(L+CR) Kyoukai no Kanata (Beyond the Boundary)

[nojay]

My vote for best fight scene in anime goes to the battle between the Palmtop Tiger and Kano the Student Council President in ep. 16 of Toradora! If you saw it you'll remember it simply because it was two people heartily sick of each other and deciding to just go at it. No trick moves or posing, no out-of-your-ass powerups just two folks collecting a set of bruises and cuts slamming at each other.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

Man, I thought some action scenes in Full Metal Panic: TSR was pretty damn solid like this brutal one starting at 14:50: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4jn...=ELGKk_wvRzwbU

Granted some of it was done by Yutaka Yamamoto and his peeps who later left and became Ordet so maybe they lost the staff with the know-hows for fighting scenes?



I don't think I've seen a KyoAni series where everyone even the Japanese otaku are unsure of. Hopefully with those future episode summaries before, it'll start bringing the crowd back, and maybe preorders might reach to Chuunibyou's or Free's range. It will really feel sucky if it fell into Tamako's range.

That's actually the best TSR has. Regarding who did it, I really haven't found an answer myself. A quick look at the staff list tells me that KNK's director did Key Animation for that ep. It has a chance that is him. Ah who knows.

Anyway regarding the next eps, I expect ep 1-5 to be serious. Ep 6 might be the breather/comedic episode.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by nojay

My vote for best fight scene in anime goes to the battle between the Palmtop Tiger and Kano the Student Council President in ep. 16 of Toradora! If you saw it you'll remember it simply because it was two people heartily sick of each other and deciding to just go at it. No trick moves or posing, no out-of-your-ass powerups just two folks collecting a set of bruises and cuts slamming at each other.

It wasn't the most brilliantly animated but there was a lot of great emotion behind it.

But really, a lot the examples that are being used for comparison here happen plenty of episodes into the series and had loads of time for build up (comparing it to Hunter x Hunter feels particularly unfair). We're only two episodes in so I think it's only fair to compare it to other shows that have highly intensive fights within the second episode.

My vote goes to Evangelion. XP

(Just kidding: A better example might be To aru Majutsu no Index.)

[EroKing]

[Arturia Polaris]

Yessss ero king give me moar red eyed black dragon

Cheers

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

And there you go. Westlo proves my point - That it's actually the other side of the action scene debate that is denying any subjectivity to this by acting like good animation alone automatically means good action scene.

It's not good animation that makes a good action scene, it's good animation and choreography that makes a good action scene. All the other stuff you want to place more value on is what elevates an average scene to good, a good scene to great and a great scene to excellence. I aint denying shit thank you very much, I've already said the stuff you place importance on are factors in the quality of a scene, otoh you're trying to deny the quality of a scene because it lacks those elements.

If you can't objectively see that 0:23 to 0:42 is a good action scene than i give up, as for the the change of settings in a fight post, I aint even going to touch that.

[Shinhwa]

You know, after hearing "Youmu" in this series, I knew this joke would come sooner or later:

[liro]

^ I doubt she could beat Youmu in a sword match.

[Shinhwa]

Originally Posted by liro

^ I doubt she could beat Youmu in a sword match.

Youmu would beat the crap out of her

[FredFriendly]

Originally Posted by nojay

My vote for best fight scene in anime goes to the battle between the Palmtop Tiger and Kano the Student Council President in ep. 16 of Toradora! If you saw it you'll remember it simply because it was two people heartily sick of each other and deciding to just go at it. No trick moves or posing, no out-of-your-ass powerups just two folks collecting a set of bruises and cuts slamming at each other.

Can you imagine Mirai and Mitsuki going at each other in a scrap like that, without using any superhuman powers? Or like the equally very emotional fight in episode 21? I'm not sure that either Mirai or Mitsuki are capable of putting that much emotion into a fight. Perhaps if they fight over Akihito we might see something really spectacular.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by liro

^ I doubt she could beat Youmu in a sword match.

Only because of difference in training. Given the same level of experience a blood user is likely Touhou level in power.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Westlo

it's good animation and choreography that makes a good action scene.

Imo the most important thing in a action scene, or any scene really, is the cinematography (framing and "camera" angle). You can make something as simple as a single punch look awesome depending on how it is depicted on screen. On the other hand, bad cinematography can can make even the best choreographed action sequence look like shit.

