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germanturkey · 2008-04-13, 18:05

I equate Suzaku to darth vader. trust me, he'll do something similar to what Vadar did in return of the jedi down the road. he'll sacrifice himself for lelouch's dream, because Lelouch's dream will eventually change over the course of the season to allow Suzaku to accept it too.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-13, 18:11

I'd rather that not happen, if anyone is to be Darth Vader I'd rather it be Rollo, it'd take away all that built up hate for Suzaku and make him even more cheesy then he already is, best to leave him as the enemy he is for any semblance of respect we may have for him now that he's stopped preaching I feel

germanturkey · 2008-04-13, 18:35

he's stopped preaching because his heart is dead. euphie, dead. lelouch, not friends any more. no family, no friends (except his comrades). he lost everything pursuing his dream, so now he'll work endless towards it, regardless of what gets in his way.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-13, 18:35

Which is why I say leave him there if it stops the preaching

prototype_sky · 2008-04-13, 18:42

This season is going to be interesting

Kallen totally failed last season to keep suzaku in check so for Zero to win either Suzaku or Rollo is going to have to switch sides to balance things out. Rollo is Suzaku squared at this point to have both geass and politing skill the only thing missing is his cunning, which I am sure we'll see in the next episode.

I don't get all this suzaku hate, everyone has many faces good, bad, and indifferent, so far most of the characters on this show deserve the swift justice for the sins they've committed.

Suzaku done some bad things but he's also done some good things, same can be said of Leouche. The irony of this whole story is that after witnessing the horror of war as kids and wanting to prevent it. They're current actions and selfishness are causing even more death and destruction.

Aquaman OS · 2008-04-13, 19:26

Suzaku still not a "bad" guy exactly. He's actually quite professional toward Lelouch despite the fact that he brainwashed his girl to commit atrocities that she would never do in her right mind, crushing her dream, and then after he had made use of her cruelly killed her right in front of him. (Now of course WE know thats not what really happened but Suzaku doesn't especially since Lelouch refused to tell him the truth. If he had he might have been able to perhaps get out of that situation. Oh Lelouch you're too nice for your own good.)

Suzaku is either going to join Lelouch either begrudging or not, sacrifice himself for him, or just die being an enemy to the end but with sadness from both sides and tears from Lelouch as another victim of Britannia's ways. Lelouch isn't going to get pleasure from his death, and it won't be cruel and unusual. So don't expect Lelouch dancing on his corpse or anything like that.

Juvyniled · 2008-04-13, 19:47

It's interesting to note that in these particular discussion (or rather chaotic arguments) that people tend to adopt one point of view in favor of another, and it is quite clear which point of view many people are adopting.

Why is it that because Suzaku is Lelouch's friend (notice how I did not write it the other way around), he must yield to his every whim? As many times as Suzaku has tried to kill Lelouch, Lelouch has done so to Suzaku. Simply because Lelouch and the black knights are unable to take him down does not equate to them holding any remorse towards Suzaku; if the Lelouch could kill Suzaku, he would. Now, it was NOT always like this, but with the progression of the plot, it was clear that there would be no more holds barred.

Wait.... didn't Suzaku say something like (or rather scream), "I'LL KILL YOU!" and I believe that quote in particular was directed at none other than Lelouch. Lelouch was spared.... does that mean that Suzaku still has feelings for their former companionship or that Suzaku has other sinister plans in mind? I can't answer that and neither can you, because we do not know what he is thinking (although we can all agree the answer would have been clear if Suzaku had just killed him instead).

For all it is worth, I can see why people SHOULD hate him; he is arrogant and conceited in his belief that simply because he is who he is, he is rightfully correct. However, I've seen an increasing amount of ridiculous accusations against him as a basis for hating his character.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2008-04-13, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Why is it that because Suzaku is Lelouch's friend (notice how I did not write it the other way around), he must yield to his every whim? As many times as Suzaku has tried to kill Lelouch, Lelouch has done so to Suzaku.

Err... Last I checked, Lulu did everything and anything to NOT kill Suzaku, up until the final episode of last season. Where did you get the idea that Lulu wanted him dead? He stopped Kallen's assassination attempts twice!

SeedFreedom · 2008-04-13, 19:57

If you look at all of Suzaku's actions you can come to a simple, clear concise conclusion. He's a hypocrite who's only interested in his outward appearance and status. If he really cared about the japanese people, he would have let his dad fight, or join with the winning side, OOBK. If he really cared about legality, he wouldn't punch Lloyd and launch by himself. If he really cared about revenge, he would have killed Lelouch in the cave. Instead he pawns his way into the military and into the KOTR (stupid FFVII abbreviation :P) with a trade of lelouch. He killed his father knowing he was going to lose and with it any hope of a redeeming status. he's still one of he less hated enemies in my book however. *is still mad at shuri's father*

prototype_sky · 2008-04-13, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Err... Last I checked, Lulu did everything and anything to NOT kill Suzaku, up until the final episode of last season. Where did you get the idea that Lulu wanted him dead? He stopped Kallen's assassination attempts twice!

