AnimeSuki Forums

DonQuigleone · 2012-01-13, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well there was that little war in 1799. And the threats over Mexico in the 1860s.

The former was not a declared war (and France's government was rather... unstable), and the latter was just that, threats. No war took place.

Ithekro · 2012-01-13, 14:21

Then there was that whole Vietnam business......(thanks for that

)

And pretty much everything else was attitude post-World War II.

DonQuigleone · 2012-01-13, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Then there was that whole Vietnam business......(thanks for that

)

France lost in Vietnam... And America couldn't do any better!

I think France had a lot more experience in fighting insurgencies (they also fought in Algeria...), and I think they realised how fruitless and endeavour it is.

Probably one reason why they were opposed to Iraq, knew what kind of can of worms it would be.

Zakoo · 2012-01-13, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by solomon

Bon Sang, espece du pauvre nez du beni-cul et GOP merdique....ok done french rant

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Je ne peux qu'agréer avec vous sur ce point

( I can only agree with you on this

)

Oh guys, you made me cry so much. I can't hold it anymore, my stomach hurts me.

hahahahahaha

totoum · 2012-01-13, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakoo

Oh guys, you made me cry so much. I can't hold it anymore, my stomach hurts me.

hahahahahaha

Never has this image been more appropriate

Spoiler for size:

Xellos-_^ · 2012-01-13, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

France lost in Vietnam... And America couldn't do any better!

I think France had a lot more experience in fighting insurgencies (they also fought in Algeria...), and I think they realised how fruitless and endeavour it is.

Probably one reason why they were opposed to Iraq, knew what kind of can of worms it would be.

They only ones who didn't realize (or care) just how bad the Iraqi Occupation would be was Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield.

Haak · 2012-01-13, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

They only ones who didn't realize (or care) just how bad the Iraqi Occupation would be was Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield.

*cough* As well as Tony Blair...

Zetsubo · 2012-01-13, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targus

Why? It's the truth. The bill gives Obama and any president that follows to take anyone suspected of terrorism without trial and hold them until the end of the "war on terror" which could go on for who knows how long. Stalin did a similar thing when he had his agents abduct innocents and throw them in labor camps. When having that in mind, the two are comparable.

OHH

MY

GOD !

Are you seriously comparing Obama to Stalin ?

Ohhh sweet Buddha !

Zetsubo · 2012-01-13, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

I usually consider the US-France mutual jabbing as "sibling rivalry", but there's a fair part of the US that is xenophobic on *anything* outside its borders and they fear/shun people who become knowledgeable about the Outside. The more you know, the more likely it is you understand there's more than one True Way or solution to problems.

Spoken like it is one of Buddhas four noble truths.

The Japanese also behave in the same manner but with a more insipid attitude dressed in colourful politeness.

"You aren't Japanese, so you reeeeeaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyy don't understand."

solomon · 2012-01-13, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakoo

Oh guys, you made me cry so much. I can't hold it anymore, my stomach hurts me.

hahahahahaha

oh man, was my french THAT bad? Sorry if it sounded lame, only "education" I have is reading Le Monde and watching Les Info et Les Simpson sur le web!

Zakoo · 2012-01-13, 18:59

No, not at all, firstly I wasn't expecting it. But above all, let's say natural english language is the one of Shakespear, then naturally I don't speak it, I speak the casual english. On the same line, I thought you would speak the casual french but no, you two began to recite the old good fashioned french of Molière. I was like "omg who still use the word agréer aside politicians now?"

Edit : Yes Solomon, you are right, because both our country are very proud of their history and culture (too much proud?), they fear everything external that could harm their culture. I'm sure if we truly would like, we could copy the good system of northern country, but people don't want to, saying "culture is different, history is different" by hiding behind those things, improvement of both our country seems now impossible.

One day, maybe, there will be politicians who will have guts to say to the people that they will have to put their pride somewhere else, but ofc, those politicians won't ever get elected by the common people... this is a closed circle.

solomon · 2012-01-13, 19:17

Wow did my French sound that stuffy? Admittedly, I am not up on "street French" and sailor talk like I am in my native English or even Japanese. "Bon Sang" always seemed like "Jesus!" in English the way it seemed used on TV I saw.