Just saying. I don't really disagree with your point. And yeah, that bit from Soul Eater is pretty awesome.

[darkchibi07]

Screenshots for ep. 3 are out!

http://anime-kyokai.com/story/03/

And Mitsuki has a cute animal thing with her!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Westlo

I aint denying shit thank you very much,

No, you are denying the role of subjective taste here. You're saying that good animation and good choreography makes an objectively good action scene.

But what if I agree that an action scene has good animation and good choreography but it still doesn't do anything at all for me? What if it's just soulless spectacle to me? Why should I consider that a good action scene? It isn't a good scene to me.

If you can't accept that, then yes, you're denying the subjective element to action scene assessments.

And as for that bit from Soul Eater - What's so great about it anyway? It's Ok, but even for just pure spectacle, I've seen a lot flashier and more impressive-looking action scenes. Heck, Soul Eater itself has plenty of action scenes I'd put ahead of that one.

[Marcus H.]

This segue is getting too far off the topic which is Kyoukai no Kanata.

[darkchibi07]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

This segue is getting too far off the topic which is Kyoukai no Kanata.

Those future episode summaries up to episode 6 are posted so we can at least speculate how they'll execute them, maybe? I would say that the 1st 5 eps. constitute as one arc with the 6th ep. acting as a transition to another one. Ishidate would have grown better in his direction along the way, right?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Imo the most important thing in a action scene, or any scene really, is the cinematography (framing and "camera" angle). You can make something as simple as a single punch look awesome depending on how it is depicted on screen. On the other hand, bad cinematography can can make even the best choreographed action sequence look like shit.

Just saying. I don't really disagree with your point. And yeah, that bit from Soul Eater is pretty awesome.

I'll have to second this quite a bit. I was trying to avoid using "camera angles" since there isn't really a camera to speak of and it's just scene composition on paper/canvas but that's exactly what I think is missing in Kyoukai no Kanata's action scenes: the camera doesn't convey the action, it's mostly just there looking at what's happening with minor shakes. I know Kyoani can do some cool stuff but to do an exciting action sequence you need someone with a bit of imagination and experience to do them and it seems like they are lacking that currently. I'm sure they could get there given time though.

[ZabiLegacy]

If we're counting great cinematography as important to creating an action sequence, then the final fight of act 1 of Naruto probably holds the distinction of best fight as far as I'm concerned. The sequence where Sasuke knocks Naruto underwater and then hundreds of naruto clones shoot out of the water like missiles is simply an incredible blend of camerawork and fight choreography.

[Triple_R]

I generally agree with what Kazu-kun and Dextro are saying about the importance of cinematography.

At least for me, good cinematography in an action scene will give that scene at least some drama and suspense. Even if I don't particularly care about the characters, good cinematography in an action scene will create a certain level of excitement or tension.

And yes, perhaps that good cinematography was what the action scene in KnK's second episode was missing.

There's little things that I think can add a lot to an action scene - Like doing a close up of one of the combatants looking shocked or horrified (you see this in the Railgun S episodes 5 and 6 examples I gave earlier on the thread), or watching the two combatants shift their eyes into tense eye contact while, say, crossing blades.

I think some people put too much emphasis on sheer speed and quick, fluid movements in action scenes. Yes, that's nice, but if that's all an action scene has, it's not likely to do much for me.

Edit: With this in mind, I recall how some Nanoha fans preferred the action scenes in the original Nanoha TV series to the action scenes in the two Nanoha movies. This was in spite of the fact that the Nanoha movies had better and flashier animation, and clearly higher production values. However, for many fans, those Nanoha movie action scenes just didn't have those nice, little moments that can add so much to an action scene, whereas the original Nanoha TV series had plenty of such moments.

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Another excellent example is Homura's from episode eleven of Madoka Magica. There are major Madoka spoilers in this scene and the related videos, so proceed with caution.

Dennou Coil's fourth episode had a great fight between child hackers and it didn't rely on fast paced attacks. There's no English subs in the video so the impact of what they're doing is lost to those who don't understand what they're saying.

I feel like the main thing missing from Kyoukai no Kanata's battle scenes is good fight music and timing. They managed to do it well in the second PV by syncing it with the guitar in Chihara Minori's "No Line". However, the actual fight scene in episode 2 had an ambient background that was underwhelming and didn't really fit.