean WB is a guy whose strength rival probably 10 or more Luffys.

Other high officals of Marines who consume devil fruits are all noobies who depend on the devil power to win instead of smoker or luffy who train not only to perfect their powers, but also their real strength.

[Warlord90]

Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world. He has 16 commanders, each of them commanding 100 men. His strongest commanders are Marco, Ace, Jozu and Vista.
WB has eaten the Gura Gura fruit, so he can create quakes by breaking the air, as you break a window.
Sengoku stated that he had the power to destroy the world!!
His only drawback is that he is quite old.

[Lightmgl]

Originally Posted by Bremm

While we're on the topic of Poneglyphs...

I'm STILL wondering why Whitebeard hasn't made it to Raftel yet. It just doesn't make sense to me unless he can't find it.

So... what did Roger have, that Whitebeard doesn't?

Roger could read the Poneglyphs. I don't know what translation MihawkXGP has for the Poneglyph in Skypiea, but the one I have reads "We came here, found the text, and followed its guidance." - Gol D. Roger. Robin makes the revelation that there are two kinds of Poneglyphs; Tablets of Clues, and Tablets of Truths. The Tablets of Clues merely point to the location of the Tablets of Truth. Each Tablet of Truth contains a portion of the Lost History, meaning one must find all of the Tablets of Truth and link them together to get the complete Lost History. She surmises that the Tablet at Skypiea was a Tablet of Clues. She actually doesn't read all of the Tablet (like Pluton of Arabasta, this tablet begins with describing 'Poseidon', a great weapon. Robin has no interest in the great weapons, so therefore she does not continue reading it to find Poseidon's location.)

Anyway, in order to find a Tablet of Truth, you must first find the Tablet of Clues that tells the location of that Tablet of Truth. Continue to follow each Clue to find all the Truths, until you reach the final one. Which, Robin thinks, is at Raftel.

So, I'm thinking, what if you can't get to Raftel by Log Pose? What if you can only find the location of Raftel by reading the Tablet of Clues for the last Tablet of Truth? I mean, what if you got so far down the Grand Line that the last island you come to simply sets your Log Pose to the island you just came from? Or never sets at all? The Poses work by magnetism, correct? It points towards the strongest and closest magnetic force (ie, the next island), until you get there. At which point the Pose, I assume, grows accustomed to the magnetic force of the island you are currently on and begins to point towards the next magnetic force... meaning the next island, and so on and so forth. (unless I'm completely misunderstanding how the Poses work, which is possible. If I'm incorrect, feel free to correct me).

Well hot dandy, what if Raftel, being the last island in the Grand Line, isn't the next strongest/closest magnetic force... what then? Or what if the Pose simply never sets. Or takes 100 years to set? Maybe 200? What then? I assume that the weather on the Grand Line worsens the farther you go, until it becomes nigh impossible to sail through, and/or civilizations get sparcer and sparcer until the next island simply isn't inhabitable. Conditions worsen so much that your ship is destroyed, you give up and turn around, maybe starve to death if you can't scrounge up food on those islands. Anyway, the point being that unless you know exactly where you're going, the chances are nil that you'll make it to Raftel. So how did Roger get to Raftel?

Just follow the last Tablet of Clues! Roger got there because he could read the Poneglyphs - Luffy will get there because he has Robin. Whitebeard, on the other hand, even with a fleet of pirate ships, can't get to a place he can't find, now can he?

Using that train of though, I ask myself, what could Roger possibly have that would be the most valuable? He had everything- wealth, fame, power. What One Piece of treasure did he have that was worth more than anything else? What did he have that no other man had?

My best guess was an Eternal Pose for Raftel. His One Greatest Piece of Treasure, the one thing that made him King of Pirates over all other men. The only man to conquer and sail to the end of the Grandline. The thing that would be the most valuable. You get your hands on the Eternal Pose for Raftel, you sail to Raftel, you get all Roger's gold (I assume he must have left a decent amount there ^_^), you're the Pirate King! Rum and wenches for everyone! Hurray! Of course, now you're the most hunted man by the Marines in all the Grand Line, so it's probably not safe to leave such a valuable thing lying around. You'd better hide it somewhere!

Yeah, just throwing my little theory out there.

And on a side-note, what's really interesting about that particular bit of story in Skypiea is that that particular Tablet of Clues pointed to the 'Poseidon' weapon, and that Roger followed that Clue. So does that mean that Roger had in his possession Poseidon? And there's more than one of these great weapons - like the Pluton of Arabasta. Of course, we find out that Pluton at the current time was located in Water 7 (and was in the hands of Tom). It's possible Roger could have found Pluton and extrusted it to Tom (who better, right? Maybe even used it as payment for the Oro Jackson). So then what did Roger do with Poseidon? Or any of the other weapons he uncovered?

Just to add to this, the recent canon about Shiki and the assumption that Roger would have lost to him had it not been for the misfortune with the weather only fuels the fire that Raftel has some other gimmick preventing people from reaching it. If Shiki's force was stronger than Roger's then I don't see how strength could have been the deciding factor in reaching Raftel.

We are also making an assumption in this thread that WB or pretty much any of the strongest entities in the show actually care about reaching Raftel. If you're already the strongest man in the world, why do you need One Piece? We're certainly not hearing about alot of effort from these powers to reach Raftel, it seems like they spend most of their time fighting amongst themselves.

Everything is just speculation though at this point. Theres simply not enough evidence about Raftel and why nobody else has reached it, including WB. The eternal pose idea is a good one but it can't be OP since OP is hidden on Raftel, it would be lost forever. It brings up another interesting point though.... How does one return from Raftel if it is such an impossible journey to get there? Do it all again? There must be something more to it to account for the fact that that the strongest powers in the ocean aren't sitting in the New World and attacking the end of the grand line constantly. Hell you'd think WB would be going at it nonstop if his power really does let him manipulate land. He'd have the best shot of revealing the island, moving the island, or creating some sort of land bridge to get there.

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by Lightmgl

We are also making an assumption in this thread that WB or pretty much any of the strongest entities in the show actually care about reaching Raftel. If you're already the strongest man in the world, why do you need One Piece? We're certainly not hearing about alot of effort from these powers to reach Raftel, it seems like they spend most of their time fighting amongst themselves.

Yeah.
Its seem to be that conquering the grand line didn't become popular until AFTER Gol D. Roger did it.
Given Shiki's reaction, its seem none of the old school pirates actually cared about being called "Pirate King".

[Gaara7171]

Originally Posted by Warlord90

Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world. He has 16 commanders, each of them commanding 100 men. His strongest commanders are Marco, Ace, Jozu and Vista.
WB has eaten the Gura Gura fruit, so he can create quakes by breaking the air, as you break a window.
Sengoku stated that he had the power to destroy the world!!
His only drawback is that he is quite old.

That is all true, but his age led to his down fall in the end. Akainu wa the on eto really injure him because of his age. Secondly, his age is his only draw back, but it is a big one like I said it lead to his down fall.Not only that but in his youth he was at least 4-6 times stronger then he is now. Plus the Gura Gura fruit isn't that strong if you think about it because it took white beard several quake attaks to destray marine ford.( Blackbeard was the one too acualy destroy it). But them again White beard's age could have something to do with his devil fruit.