[Manga] Chapter 360 Discussion

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well how far the Uchiha clan's reputation has spread outside Konoha is debatable. Dediara didn't even recognize Sharingan when he encountered Itachi. He may have not even known what Sharingan was. That's something I was a little surprised at considering he was already an accomplished ninja at that time. The Rock nin in the Kakashi Gaiden also seemed to be clueless about Sharingan (they notice it, but don't ever call it by name) and that was at a time when the Rock village was at war with Konoha. Maybe the Uchiha aren't infamous in every village.

Deidara is one of the younger ones. It is not a surprise for him to not have seen Sharingan, hence not recognizing it.

You mentioned the last war. During that war, consider the reputation of Yondaime. Even though, seeing his technique would mean not surviving it, there were many who were aware of his ability. That should also be true for Uchiha. But, depending on the level of inclusion of Uchihas during that war, the words may not have spread a lot.

If you consider the past, when Uchiha most probably lived in a more independent manner, it is possible the Uchiha clan in the past had more or less similar level of reputation. So, as long as there were ninjas who were fighting Uchihas, that reputation should have reached a lot of people in the past. And, if you assume the Uchihas have an history close to thousands of years (I mention that because the mutation of Byagukan into Sharingan should have a pretty long history), the number that noticed Sharingan, spread the words about it, and allowed other people to develop counters, shouldn't be negligible. If there are a few people who worked on that during each generation, that number could be as high as thousands. And, any achievement like that should have been taught to the younger generations, hence, the words should have reached the current times. But, we seem to have nothing on that. For me, that is a bit strange.

In that case, the question wouldn't be how Gaara was flying using wood, but how he had somehow gained the ability to control wood (training with Yamato? ). But with Sasuke we know exactly how he gained his ability to manipulate snakes so it is within reason to accept he could (temporarily) use them to replace and function as limbs.

Isn't the case with those snakes similar? Sasuke needs to work on the ability to control all those snakes, int he right way to make them work like the original wing he has, the wing he has not developed himself. I can still understand if he trained on that before. But, I doubt that is the case. And, within a matter of second, gaining such ability does not seem ok, for me.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

We don't know which one is more powerful. The main problem in Oro's case, is that Oro decided to fight Sharingan in the genjutsu world he created. Maybe, those two techniques are around the same level in terms of strength, but, being in the genjutsu world made us perceive differently. At the end, both are created by the normal sharingan.

The one Deidara encounters is the regular Sharingan Genjutsu, no particular hype made about it (well no more than the usual Sharingan hype).
The one with Naruto was aknowledged by the Kyubi who then compared Sasuke to some unknown past Uchiha... Obviously not the regular Uchiha-joe thing.
Both Oro and Kabuto believed the ritual would resist pretty much anything and truth be told the Sharingan Genjutsu previously used by Itachi and then by Sasuke had absolutely no effect whatsoever this time... Until Sasuke did something completely new that Oro deemed as absolutely impossible. Again obviously not your regular Sharingan Genjutsu.

In fact if the trend follows be ready to see Deidara watching in disbelief a kind of Doujutsu that shouldn't work on him and yet does (ok I also hope not).

In Sasuke's case, we are given one thing (the wing). We accept that it works, no questioning there. Next, the things are replaced and the function is still the same. In such cases, it is easy to find possible problems. It is like, Gaara who is capable of flying sand switches to wood and make it fly immediately, as if it is sand.

Well technically there was much questionning here, many people were saying he couldn't fly.
And again, the wing isn't completely replaced by snake. You could say I'm trying to rationalize the whole thing with the muscles part remaining + partial snakes coming out of his body (so it's not just a summon btw,) and essentially you would be right, but I just don't see that as more impossible than other already introduced events. Beside now who could complain if Naruto grows big frog feet in his back and start flapping them to fly?
Hmmm thinking a little more about it I would rather not finally

That is why I said if she can recognize that a foreign substance has entered her body. As a medic nin, I see this as a possibility, especially if you consider it as some kind of poison. It is not like the foreign substances invading your body would be welcomed with no reaction.
Unless that person decides to hide himself somewhere safe with no entry point for the nano-particles after seeing that huge thing that would explode. Anyway, we are assuming not escaping is the case. And, in that case, I doubt the count of particles in the body would be a big deal, especially if the technique to suppress those foreign particles involves a whole body suppression process (more like a much simpler version of what Tsunade did to heal herself). And, in that case, countering in a few seconds is still a possibility.

