To Aru Kagaku no Railgun - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Lol Shirai's panties and Misaka's panties .

Wonder why Misaka was chasing Touma (don't remember)

Next episode : Seems that a little boy will disturb them .

I think it's a girl........

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

first episode did; episode 2 didn't.


And the fact that people who haven't read the manga are also disappointed is pretty indicative that it's not manga-following that's the problem.

I still encourage people to continue with the series as I'm sure they'll get their footing back one way or another, whether it be by following the manga or through anime-original material.

and no serenade, not just biri-biri screentime lol)

Otherwise, why animate a manga you aren't going to follow?
Make a new series, and then you won't have to worry about those people who do condemn a series for not following its manga, like they have for years and years.

It's better than adding a random fight scene. What, they put a random thug and have Mikoto shoot a railgun and the episode gets better? In that case, they might as well rewind to the OP and loop the railgun scene over and over again.
You say they didn't give you railgun when they say they would, but, uh... Mikoto=Railgun, and she clearly appeared...

...?

Beh, don't mind them. It isn't worth the time if those people are judging the entire anime from one episode...

...? I didn't say she was the only reason the manga is popular.

Who knows... You can ask that about a lot of anime. Use the same setting and characters, but move in a different direction...? I guess you can find out if you join one of those animation teams...

[MeisterBabylon]

I rofl at how this Railgun discussion thread has turned sour in the opposite direction of a typical Index episode thread. As we learnt before 1 anime season ago, there's no pleasing you guys...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Well since this series is Toaru Kagaku no Railgun, I'm pretty sure we're expecting them to give us Toaru Kagaku no Railgun.

Let's let the profundity of that statement sink in for a moment, while we also consider the logical conclusion that even the people who enjoyed the episode expected them to give us Toaru Kagaku no Railgun. Hence this:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

The first episode did; episode 2 didn't.

...is an illogical conclusion based on overly-obvious premise.

My entire argument is simple: open your mind. Stop trying to force this show into the narrow box of your preconceptions on what it's "supposed to be", and allow the show a chance to demonstrate the director's vision for what he feels the show is all about. It might not be what you think it's supposed to be, and maybe that's okay!

Understanding and appreciating a story is about a lot more than digesting and appreciating each and every one of the contextless bite-sized parts. You don't even know where they're going with all this yet, you only think you know.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I most certainly agree that we need to stay focused on the fact that we're only two episodes in, but as for this episode itself, it did betray what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is (you don't see a show like Bleach totally leaving the action behind; even the Kanonji filler episodes had action), so on that part alone people are founded in their disappointment.

More ridiculous dramatics here. The episode "betray[ed] what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is"? Really? Says you? Do you even realize the intensity of the language you're using to convey your personal opinions as absolute fact?

Please rejoin the realm of us mortals here on the ground floor. I'm quite certain that the team of writers, artists, planners, producers, and directors working on this show have spent a lot more time considering "what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is" than you or I have. I think we can cut them a bit of slack at these early stages of the game, and wait to see what they're trying to tell us through this story. And if it turns out that what they think "it is" is different than what you thought it was, who says that they're wrong and that you're right?

It's not that I think this show is so great, or by any means that I think it's above criticism. There are certainly points that can be criticized, and it's reasonable that people's expectations may change based on the evidence going into a show. But, at the same time, you need to apply a bit of perspective, and it doesn't solve things when you try to brush off your over-stated assertions by "keep in mind I gave it a 7!". You're looking at a small piece of a large puzzle and using that to extrapolate the entire picture and pass judgement. Right now, no matter how well you think you know the manga, you can't see the forest for the trees for this anime. None of us can. Give it time, see where the story leads us, contemplate, reflect, and then decide if the net result, on the whole, does a good job of conveying the themes and messages it set out to convey. Because -- more profound non-logic -- this anime only is whatever they make it to be, and none of us know what that will look like yet.

This is exactly why I hate episode threads... context is everything, and a single episode is not context! Sigh...

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Proto

Well, given that this episode was not even supposed to count towards plot development, but character interaction development (note the difference with character interaction) I wouldn't see why it counts towards a plot progression mark.