Anyways, I think it cuts both ways. I think for always trolling each other French and US are very similar. Both are VERY proud of their unique history and culture, sometimes blusteringly so . Both kinda see themselves as the epitiomy of Western Ideas as far as democracy and stuff goes. Both believe heavily in the spirit and importance of democracy and free speech (revolutionary backgrounds, n'est pas?)

Then of course you have the "freedom fries" people. Which don't enrage me any more, they just make me face palm. They (people around my age) get all hard referencing "We saved your ass in WWII" (Mais, Ta nous donne le fric et autre choses pour assistance du le GUERRE PRIMERE; {Le Revolution American}, n'est pas?) and laugh at their "wierdass" culture (not "shaving or bathing", paying high taxes, etc.)

I'm just.....wow. People are rallying against him for being educated? I mean WTF? I wonder if it would be any worse if he spoke Chinese?

Of course there is a certain group who hate anything "foriegn". But you know, every country has that. (Si non, pour quoi sont-il la gens comme Le Pen et Cie sur L'Hexagon? Ou je suis trompe?")

Again sorry if my French is wierd, it's really cool language but while much easier to learn than Japanese still hard to learn informally on your own (il rie)

Vexx · 2012-01-13, 19:28

Believe it or not, this is intrinsic to the elections over the next year both local, state, and national for some folks

since we seem to have to educate them on why theocracies aren't an 'insta-win' for them.

the outfit is an insta-win.

Frenchie · 2012-01-13, 19:35

I think my style is actually too formal or something when I speak French. I actually lost a job interview because somehow, my French sounded, and I quote: "Artificial." I was in the room and they were watching me do the test..

Anyways.

American xenophobia towards France is silly, simply because they'll never be able to erase the document that the two countries actually shared: The Constitution. In France, that document became the Declaration of Rights of man and of the Citizen.

The Constitution upholds two French philosophies, aka: The Social Contract, by Rousseau.

Quote:

"The Social Contract was a progressive work that helped inspire political reforms or revolutions in Europe, especially in France. The Social Contract argued against the idea that monarchs were divinely empowered to legislate; as Rousseau asserts, only the people, in the form of the sovereign, have that all powerful right."

Annnnd The Separation of Powers.

Quote:

Montesquieu saw two types of governmental power existing: the sovereign and the administrative. The administrative powers were the executive, the legislative, and the judicial. These should be separate from and dependent upon each other so that the influence of any one power would not be able to exceed that of the other two, either singly or in combination.

Funny how two countries, upholding a very similar set of values, turned out to be so different.

Zetsubo · 2012-01-13, 19:41

If you have prayer in the home, then you do not need prayer in the schools.

Zetsubo · 2012-01-13, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenchie

I think my style is actually too formal or something when I speak French. I actually lost a job interview because somehow, my French sounded, and I quote: "Artificial." I was in the room and they were watching me do the test..

Anyways.

American xenophobia towards France is silly, simply because they'll never be able to erase the document that the two countries actually shared: The Constitution. In France, that document became the Declaration of Rights of man and of the Citizen.

The Constitution upholds two French philosophies, aka: The Social Contract, by Rousseau.

Several reasons.

1. World War 1... being a super power France looked down on American soldiers.

2. World war 2 ... Smashed to hell by Germany and the big old White flag.

3. Vichy France ... Need I say More

4. France went down a socialist road.

5. Vietnam. (the idiocy of this is astounding)

6. The British connection.

The French "Attitude" was no longer tolerated ever since the USA had to "save Frances bacon" ... there is a joke in there somewhere.

France was no longer a super power... being humiliated by Hitler... so French Snottiness was pretty much unjustifiable.

Vietnam was France trying to win back some prestige... nope that failed too.

Not that the USA did any better... but at least the USA was "A super power"

The UK and USA became two peas in a pod during and after WWII ... (Churchill FDR) while De-gaule was seen as a fop with no teeth arguing for pride when his people sold out (Vichy)

The Anglo ties got stronger during the Cold war and FRANCE was seen as a weak link better to be ignored and ... the old British dislike of France seeped into the USA.

Ever notice how French accents sound "gay" while British accents sound "smart and cool"

Lol !

Perceptions are changed in History like Cats change fur.

Frenchie · 2012-01-13, 20:00

All well and good, but as much as they want to deny it, it's written in history and history can't be erased, I'm afraid.

