AnimeSuki Forums

Xaturas · 2012-05-05, 00:16

Better read the whole thing. As far as I remember anime started drifting since ep 5-6 or so. That was around the point I dropped it, or so I remember.

blade82 · 2012-06-05, 08:54

Laboon can speak

Sageblink · 2012-06-06, 15:00

Yukio should get a shrink. He's pretty annoying right now.

Zakoo · 2012-07-06, 13:03

Hmm is it just me or chapter 37 was kind of half hearted drawn? I feel like seeing me when I was 6 years old.

Anyway end of the arc, quite the bad arc imho.

Nightengale · 2012-09-21, 08:33

Finally.

Honestly, towards the end of the Impure King arc, it felt to me as if the author was facing some kind of writer's block regarding what he wanted to achieve with the next arc ( since the Exorcist Exam is still a fair bit off ), and kinda slowed the pace and played around with filler stories for a bit. And even the filler felt half-assed.

Let's hope the author doesn't lose steam this time round, especially given the foreshadowing of a much deeper shades of gray going into the 'Demon Eaters' storyline.

andrea66 · 2012-10-23, 01:55

I think the Ao no Exorcist is a great anime. Yukio is a very cool man.

konart · 2012-10-23, 04:21

Especially relevant to the manga thread.

Sunder the Gold · 2012-10-23, 21:32

Anyone else feel like an opportunity was lost, all the way back during the camping trip?

The characters and circumstances kept repeating the idea that Rin relies too much on his flames and needs to learn how to resolve problems without them. Primarily, this is to hide the fact that he's Satan's son, but beyond that, it would force him to grow as an Exorcist and a person if he needed to control his temper and learn other methods of dealing with demons.

Methods that would allow him to fight alongside his comrades, because the other things that the chapter hammered away at were friendship and teamwork. Not only did Bon repeat how angry he gets over the fact that Rin runs off to deal with problems on his own, without relying on them, but Bon and the others outright state that they are his friends.

After Amaimon forces Rin to Flame On, all of that goes down the drain.

All that budding friendship? Tanked. Killed in the cradle. Bon and Shiemi, the ones who made the strongest declarations of friendship, then turn around to be the ones who make the strongest renunciations (though in Shiemi's case, it's not really deliberate).

Rin's secret is out, thus completely removing any need to ever hide his flames ever again. (It's instead replaced with a berserker mode that isn't half as interesting, and which doesn't make much sense. Suddenly, we're supposed to believe that he's afraid of his flames -- which has never been hinted at before -- and this fear is what drives him to... use his flames more wildly?)

Rin is suddenly put under a Life Or Death deadline to pass the Exorcist Exam in six months, which his brother deems impossible. Yet, the pace of Rin's life doesn't actually change. He still has just as much time to goof off as before, in between school, training and missions.

Rin is suddenly required to be under 24/7 hour watch... but only two people are assigned to watch after him, one of whom ought to be notoriously unreliable and the other is his brother, who has plenty of other responsibilities. Naturally, significant amounts of time pass where neither of them are monitoring the Son Of Satan, and his life is not especially affected despite the Vatican's paranoia.

What was the point?

But going back again to the camping trip... Shura KNEW that Amaimon was out there, watching and waiting. Yet, not only did she NOT cancel the trip and call for backup, she kept the Koumaken and let Rin out of her sight and beyond the protective circle, AND she rigged a decoy to trick Yukio into leaving the scene of impending battle. Oh, and she was getting herself drunk.

None of that makes sense.

Further, Mephisto explicitly wanted Rin to learn and train and get stronger, so that he could become obviously useful to the Vatican BEFORE they learned he was Satan's Son. So why does he immediately sic his crazy brother on Rin when he KNOWS it's going to blow the boy's cover?

That also makes no sense.

It might have made sense if Mephisto arranged things so agents of the Vatican witnessed Rin defeating Amaimon, thus proving that Rin could be a powerful weapon... but there were too few witnesses to the battle. Even if there were more, they would have seen Satan's Son rampaging like an uncontrollable beast, which wouldn't really fill them with trust and confidence in the boy.

Further, the latest chapters show that if Mephisto hadn't sent Amaimon away, the King of Earth would actually have starting fighting seriously and utterly trash Rin. Even in the anime, where Amaimon was much weaker and Rin "killed" him, Mephisto hadn't actually planned on that rematch happening at all.

If Mephisto was going to turn Amaimon on Rin so soon, why even bother trying to hide Rin's secret at all? Why bother enrolling him in the Exorcist Cram School or giving him the time to take the Ex-Wire test? Why not just reveal him from the start?

