Madoka Magica - Character Discussion - Miki Sayaka

[Snork]

That's what I meant by "worst case scenarios". It's the plot to blame, not Hitomi or Kyousuke.
Although that doesn't prevent people from looking at these two sceptically. 24 hours is kinda short, no matter how you look at it. But we'll never know if a longer term would make any difference...

[CrimsonSunshine]

No, no, no. I don't care how many people defend the two, or to what extent. I don't care who gives valid points to their innocence, who's right, or who's wrong. In my mind, I will always see Hitomi and Kyosuke as villains who fueled Sayaka's depression. Anyone can argue on why they are not at fault, but it won't change my perspective. It is a matter of opinion, afterall...

Hitomi was not aware of her situation, but wasn't it blatantly obvious Sayaka was depressed? And for the record, I disliked Hitomi since her first appearance, so I do admit to being biased here. She was first introduced as a beautiful girl who receives love letters everyday, and in her few appearances, she annoyed me with her ditsy and typical attitude. Besides, if two girls like the same boy, I think neither should confess... Even if she is innocent, looking through Sayaka's eyes, I would make her out to be the most guilty person on earth. Rather she is or isn't, it comes down to Sayaka's point of view.

And Kyosuke goes without saying. I actually like his character design, but his tantrum in the hospital just made him seem like a rotten brat. Putting myself in his shoes, I realized it could be understandable had Sayaka been a mere classmate or someone else with a distant relationship to him, but this was the girl who faithfully came to visit him everyday, his childhood friend, who did everything for him! Then, he doesn't even seem to acknowledge her at school... Am I the only one capable of really looking through Sayaka's view? He wouldn't have to rush to her, but honestly, at least find time to acknowledge her existence.

Arguing with the things I've said will do no good since it is merely my perspective. I'm not declaring I am right, but I do believe I am empathizing with Sayaka the most, which is why I hold such opinions...

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by CrimsonSunshine

No, no, no. I don't care how many people defend the two, or to what extent. I don't care who gives valid points to their innocence, who's right, or who's wrong. In my mind, I will always see Hitomi and Kyosuke as villains who fueled Sayaka's depression. Anyone can argue on why they are not at fault, but it won't change my perspective. It is a matter of opinion, afterall...

Hitomi was not aware of her situation, but wasn't it blatantly obvious Sayaka was depressed? And for the record, I disliked Hitomi since her first appearance, so I do admit to being biased here. She was first introduced as a beautiful girl who receives love letters everyday, and in her few appearances, she annoyed me with her ditsy and typical attitude. Besides, if two girls like the same boy, I think neither should confess... Even if she is innocent, looking through Sayaka's eyes, I would make her out to be the most guilty person on earth. Rather she is or isn't, it comes down to Sayaka's point of view.

And Kyosuke goes without saying. I actually like his character design, but his tantrum in the hospital just made him seem like a rotten brat. Putting myself in his shoes, I realized it could be understandable had Sayaka been a mere classmate or someone else with a distant relationship to him, but this was the girl who faithfully came to visit him everyday, his childhood friend, who did everything for him! Then, he doesn't even seem to acknowledge her at school... Am I the only one capable of really looking through Sayaka's view? He wouldn't have to rush to her, but honestly, at least find time to acknowledge her existence.

Arguing with the things I've said will do no good since it is merely my perspective. I'm not declaring I am right, but I do believe I am empathizing with Sayaka the most, which is why I hold such opinions...

=/ I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

So you have an opinion; great. So you're willing to stick to that opinion no matter what; okay. But if that's the case, why go to such lengths to bash them? I disagree almost wholeheartedly on the extremity to which you're bashing them, but since you've emphatically stated that you won't be convinced otherwise, there's no point picking your post apart to point out our differences.

Really, what's the point?

[CrimsonSunshine]

Originally Posted by Akashin

=/ I don't see what point you're trying to make here.