Vexx · 2012-01-13, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

If you have prayer in the home, then you do not need prayer in the schools.

If one is so insecure in their belief system that they feel compelled to silence every other interpretation of "why?", then they're going to disregard that.

Nanya01 · 2012-01-13, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenchie

All well and good, but as much as they want to deny it, it's written in history and history can't be erased, I'm afraid.

History is written by the winners.

Ithekro · 2012-01-13, 21:28

Not always. There have been histories written by the losers over time. Usually because they eventually outlast the winners over the course of centuries. (Think of all the history of the Jews losing that is written in the Bible for instance. Several of those losses are historical and written by the Jews themselves.)

Or the American Civil War. I've read several histories of that written by Southerners.

2012-01-13, 14:21	Link #1882
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Then there was that whole Vietnam business......(thanks for that ) And pretty much everything else was attitude post-World War II. __________________

2012-01-13, 18:59	Link #1891
Zakoo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Gensokyo	No, not at all, firstly I wasn't expecting it. But above all, let's say natural english language is the one of Shakespear, then naturally I don't speak it, I speak the casual english. On the same line, I thought you would speak the casual french but no, you two began to recite the old good fashioned french of Molière. I was like "omg who still use the word agréer aside politicians now?" Edit : Yes Solomon, you are right, because both our country are very proud of their history and culture (too much proud?), they fear everything external that could harm their culture. I'm sure if we truly would like, we could copy the good system of northern country, but people don't want to, saying "culture is different, history is different" by hiding behind those things, improvement of both our country seems now impossible. One day, maybe, there will be politicians who will have guts to say to the people that they will have to put their pride somewhere else, but ofc, those politicians won't ever get elected by the common people... this is a closed circle. Last edited by Zakoo; 2012-01-13 at 19:27.

2012-01-13, 19:28	Link #1893
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Believe it or not, this is intrinsic to the elections over the next year both local, state, and national for some folks since we seem to have to educate them on why theocracies aren't an 'insta-win' for them. the outfit is an insta-win. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-01-13, 20:00	Link #1897
Frenchie Shougi Génération Graphic Designer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 37	All well and good, but as much as they want to deny it, it's written in history and history can't be erased, I'm afraid. __________________ Wikileaks - Animesuki, what you would do, might do, or did to make your voice heard.

2012-01-13, 21:28	Link #1900
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Not always. There have been histories written by the losers over time. Usually because they eventually outlast the winners over the course of centuries. (Think of all the history of the Jews losing that is written in the Bible for instance. Several of those losses are historical and written by the Jews themselves.) Or the American Civil War. I've read several histories of that written by Southerners. __________________

2012-01-13, 19:17	Link #1892
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Wow did my French sound that stuffy? Admittedly, I am not up on "street French" and sailor talk like I am in my native English or even Japanese. "Bon Sang" always seemed like "Jesus!" in English the way it seemed used on TV I saw. Anyways, I think it cuts both ways. I think for always trolling each other French and US are very similar. Both are VERY proud of their unique history and culture, sometimes blusteringly so . Both kinda see themselves as the epitiomy of Western Ideas as far as democracy and stuff goes. Both believe heavily in the spirit and importance of democracy and free speech (revolutionary backgrounds, n'est pas?) Then of course you have the "freedom fries" people. Which don't enrage me any more, they just make me face palm. They (people around my age) get all hard referencing "We saved your ass in WWII" (Mais, Ta nous donne le fric et autre choses pour assistance du le GUERRE PRIMERE; {Le Revolution American}, n'est pas?) and laugh at their "wierdass" culture (not "shaving or bathing", paying high taxes, etc.) I'm just.....wow. People are rallying against him for being educated? I mean WTF? I wonder if it would be any worse if he spoke Chinese? Of course there is a certain group who hate anything "foriegn". But you know, every country has that. (Si non, pour quoi sont-il la gens comme Le Pen et Cie sur L'Hexagon? Ou je suis trompe?") Again sorry if my French is wierd, it's really cool language but while much easier to learn than Japanese still hard to learn informally on your own (il rie)

2012-01-13, 19:41	Link #1895
Zetsubo 著述遮断 Join Date: Jul 2009	If you have prayer in the home, then you do not need prayer in the schools.