What "character interaction development?" At the end of the episode, and all the way through it, nothing has changed; Mikoto is still rejective of Kuroko's advances, Kuroko is still Oneesama-obsessed, Uiharu still looks up to Mikoto, and Saten still gets along with them. There's no development on any level or in any form.

Or maybe it's just me that wuuldn't mind if this show took a more Someday Dreamers like approach, even if I know that we will soon reach the PLOT that everyone seems to love so much these days.

Well since this show isn't Someday Dreamers, and is Toaru Kagaku no Railgun, I think it's okay for us to expect Railgun and not Someday Dreamers.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

It's better than adding a random fight scene. What, they put a random thug and have Mikoto shoot a railgun and the episode gets better? In that case, they might as well rewind to the OP and loop the railgun scene over and over again.
You say they didn't give you railgun when they say they would, but, uh... Mikoto=Railgun, and she clearly appeared...

Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say "they should throw in random anything"? (nice to see you still do that...or maybe not so nice) How about something, say not random? Is that hard?
And um, no, if you think Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is simply about Mikoto appearing......then you really aren't seeing much here.....

...? I didn't say she was the only reason the manga is popular.

Erm, that was sarcasm.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I rofl at how this Railgun discussion thread has turned sour in the opposite direction of a typical Index episode thread. As we learnt before 1 anime season ago, there's no pleasing you guys...

I have to admit, I resent that statement. You're basically just throwing us all into the same group and acting like we aren't justified in our disappointment. I'm always the one arguing for a series (both serenade and relentless can both testify to this), including Index, so I for one would appreciate it if you didn't just so casually lob me into a group generalization in a flimsy effort to debunk my point.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

My entire argument is simple: open your mind. Stop trying to force this show into the narrow box of your preconceptions on what it's "supposed to be", and allow the show a chance to demonstrate the director's vision for what he feels the show is all about. It might not be what you think it's supposed to be, and maybe that's okay!

Except you are certainly one of the people who knows my mind is open to a lot of stuff, but I won't say I like something not good (in the context of this series) just to appease the aye-sayers. What "forcing" is there here? Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is supposed to have a plot and isn't just random stuff. This episode clearly falls outside that box. It's not like I'm in charge of the series; it was the manga writer who made Railgun that way, and if the anime staff are trying to make something so different (which would totally puzle me; why say they're making a Railgun anime from the manga if that's not what they're making), then I'd have to blame them for being idiots. When you make an adaptation of something, how can you not expect people to use the base material as a PoV?

That said, in this particular area I digress; As I said (and I guess you missed the several times I said this), I'm perfectly fine with them making anime-original material, plot-related or not, manga-accurate or not, as long as it's good. Watching a bunch of random Kuroko crazing over Mikoto with absolutely nothing happening is not what I consider good. At least it was a good laugh though.

Understanding and appreciating a story is about a lot more than digesting and appreciating each and every one of the contextless bite-sized parts. You don't even know where they're going with all this yet, you only think you know.

As I said above and previously several times, I don't mind if they're taking this in a not-exactly-as-I-thought direction, as long as it's good. You're arguing with points that I'm not really bashing this series for.

More ridiculous dramatics here. The episode "betray[ed] what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is"? Really? Says you? Do you even realize the intensity of the language you're using to convey your personal opinions as absolute fact?

Please don't start to do things like flimsily wave off what people say with cheap statements like "more ridiculous dramatics." I respect you too much to see you be cheap like that. And don't try and turn some idea of "you don't know what you're saying." I know what I'm saying; episode 2 did betray what the manga is about as the manga is clearly far more plot-driven then this episode, but as I said many times before and I'll say AGAIN, I'm perfectly open to not sticking to the manga, as long as it's good. Random, empty episodes I don't consider to be so good.

Please rejoin the realm of us mortals here on the ground floor. I'm quite certain that the team of writers, artists, planners, producers, and directors working on this show have spent a lot more time considering "what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is" than you or I have. I think we can cut them a bit of slack at these early stages of the game, and wait to see what they're trying to tell us through this story. And if it turns out that what they think "it is" is different than what you thought it was, who says that they're wrong and that you're right?

