Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Discussion/Poll - Final Episodes!

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Solace

Well....I'm flattered! I'm also pretty happy with how close I got, but it wasn't perfect, and I never would have thought of half of the stuff I predicted (not just in that post but in many others) without the excellent discussing partners in this forum. However, I do appreciate the compliments.

Most importantly, I'm glad you stuck with the show and enjoyed it so much!

By the time episode 10 was aired, I was hoping for a happier ending than what I wanted after episode 3.

Then I remembered that some of the pact with the devil stories managed a happy ending because the mortal have managed to find a loophole in the contract for him to exploit and save his soul.

You have put in clearer words what have been very blurry in my mind. In hindsight, you have been the closest to how it should have been. Turning magical girl with a Third Option was not really an option, since nothing in show have hinted such possiblity. What the actions of the cast have given Madoka so far is how the system worked. Thanks to all of that, she have been able to formulate her wish in such a way that it would not backfire in the worst way possible.

I know that the show is far from being perfect, but the way it unfolded is something that I can't praise enough and have been far more rewarding than I have expected. I would have been angry over a Mai-Hime-like ending, as I would have been over one that is soul-crushing depressing (with all the shit Homura have gone through, she doesn't deserve that), Gen somehow found the middle way and I have been satisfied. Which is part of the reason why I gave those two last episodes a 10. Cold logical judgement can eat a wiener, the emotional investment in the characters, the story and the show overall made it all the more worth it.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by Shakiga

For me, the last episode was pretty satisfying. Although I don't understand what's with Homura at the end (she got chaotic wings?). Is it because she fights too much in the new world and leveled up!? If so, then it's kinda silly reason to me... 10 points anyway ^^

It's an open conclusion, leaving the viewer to guess how and why she ended up in that epilogue. I believe that she obtained immense powers over time in the process of defeating the Majuu and harvesting the black cubes.

Originally Posted by Shakiga

Also, just read through wiki, found out Homura's old ability wasn't complete time travel. That explained why she didn't travel back 2 or 3 days before but has to be 1 full month.

Spoiler for Homura's Wish:

To save Madoka from certain death, Homura's wish stated that she wanted to return to the time she first met the girl, meaning to say, she wanted to reset that fateful meeting. Her wish would be considered complete if she could save her from being killed by Walpurgis Night.

[Snork]

Yes... but that was before she changed the way the world(s) worked...I think.
So she was able to speak with them because they were dead. Once she changes everything, they are alive. Then again, if Madoka is still in the past, present and future, for her everyone is dead and alive, at the same time.

Personally, I like to think that she no longer needs to destroy the witches of the past since they no longer exist. And I don't think that the past keeps occurring over and over again. She "fixed"everything at the same time. So, now, there is only the present/future... anyway, that is how I see things. Keeping multiple realities at the same time is too much for me.

That might depend on an outer perspective. Madoka herself, existing beyond time and space, may have access to all timelines and events of past and future [to whatever extent]; the question is, if you communicate with her, do you communicate with her overall existence or one of her projections? The projections were launched at the moment of contracting, thus it's possible that Sayaka of TL6 will be able to question Madoka of any events up to this point, but not further, and some Viking PM will fail to get any information on what happens in timeline 6 onward, since this projection of Madoka, sent to the past, will only have memories limited to her physical life experience (abridged to the frame of timeline 5, to boot).

Of course, this speculah might be futile since the only ones capable of directly communicating with Madoka are mostly souls - and if their existence is detached from the timeflow as well, it's possible they'll interact with the only one, "overall" Madoka whose mind keeps track of all the events she was involved in after contracting, instead of her projections limited to the time when she came to them. Since we physical beings have no experience of omnipresent consiousness, we can't really relate to how their communication will work technically. The audition scene is curious in that aspect: Madoka's ability to view the future of negated timelines may stem from her infiltration to all of them (and this might also suggest that even if her existence has NOT extended into infinite future at once, she may sense/imagine possible branchings and alterations revolving around the magical girls she visits - "worlds that may come to be"), but does she just demonstrate it to other souls, or do they possess the same ability by default, since their existence is now beyond time as well?

Existence beyond time would bring up yet another question: does a soul of a Puella Magi regain the memories of previous negated timelines? Or will Sayaka have to get reacquainted to Madoka, not realizing that the pink-haired valkyrie used to be her dearest friend? and without Madoka's help, will she never know of her repeated sacrifices for Kamijou's health, her repeated denial of the results and the tearful acceptance of them in the aforesaid audition scene, and of what Kyouko felt and did for her in all those previous lives?

I'm still going to go ahead and dismiss the idea of future Madoka being active in any way, shape or form prior to the end of the series, though.

And that would be credible - we experience the timeline BEFORE her appearance and intervention. That's the only perspective you can base this whole show upon.

Read through the past few pages; there have been several snippets of debates on that here and there.

So far I personally favour the "weapon" theory (meaning both black and white wings are part of Homura's current Puella Magi powers). That would also put her on one shelf with Eve from Black Cat (one of my fave anime characters).