Sunder the Gold · 2012-10-27, 15:02

So, if there's Earth (Assiah) and Hell (Gehenna), but no Heaven... why do Bible verses kill demons?

Given that ALL religious holy scriptures seem to have some effect on akuma (since the Kyoto bunch use Sanskrit and Buddhism even more than the Bible) [but the Bible is the only known source of Fatal Verses that instantly kill demons, rather than just binding them], are these things powered by human faith alone, even when the gods of those faiths don't actually exist?

Or... DO they exist? Kuro is an akuma who possessed a cat and came to be worshipped as a god. The whale creature in the latest chapters was probably also a benign akuma, like Nee and the other green-men.

Perhaps the Buddist gods were akuma? Perhaps, in the AnE-verse, the god of the Hebrews was a mighty akuma who opposed Satan, and had Jesus as a half-demon son?

That is to say: Perhaps holy scriptures are effective against demons because somewhere in Gehenna, a mighty demon is answering those prayers?

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-04, 08:46

Courtesy of Crontica, from the anime thread:

Spoiler for :

I've got my own thoughts on how to properly fuse these two settings together, but before I spend the time typing it all out, can I expect any response this time?

I keep posting here, and no one answers.

bigdeal000 · 2012-11-04, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

I've got my own thoughts on how to properly fuse these two settings together, but before I spend the time typing it all out, can I expect any response this time?

I keep posting here, and no one answers.

I'd answer you, but you're out of my league. You're saying things that my brain is not smart enough to respond to. Maybe some other people, but I don't think many still come here.

Sageblink · 2012-11-04, 09:23

Well...

I think it's understandable to be disappointed. Bon and Shiemi being the 2 "closest" to Rin, they are the most disappointed of the gang.
You need to swallow the news.

Regarding Mephisto agenda, it wasn't very clear. But I'm pretty sure he wasn't planning on Amaimon to got psycho over Rin like that.
After all, he was willing to use Rin as a weapon against Satan, right ?

About the holy verses thing, you might be right. Über disappointement from the Vatican to learn that their powers come from a demon. It would be great. But I suspect an "Angel arc" coming to us...

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-04, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sageblink

Regarding Mephisto agenda, it wasn't very clear.

One wonders what he planned to do if Rin hadn't Chosen A Third Option ("Let me be an exorcist!").

Perhaps he would have let the Exorcists with him beat the young man around for a bit before offering membership and servitude as a way to survive?

In which case, Rin beat him to the punch.

Quote:

But I'm pretty sure he wasn't planning on Amaimon to got psycho over Rin like that.

No, it's only in the anime that Amaimon surprises Mephisto. Mephisto was NOT surprised that the battle in the forest turned into a blue inferno.

That's why I attribute the screwiness to a mistake on the author's part. He didn't seem to know what he was doing.

Quote:

About the holy verses thing, you might be right. Über disappointement from the Vatican to learn that their powers come from a demon. It would be great.

That's assuming they don't already know.

It's really Christianity in name only, because the very realities of that world are different from ours.

Rather like Christianity in Type Moon's works -- Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime. There's no way anyone important in any of those fictional Churchs actually believes what the Bible says.

Quote:

But I suspect an "Angel arc" coming to us...

Based on what?

The only "angel" I expect to see in this series is the douchebag with the talking sword. Which is itself probably inhabited by a demon.

Blaat · 2012-11-04, 16:46

Woah puppet guy did something... :O

Sageblink · 2012-11-04, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Based on what?

The only "angel" I expect to see in this series is the douchebag with the talking sword. Which is itself probably inhabited by a demon.

No real clue about it.
I'm just assuming that at some point, always seeing demons could become boring so let's throw another party in this hot mess : the angels.
A plot device to set another arc or even give the story a fresh start.

But again, no real clue on that.

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-05, 15:59

So, a less intense question this time:

Rin's tail. Does it act like a dog's, cat's, or monkey's?

Personally, I think it ought to behave like a monkey's tail.

bigdeal000 · 2012-11-05, 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

So, a less intense question this time:

Rin's tail. Does it act like a dog's, cat's, or monkey's?

Personally, I think it ought to behave like a monkey's tail.

A cat would mean that Rin would have his tail pointed upwards. I haven't seen him wave it like a dog either. I guess monkey's the closest you'll get. And about the way it looks - I have no ideea what animal would come close to that...it looks hairy and messy like no animal I've ever seen. Man, it sure is weird to write Rin's name and think of a guy (Rin is a girl's name). Also, I'm currently watching an anime where you have a girl called Rin, so I keep thinking of her instead.