And there you go again with that disrespectful tone....I would expect this from certain other people, but not from you. Not only have you either missed or ignored what I've said several times (the part where I don't mind anime-original material) but then you whip out "the tone." Please don't. I'm not going to reply to the rest since it's just you taking something you're misunderstanding and going too far with it.

Last time: I DON'T MIND AT ALL IF IT'S NOT WORD-FOR-WORD WHAT THE MANGA IS, OR IF IT TAKES A NEW DIRECTION. NOR DO I SEE THIS ONE, SINGLE EPISODE AS A CONTEXT FOR THE ENTIRE SERIES. I'M PERFECTLY WILLING TO WAIT AND SEE HOW IT TURNS OUT BEFORE CALLING JUDGEMENT ON AN ENTIRE SERIES. Stop putting words in my mouth, and stop treating me like those narrow-minded "MANGA RULEZ ALL ELSE SUCKS" guys that I'm always debating against. It's getting quite frustrating. I do, however, care whether or not it's GOOD. And when nothing happens, whether it be plot, character development, or whatever, I don't consider that "good."

This is exactly why I hate episode threads... context is everything, and a single episode is not context! Sigh...

It would probably help if you payed attention to what someone says before running off on the Whole Nine Yards with a misunderstanding under the arm.

*finishes ripping apart a poor pillow*

*sharp breath*

[MeisterBabylon]

Ah my apologies! I was only refering to the detractors, but I guess my last statement messed it up...

[Ashlotte]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Actually, the reactions sort of continue the trend from Index of people apparently mistaking the show's genre. With Index people seemed to be expected an romantic action drama (like Shana), but what they got instead was a preachy sci-fi (which I still say is a perfectly acceptable genre on its own, it's just not what people expected). And now, people built up expectations for themselves like "finally, we'll be getting an action series without the preachiness!", and instead the director said that the show would focus on the friendship between the girls. In all cases I think the show will have its fans, but for some reason the English-speaking audience seems to have a real time categorizing this franchise in their minds, or fitting it into the Japanese directors's visions for the respective shows.

Regardless, I think I pretty much agree with you regarding the episode proper.

Eh pretty much sums it up for me...Fortunately though if this one becomes more the genre that you described then I can actually manage to enjoy it after I adjust expectations whereas Index it was never gonna happen.

[brain]

My, this series is a lot of fun so far! I decided on a whim to start this one even after I couldn't manage to enjoy Index enough to watch past the fifth episode. Seems like indeed there is no need to have watched/read Index to jump right into this storyline. They are taking their time with the pacing to allow for proper character development, which is quite the welcome change. Poor ecchi Kuroko; it looks like her love will always be unrequited :'(

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

More ridiculous dramatics here. The episode "betray[ed] what Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is"? Really? Says you? Do you even realize the intensity of the language you're using to convey your personal opinions as absolute fact?

You missed the point of what he was trying to say. He was trying to point out that anyone who believes this episode was bad has a perfectly legitimate argument. For me, this episode seemed go in a completely different direction than the first one. Episode 1 gave me the impression that it may be like "To Aru Majutsu no Index" but the only scene from episode 2 that was like that was the one with Touma near the beginning. But this is just my personal opinion and I don't understand why you're so insistant in shooting it down.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

This is exactly why I hate episode threads... context is everything, and a single episode is not context! Sigh...

Having rarely posted outside the Umineko forums has now made me appreciate what a really good mod Klashikari is.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

It would probably help if you payed attention to what someone says before running off on the Whole Nine Yards with a misunderstanding under the arm.

I have heard you loud and clear saying all along that you're open to change. Trust me, I hear you say that. But that isn't actually all you're saying either. Let me try to summarize the way I've read your opinion, and you can tell me where you disagree. "I'm okay with change so long as it's good, and the changes in this episode betray the manga and just aren't good." Is that a fair summary?