I apologize if this has been asked before, but does Madoka's wish make her omnipresent only in the 5th timeline, or all timelines?

Most likely all timelines, since she specifies that point. Again, from our perspective it might not mean much since many of those timelines were [semi-]negated or branched off already by Homura's actions, and Madoka's own interference practically stomped the whole Groundhog Month into dust, making all timelines from 1 to 5 purely theoretical for everyone who lives on.

she just earned her powers and she's got a lot of work to do, time and space are infinite y'know.

Not sure if Puella Magi system is, on the other hand... But it doesn't seem to be shut down anytime soon, of this I'm certain.

Madoka and Sayaka's final meeting didn't seem all that "final".

Wellll, Sayaka was certainly reborn after that due to the timeline reboot. But since no future reboots are expected, rebirth is something we have yet to gather clues and hints about.
As of now we can imagine all we want, but it's a double-edged sword: regardless of how often one can be reborn, Sayaka either lives a human life, or keeps Madoka company. Tercium non datur.

If Gen wanted us to believe future god-like Madoka had anything to do with the events that made Madoka's ultimate wish possible, he would have made it more obvious.

There was also Shinbo to want it obvious or not. Script is one thing, presentation is another.

[mols]

yes, all this time paradox are too much for a straight forward guy like me. I must admit that I saw the show in a hurry and missed a lot of details, like the furry eyes I have seen mentioned (what episode?).

For me, the story has a few number of steps.
1)Madoka, in the first timeline, becomes a mahou shoujo, and dies while fighting WN.
2)Homura wishes to meet again and stop her death.
3)Homura's wish creates the other timelines. Yes, I do think that without her wish no other timelines would have appeared. I think, or rather, I prefer to think that the story is all due to her wish. For me the other timelines only exit from the moment Homura wakes up in the hospital until Madoka dies/becomes a witch.
4) final timeline. Madoka's wish destroys all witches. At once. All the witches from the past and present, and those from the future...she destroys as they come along.
5) since Sayaka still remember Madoka at the end, I assume that her friends will recover some memory of her when they die. Does that mean that in a certain way all timelines fused?
I would draw the timelines as something like this:

1)------------
Nothing--------
Nothing--------
Nothing--------
Nothing--------
6) --------------------------------------->

I know, I try to make things simpler.
I suppose we will learn more once the sequel comes out. I don't expect to see madoka or the other characters, but surely we will learn how this new world works.

[Snork]

Homura's wish creates the other timelines. Yes, I do think that without her wish no other timelines would have appeared.

Obviously. Every time she resets the month and starts taking different actions, the events no longer fall into the original timeline, thus creating a deviation.
Or maybe a timeline is even created at once. Homura wakes up with an upgraded set of memories every time. In the picture of the world, it is a deviation in itself.

5) since Sayaka still remember Madoka at the end, I assume that her friends will recover some memory of her when they die. Does that mean that in a certain way all timelines fused?

Either that, or time and timelines really stop mattering once you die.

I don't expect to see madoka or the other characters

Madoka is at least featured on Vol 2 cover (and may be well present in Homura's flashbacks/daydreaming, if they care to show us something like that). But what do you mean by other characters? Going by the synopsis we have, Kyouko, Mami and Homura seem to be more than background props in Oriko's story.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Snork

The audition scene is curious in that aspect: Madoka's ability to view the future of negated timelines may stem from her infiltration to all of them (and this might also suggest that even if her existence has NOT extended into infinite future at once, she may sense/imagine possible branchings and alterations revolving around the magical girls she visits - "worlds that may come to be"), but does she just demonstrate it to other souls, or do they possess the same ability by default, since their existence is now beyond time as well?

Existence beyond time would bring up yet another question: does a soul of a Puella Magi regain the memories of previous negated timelines? Or will Sayaka have to get reacquainted to Madoka, not realizing that the pink-haired valkyrie used to be her dearest friend? and without Madoka's help, will she never know of her repeated sacrifices for Kamijou's health, her repeated denial of the results and the tearful acceptance of them in the aforesaid audition scene, and of what Kyouko felt and did for her in all those previous lives?

Even though the Sayaka of the final timeline would presumably not remember Madoka (any more than Mami or Kyoko do), the audition scene shows Sayaka and Madoka to be familiar with the most intimate aspects of Sayaka's earlier life, in the way that only close friends can be. I speculate that the different levels of existence you describe (bound by time versus transcending time) inhere within the individual, so that Sayaka's conscious mind does not know Madoka, but her soul remembers everything. Here I'm remembering what Hitomi tells Madoka in the first episode, to explain Madoka's recollection of Homura, about "you still have an impression of her deep in your heart." In the audition scene we see how death returns Sayaka to the deep memories of her heart, which include her memories of Madoka from the previous timelines. So I don't think Madoka reacquaints herself with Sayaka; rather, Sayaka gets reacquainted with her own deep self.

