[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[HayashiTakara]

The biggest problem with Bleach is the lack of consistency.

[RadiantBeam]

Ahhh, where do I begin...

1. Kubo. I love your characters. I really do. But DON'T BE AFRAID TO FREAKIN' KILL THEM OFF. Seriously, I'm sick of how many times throughout the series numerous characters got badly injured and then were saved just in the nick of time. The first few times fine, okay, I can swallow that, but every freakin' time they get sliced in half? Come on, now.

2. The power-ups that just come out of nowhere. So you mean to tell me that this whole time, captains and their liuetents were powered down that drastically on Earth during the SS arc? And yet the moment they get that seal removed they can kick ass? I can swallow a power up if it's properly explained, not when it comes out of nowhere. And yes, Ichigo, I'm looking at you.

3. Which, interestingly enough, brings me to my next point: Ichigo. I have nothing wrong with him personally, but as a character his development has just... seemed to stop. He's smart, yet constantly throws himself into danger without even thinking of other ways to do things. I understand wanting to save your friend/the town you grew up in, but have some common sense for a change. And how many training sessions is this boy going to go through? What happened to losing a fight, then learning from your mistakes? All Ichigo does is train, train, train, and then train some more.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by kakakka

I'm just saying.

And about double standards. I frequently changes opinion base on the mood.

Oh the double standards thing wasn't towards you......

[saffy]

Maybe this is why Zombie Powder failed? - Though the name in itself is an epic fail for me.

I agree with whoever upstairs on the inconsistency - so I wont repeat myself.

Also, it seems to me as if Kubo's had a change of heart and begun the road to a magical girl genre - Repetitive attacks, usually followed or executed by flurries of swishing, sometimes sparkly - , change of costume with each level up? Annoying - ugly, ugly - villians who dont know how to die and stay dead? Likewise Hero/Heroines? With an apallingly friendship driven starry eyed Ichigo thrown into the mix.

It also seems as if KT's run out of steam and decided that the more complex the plot the more logical and interesting it will seem - Could have been right if said plots werent so flawed. The relatively simple - though exciting - pre-SS arcs stories seemed to stay in my mind long after they had been told, while the HM arc has frankly gone on long enough.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

2. The power-ups that just come out of nowhere. So you mean to tell me that this whole time, captains and their liuetents were powered down that drastically on Earth during the SS arc? And yet the moment they get that seal removed they can kick ass? I can swallow a power up if it's properly explained, not when it comes out of nowhere. And yes, Ichigo, I'm looking at you.

The VC/Captain limit was explained way back when Renji fought Ichigo in SS. That wasn't a concept that came from nowhere.

Originally Posted by saffy

Also, it seems to me as if Kubo's had a change of heart and begun the road to a magical girl genre - Repetitive attacks, usually followed or executed by flurries of swishing, sometimes sparkly - , change of costume with each level up? Annoying - ugly, ugly - villians who dont know how to die and stay dead? Likewise Hero/Heroines? With an apallingly friendship driven starry eyed Ichigo thrown into the mix.

I agree Ichigo's become a little too chivalrous for my taste. In the beginning, he was a lot more practical and not quite as self-righteous. He treated being a shinigami like a job, not his sworn duty and even told Rukia that he was liable to run if things got too bad in a fight. I understand that the arcs now focus on Ichigo mostly protecting people he really cares about, but I missed it when Ichigo was more sarcastic and surly and not so gun-ho.

[Wolcik]

I remember when Ichigo was trying to recover his shinigami powers and his world was crumbling. Zangetsu poped out of nowhere and between saying things about his inside world being in danger and how to save this world, he somehow manages to talk about shinigami being able to fly... I tried to pull "unfiting information" in my comics and it always ends as badwriting - because there is no way a person would make a disgression that big in the middle of such dramatic speach. "You're going to die, I don't like rain, and you have to find your own power to survive" That doesn't sound right.

Ok, so we have Zangetsu's word that Shinigami can fly in real world or something. Well, it has to be real world since noone is flying in SS just to move faster or avoid the labirynth. Without mentioning fillers that exploit the labirynth theme even more, they don't even use shunpo too much or jumping on the walls.
Next thing we see is Urahara saving our group with his carpet, because not all of them are shinigami that can walk on sky. We know they can because after SS arc nearly all shinigami vs arrancar fights take place in mid-air while they both walk on sky.

But then we go to HM, and it turns out that Ichigo and Grimjaw (and others) can walk spiritually build sky too. This is a big news because most people would think that HM is more similar to SS while being constructed with spiritual energy and beina world where spiritual beings live. It somehow is more real than SS, because people can do sky walking thing.