I'm sorry that I resorted to such direct language to try to convey my message. Tone can be a difficult thing to convey in text, and clearly you took things more personally than I intended for them to be. I never intended this as some sort of personal attack, and I apologize that it came across that way.

However, although I know you're really trying to stay open-minded here, I still find the juxtaposition of "I'm open-minded as long as it's good" very hard to grapple with.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

it was the manga writer who made Railgun that way, and if the anime staff are trying to make something so different [...] then I'd have to blame them for being idiots.

Again, I know you mean well, but the implications of this sentence are kind of damning. If the staff reinvent the show in a new way, and it appeals to a certain (maybe different?) audience, is that really idiotic?

Originally Posted by Shinji103

And when nothing happens, whether it be plot, character development, or whatever, I don't consider that "good."

But if other people enjoy it and they consider it good, what does this tell us on the whole? It's a conundrum.

I certainly know that you're no manga purist. I was never trying to claim or imply that. But at the same time, most of the people I do see as manga purists would all vehemently deny that they are; they always say that they'd be okay with changes, as long as those changes are good. The flipside is that, in an almost-overwhelming amount of changes, they think virtually any change the anime makes is bad. This isn't generally because they dogmatically think that manga is better than anime on some sort of principle, but it's because of the expectations that have accumulated based on their prior exposure, and whatever the idea they have in their head of what it could have been like. In other words, I don't believe that people are manga purists by "choice". They're manga purists as a result of the continual disappointment of unmet expectations.

I believe, based on your posts, that you have certain expectations (relatively high ones, I think?) on what this show can and should deliver. I think that's great, and I'm not trying to rob you of those expectations. But I did feel that you were coming across rather strongly in your claims that this episode fails to fit the definition of what this show should be, according to your reading of the manga. My caution is simply that the show could go off in its own direction that's different than the manga, and other people (not necessarily you) may like it this way. While I certainly would by no means expect you to be pleased if that were the case, please also don't rob others of the privilege of loving something you may end up considering abominable. And to that end, I would encourage extended manga/anime comparisons to be kept out of episode threads, because what this show is and what the manga was/is aren't necessarily one and the same.

I hope that makes sense without being too presumptuous or over-bearing. There's a lot more that I could say, but I'd rather not open the door to even more misunderstandings.

Originally Posted by Ssol

Having rarely posted outside the Umineko forums has now made me appreciate what a really good mod Klashikari is.

I only claim to be a fallible human being like everyone else. I sometimes state things more directly than I should, and I make my share of mistakes. I try to apologize when I've wronged people. But, mod title aside, I'll always be unapologetically the same "me" that I was before I got this title. And sometimes that will cause more misunderstandings because people will only see the "title" and won't see me. But that's just how it is.

[Clarste]

Plenty of people who aren't manga readers don't like this direction though, as we've seen in this thread. Certainly some potential viewers are going to abandon this series, under the assumption that it's all going to be like this. And maybe it is, who knows? But if it isn't, and instead intends to eventually get to the parts that made manga readers call it great, then we just lost a bunch of viewers entirely from poor planning. And I'd call that a failure on the part of the producers.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Plenty of people who aren't manga readers don't like this direction though, as we've seen in this thread. Certainly some potential viewers are going to abandon this series, under the assumption that it's all going to be like this. And maybe it is, who knows? But if it isn't, and instead intends to eventually get to the parts that made manga readers call it great, then we just lost a bunch of viewers entirely from poor planning. And I'd call that a failure on the part of the producers.

On this point, only time will tell. Is it a net loss? A net gain? Are perceptions here different than they are in Japan? Will the changes make more sense in context? It's all a big unknown at this point. I'm just saying that I think it's a bit early for pitchforks... but if people have already decided after two episodes to drop the show, then I guess that's up to them (though I suspect that, as often happens in such cases, they could come back). We'll see...

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I have heard you loud and clear saying all along that you're open to change. Trust me, I hear you say that. But that isn't actually all you're saying either. Let me try to summarize the way I've read your opinion, and you can tell me where you disagree. "I'm okay with change so long as it's good, and the changes in this episode betray the manga and just aren't good." Is that a fair summary?

