Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Tak

You know I still disagree with you about this after 5 years, but whats been said had been said, and I am glad we have decided to move on.

Have we moved on Tak? Have we?, said the man in the GSD FAIL thread...

BTW Enjoy that 4th dot I just giftwrapped for ya^^....

[kaito-kid]

Have we moved on Tak? Have we?

Just pretend that you guys have moved on.. I don't think anyone here wants to see you two wall-text the shit out of each other again.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I don't think anyone here wants to see you two wall-text the shit out of each other again.

I honestly do :P

and i just got in $hit for breaking protocols using work computers on site

[Tak]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Have we moved on Tak? Have we?, said the man in the GSD FAIL thread...

Oh we sure did...

No, you did not see that beam sabre behind my back... *whistles*

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Just pretend that you guys have moved on.. I don't think anyone here wants to see you two wall-text the shit out of each other again.

I hope so too, but if we run out of things to talk about... and 00 topics are drying out fast... who knows?

But I can easily be bribed... you know, with... MG kits Surely, I am not asking for much

- Tak

[Washu-Chan]

Here are some of the more plausible theories on why GSD tanked, in terms of real-life events:

• Fukuda never had plans to do a sequel, but GS's strong DVD sales convinced the Sunrise execs that they should do a sequel
• Morosawa was battling cancer during production, resulting in her turning her scripts in late
• The VAs, esp. Athrun's, Cagalli's, Shinn's and Luna's VAs, clashed with the production staff, resulting in their characters bring derailed*
• The Big Four SEED characters (esp. Kira and Lacus) were still popular with the Japanese audience; because of this, Kira and Co. gradually began taking the spotlight from Shinn, and was completed in ep. 39

*Shinn's VA more or less confirmed the VAs fighting with the production staff recently.

And from the TV Tropes message board (take these for what you will):

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php...9g&page=23#561

Originally Posted by Clawshrimpy

"Director Mitsuo Fukuda's wife is Chiaki Morosawa, the main/lead writer of SEED Destiny, and from what has been said/reported post SEED Destiny was apparently the main reason why the series went downhill. Most sources agree that the original intent was for the series to be divided into three arcs. The first arc which basically aired unaltered was centered around Athrun and Cagalli. The second arc was to be about Kira and Lacus. The third arc which would have been the bulk of the second half of the series would be centered around Shinn with the old characters like Kira and Athrun being moved into the background as support characters. Morosawa, though, for some reason didn't want Kira being shoved out of the spotlight and started doing rewrite after rewrite. Because of all the rewrites, the animation staff either had to do recap eps or reuse stock animation (one notable example was Impulse being accidentally replaced with the original Strike from SEED). It's also the reason why they've had to retcon stuff in either the Special Editions or in the model kits. There's also unconfirmed rumors that Morosawa had issues with some of the voice actors and rewrote some scenes to make the respective characters look bad. While it's never been proven, it would explain the drastic change in Cagalli's character... "

Also check out this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php...9g&page=22#550

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

No he is, look at how the series ended. If Kira was never central to the plot, how come that Athrun's actions were the direct results of Kira's actions? How come Shinn wanted to kill the Freedom's pilot. Kira's actions are relevant and concretely stamped into the plot. Also, it was also Kira's idea to bring Lacus to Earth with him would be critical to the plot. The foiling of Dulindal's grand scheme was credit to how they failed to assassinate, and it's all thanks to...

*the fiance stealin'*
*redhead lovin'*
*Ultimate Coordinator*
Kira Hibiki err... Yamato!

WHOOOOOO~!

[Last_Hope]

After rewatching Destiny I´m actually switching positions, it wasn´t so bad after all. It´s just that it could have been so much more. (I´m excluding the final battle from that though since those final episodes were just poorly done.)

I know I´m kicking in open doors.

In my opinion the biggest problem with Destiny is the fact that it could never decide on a main character. Too many cook´s, so to say. Fans of SEED were disappointed with how the fantastic four was portrayed and those that weren´t so much fond of them were disappointed with how Shinn was portrayed somewhere when Kira started to get involved in the main theme of the show. We also have the fact that somewhere along the line Kira became the main hero and Shinn was shafted and got the badge "Main villain´s Nr one fighter". Or rather, considering the how the ending went, maybe he didn´t even hold that title. Maybe that should go to Rey...

Edit//
If they truly care about SEED the best they can do would be to let it rest a few more years (five perhaps) before redoing most of it like how they did with FMA. In my opinion the first space arc doesn´t need altering and perhaps not up through the episode where Kira comebacks but the episodes after could pretty much be excluded from a remake.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

After rewatching Destiny I´m actually switching positions, it wasn´t so bad after all. It´s just that it could have been so much more. (I´m excluding the final battle from that though since those final episodes were just poorly done.)

I know I´m kicking in open doors.

In my opinion the biggest problem with Destiny is the fact that it could never decide on a main character. Too many cook´s, so to say. Fans of SEED were disappointed with how the fantastic four was portrayed and those that weren´t so much fond of them were disappointed with how Shinn was portrayed somewhere when Kira started to get involved in the main theme of the show. We also have the fact that somewhere along the line Kira became the main hero and Shinn was shafted and got the badge "Main villain´s Nr one fighter". Or rather, considering the how the ending went, maybe he didn´t even hold that title. Maybe that should go to Rey...