Originally Posted by othafa

@Hunter
If Tsunade was able to regenerate her entire body over the course of a few seconds, it is not out of the realm of possibility that a medical technique can exist to purge the body of all foreign substances just as quickly. As far as detecting it goes, that all depends on the individual's chakra awareness (its been seen at varying levels in anyone from Kakashi to Ino) and how in-tune they are with their own body's behavior. I wouldn't discount anything that quickly in the Naruto universe.

You misunderstand me, I'm ready to take almost anything as granted because I do not expect any kind of logic in the first place.
And I can easily see Tsunade's body instantaneously oozing the countless bombs out of her body on a simple snap of her finger simply because she is the best medic-nin around. Like I said there are always many way to counter anything, I'm just saying this is a very hard one.

Even if the target hide simewhere 100% safe he still do not know what happened and he will eventually come out to resume the fight whereas the bombs are still waiting there.
C4 isn't so powerful because it's a one hit kill or because it's one of the biggest AOE of the show. Like the MS jutsu it's that powerful because it's very hard to see it coming before it's too late.

[Alca]

Im sorry but Deidera is totally the ProWnage!!!!!!

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The one Deidara encounters is the regular Sharingan Genjutsu, no particular hype made about it (well no more than the usual Sharingan hype).
The one with Naruto was aknowledged by the Kyubi who then compared Sasuke to some unknown past Uchiha... Obviously not the regular Uchiha-joe thing.
Both Oro and Kabuto believed the ritual would resist pretty much anything and truth be told the Sharingan Genjutsu previously used by Itachi and then by Sasuke had absolutely no effect whatsoever this time... Until Sasuke did something completely new that Oro deemed as absolutely impossible. Again obviously not your regular Sharingan Genjutsu.

(Ah, this painful sharingan, origin of many conflicts) I guess we are separated on the basis. I still see what Sasuke showed at those time as the regular Sharingan (that is one of the reasons I didn't like that upgrade). At first, I thought that the eye changed while he was doing that, but, I believe, you told me that is not the case. So, it is just another way to use the regular sharingan. Because of that, I consider their strengths at similar level, only the way they are used differs.

In fact if the trend follows be ready to see Deidara watching in disbelief a kind of Doujutsu that shouldn't work on him and yet does (ok I also hope not).

Regardless of the pain that scenario will cause for me, I can definitely see that to be happening. I can at least consider Sasuke shifting from type I effect to type X effect of sharingan during that process (with repeating comments like, "peh, not this one, what about that...").

Beside now who could complain if Naruto grows big frog feet in his back and start flapping them to fly? Hmmm thinking a little more about it I would rather not finally

I don't think there is any jutsu suggesting that (we saw the snakes before). So, you should be comfortable for the time being. But, now that I think about it, maybe Jiraiya's hair lengthening jutsu can be used to increase the hair in the body to make them operate like wings. As I said before, this kind of thing opening the door to other easy flying possibilities is not something to enjoy.

C4 isn't so powerful because it's a one hit kill or because it's one of the biggest AOE of the show. Like the MS jutsu it's that powerful because it's very hard to see it coming before it's too late.

When the opponent does not see it coming (such as Deidara using it before using his other bombs), you are right, it is very difficult to avoid. Though, if avoiding is possible (i.e., if the user knows techniques to counter it somehow, regardless of the delay it requires), there is still the possibility of avoiding. Anyway, that doesn't prevent us appreciating the idea behind Deidara's jutsu and admitting its strength.

[othafa]

@hunter
Ok, I understand your perspective now.

However, my opinion is that barring some kind of doujutsu, medic nin are the best suited to counter that kind of ninjutsu, since they must be extremely well in tuned with their own physiology...
You're right though...C4 rocks my socks

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

(Ah, this painful sharingan, origin of many conflicts) I guess we are separated on the basis. I still see what Sasuke showed at those time as the regular Sharingan (that is one of the reasons I didn't like that upgrade). At first, I thought that the eye changed while he was doing that, but, I believe, you told me that is not the case. So, it is just another way to use the regular sharingan. Because of that, I consider their strengths at similar level, only the way they are used differs.

