US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I wouldn't be surprised if Romney's one was from a shop started by Bain Capital... at the expence of some US jobs .

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

It is so ironic that it is a pin with the Romney campaigns slogan "Believe in America" and then on the flip side it says "Made in China".

[GDB]

Romney says Obama says things that aren't true in debates.

Regardless of whether this is the case or not, is Romney really one to call another out on this? The man hasn't told the truth in months.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Unfortunately the picture isn't real. And the person who first publicised it has apologised for being fooled by a photoshop.

Romney needs to lose, yes. But he can't lose under false pretences. Obama needs to be on the side of truth, even if it aids his opponent.

[aohige]

I object at the insinuation.

Buying cheap Chinese manufactured product is perfectly American thing to do.

(this post was not in anyway funded by Wal-mart)

[Neki Ecko]

So in other words, Romney/Obama is just part 2 of Bush Sr/Clinton battle but roles are reverse right now.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

So in other words, Romney/Obama is just part 2 of Bush Sr/Clinton battle but roles are reverse right now.

Bush Senior and Clinton each believed in something.

As I said before, I would have preferred Santorum to be running as GOP candidate. Not because I like him, but because he is sincere in his extremist views.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Vexx

An anti-intellectual, anti-other, wrapped-in a-flag-waving-a-holy-book manipulation of the under-educated, under-informed, misinformed electorate. A regularly revisioned history. Eternal war. No option for the youth except the military. A two-tiered society with an extreme gulf in options and accessibility to resources.

That's what half the country seems to want. When you ask them to detail why you don't get rational or reasoned answers.

A bunch of them will bring it down to the matters of gay marriage and abortion. You'll get a bunch of them saying things like "Because we don't want a 'homosexual lover' and a 'baby killer' for a president!".

I've even seen someone on camera call Obama that (Charles Worley, the preacher who said we should pen up gays and let them die out...).

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

A bunch of them will bring it down to the matters of gay marriage and abortion. You'll get a bunch of them saying things like "Because we don't want a 'homosexual lover' and a 'baby killer' for a president!".

I've even seen someone on camera call Obama that (Charles Worley, the preacher who said we should pen up gays and let them die out...).

I can vouch that I've heard people (acquaintances, relatives) use those reasons (as well blunt racist rationale "we just can't have a Black House"). The pro-fetus cult (the very same people rarely give a shit about them after they're born, then its punishment for having had sex or some equally tortured illogic) is no more rational than the idiots storming embassy walls over being mooned by other idiots.

[Neki Ecko]

Okay quick question for everybody

How much do you think middle income (class) should be?

Now here is Mitt Romney answer

Spoiler for Mitt's Amount:

'Middle-income' is $200K to $250K and less

Now I wonder, most of us dont even make that amount, heck I dont even make a ten percent of that amount. I am getting really worried today.

[Mr. DJ]

I would consider that upper middle class o.O

[aohige]

No way is that middle class.

My image of middle is my parents and their neighbhorhood.
Ph.D, both academically steller achievers, have a good house and gets by.
But by no means are they rich. Buying a car is still rough on their finance, and always finding ways to save few bucks here and there.
I would guess their income to be right around half of that.

Also there seems to be a massive divide between "upper-middle" and "high (rich)".

[DonQuigleone]

That's not upper middle class. Upper middle class is 80k-150k. Lower middle class is 50k-100k. Though the delineation between middle class and working class is as much about the type of work you do as the income you make.

EG my mom working a working class job on the assembly lines of GM made more money then my father working what can only be defined as an upper middle class job as a university professor of Mathematics (though those were in the days when GM had obscenely and unsustainably high wages).

If you're making more then 150k, you're really edging into upper class territory. Though again, the distinction between middle class and upper class is as much about how you make your money.

Basically:
Working class: makes money through direct, often skilled, manual labour. Think Farmer, factory worker, repairman. Today might also includes people in "services" (IE callcenter operators, janitors, people who serve food at movie theaters...)
Lower Middle Class: People who make money through working more menial but skilled brainwork, but doesn't require manual labour, eg Clerks, bank tellers. Also might include small business owners
Upper Middle Class: People who work in highly skilled professions, that are again largely dependent on brainwork. Professors, senior managers, Lawyers, Doctors etc. Also might include Small and medium sized business owners
Upper Class: People who make money not through labour, but through ownership of property. IE the Mitt Romneys of this world.

[Destined_Fate]

Romney knows how to make money but I question if he can really revive the economy since he values profits so much. Right now it's cheaper to hide a lot of your money and profits overseas and outsource to places like China for work which has contributed greatly to the shift of jobs here to China. Which is why I agree with Obama that America must adapt and create and train for new jobs that aren't so easily available overseas and are in high demand.

Than again I'm' a Medical Assistant so yeah.... I'm one of those targeted by his push for certain new job creation and training. However that reminds me, aren't we dealing with a Doctor shortage too?

Originally Posted by GDB

Romney says Obama says things that aren't true in debates.