So you have an opinion; great. So you're willing to stick to that opinion no matter what; okay. But if that's the case, why go to such lengths to bash them? I disagree almost wholeheartedly on the extremity to which you're bashing them, but since you've emphatically stated that you won't be convinced otherwise, there's no point picking your post apart to point out our differences.

Really, what's the point?

Maybe I should have phrased it differently? Disagreeing or debating the matter is fine. People debate matters that are opinions all the time. I just don't want to be flamed for sharing my opinion, which differs from everyone else's. I'm not wrong...but not right, either.

[Used Can]

Some new interviews have surfaced, and a question about why Kamijou didn't pay attention to Sayaka was made. The answer was that he never saw her as a woman, but just as a friend. The reason why he never contacted her when he got released from the hospital, even though he was grateful for the celebration after his hand got healed, was because of things happening too fast. In addition, the reason he didn't approach her in school was because he had a lot of girls jumping on him, and he had to deal with them and thus had no time to approach Sayaka.

[CrimsonSunshine]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Some new interviews have surfaced, and a question about why Kamijou didn't pay attention to Sayaka was made. The answer was that he never saw her as a woman, but just as a friend. The reason why he never contacted her when he got released from the hospital, even though he was grateful for the celebration after his hand got healed, was because of things happening too fast. In addition, the reason he didn't approach her in school was because he had a lot of girls jumping on him, and he had to deal with them and thus had no time to approach Sayaka.

I see. It's sad that he doesn't see her as a woman...
He prefers feminine girls, I suppose...Poor poor Sayaka...
I'm a girl, but personally, I'd take Sayaka over Hitomi anyday.
What a strange thing for me to say...

[Snork]

Some new interviews have surfaced, and a question about why Kamijou didn't pay attention to Sayaka was made. The answer was that he never saw her as a woman, but just as a friend.

Somehow I can't help suspecting that Sayaka realized it subconsciously. A big part of the reason why she couldn't confess easily, the fear of being turned down. The Soul Gem issue lowered the chances even more in her eyes, but even before that, she was really shy about it. Confessing to your childhood friend is always tough, since many see it as risking the already established bond for another one that may or may not play out. Perhaps she hoped that someday, somehow Kyousuke would make the first step, at least that they'd get naturally closer with time... Even while pondering a possible wish, she soberly questioned herself whether she really wanted just to help him or, as Mami had warned, see him obliged to her. And in the end, she couldn't get over her status as a magical girl having virtually ruined her private life. That, of course, was also a general problem for her. Can't embrace Kamijou with this body? She might have as well been pondering whether she could embrace ANYONE with this body, i.e. whether she'd ever have any private life at all. And Kyousuke's obliviousness didn't help for sure. No wonder her witch barrier had the "Look at me!" leitmotif.

And now we're just getting the official confirmation that things would NEVER play out between Kamijou and Sayaka. Talk about the show making a fertile soil for yuri shippers, when the only visibly potential straight couple (featuring the only relatively prominent male for miles around ) gets cut down to the root.

He prefers feminine girls, I suppose...Poor poor Sayaka...

I personally don't think that being energetic or even tomboyish has anything to do with being feminine. IMveryHO a girl can wear trousers, play basketball, refer to herself in masculine pronouns and whatnot, but there will always be something definitely feminine about her (and no, I'm not talking body parts here ). And I view Sayaka as an unmistakably feminine girl, even though some might disagree. Heh, I consider Kyouko feminine, too, even though Sayaka comes off pretty Hitomi-esque compared to her.

I'm a girl, but personally, I'd take Sayaka over Hitomi anyday.
What a strange thing for me to say...

Well, I'm a guy, and I sign under your words.
And Kyouko, although a girl, might do that, too. Although ironically, speaking of all this shipping stuff, nobody from the main cast gives off an impression of being attracted to girls. While Kyouko, in particular, is flanderised in the fanfics regarding that aspect, her bringup as a priest's daughter casts a heavy doubt on that. In fact, it's far more assumable that she, like Homura, may have developed special feelings for a certain someone. The "Romantic Two Girls Friendship" trope exists for a reason.

