News Stories

[Der Langrisser]

At least 15 dead in Israeli shelling of Gaza school- Health Ministry

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FT06I20140724

Shelling a UN-run school isn't the smartest idea the IDF ever had.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Der Langrisser

At least 15 dead in Israeli shelling of Gaza school- Health Ministry

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FT06I20140724

Shelling a UN-run school isn't the smartest idea the IDF ever had.

Considering the fact that Hamas build their stuff under hospital, schools and homes, it is not a wonder that the IDF would shell it.

[maplehurry]

Thought Israel would give out advanced warning before the attack so people can escape, as long as the objective wasn't trying to kill insurgents there.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Thought Israel would give out advanced warning before the attack so people can escape, as long as the objective was trying to kill insurgents there.

Fixed.

Well there are people who after knocking on the roof, they still run into the house to martyr themselves.

And your typical population in other countries whine about human rights when this kind of things happen. Genius.

[LoveYouSaber]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Fixed.

Well there are people who after knocking on the roof, they still run into the house to martyr themselves.

And your typical population in other countries whine about human rights when this kind of things happen. Genius.

Wait, are you suggesting that the dead children tried to become martyrs?

[ninryu]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Thought Israel would give out advanced warning before the attack so people can escape, as long as the objective wasn't trying to kill insurgents there.

They did. They always do. Hamas is trying to force civilians to stay and be their meat shield so they can send pretty photos to news agencies around the world. That's how they work.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

Wait, are you suggesting that the dead children tried to become martyrs?

If your idea of "suggestion" includes being influenced/forced by extremist elements that "sacrificing yourself in the name of Allah against the Jewish Dijjal is a noble act", then yes.

Also, the kids do not have a choice if the staff, UN or not, in that hospital refused to warn the children about knocks on the door or if the hospital is in the area of lethal ordinance. The naive ones are always the real losers in such conflicts.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by ninryu

They did. They always do. Hamas is trying to force civilians to stay and be their meat shield so they can send pretty photos to news agencies around the world. That's how they work.

Not in this case through, with UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees (Unrwa), said a safe corridor to leave the area was negotiated by the UN staffs with Israel before the incident happened. But was never granted by the Israel before the assault.

And Israeli army already had been formally given the co-ordinates of the shelter in Beit Hanoun. SO it's not liek it's an accident either

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Not in this case through, with UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees (Unrwa), said a safe corridor to leave the area was negotiated by the UN staffs with Israel before the incident happened. But was never granted by the Israel before the assault.

Israel must have been really pissed not to negotiate with the UN as they may have intelligence that Hamas elements may have use the corridor to flee.

So much for the sayings of "blind fury" and "an eye for an eye" - after 2000 years of war, everyone involved in that conflict is indeed blind.

[LoveYouSaber]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

If your idea of "suggestion" includes being influenced/forced by extremist elements that "sacrificing yourself in the name of Allah against the Jewish Dijjal is a noble act", then yes.

Also, the kids do not have a choice if the staff, UN or not, in that hospital refused to warn the children about knocks on the door or if the hospital is in the area of lethal ordinance. The naive ones are always the real losers in such conflicts.

Ok, when you put it this way, I understand your earlier point. But this was a UN-run school right? I earnestly hope the curriculum isn't influenced by extremist elements.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by LoveYouSaber

Ok, when you put it this way, I understand your earlier point. But this was a UN-run school right? I earnestly hope the curriculum isn't influenced by extremist elements.

No, but the problem with UN-run schools is that they don't have peacekeepers who would deny extremist parents from following their child in there, or extremists from hanging around the area of the school as a shelter.

Even the smallest 60mm mortar has a blast radius of 25m. Israel must have been really been as enraged as an angry bull to hit UN mandated buildings just to take out insurgents.

Though it could have been a misfire or bad coordinates (happens in artillery attacks).

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

No, but the problem with UN-run schools is that they don't have peacekeepers who would deny extremist parents from following their child in there, or extremists from hanging around the area of the school as a shelter.

Even the smallest 60mm mortar has a blast radius of 25m. Israel must have been really been as enraged as an angry bull to hit UN mandated buildings just to take out insurgents.

Though it could have been a misfire or bad coordinates (happens in artillery attacks).

But then it can be an excuse for everything.

Israel, and just come in your house in Singapore(?), knock off your TV, murder your family, burn off the building. Then stated that the file you accidentally download could potentially be Hamas spy data on Israeli strategical war plan. And it could still fly pass.


But please, I do understand Israel dilemma on the issue. But you also know how there are two lines on morality that people can take to judge Israel action. The ultilitarianism will half way on the judgement. Maybe what Israel did was for a greater good. Maybe it will cause more harm than not...etc... But those with deontological ethic will say Israel to be in the wrong every time. "We have 3 dead teachers , 12 dead children, and up to 200 wounded. No excuses, Israel was in the wrong".

So why following up a plan that by the end of it, more than half people in the world will judge it to be wrong anyway? You know if Hamas store rockets inside the school instead of their grandpa house. It's so that you will shell it, and they can gain more support, material, manpower from outcry elsewhere . But then you do it anyway..

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

But then it can be an excuse for everything.