A fair and put-in-the-most-negative-way-and-form-possible summary, yes.

However, although I know you're really trying to stay open-minded here, I still find the juxtaposition of "I'm open-minded as long as it's good" very hard to grapple with.

Holy cow, that's probably even more of a put-in-the-most-negative-way-and-form-possible than your above summary. So because I'm open to non-manga-accurate material, I'm not allowed to think a part of the anime isn't good? That's pretty arrogant.

Again, I know you mean well, but the implications of this sentence are kind of damning. If the staff reinvent the show in a new way, and it appeals to a certain (maybe different?) audience, is that really idiotic?

Idiotic as in "why are you telling us you're making one thing but making something else?" If they want to make something, they shouldn't tell us they're making something else, so if they want to change around Railgun to make the anime more focused on the character interractions, which will make it significantly different than the manga, then they should say so so they don't have manga purists sending them hate mail over it (and we do know they do this, as sad as it is), not to mention which so they don't give people false expectations. I think that'd be pretty easy for them to figure out after all these years of making anime; it's not like JC Staff is a new company, and even if the staff for this particular show were composed entirely of new guys, you'd think somebody would come up with this idea. If you do something like taking a manga and then changing it significantly without warning, the best you'll do is scare off potential viewers. And lo and behold.

But if other people enjoy it and they consider it good, what does this tell us on the whole? It's a conundrum.

Did I ever say that because I thought it wasn't good, other people can't like it? I'm calling it how I see it, not how I think other people should see it.

I certainly know that you're no manga purist. I was never trying to claim or imply that. But at the same time, most of the people I do see as manga purists would all vehemently deny that they are; they always say that they'd be okay with changes, as long as those changes are good.

So, you're basically setting up a backdoor for people to call others manga purists no matter what they say. That no matter what I say, people can just rage against me and call me a manga-purist because I just happen to not like one single particular episode of half-anime-original material? This is borderline witch-hunting. What am I supposed to do, say I think it's all good and I like it just to appease the hunters?

The flipside is that, in an almost-overwhelming amount of changes, they think virtually any change the anime makes is bad. This isn't generally because they dogmatically think that manga is better than anime on some sort of principle, but it's because of the expectations that have accumulated based on their prior exposure, and whatever the idea they have in their head of what it could have been like. In other words, I don't believe that people are manga purists by "choice". They're manga purists as a result of the continual disappointment of unmet expectations.

And more door-opening for witch-hunting. You realize you're only potentially making things worse, right? So because a part of the anime I don't like happens to be anime-original, my "expectations" make me a manga-purist? I don't know why I'm not being enraged by this. All this sounds like excuse-making for calling people manga-purists, or trying to make cheap excuses for dismissing people who don't like something in an anime.

I believe, based on your posts, that you have certain expectations (relatively high ones, I think?) on what this show can and should deliver.

Half wrong; expectations on "can", yes. What's wrong with having expectations on what something can deliver? Expectations on "should," wrong. Unless you count something like "I saw bad guy A appear in the OP for the anime so he/she, and plot surrounding him/her, should appear sometime" as too high an expectation. I can't say much without giving away spoilers, but one (technically two) of Mikoto's opponents in major battles from the manga was shown in the OP, and no, that opponent can't be changed in the storyline so he/she can be introduced without a battle. (again, I can't elaborate or explain due to spoiler-evasion) Soooo, is there something wrong with me and other manga readers expecting that the story around that particular opponent should appear after being so clearly displayed in the OP?

I think that's great, and I'm not trying to rob you of those expectations. But I did feel that you were coming across rather strongly in your claims that this episode fails to fit the definition of what this show should be, according to your reading of the manga.

Wrong again. You also once again demonstrate that you don't get my point. It has NOTHING to do with what the manga was like. My judgement of this episode has to do with how good the episode was as a product of entertainment, period.

1) Too much Kuroko crazing over Mikoto

2) Nothing else happening at all

3) What's the point of the episode?

Unless you think I'm flawed in thinking there should be a point to the episode.