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Some new interviews have surfaced, and a question about why Kamijou didn't pay attention to Sayaka was made. The answer was that he never saw her as a woman, but just as a friend. The reason why he never contacted her when he got released from the hospital, even though he was grateful for the celebration after his hand got healed, was because of things happening too fast. In addition, the reason he didn't approach her in school was because he had a lot of girls jumping on him, and he had to deal with them and thus had no time to approach Sayaka.

thanks for the info, but i'm curious of the source if this is an official release. links please, thanks!

anyways, saya doesn't need to be look at as a woman romantically to have an attention from kamijou. since they are friends he could have treated her better. i mean she's a woman, she deserve respect and a lot nicer treatment not necessarily romantic feelings. regarding girls jumping on him, i think this was not shown in tv at all. when he was at school it was his male classmates that were all around him. a simple sms message could have made saya happy.

how about not informing saya that he was released a whole day before from the hospital? saya was his ONLY friend the whole time around and she was there when they have a mini-celebration at the hospital's rooftop. how could he missed her? an approach to saya doesn't mean he's going to kiss her or make love with her. he just need to face/contact her, look "FRIEND" i'm fine now, i was released already so don't mind running to the hospital tomorrow, look "FRIEND" you're correct both miracle and magic exist, i feel better now. in sms: look "FRIEND" i'm surrounded with hordes of hot girls the whole day, can't get my eyes off them, see you tomorrow at school =) how about something like that

[Snork]

look "FRIEND" i'm surrounded with hordes of hot girls the whole day, can't get my eyes off them, see you tomorrow at school =)

LOL, I doubt reading that would make Sayaka feel better. But overall, the point stands firm. Things happening too fast are the common excuse we all get to use at least once in a lifetime when we forget to get in contact with people we'd better not neglect. Thus it's believable and explains Kamijou's behaviour quite understandably, but hardly redeems his negligence.
Of course, it's good luck that most of us get the punishment for negligence in the form of our friends being sad/pissed off. Not in the form of the being found dead. Maybe Kamijou planned to thank his friend properly for all she had done for him (did anyone else from the class visit him anyway?), but all these words will forever remain unsaid now.

[CrimsonSunshine]

I'd really like to know how Kyosuke felt when he discovered Sayaka had died.

[Snork]

I'd like to know if he at least attended the funeral.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Snork

I'd like to know if he at least attended the funeral.

Hopefully we'll find out once the dvd/blue ray content gets released...

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by Snork

LOL, I doubt reading that would make Sayaka feel better.

haha, let me rephrase that since the interview claimed and confirmed that he has fangirls, the sms would say: "look 'FRIEND', i got an army of all hot and sexy girls, the only one missing is you~~~~" saya feels better, of course, casual humor like that would be normal for 'FRIENDS' even if they have no romantic feelings.

Things happening too fast are the common excuse we all get to use at least once in a lifetime when we forget to get in contact with people we'd better not neglect.

kidding aside, well this is plausible and probably the best possible excuse kamijou bastard could likely make, it's actually not off his character. but again, it appears so weak and probably make him more hateful to some. the excuse is something what a peeping tom would make, "i didn't intend to it just happened so fast!"

[Snork]

In this light, I found it mildly hilarious how the ep 2 shot with Kamijou (while Sayaka was talking about wishes) got darker in the BD and the flower bouquet was removed. Could almost be interpreted as the animators saying: "Aw, c'mon, flowers for this jerk?"

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by kaigan

thanks for the info, but i'm curious of the source if this is an official release. links please, thanks!

Here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Talk:Tra...ents#June_2011

[CrimsonSunshine]

Originally Posted by Snork

I'd like to know if he at least attended the funeral.