How could you write this, then believe that you've actually switched positions?^^ You could have LOVED GSD, and wrote what you just wrote and said you're switching positions to hate it now based on that ;D...

[CsrFSeiei]

Because Kira dosent kill Shin when he has to

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

How could you write this, then believe that you've actually switched positions?^^ You could have LOVED GSD, and wrote what you just wrote and said you're switching positions to hate it now based on that ;D...

I know, I know.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

How could you write this, then believe that you've actually switched positions?^^ You could have LOVED GSD, and wrote what you just wrote and said you're switching positions to hate it now based on that ;D...

While I love to have the option to provide a different opinion as well...

But once I have purchased more than a dozen MG kits from SEED/DESTINY and goddess-only-knows how many HG & other misc kits... I found out, its too late for me to turn from the Dark Side...

Its too late Jim... too late...

- Tak

[GundamFan0083]

My "two-cents."

IMHO, GSD failed to live up to the standards set in SEED.
I thought SEED was one of the best Gundam series to come out in recent years (well before 00 and Unicorn, but time marches on).

Destiny just fell short of expectations.
It wasn't a horrible series (like Blue Seed for example), but it was mediocre at best.
For a Gundam series it was a let down.

The plot had too many holes in it.
To me the drama and tension just wasn't there like it was in SEED.
Athrun verses Kira in SEED was more believable and flowed better than Shin verses Kira.

The rehash of battle scenes was pretty darn bad, but not unheard of in anime.
The arcs were choppy (well the first arc was good).

Other than that I dunno, just seemed like it could have been a better OVA rather than a whole new series.
Something akin to 8th MS or 0083.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

The arcs were choppy (well the first arc was good).

This is another reason GSD is rated so harshly (by me and others)...If it had started off bad, it would have been easy to just be disappointed, but what makes people almost wanna scream at the thought of the show was how absolutely grand the first 4-7 episodes were...At the time I thought that was perhaps the strongest opening I'd seen in Gundam, so to go from that skyhigh, to Sting Clones, Mr. No-Killer Tomatoes, SEED-Mode popstars, etc,...It was like watching a diamond turn back into a clump of crap coal...Let's not even talk about the ending, which was quite frankly the worse work of literature I'd ever encountered (Book, movies, etc.,)..It doesn't help that I'm a masochist, obviously^^...


I mean sometimes I think about what Gilbert was doing and how awesome it would be now given the economical climate following the latest world recession...All the dude did was propose an effin job-fair and went bonkers when he found out Miley Cyrus Clyne was gonna $hit on his plan with a music video...It's really silly that he died over that...But them the breaks...

[Washu-Chan]

Another reason why GSD failed because Sunrise was trying to pander to the following fanbases:

• The UC fandom: While Seed was a re-imagining of MSG, GSD was a blatant homage to UC, hence the inclusion of the UC mobile suits, as well as references to the original show and Zeta.
• The Kira and Lacus (and Athrun) fans: Kira, Athrun, Lacus and Cagalli were still over with the fanbase, and Shinn, despite being the main character, wasn't getting over as Sunrise hoped. As a result, Shinn gets jobbed out to John Cena and Triple H... I mean, Kira and Athrun.

[NoemiChan]

It's Shinn's fault.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Here are some of the more plausible theories on why GSD tanked, in terms of real-life events:

• Fukuda never had plans to do a sequel, but GS's strong DVD sales convinced the Sunrise execs that they should do a sequel
• Morosawa was battling cancer during production, resulting in her turning her scripts in late
• The VAs, esp. Athrun's, Cagalli's, Shinn's and Luna's VAs, clashed with the production staff, resulting in their characters bring derailed*
• The Big Four SEED characters (esp. Kira and Lacus) were still popular with the Japanese audience; because of this, Kira and Co. gradually began taking the spotlight from Shinn, and was completed in ep. 39

[/url]

You already listed this in the Gundam Seed trilogy thread, you make the claim that you feel sorry for Chiaki but you don't show it. You make the claim that Gundam Seed Destiny was beaten in the ratings by Fullmetal Alchemist but we know that's false because Gundam Seed Destiny aired int the same timeslot right after Fullmetal Alchemist.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

You already listed this in the Gundam Seed trilogy thread, you make the claim that you feel sorry for Chiaki but you don't show it. You make the claim that Gundam Seed Destiny was beaten in the ratings by Fullmetal Alchemist but we know that's false because Gundam Seed Destiny aired int the same timeslot right after Fullmetal Alchemist.

Is it me, or is his/her obsession with GSD gradually bordering the unhealthy?

- Tak

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Tak

Is it me, or is his/her obsession with GSD gradually bordering the unhealthy?

- Tak

Are you talking about me or Washu-chan?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Are you talking about me or Washu-chan?

Well, I was replying to you, so it wasn't you

- Tak

[Washu-Chan]

My argument for this is that Fukuda/Morosawa aren't the only people to blame. I also shoulder the blame on the Sunrise/Bandai suits.

After the positive reception (especially among the UC traditionalists) to Seed (due to the fact that it's a re-imagining of the UC [specifically, MSG]), GSD throws in several references/homages to UC (hence the pandering to the UC crowd).

I heard that a similar situation happened to 00's second season. While the first season bore superficial similarities to Wing (despite the head writer saying that he never watched Wing), the second season was more like UC.