My caution is simply that the show could go off in its own direction that's different than the manga, and other people (not necessarily you) may like it this way.

And in the same way, other people most likely won't like it this way (not, not "necessarily," NOT me), so as per one of my original points back before you lost track of it (as pointed out by Ssol above), these people have a legitimate reason for not liking this episode. It's not like the staff said "Hey we're going to use Railgun's story but take it in a diferent direction, so your mileage may vary." So it's kinda hard for some people to not expect the plot of the Railgun manga in the Railgun anime.

While I certainly would by no means expect you to be pleased if that were the case, please also don't rob others of the privilege of loving something you may end up considering abominable. And to that end, I would encourage extended manga/anime comparisons to be kept out of episode threads, because what this show is and what the manga was/is aren't necessarily one and the same.

How am I robbing others of "the privilege of loving something I may end up considering abominable"? I'm not telling them to stop watching the show; I'm making my own judgement call. Anybody and everybody else is perfectly open to see the episode for themselves.
Not to mention which I don't know where you get that last part about possibly considering the series abominable, simply from me not liking one episode of a 12-24 episode series. You're the one saying not to jump to conclusions; you just made half a jump yourself.
And I'm hoping that last line wasn't you mixing things up again, but to be safe: I'm NOT saying the episode was below par because it failed to compare to the manga.

[Proto]

[QUOTE=Shinji103;2697186]What "character interaction development?" At the end of the episode, and all the way through it, nothing has changed; Mikoto is still rejective of Kuroko's advances, Kuroko is still Oneesama-obsessed, Uiharu still looks up to Mikoto, and Saten still gets along with them. There's no development on any level or in any form.

Actually, there I meant to say character interaction development over character development, but still, development can go 2 ways. Actual character (interaction) development where its the character dynamics the ones that actually change in the show (which would be what you were referring to), or development in the sense that the dynamics are elaborated for the viewers in ways or details that hadn't been exposed previously, even if the dynamics themselves do not change. Although I'm loathe to use the term, since I don't really agree with this particular classification, this is what would qualify as a character oriented slice of life episode.

Well since this show isn't Someday Dreamers, and is Toaru Kagaku no Railgun, I think it's okay for us to expect Railgun and not Someday Dreamers.
*sharp breath*

Uh... well yeah, that's why I said that maybe it's just me. Or maybe you could suggest another way in which it is a litte more obvious in that... well, it's just me. You are free to expect whatever you want though, don't mind me. /me hand waves.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Clarste

PBut if it isn't, and instead intends to eventually get to the parts that made manga readers call it great, then we just lost a bunch of viewers entirely from poor planning. And I'd call that a failure on the part of the producers.

Please. Why should the producers bend their heads towards the viewers so much. No matter what they do, there are going to be some complaints and people running away. So in the end, they can only plan poorly? There are some people with horribly low fuses that are running away after a single episode. Great. It is the producers' fault.
Exaggeration aside, to put it simply, it is the viewer's fault for having such a short patience and judging the series by one simply episode.
Random Example: OMG, Pokemon just had an episode full of Seiyuu jokes! The future episodes must all be going in this direction. Time to leave...

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Wow, talk about putting words in my mouth. When did I ever say "they should throw in random anything"? (nice to see you still do that...or maybe not so nice) How about something, say not random? Is that hard?
And um, no, if you think Toaru Kagaku no Railgun is simply about Mikoto appearing......then you really aren't seeing much here.....

Well since this series is Toaru Kagaku no Railgun, I'm pretty sure we're expecting them to give us Toaru Kagaku no Railgun. The first episode did; episode 2 didn't.

What is the difference between the first and second episode? The daily life of the characters are shown in both (perhaps in different perspectives). The difference between the two is probably just that in the end of the first, there were some thugs that got defeated by Kuroko and Railgun. So if the first episode gave us "Toaru Kagaku no Railgun" and the second did not, then what was missing is the thug, which can only be called a random person.
Is how I figured it out.
Of course, you could be talking about how the first episode fitted your definition of "Toaru Kagaku no Railgun" and how the second did not, but who knows.