It's not a big plothole, but it'll be if anybody starts fly (without super cloack) in SS.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

What does that page prove? Rukia thought putting the Espada in sunlight would revert back to Kaien? Not too mention the Espada said that attack would only "maybe" hurt him no where near kill him.

I said Rukia was doing pretty well holding her own, not that she was beating him.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Wolcik

I remember when Ichigo was trying to recover his shinigami powers and his world was crumbling. Zangetsu popped out of nowhere and between saying things about his inside world being in danger and how to save this world, he somehow manages to talk about shinigami being able to fly... I tried to pull "unfiting information" in my comics and it always ends as badwriting - because there is no way a person would make a disgression that big in the middle of such dramatic speach. "You're going to die, I don't like rain, and you have to find your own power to survive" That doesn't sound right.

Ok, so we have Zangetsu's word that Shinigami can fly in real world or something. Well, it has to be real world since noone is flying in SS just to move faster or avoid the labirynth. Without mentioning fillers that exploit the labirynth theme even more, they don't even use shunpo too much or jumping on the walls.
Next thing we see is Urahara saving our group with his carpet, because not all of them are shinigami that can walk on sky. We know they can because after SS arc nearly all shinigami vs arrancar fights take place in mid-air while they both walk on sky.

But then we go to HM, and it turns out that Ichigo and Grimjaw (and others) can walk spiritually build sky too. This is a big news because most people would think that HM is more similar to SS while being constructed with spiritual energy and beina world where spiritual beings live. It somehow is more real than SS, because people can do sky walking thing.

It's not a big plothole, but it'll be if anybody starts fly (without super cloack) in SS.

I think we exhausted this matter around 3 months ago, don't remember the thread...but it's definitely another one of those "things that KT forgot".
Anyways, about the main character, Ichigo was more of a deliquent in the beginning of the story, a very cool anti-hero with a little bit of power to misuse.
His friend gets kidnapped, he does some hyperbolic training and saves her ass after lots of brawling. WHY save her, a real deliquent would leave her to her fate or tell Renji to save her since he got a lot more backstory with Rukia, and instead Ichigo would focus on beating up anyone after his partially illegal ass, making for a more fighting-oriented story where the hero actually LEARNS how to fight and doesn't suddenly become enlightened outta nowhere. His enemies could become his sparring partners, they could enter underground shinigami tournaments, go on Quincy hunts, raise pet hollows for a freakin competition, ANYTHING BUT SAVING THE WORLD!

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I think we exhausted this matter around 3 months ago, don't remember the thread...but it's definitely another one of those "things that KT forgot".
Anyways, about the main character, Ichigo was more of a deliquent in the beginning of the story, a very cool anti-hero with a little bit of power to misuse.
His friend gets kidnapped, he does some hyperbolic training and saves her ass after lots of brawling. WHY save her, a real deliquent would leave her to her fate or tell Renji to save her since he got a lot more backstory with Rukia, and instead Ichigo would focus on beating up anyone after his partially illegal ass, making for a more fighting-oriented story where the hero actually LEARNS how to fight and doesn't suddenly become enlightened outta nowhere. His enemies could become his sparring partners, they could enter underground shinigami tournaments, go on Quincy hunts, raise pet hollows for a freakin competition, ANYTHING BUT SAVING THE WORLD!

This threat didn't had it so I thought I might add "flying" thing.

Ichigo at the begining was badass. He ripped hollows tongue and after he smashed it teeth out. He wanted revange on a hollow for killing his mom and using her face as a shield. Now he has a pet hollow that sometimes can turn into wack off material.

[Haak]

What's weird is Ichigo has Hollow Ichigo inside his mind who in turn has Zangetsu inside his mind.

It's a split personality in a split personality.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Haak

What's weird is Ichigo has Hollow Ichigo inside his mind who in turn has Zangetsu inside his mind.

It's a split personality in a split personality.

At least Zangetsu doesn't control his brains and body

[HayashiTakara]

*Ichigo losses badly in a fight*

Rukia: Oh crap Ichigo lost and we're going to die! Where's Inoue? Ishida get Inoue!

*Ishida gets Inoue*

Ishida: Hey Inoue look over there.

Inoue: Oh NoEs!!!! Ic.. I mean, Kurosaki-kun!!!!

Ichigo: RAWR! *powers up and wins*

Inoue: Ok, can I go home now?

Rukia: Sure, here's the cookie we promised.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

*Ichigo losses badly in a fight*

Rukia: Oh crap Ichigo lost and we're going to die! Where's Inoue? Ishida get Inoue!

*Ishida gets Inoue*

Ishida: Hey Inoue look over there.

Inoue: Oh NoEs!!!! Ic.. I mean, Kurosaki-kun!!!!