The jerk better have went to her funeral. And cry there too! Cry!

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by CrimsonSunshine

I'm a girl, but personally, I'd take Sayaka over Hitomi anyday.

I'd take both!

[kaigan]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Here: http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Talk:Tra...ents#June_2011

ok, thanks dude, so it's official. i think they knew exactly what i (and plenty of others) in mind since my very question was answered there, interesting.

well, i said before that if kamijou bastard earned a spin-off or a decent explanation of his cold treatment to saya i would probably change my view of him. but after reading, i doubt if this official explanation would earn him new fans and sympathizers.

tl;dr version of the interview: saya's "CLOSE FRIEND" only no romantic feelings.

so in kamijou's logic, it warrants him to speak harshly and coldly since there is no romantic relationship going on between the two? how about being a "CLOSE FRIEND"? so, the interview admits she's not just a friend, but a "CLOSE FRIEND."

he did not notify her because he sees her not a potential love interest? do you need to see a girl as potential love interest before you inform them to spare them the burden of running and accompanying you in your loneliness in the hospital?

he was in a hurry. WT*!!! he was discharged a whole day before already, the nurse said so. 24 full hours had passed. what there is a need to hurry? did he forget saya is regularly visiting him? in those 24 hours did he even forget to piss because of his excitement? a simple notification through sms would not consume too much time, maybe a few seconds and a couple of fingers. it's much lesser time and lesser effort than tuning his violin, believe me.

he did not approach her at school because so many girls are greeting him. WT*!!! this is unfounded in tv version at least. well, i assume this was what originally in the storyboard but there are no supporting scenes in the broadcast version. when saya, hitomi, and mado spotted the bastard, he was with their classmates 6 in all, 2 are girls. none of them are walking beside him. the first one is leading the party and the second is on his left side ahead of him. none of them are making a ruckus about him.

inside the classroom, 3 MALE classmates are around him. there are 2 girls in the same frame but none of them is around the bastard. in fact the girls each has a male companion and they're minding their own businesses.

so, in kamijou's little mind, you need to tell a girl not to burden themselves running to the hospital, approach them in school, only if you see them as a love interest?

so where are exactly these girls he's speaking of? off-camera? another lame excuse. this doesn't put him in a much better light. if i'm kyouko, i would probably grab those clutches of his and hit those delicate legs. he don't need those to play violin anyway. kyouko's probably pissed of sharing the same pronunciation of their names.

conclusion: kamijou's officially now recognized as a bastard based on official interview.

[wavehawk]

I'm more annoyed that Kamijou is such a weak person. I've seen guitar players who had no hands and still played. If he really did have a passion for the violin, he'd be able to play even without the use of his hands. And obviously, when a girl who's his childhood friend tries to encourage him, he lashes out at her by saying she's trying to make him suffer.

Where is this going? Well, in my mind it's obvious that Kamijou would pick Hitomi. Not just for the femininity aspect, but more like he feels the need to be babied. Not encouraged at all, but more like someone who will just put up with him (and his petulances).

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by CrimsonSunshine

And Kyosuke goes without saying. I actually like his character design, but his tantrum in the hospital just made him seem like a rotten brat. Putting myself in his shoes, I realized it could be understandable had Sayaka been a mere classmate or someone else with a distant relationship to him, but this was the girl who faithfully came to visit him everyday, his childhood friend, who did everything for him!

Well, he did apologize to Sayaka, for what it's worth (Who told him that he shouldn't worry about it). Your loyalty to Sayaka is sweet, though, slightly irrational though it might be. :p

And that new interview is pretty interesting... nice to have new details keep on surfacing like this even after the show's end. The 'things were happening too fast' excuse works for me, so I don't really blame him for failing to notify Sayaka about his leaving the hospital.

And yeah, I'm sure Kamijou attended the funeral. He might be a bit insensitive and thickheaded, but he's not that heartless. >_>