It is the regular Sharingan as it isn't the MS but it doesn't mean it's an usual and easy use.
It would be like saying everything Neji does with his regular Byakugan is the usual for the Hyuga-joe because it's not some new Byakugan.
Or to extend further the comparison that Lee's speed is the usual because everyone have legs.

What Sasuke did in these both case was made very obvious as something extraordinary even as far as the Sharingan goes whereas these 2 Genjutsu against Deidara were most definitively not (Itachi was though, the double page where he's seen standing contains probably more packed hype than the last 15 chapters for Sasuke as far as symbolism goes).

Regardless of the pain that scenario will cause for me, I can definitely see that to be happening. I can at least consider Sasuke shifting from type I effect to type X effect of sharingan during that process (with repeating comments like, "peh, not this one, what about that...").

Yeah well at the end of the day even if Sasuke has various skills he's a Uchiha and a Sharingan user and it's to be expected the Sharingan will be what he will use to get out of dire situation.
I would prefer some new Lightning /snake jutsu but the chance that Sasuke is using a double Genjutsu that even Deidara with all his training couldn't see through is rather high.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Alca

Im sorry but Deidera is totally the ProWnage!!!!!!

Spoiler for :

After seeing a spoiler that has been said to be confirm i lol'd at you

btw Hunter i've seen some spoiler pic can you or someone make Ch.361 thread please

[Icecolduchiha]

When I was trying to disprove this kid about his idea that tobi was obito, I stumbled across something that hinted that he was right. Not that HE made any vaild points but i had never questioned tobi's existence in the series and so I did and found o similiarities in the myth's that could possibly lead me to think so but then again i didn't find enough to state it as my opinion

Spoiler for obito tobi sasuke deidra:

From what I gathered

similiarities in name - t-obi, obi-to... only missing an O

similiarities in myth -

obito was last seen trapped in a cave.
This could be related to the story of amaterasu ( an MS uchiha tech) who retreated to a cave. Then was brought out by the "eight millon kami's" which I relate to AK ( most of you know how)

susanowa relates to sasuke, his slaying of orchi and his possession of the snake sword go hand in hand with the myth's on susanowa.

Amaterasu is said to have retreated because susanowa had slain someone dear to him, which discribes the current situation between sasuke and diedra ( likely hood sasuke will crush him. ahhh nice )

Susanowa is god of winds storms and snakes, which sasuke also show's great similaries 2, a being of evil and revenge. He angered the "eight million" dieties, the same beings which brought amaterasu out of the cave. If we we're going to give the ak the title representing them due to the fact that they are a council consisting of the most powerful ninja's in the series we can say that the ak dislike sasuke as well as that they released obito from the cave.

Itachi the other uchiha- That would leave me to discribe itachi as Tsuki-yomi whom is said to have risen up the ladder of heaven as soon as he was born discribing itachi in the ways of his skill. Of how he rose to the tops of the shinobi rankes at a very young age.

Also said that amaterasu and Tsuki-yomi are never to look at each other's faces, which could discribe why tobi has no face in the manga

I have plenty of more support but those are just a few that i came up with recently. Hopefully I get proven wrong with this one ( which doesn't really hold any ground any way) Because I came across something more interesting and more likely.

If sasuke does not kill diedra or kills tobi then this theory will go to shit( which it isn't to far from anyway) and I will be happy. I just researched it to the request of another person... oh yea i almost forgot the word and name obito, has some relation to orbit I believe which could be streched and related to the sun which amaterasu was the god of and oh yea Im sure you all know that 2 of the names said above are also MS tech's used by the uchiha.... the similarities are quite amazing, the writer truely put some work into this. Like the gama sennin in the myth's who was seen traveling with a toad, could change into snakes as well as make himself look more youth fool. The three different traits of the manga's three legendary sannin... there are just sooooooooooo many similarities that actually discribe what has happened so far. Also from what I read so far, I believe that they're is a possiblity that AK is trying to open up the demon gate but thats a story for another thread.

Im not sticking to this theory at all, but its just what I can up with when I researched the idea among other things.

[XYKE]

I think that they arnt showing the gaiden yet(in the anime) because they are saving it for the moment of when kakashi finds out that Tobi is Obito.

Anyway we cant know for sure untill Tobi's backstory gets revealed.