Israel, and just come in your house in Singapore(?), knock off your TV, murder your family, burn off the building. Then stated that the file you accidentally download could potentially be Hamas spy data on Israeli strategical war plan. And it could still fly pass.


But please, I do understand Israel dilemma on the issue. But you also know how there are two lines on morality that people can take to judge Israel action. The ultilitarianism will half way on the judgement. Maybe what Israel did was for a greater good. Maybe it will cause more harm than not...etc... But those with deontological ethic will say Israel to be in the wrong every time. "We have 3 dead teachers , 12 dead children, and up to 200 wounded. No excuses, Israel was in the wrong".

So why following up a plan that by the end of it, more than half people in the world will judge it to be wrong anyway? You know if Hamas store rockets inside the school instead of their grandpa house. It's so that you will shell it, and they can gain more support, material, manpower from outcry elsewhere . But then you do it anyway..

Hence why I termed it as blind fury. There is little or misguided rationale for the bombing of the school - I do suspect it as the Highway of Death kind of bombing.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Hence why I termed it as blind fury. There is little or misguided rationale for the bombing of the school - I do suspect it as the Highway of Death kind of bombing.

In short, they committed a war crime.

So when are we arresting Benjamin Netanyahu for crimes against humanity again?

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

In short, they committed a war crime.

That depends on what they were trying to take out there. Since there's so many casualties, the objective must be something really important, or the response would be considered disproportionate.

From what I have heard from cbc, Israel had warned UN there to get people out of the school area 3 days ago, but then the strikes hit when people were getting on buses. Terrible timing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-co...g-15-1.2716414

Kamel al-Kafarne, who was in the school, said that the UN was putting people on buses when three tank shells hit.

The UN said officials were trying to get everyone out of the school when it was hit. Agency spokesman Chris Gunness said the UN had asked the Israeli military for a lull in fighting to allow for the school's evacuation but did not hear back.

[Skane]

The response is disproportionate. Hamas' hands are not exactly stain-free either, but the casualties is pretty lop-sided. Israel has the resources and capabilities to do stealth incursions to surgically strike down their aggressors, but they choose to just burn/bomb/destroy/etc... the whole neighbourhood, innocents be damned.

Hamas will never run out of recruits if all they need to do is set off a few pipe bombs to trigger a massacre. The way Israel is doing it, they are showing that they can't be arsed to differentiate between civilians and military targets, and that they see them as all the same.

Even the USA tries to be surgical in their anti-terrorist missions. Imagine what would happen if they had glassed the neighbourhood that Osama bin Laden had been hiding in, instead of sending in a covert team.

It's almost as though the Israeli government doesn't want peace either.

Natch.

[AnimeFan188]

Air Algerie flight AH5017: 'Wreckage spotted' in Sahara desert:

"The wreckage of an Air Algerie passenger plane which disappeared off the radar
over Mali, West Africa on Thursday, has been found in the country's desert."

"It is not yet known how many casualties there are. Officials have not issued any
further details.

The plane is operated by Air Algerie and chartered from Spanish airline Swiftair, who
said 110 passengers and six members of crew are on board the MD83 aircraft. It can
carry up to 167 people."

See:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-30457399.html


Another airliner goes down. Too early to tell if foul play was involved though.

[AnimeFan188]

Brokedown premise: Drone caught smuggling cell phones into Thai prison:

"The Bangkok Post reports that guards at the Khao Bin Prison in Thailand took
possession of what appears to be a DJI Phantom drone laden with cell phones and
accessories. The drone was snagged on a tree limb inside the prison compound.

Taped to the drone were two Nokia cell phones, four SIM cards, a pair of Bluetooth
devices, and headphones. Also attached to the aircraft was what appeared to be a
system on a board—about the size of a Raspberry Pi computer. The gear was
concealed in a plastic bottle.

In addition to its illicit cargo, the quadcopter was equipped with a GoPro video
camera and a Wi-Fi signal range extender to allow the drone to be remote-
controlled from a greater distance, based on analysis of the photos published by the
Post."

See:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...o-thai-prison/

[Ridwan]

Originally Posted by Skane

The response is disproportionate. Hamas' hands are not exactly stain-free either, but the casualties is pretty lop-sided. Israel has the resources and capabilities to do stealth incursions to surgically strike down their aggressors, but they choose to just burn/bomb/destroy/etc... the whole neighbourhood, innocents be damned.

Hamas will never run out of recruits if all they need to do is set off a few pipe bombs to trigger a massacre. The way Israel is doing it, they are showing that they can't be arsed to differentiate between civilians and military targets, and that they see them as all the same.

Even the USA tries to be surgical in their anti-terrorist missions. Imagine what would happen if they had glassed the neighbourhood that Osama bin Laden had been hiding in, instead of sending in a covert team.

It's almost as though the Israeli government doesn't want peace either.

Natch.

The ones steering the course of Israeli politics certainly don't.

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Ridwan

The ones steering the course of Israeli politics certainly don't.

As I mentioned before, Netanyahu's coalition is too tilted towards hard-right wingers. During the 2012 Gaza assault, there was already huge pressure on him to launch a ground invasion. Too bad this time around the Gazan's don't have an ally in Egypt to mediate things and Netanyahu finally gave in to a ground assault.