It is simply about focusing on Mikoto. The whole point is to give Mikoto more screen time. It isn't directly following the novel. If there is no Mikoto, this manga doesn't exist.

[Mizuno]

While I enjoy some yuri from time to time, I find it hard to get turned on by a bunch of girls in preteen bodies. There was some comedy but it became dry pretty soon. I hope it's the last of these silly episodes for a little while.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Proto

or development in the sense that the dynamics are elaborated for the viewers in ways or details that hadn't been exposed previously, even if the dynamics themselves do not change. Although I'm loathe to use the term, since I don't really agree with this particular classification, this is what would qualify as a character oriented slice of life episode.

Except there wasn't any elaboration either; we already know Kuroko is crazy for Mikoto and all the other stuff shown this episode. Nothing new.

Uh... well yeah, that's why I said that maybe it's just me. Or maybe you could suggest another way in which it is a litte more obvious in that... well, it's just me. You are free to expect whatever you want though, don't mind me. /me hand waves.

You know the "*sharp breath*" wasn't directed at you, right?
But as I said in above posts, the staff at JC....Staff, said they were making an adaptation of the Railgun manga, which is hardly anything at all like Someday Dreamers, so it's only stands to reason that people would expect Railgun's plot and action over Someday Dreamer's slice-of-life.
And nothing against you at all, but I just don't see how anybody could expect this show to be like Someday Dreamers, at least not before episode 2.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Please. Why should the producers bend their heads towards the viewers so much. No matter what they do, there are going to be some complaints and people running away. So in the end, they can only plan poorly? There are some people with horribly low fuses that are running away after a single episode. Great. It is the producers' fault.

Actually, anime producers have bent their heads over much farther for their viewers before, for example Sunrise with Gundam SEED Destiny when they tossed out their already-chosen main character to bring the more popular main character from the previous series back in the spotlight 40 episodes into the series.

Exaggeration aside, to put it simply, it is the viewer's fault for having such a short patience and judging the series by one simply episode.

One of the extremely rare times serenade and I agree. Screenshots, kids....

What is the difference between the first and second episode? The daily life of the characters are shown in both (perhaps in different perspectives). The difference between the two is probably just that in the end of the first, there were some thugs that got defeated by Kuroko and Railgun. So if the first episode gave us "Toaru Kagaku no Railgun" and the second did not, then what was missing is the thug, which can only be called a random person.
Is how I figured it out.

The difference is that episode 1 was an introduction. That was the point; introduction. Episode 2 lacked any point or meaning entirely.

Of course, you could be talking about how the first episode fitted your definition of "Toaru Kagaku no Railgun" and how the second did not, but who knows.

Mmm, that ol' underlying tone of insult....can't say I missed it.

It is simply about focusing on Mikoto. The whole point is to give Mikoto more screen time. It isn't directly following the novel. If there is no Mikoto, this manga doesn't exist.

Well if you are right (which I so don't think), and the point of the anime is really nothing more than to give us more animated Mikoto and nothing else........well, that's pretty pointless. Which is kind of why spinoffs like these give us more than just showing characters on a TV screen.
Needless to say, I don't think this is the case.

[rg4619]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Idiotic as in "why are you telling us you're making one thing but making something else?" If they want to make something, they shouldn't tell us they're making something else, so if they want to change around Railgun to make the anime more focused on the character interractions, which will make it significantly different than the manga, then they should say so so they don't have manga purists sending them hate mail over it (and we do know they do this, as sad as it is), not to mention which so they don't give people false expectations. I think that'd be pretty easy for them to figure out after all these years of making anime; it's not like JC Staff is a new company, and even if the staff for this particular show were composed entirely of new guys, you'd think somebody would come up with this idea. If you do something like taking a manga and then changing it significantly without warning, the best you'll do is scare off potential viewers. And lo and behold.