Man if Kallen can succeed in killing Suzaku I'd be amazed

. She pretty much had her chance on the island and she got pwned. She'd literally have to resort to backstabbing tactics to take suzaku down at this point.

So far Rollo seems to be the only one who could match suzaku in piloting skills after 27 episodes. Hopefully the Xing guy have some hack skills as well since I believe suzaku being practically uncontested in season one is one of the reasons people direct hatred towards him

Juvyniled · 2008-04-13, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Err... Last I checked, Lulu did everything and anything to NOT kill Suzaku, up until the final episode of last season. Where did you get the idea that Lulu wanted him dead? He stopped Kallen's assassination attempts twice!

I didn't say that the moment he determined Suzaku to be his main obstacle, that he wanted to axe him.

If we must be technical, then so we shall. Up until the very final episode, Suzaku's desire was to eliminate Zero and not Lelouch specificly. Lelouch and Zero are one and the same, but Suzaku was not aware of that until near the very end of the series.

Marsala · 2008-04-13, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

I didn't say that the moment he determined Suzaku to be his main obstacle, that he wanted to axe him.

If we must be technical, then so we shall. Up until the very final episode, Suzaku's desire was to eliminate Zero and not Lelouch specificly. Lelouch and Zero are one and the same, but Suzaku was not aware of that until near the very end of the series.

Actually, Suzaku implied that he had suspected Lelouch to be Zero for quite some time before that, but he didn't want to believe it. Suzaku definitely knew during his cell phone call to Lelouch at the end of Episode 23. My guess is that he suspected from his first meeting with Zero.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-13, 20:15

He suspected after the island incident in episode 18 according to the interviews >_>

Juvyniled · 2008-04-13, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsala

Actually, Suzaku implied that he had suspected Lelouch to be Zero for quite some time before that, but he didn't want to believe it. Suzaku definitely knew during his cell phone call to Lelouch at the end of Episode 23. My guess is that he suspected from his first meeting with Zero.

Had he actually desired to act on that suspicion, he could have easily murdered him at school.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-13, 20:19

And he could have murdered him in the cave, but chose to trade him in for a cushy seat in the KoR's, your point?

Juvyniled · 2008-04-13, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

And he could have murdered him in the cave, but chose to trade him in for a cushy seat in the KoR's, your point?

My point is that intention is quite clear if whatever we suspect SHOULD happen does happen. Are you saying Suzaku traded his relationship with Euphemia simply for the trust of the Emperor? To believe that he concocted this entire plan is to note that he is somewhat intelligent (which even I doubt he is). Let's ignore the fact that Lelouch must survive up until a certain point for the show to continue. We were not shown Suzaku's reaction when it was revealed to him that Zero is Lelouch and that Zero had killed Euphemia (I am sure that we can confirm that much, but what else was said is unknown), so even he could be somewhat conflicted in that regard.

Suzaku could have eliminated Lelouch then and there, and he would have fulfilled his "revenge" to say the least AND I'm sure that he would have been held in somewhat high regards even then. Are you telling me that he was fully aware that he would be in a position to "advance" in the hierarchy? That he had made this deal prior? Waltzed up right to the Emperor in his almighty lair and cut a deal with him? Anybody would scoff at that notion.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2008-04-13, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

Man if Kallen can succeed in killing Suzaku I'd be amazed

. She pretty much had her chance on the island and she got pwned. She'd literally have to resort to backstabbing tactics to take suzaku down at this point.

She WAS back-stabbing. Quite literally too.

Narona · 2008-04-13, 20:33

Could it be that Suzaku wants to kill the Emperor?

He wants to "change the world from within". So maybe he wants to be close with the Emperor and kill kim if it's needed.

KrimzonStriker · 2008-04-13, 20:33

I thought that was exactly what he did, walk up to the Emperor and cut a deal to trade in Lelouch for a position in the Knight of Rounds.

Juvyniled · 2008-04-13, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

I thought that was exactly what he did, walk up to the Emperor and cut a deal to trade in Lelouch for a position in the Knight of Rounds.

At that very instant, he did in fact make a deal. But are you telling me that you know for a fact that he and the emperor had prepared this in ADVANCE? I.E., prior to the current situation?

2008-04-13, 18:05	Link #141
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	I equate Suzaku to darth vader. trust me, he'll do something similar to what Vadar did in return of the jedi down the road. he'll sacrifice himself for lelouch's dream, because Lelouch's dream will eventually change over the course of the season to allow Suzaku to accept it too.