Gundamx · 2012-11-05, 16:20

donkey tail

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-05, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

A cat would mean that Rin would have his tail pointed upwards. I haven't seen him wave it like a dog either. I guess monkey's the closest you'll get.

A monkey-type tail makes the most sense on a primate's body, after all.

Quote:

Man, it sure is weird to write Rin's name and think of a guy (Rin is a girl's name). Also, I'm currently watching an anime where you have a girl called Rin, so I keep thinking of her instead.

What's weird for me is that the name "Rin" can (or normally does?) mean "Cold", as with Tohsaka Rin.

But Okumura Rin's name officially means "Phospherous"; a substance of light and heat, whose name comes from the phrase "light bringer".

The same phrase that became the name "Lucifer".

Sunder the Gold · 2012-11-07, 16:50

Would the manga have moved too slowly for you all, if Rin's nature as a half-demon had never been exposed?

Suppose that Mephisto never sent Amaimon after Rin - thus never screwing up the ghost-hunt or the training camp in the woods.

If Rin were only sent on missions and training exercises approrpriate to normal Esquires, and always had to solve situations without his flames or by finding ways to use his flames in secret, would that have been interesting?

Would you have been interested to see Rin training to be a Knight-qualified Exorcist, rather than learning how to rely even more (than he already does) on his blue fire and full demon strength?

There are a few things that would seem to work against Rin trying to be a normal Knight, though...

Every Exorcist can just pick up a gun and shoot. It's easy, and safe. It doesn't make them Dragoons, but you don't need to be a superhuman expert to use guns.

Using close-range weapons is not safe. The True Cross Order doesn't have technology or magic to heal major wounds, and most demons are strong enough to fatally wound a human with a lucky hit... and those that aren't so strong might inflict poison or disease, or pierce a weak spot with a precise strike.

Therefore, there can only really be two kinds of Knights - the good, and the dead. And the only two Exorcists we know about who have Knight qualifications are monsters:

Shura was raised by demons before Fujimoto Shiro rescued her; many fan-writers assume she's got demon blood herself. She's also armed with a magical sword that presumably has nine different powers (going by the number of eyes that open and close in the manga when she transforms it).

Angel might be totally human, but an exceptionally talented human. Those crop up in Oriental fiction a lot -- in the one-in-a-million genius. And he ALSO has a magical sword of awesome power.

Magical swords of awesome power aren't easy to come by, and Rin is already carrying one... which he can't afford to use, since it's power comes from his demonic heart, and that's the very thing he needs to keep secret.

He COULDN'T try to qualify as a Knight without either revealing his secret or getting another sword. For that reason, his brother REALLY should have tried giving him a second sword.

Rin would also need to get something like Shura's tattoos, so that he could carry and hide the Koumaken with himself at all times while leaving his hands free. And it would have been smart for Yukio to provide such a thing for Rin before anyone saw the Koumaken, so that no one would question where the first sword went.

Also, Rin would probably need to admit to being half-demon. Though really, if what Izumo says about half-demons in the Order is true, everyone should have already ASSUMED he was half-demon, given his freakish strength, slightly pointed ears, and pronounced eye-teeth.

Admitting to being half-demon isn't the same as admitting to being the Son of Satan. That sort of thing is so far-fetched that no one would jump to that conclusion without bright blue burning proof.

I can forgive Yukio for making THIS mistake though, because it's so close to home that I can believe he's not rational enough to make that call.

I can also understand Mephisto not offering that advice, but only if Mephisto really didn't intend to give Rin time to grow strong before revealing his secret... despite the fact that Mephisto was talking to himself, rather than lying to anyone.

Arglebargle.

2012-05-05, 00:16	Link #21
Xaturas Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	Better read the whole thing. As far as I remember anime started drifting since ep 5-6 or so. That was around the point I dropped it, or so I remember. __________________

2012-09-21, 08:33	Link #25
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Finally. Honestly, towards the end of the Impure King arc, it felt to me as if the author was facing some kind of writer's block regarding what he wanted to achieve with the next arc ( since the Exorcist Exam is still a fair bit off ), and kinda slowed the pace and played around with filler stories for a bit. And even the filler felt half-assed. Let's hope the author doesn't lose steam this time round, especially given the foreshadowing of a much deeper shades of gray going into the 'Demon Eaters' storyline. __________________ *Night~and~Gale: ~ The Final Mythology of the Man who Defied Destiny.* The sleeping lion shall awaken beyond the depths of time, crossing ten billion lights, come to Terra.