Regardless of whether this is the case or not, is Romney really one to call another out on this? The man hasn't told the truth in months.

That's just plain hilarious, Romney isn't one to talk either since both sides stretch the truth all the time. Don't even get started on how many times Romney has changed his story or kept his life as secret as possible from the public.

[Vexx]

It depends on whether you mean "average" or "median"... but recognize this. Even if you make $200K, $400K and most of that income is from actual work rather than investing ... you're still a peasant compared to the sheer number of zeros these CEOs, plutocrats, and ultra-wealthy pull in.

Lets say you make $250K/yr working ... the average CEO in the S&P500 pulls in $13million a year (note the word "average"). That means you are making about 2% of what the *average* CEO makes. You're not only not in the country club, but they can't even tell the difference between you and the guy making $40K a year.

[Urzu 7]

Found this on another forum:

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/blog...much_acco.html

Part of the article:

It was 2004, after the Supreme Judicial Court had cleared the way for same-sex couples to obtain marriage licenses in Massachusetts. Governor Mitt Romney remained a roadblock, endorsing a constitutional amendment that would ban it.

Julie Goodridge and other plaintiffs in the landmark case had written a letter to the governor, asking for a meeting. He ignored it, so they staged a press conference at his office to read the letter to the media. That, finally, got them through his door. Once inside, they were shocked.

For about 20 frustrating minutes, say those in attendance who Boston Spirit interviewed recently, they shared their stories, pled their case, and tried to explain how equal marriage would protect them and their families. Romney sat stone-faced and almost entirely silent.

“Is there anything else?” Romney asked when they finished. With that, the meeting was over.

“It was like talking to a robot. No expression, no feeling,” recalls David Wilson, one of the plaintiffs in the case who met with Romney that day. “People were sharing touching stories, stories where you’d expect recognition in the other person’s face that they at least hear what you’re saying — that there’s empathy. He didn’t even shake his head. He was completely blank.”

Occasionally Romney would say something.

“I didn’t know you had families,” remarked Romney to the group, according to Wilson.
The offhanded remark underscored that Romney, the governor of the first state prepared to grant same-sex marriage, hadn’t taken the time to look at what the landmark case was really about. By this point the plaintiff’s stories had been widely covered by national media — in particular, Julie Goodridge’s heartrending tale of how her then-partner, Hillary, was denied hospital visitation following the precarious birth of daughter Annie. It was the ignorance of these facts — and Romney’s inaccurate, insensitive answer to her parting question, that pushed Julie Goodridge to her breaking point.

“I looked him in the eye as we were leaving,” recalls Goodridge. “And I said, ‘Governor Romney, tell me — what would you suggest I say to my 8 year-old daughter about why her mommy and her ma can’t get married because you, the governor of her state, are going to block our marriage?’”

His response, according to Goodridge: “I don’t really care what you tell your adopted daughter. Why don’t you just tell her the same thing you’ve been telling her the last eight years.”

Romney’s retort enraged a speechless Goodridge; he didn’t care, and by referring to her biological daughter as “adopted,” it was clear he hadn’t even been listening. By the time she was back in the hallway, she was reduced to tears.

I think Romney would make a splendid president. He really knows how to relate to people. He is such a warm and empathetic soul. /through the roof sarcasm

[Vexx]

I used to have the source link for that... it pretty much scores Romney as an empty suit with no empathy at all for anyone outside his tiny world bubble of privilege.

I look at him and I look at the highly qualified guy who dropped out of the primaries so early (Huntsman) and I can only conclude the GOP is utterly broken, driven by plutocrats and zealots so disconnected from reality they believe the shit they're spewing. (sorry for the profanity there)

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I used to have the source link for that... it pretty much scores Romney as an empty suit with no empathy at all for anyone outside his tiny world bubble of privilege.

I look at him and I look at the highly qualified guy who dropped out of the primaries so early (Huntsman) and I can only conclude the GOP is utterly broken, driven by plutocrats and zealots so disconnected from reality they believe the shit they're spewing. (sorry for the profanity there)

Profanity is A-Ok when talking about the GOP.

The GOP is broken. They are hastily marching towards self destruction. The GOP could come crashing down and then they'd have to try to rebuild from there. Hopefully what they rebuild is far better than the horrible mess that they are now. You figure they would. They wouldn't want to build up the same mess of a party after a self destruction.

What is a plutocrat. I have an idea, but I'm not entirely sure who these plutocrats are that you mention.

[Sumeragi]

Those who rule by wealth or the power provided by wealth.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I look at him and I look at the highly qualified guy who dropped out of the primaries so early (Huntsman) and I can only conclude the GOP is utterly broken, driven by plutocrats and zealots so disconnected from reality they believe the shit they're spewing. (sorry for the profanity there)

There was some possible candidates than were thought to be even better potential but they didn't try for this time. Of course many thought than it would be a better idea to try for 2016.

As for Huntsman he might be qualified but wasn't he condidered to be too much of a moderate... or was it of a realist .