2008-04-13, 18:11	Link #142
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	I'd rather that not happen, if anyone is to be Darth Vader I'd rather it be Rollo, it'd take away all that built up hate for Suzaku and make him even more cheesy then he already is, best to leave him as the enemy he is for any semblance of respect we may have for him now that he's stopped preaching I feel

2008-04-13, 18:35	Link #143
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	he's stopped preaching because his heart is dead. euphie, dead. lelouch, not friends any more. no family, no friends (except his comrades). he lost everything pursuing his dream, so now he'll work endless towards it, regardless of what gets in his way.

2008-04-13, 18:35	Link #144
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Which is why I say leave him there if it stops the preaching

2008-04-13, 18:42	Link #145
prototype_sky Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY	This season is going to be interesting Kallen totally failed last season to keep suzaku in check so for Zero to win either Suzaku or Rollo is going to have to switch sides to balance things out. Rollo is Suzaku squared at this point to have both geass and politing skill the only thing missing is his cunning, which I am sure we'll see in the next episode. I don't get all this suzaku hate, everyone has many faces good, bad, and indifferent, so far most of the characters on this show deserve the swift justice for the sins they've committed. Suzaku done some bad things but he's also done some good things, same can be said of Leouche. The irony of this whole story is that after witnessing the horror of war as kids and wanting to prevent it. They're current actions and selfishness are causing even more death and destruction.

2008-04-13, 19:26	Link #146
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Suzaku still not a "bad" guy exactly. He's actually quite professional toward Lelouch despite the fact that he brainwashed his girl to commit atrocities that she would never do in her right mind, crushing her dream, and then after he had made use of her cruelly killed her right in front of him. (Now of course WE know thats not what really happened but Suzaku doesn't especially since Lelouch refused to tell him the truth. If he had he might have been able to perhaps get out of that situation. Oh Lelouch you're too nice for your own good.) Suzaku is either going to join Lelouch either begrudging or not, sacrifice himself for him, or just die being an enemy to the end but with sadness from both sides and tears from Lelouch as another victim of Britannia's ways. Lelouch isn't going to get pleasure from his death, and it won't be cruel and unusual. So don't expect Lelouch dancing on his corpse or anything like that.

2008-04-13, 19:47	Link #147
Juvyniled Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California Age: 36	It's interesting to note that in these particular discussion (or rather chaotic arguments) that people tend to adopt one point of view in favor of another, and it is quite clear which point of view many people are adopting. Why is it that because Suzaku is Lelouch's friend (notice how I did not write it the other way around), he must yield to his every whim? As many times as Suzaku has tried to kill Lelouch, Lelouch has done so to Suzaku. Simply because Lelouch and the black knights are unable to take him down does not equate to them holding any remorse towards Suzaku; if the Lelouch could kill Suzaku, he would. Now, it was NOT always like this, but with the progression of the plot, it was clear that there would be no more holds barred. Wait.... didn't Suzaku say something like (or rather scream), "I'LL KILL YOU!" and I believe that quote in particular was directed at none other than Lelouch. Lelouch was spared.... does that mean that Suzaku still has feelings for their former companionship or that Suzaku has other sinister plans in mind? I can't answer that and neither can you, because we do not know what he is thinking (although we can all agree the answer would have been clear if Suzaku had just killed him instead). For all it is worth, I can see why people SHOULD hate him; he is arrogant and conceited in his belief that simply because he is who he is, he is rightfully correct. However, I've seen an increasing amount of ridiculous accusations against him as a basis for hating his character.

2008-04-13, 19:57	Link #149
SeedFreedom Hina is my goddess Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005	If you look at all of Suzaku's actions you can come to a simple, clear concise conclusion. He's a hypocrite who's only interested in his outward appearance and status. If he really cared about the japanese people, he would have let his dad fight, or join with the winning side, OOBK. If he really cared about legality, he wouldn't punch Lloyd and launch by himself. If he really cared about revenge, he would have killed Lelouch in the cave. Instead he pawns his way into the military and into the KOTR (stupid FFVII abbreviation :P) with a trade of lelouch. He killed his father knowing he was going to lose and with it any hope of a redeeming status. he's still one of he less hated enemies in my book however. is still mad at shuri's father

2008-04-13, 20:15	Link #153
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	He suspected after the island incident in episode 18 according to the interviews >_>

2008-04-13, 20:19	Link #155
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	And he could have murdered him in the cave, but chose to trade him in for a cushy seat in the KoR's, your point?

2008-04-13, 20:33	Link #158
Narona Emotionless White Face Join Date: Feb 2008	Could it be that Suzaku wants to kill the Emperor? He wants to "change the world from within". So maybe he wants to be close with the Emperor and kill kim if it's needed.

2008-04-13, 20:33	Link #159
KrimzonStriker Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	I thought that was exactly what he did, walk up to the Emperor and cut a deal to trade in Lelouch for a position in the Knight of Rounds.