2012-10-23, 04:21	Link #27
konart Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Moscow, RU Age: 35	Especially relevant to the manga thread. __________________

2012-11-04, 16:46	Link #34
Blaat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	Woah puppet guy did something... :O __________________ MyAnimeList

2012-06-05, 08:54	Link #22
blade82 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: you have to find out	Laboon can speak

2012-06-06, 15:00	Link #23
Sageblink Speculation is wrong. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Paris	Yukio should get a shrink. He's pretty annoying right now.

2012-07-06, 13:03	Link #24
Zakoo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Gensokyo	Hmm is it just me or chapter 37 was kind of half hearted drawn? I feel like seeing me when I was 6 years old. Anyway end of the arc, quite the bad arc imho.

2012-10-23, 01:55	Link #26
andrea66 Banned Join Date: Sep 2012	I think the Ao no Exorcist is a great anime. Yukio is a very cool man.

2012-10-23, 21:32	Link #28
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Anyone else feel like an opportunity was lost, all the way back during the camping trip? The characters and circumstances kept repeating the idea that Rin relies too much on his flames and needs to learn how to resolve problems without them. Primarily, this is to hide the fact that he's Satan's son, but beyond that, it would force him to grow as an Exorcist and a person if he needed to control his temper and learn other methods of dealing with demons. Methods that would allow him to fight alongside his comrades, because the other things that the chapter hammered away at were friendship and teamwork. Not only did Bon repeat how angry he gets over the fact that Rin runs off to deal with problems on his own, without relying on them, but Bon and the others outright state that they are his friends. After Amaimon forces Rin to Flame On, all of that goes down the drain. All that budding friendship? Tanked. Killed in the cradle. Bon and Shiemi, the ones who made the strongest declarations of friendship, then turn around to be the ones who make the strongest renunciations (though in Shiemi's case, it's not really deliberate). Rin's secret is out, thus completely removing any need to ever hide his flames ever again. (It's instead replaced with a berserker mode that isn't half as interesting, and which doesn't make much sense. Suddenly, we're supposed to believe that he's afraid of his flames -- which has never been hinted at before -- and this fear is what drives him to... use his flames more wildly?) Rin is suddenly put under a Life Or Death deadline to pass the Exorcist Exam in six months, which his brother deems impossible. Yet, the pace of Rin's life doesn't actually change. He still has just as much time to goof off as before, in between school, training and missions. Rin is suddenly required to be under 24/7 hour watch... but only two people are assigned to watch after him, one of whom ought to be notoriously unreliable and the other is his brother, who has plenty of other responsibilities. Naturally, significant amounts of time pass where neither of them are monitoring the Son Of Satan, and his life is not especially affected despite the Vatican's paranoia. What was the point? But going back again to the camping trip... Shura KNEW that Amaimon was out there, watching and waiting. Yet, not only did she NOT cancel the trip and call for backup, she kept the Koumaken and let Rin out of her sight and beyond the protective circle, AND she rigged a decoy to trick Yukio into leaving the scene of impending battle. Oh, and she was getting herself drunk. None of that makes sense. Further, Mephisto explicitly wanted Rin to learn and train and get stronger, so that he could become obviously useful to the Vatican BEFORE they learned he was Satan's Son. So why does he immediately sic his crazy brother on Rin when he KNOWS it's going to blow the boy's cover? That also makes no sense. It might have made sense if Mephisto arranged things so agents of the Vatican witnessed Rin defeating Amaimon, thus proving that Rin could be a powerful weapon... but there were too few witnesses to the battle. Even if there were more, they would have seen Satan's Son rampaging like an uncontrollable beast, which wouldn't really fill them with trust and confidence in the boy. Further, the latest chapters show that if Mephisto hadn't sent Amaimon away, the King of Earth would actually have starting fighting seriously and utterly trash Rin. Even in the anime, where Amaimon was much weaker and Rin "killed" him, Mephisto hadn't actually planned on that rematch happening at all. If Mephisto was going to turn Amaimon on Rin so soon, why even bother trying to hide Rin's secret at all? Why bother enrolling him in the Exorcist Cram School or giving him the time to take the Ex-Wire test? Why not just reveal him from the start?