Ichigo: RAWR! *powers up and wins*

Inoue: Ok, can I go home now?

Rukia: Sure, here's the cookie we promised.

I lol'd...oh how I lol'd.

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by Haak

What's weird is Ichigo has Hollow Ichigo inside his mind who in turn has Zangetsu inside his mind.

It's a split personality in a split personality.

Here's some comparison to One Piece that Phenomenal so likes.
In One Piece they have Dream inside a dream, while in Bleach we have Split personality in a split personality XD

[Z. Kensei]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

*Ichigo losses badly in a fight*

Rukia: Oh crap Ichigo lost and we're going to die! Where's Inoue? Ishida get Inoue!

*Ishida gets Inoue*

Ishida: Hey Inoue look over there.

Inoue: Oh NoEs!!!! Ic.. I mean, Kurosaki-kun!!!!

Ichigo: RAWR! *powers up and wins*

Inoue: Ok, can I go home now?

Rukia: Sure, here's the cookie we promised.

Lol. What makes this so funny is how true it is.

As has already been mentioned, a death here or there wouldn't kill the story. Neither would providing backstories for many of the charectors that have simply been forgotten till another deux ex machina is needed. For example you've got Matsumoto and Gin, Kenpachi and his past. Something's are just left for us to guess at and not even hinted until so many chapter's later. Hopefully Kubo's been saving these for a later, because leaving all of that dangling is just retarded.

Another thing that's annoying is the power up's as of late. Kenpachi vs Nnoitora, and Ichigo vs ulqiorra are good examples. How the hell doe's holding a sword with two hands a sufficent power up against someone like nnoitora?? The flying thing i kinda turn a blind eye to. Its not a huge deal for me.

Despite all this though, Bleach is still a great show to watch and im betting if Hitsugaya dies, there will be a "Why you think Bleach is Great" thread.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Z. Kensei

How the hell doe's holding a sword with two hands a sufficent power up against someone like nnoitora??

Actually, I practice martial arts and I can tell you that technique can make a big difference, which I'm sure he was using as well as swinging with two hands.

But we hav to assume that coz Kubo doesn't really make it clear.

[kitten320]

Originally Posted by Haak

Actually, I practice martial arts and I can tell you that technique can make a big difference, which I'm sure he was using as well as swinging with two hands.

But we hav to assume that coz Kubo doesn't really make it clear.

I have to agree... just try to take a stick and hit something using one hand and then 2 hands... you will see the difference.

[Uncreativex]

The point with Kenpachi is that he has always been holding back, atleast for most of his battles. An eyepatch limiting his spirit energy and depth sight, bells in his hair, a sword that has loads of giant chips and he uses lousy, wild technique with one hand, all to prolong his battles. Since exhaustion has never been a real issue in Bleach, what do you think is best, someone going at full power from the start or someone just getting serious at the end?

As anyone with experience can tell you, technique means alot, and using two hands gives far more power than one hand.

Besides, by resolving to (try) to get to know his zanpakutou after having a stalemate with Ichigo, Kenpachi's power-up is somewhat explained. And I can predict more; if Kenpachi gets even more close to his blade he'll learn some fucking awesome bankai, and pretty much all Captains could get some Hollowification by Vaizards/Urahara out of necessity. Say they have such issues with Espada, they might see it inevitable to become Hollow-Shinigami to protect Sereitei. EDIT: From future vasto lordes.

What I hate about Bleach is the unexplained and illogical power-ups. It's all cool if he does some training or discovers some new power (like Bankai), but the "get surrounded by blue fire for some reason mid battle and pwn" type is getting tiring, and Kubo should kill off a few characters. He doesn't need to go overboard like the author og "Claymore" where 65% of the characters die suddenly, but for example if Hinamori truly died it would give some depth to the story and more character to Hitsugaya. Can't say I'm loving the "everyone can suddenly fly" thing either.

[saffy]

Everything started to go wrong the minute Ichigo became sexy. KT's cool retroesque earlier drawings fitted his sardonic personality and his permanently knitted eyebrows became his anime trademark. Now they just seemed to have disappeared, along with his shakespeare loving quirkyness.

Admittedly I do love the way he's drawn now, just wish he had retained some of the substance he had along with those retro drawings.

And Plot - plot is good.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Haak

Actually, I practice martial arts and I can tell you that technique can make a big difference, which I'm sure he was using as well as swinging with two hands.

But we hav to assume that coz Kubo doesn't really make it clear.

Yea, but so much so that his kendo slice is equivalent to a Espada cero?

I mean Hitsu always gets jabbed here and there about about taking on Espada opponents but its perfectly acceptable to have Kenpachi to eat them for breakfast?