Some points:

a) Geneon is promoting this series - not the creative team and not the production studio (the series producers aren't from J.C.Staff either, but I digress).

b) If the director mentioned that the series centers on friendship, doesn't it mean that someone already suggested a potential change in focus? The pre-release seiyuu interviews also promised a large helping of Kuroko's obsessive advances, so this didn't come without warning.

c) Regardless of what anyone says, some people will moan and bitch anyway. In this market, expectations are set once an adaptation is announced.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by rg4619

a) Geneon is promoting this series - not the creative team and not the production studio (the series producers aren't from J.C.Staff either, but I digress).

b) If the director mentioned that the series centers on friendship, doesn't it mean that someone already suggested a potential change in focus? The pre-release seiyuu interviews also promised a large helping of Kuroko's obsessive advances, so this didn't come without warning.

c) Regardless of what anyone says, some people will moan and bitch anyway. In this market, expectations are set once an adaptation is announced.

a) Well, Geneon used to be Pioneer (if I recall correctly), but either way they're not new and the point stands.

b) No it doesn't actually. The manga was centered on the friendship between the characters too, while still having its plot. There were entire chapters devoted to how some of the characters got to be friends and stuff (just no chapters on how Mikoto and Kuroko met, at least not yet). so that doesn't mean anything to the effect of the anime being different. And the manga had a large helping of Kuroko obsessiveness too; that doesn't mean they'll fill whole episodes of the anime with it. But as I said, that wasn't the real problem with episode 2 for me; it's that it was filled with Kuroko obsessiveness and nothing else.

c) Well, yeah. But giving the manga lovers a real heads-up could only have helped. At least the shock of "HEY! This isn't like the manga!" wouldn't be so hard for them. After all, it was things like the anime going different from the manga that got Rurouni Kenshin cancelled before they could actually finish it.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

A fair and put-in-the-most-negative-way-and-form-possible summary, yes.

You want to know the ironic part of all this? The point I've been trying to state all along is this:

The way you state your opinions may imply arrogance and judgement that you may not intend.

Yeah, I know. Like I said, irony.

I've never once been trying to discredit your opinion, the basis for it, or anything else. All I was trying to point out is "you say you're open-minded, but some of your statements seem quick to judge; this appears contradictory". That's really all I was trying to say!

This is why when you kept pointing out "you're missing my point, you're missing my point!", our points were completely missing each other. I wasn't trying to talk about your opinion, I was trying to point to the way you stated your opinion. When you assert that the anime isn't giving us "Railgun". When you assert that part of the content isn't good. When you assert that the producers would be idiots for not delivering something that resembles the manga (and/or telling us ahead of time of this fact). You might say "well, it's obvious that's just my opinion", but you state it as if it's "objectively true fact". (And I hope that you'll please excuse if I've taken more shortcuts in summarizing the arguments; I'm trying to point to the tone of the arguments.)

These sorts of assertions, stated in this manner, seem arrogant and assuming to me, and seem like an indirect put-down of people who might like things the way they are. Not that you were necessarily intending this, but that's how it sounds to me (and possibly some others). That's why I was poking at those kinds of statements in particular. I was never trying to attack your opinion or the basis for it, only trying to demonstrate that the way you stated those opinions doesn't demonstrate the open-mindedness you actually subscribe to.

All of my analogies and illustrations were trying to lead to this point, but you took it literally as if I was trying to tie the analogies back to what you "mean" rather than what you "said". I was literally focused on the words, not the thoughts.

I'll give one more example that I really hope will make sense...

Originally Posted by Shinji103

It has to do with how good the episode was as a product of entertainment, period.

No, it has to do with how much the episode had a capacity to entertain you. Those two statements are completely different, but you're stating them as if they mean the same thing.

I hope to hell that this makes a bit of sense, because otherwise I really don't know how else to explain it. I'm totally supportive of your right to dislike or like some or all of the show for whatever reason you choose. But, to me, you came across a bit too strong in your criticism of the sections you didn't like, as if it was "totally obvious" they had no value at all. Hence my emphasis on "let's keep an open mind", which got converted down to "my opinion isn't welcome". What a mess...

I'm really crossing my fingers here, because really, I'm not trying to attack, demean or anything. If this still didn't work, then I just sincerely apologize, and hope that you'll forgive me.