2012-10-27, 15:02	Link #29
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	So, if there's Earth (Assiah) and Hell (Gehenna), but no Heaven... why do Bible verses kill demons? Given that ALL religious holy scriptures seem to have some effect on akuma (since the Kyoto bunch use Sanskrit and Buddhism even more than the Bible) [but the Bible is the only known source of Fatal Verses that instantly kill demons, rather than just binding them], are these things powered by human faith alone, even when the gods of those faiths don't actually exist? Or... DO they exist? Kuro is an akuma who possessed a cat and came to be worshipped as a god. The whale creature in the latest chapters was probably also a benign akuma, like Nee and the other green-men. Perhaps the Buddist gods were akuma? Perhaps, in the AnE-verse, the god of the Hebrews was a mighty akuma who opposed Satan, and had Jesus as a half-demon son? That is to say: Perhaps holy scriptures are effective against demons because somewhere in Gehenna, a mighty demon is answering those prayers?

2012-11-04, 08:46	Link #30
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Courtesy of Crontica, from the anime thread: Spoiler for : I've got my own thoughts on how to properly fuse these two settings together, but before I spend the time typing it all out, can I expect any response this time? I keep posting here, and no one answers.

2012-11-04, 09:23	Link #32
Sageblink Speculation is wrong. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Paris	Well... I think it's understandable to be disappointed. Bon and Shiemi being the 2 "closest" to Rin, they are the most disappointed of the gang. You need to swallow the news. Regarding Mephisto agenda, it wasn't very clear. But I'm pretty sure he wasn't planning on Amaimon to got psycho over Rin like that. After all, he was willing to use Rin as a weapon against Satan, right ? About the holy verses thing, you might be right. Über disappointement from the Vatican to learn that their powers come from a demon. It would be great. But I suspect an "Angel arc" coming to us...

2012-11-05, 15:59	Link #36
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	So, a less intense question this time: Rin's tail. Does it act like a dog's, cat's, or monkey's? Personally, I think it ought to behave like a monkey's tail.

2012-11-05, 16:20	Link #38
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	donkey tail

2012-11-07, 16:50	Link #40
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Would the manga have moved too slowly for you all, if Rin's nature as a half-demon had never been exposed? Suppose that Mephisto never sent Amaimon after Rin - thus never screwing up the ghost-hunt or the training camp in the woods. If Rin were only sent on missions and training exercises approrpriate to normal Esquires, and always had to solve situations without his flames or by finding ways to use his flames in secret, would that have been interesting? Would you have been interested to see Rin training to be a Knight-qualified Exorcist, rather than learning how to rely even more (than he already does) on his blue fire and full demon strength? There are a few things that would seem to work against Rin trying to be a normal Knight, though... Every Exorcist can just pick up a gun and shoot. It's easy, and safe. It doesn't make them Dragoons, but you don't need to be a superhuman expert to use guns. Using close-range weapons is not safe. The True Cross Order doesn't have technology or magic to heal major wounds, and most demons are strong enough to fatally wound a human with a lucky hit... and those that aren't so strong might inflict poison or disease, or pierce a weak spot with a precise strike. Therefore, there can only really be two kinds of Knights - the good, and the dead. And the only two Exorcists we know about who have Knight qualifications are monsters: Shura was raised by demons before Fujimoto Shiro rescued her; many fan-writers assume she's got demon blood herself. She's also armed with a magical sword that presumably has nine different powers (going by the number of eyes that open and close in the manga when she transforms it). Angel might be totally human, but an exceptionally talented human. Those crop up in Oriental fiction a lot -- in the one-in-a-million genius. And he ALSO has a magical sword of awesome power. Magical swords of awesome power aren't easy to come by, and Rin is already carrying one... which he can't afford to use, since it's power comes from his demonic heart, and that's the very thing he needs to keep secret. He COULDN'T try to qualify as a Knight without either revealing his secret or getting another sword. For that reason, his brother REALLY should have tried giving him a second sword. Rin would also need to get something like Shura's tattoos, so that he could carry and hide the Koumaken with himself at all times while leaving his hands free. And it would have been smart for Yukio to provide such a thing for Rin before anyone saw the Koumaken, so that no one would question where the first sword went. Also, Rin would probably need to admit to being half-demon. Though really, if what Izumo says about half-demons in the Order is true, everyone should have already ASSUMED he was half-demon, given his freakish strength, slightly pointed ears, and pronounced eye-teeth. Admitting to being half-demon isn't the same as admitting to being the Son of Satan. That sort of thing is so far-fetched that no one would jump to that conclusion without bright blue burning proof. I can forgive Yukio for making THIS mistake though, because it's so close to home that I can believe he's not rational enough to make that call. I can also understand Mephisto not offering that advice, but only if Mephisto really didn't intend to give Rin time to grow strong before revealing his secret... despite the fact that Mephisto was talking to himself, rather than lying to anyone. Arglebargle.