Your distinction between projected Madoka and eternal Madoka gets at a curious distinction in Madoka's new role as an intermediary for MGs at the moment of death. The projected Madoka appears to the MG at their last moment of life, to take away the impurity of the soul gems, and to allow the girls to die without becoming witches. That role seems to be confined to the side of the living. But with Sayaka, we see Madoka on the other side, with the soul that has died and is now looking back at life before going on to wherever souls go on to (arguably the eternal Tokyo where Mami and Kyoko have tea and cake with Madoka after she makes herr wish). Here Madoka's role is quite different: she seems to act as a psychopomp, who conducts Sayaka's soul from this world to the world after death.

Is this Madoka's function for all magical girls, or even all humanity, or is it a one-shot done just for Sayaka since Sayaka is her friend? It's hard to be sure. But I take from Madoka's last words to Homura--"Sorry, but I have to go meet everyone. / I'm sure I'll meet you again, too"--an allusion to her new role as the conductor of souls into the afterlife, and that she will meet Homura again upon her eventual death.

Originally Posted by Snork

And that would be credible - we experience the timeline BEFORE her appearance and intervention. That's the only perspective you can base this whole show upon.

With episode 10, the viewer's experience of the narrative is precisely to discover that all the previous episodes exist in the context of Homura's interventions in time. Once we know that we can go back, rewatch the episodes, and see the signs of that later revelation already written into the script. The simple linear experience of the initial episodes exists precisely to be reconfigured and recontextualized by what we learn later. To use your words, the experience of the future dislocating the past is the only perspective you can base the final episodes upon (and retrospectively, all of them).

[mols]

Originally Posted by Snork

Madoka is at least featured on Vol 2 cover (and may be well present in Homura's flashbacks/daydreaming, if they care to show us something like that). But what do you mean by other characters? Going by the synopsis we have, Kyouko, Mami and Homura seem to be more than background props in Oriko's story.

oh, sorry, my mistake then. That's great, if kyoko and Mami are active characters, then surely we will learn, in some way, how they met Sayaka etc etc and thus we will be able to imagine the differences between the world pre madoka's wish and the new world...

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

Even though the Sayaka of the final timeline would presumably not remember Madoka (any more than Mami or Kyoko do), the audition scene shows Sayaka and Madoka to be familiar with the most intimate aspects of Sayaka's earlier life, in the way that only close friends can be. I speculate that the different levels of existence you describe (bound by time versus transcending time) inhere within the individual, so that Sayaka's conscious mind does not know Madoka, but her soul remembers everything. Here I'm remembering what Hitomi tells Madoka in the first episode, to explain Madoka's recollection of Homura, about "you still have an impression of her deep in your heart." In the audition scene we see how death returns Sayaka to the deep memories of her heart, which include her memories of Madoka from the previous timelines. So I don't think Madoka reacquaints herself with Sayaka; rather, Sayaka gets reacquainted with her own deep self.

Your distinction between projected Madoka and eternal Madoka gets at a curious distinction in Madoka's new role as an intermediary for MGs at the moment of death. The projected Madoka appears to the MG at their last moment of life, to take away the impurity of the soul gems, and to allow the girls to die without becoming witches. That role seems to be confined to the side of the living. But with Sayaka, we see Madoka on the other side, with the soul that has died and is now looking back at life before going on to wherever souls go on to (arguably the eternal Tokyo where Mami and Kyoko have tea and cake with Madoka after she makes herr wish). Here Madoka's role is quite different: she seems to act as a psychopomp, who conducts Sayaka's soul from this world to the world after death.

I got the impression that the final timeline was a mix of the others:Sayaka was a mahou shoujo, Mami was still alive (so Sayaka made her wish before her death like in the past timelines), Kyouko was also with them, but had had her issues with Sayaka (like in the last timeline) ... and when Sayaka died, she remembered Madoka, and I took that as meaning that the Sayaka that died was somehow the Sayaka of the last timeline.
But now I ask myself, shouldn't all her friends remember her then?
The only difference between Sayaka and Kyouko and Mami is that Madoka knew Sayaka before she met the other girls. If I am not mistaken madoka met those girls afterwards, closer to the WN (1 month before more or less?). Madoka had a greater impact on Sayaka. Similar to the mark she left on her family.

I'd like to think that Kyouko and Mami will also remember something of her since in other timelines they met her. And so they'll remember when they die.

bah, so much speculation, I really hope the sequel will answer some of these questions. For starters, if there are symptoms that Mami and Kyouko might remember Madoka, then we can assume that the timelines did fuse,in some way or the other.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by mols

oh, sorry, my mistake then. That's great, if kyoko and Mami are active characters, then surely we will learn, in some way, how they met Sayaka etc etc and thus we will be able to imagine the differences between the world pre madoka's wish and the new world...

This is all assuming that Oriko is indeed a sequel. While that is appearing to be a likely case, unless I'm mistaken, we've yet to get an official confirmation that that is the case.

[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by mols

I got the impression that the final timeline was a mix of the others.

I go with the idea others have suggested that the final timeline is the way things would have been had witches never existed, per Madoka's wish. Thus Madoka doesn't exist, Mami is alive since Charlotte never eats her, Sayaka doesn't turn into Octavia, and so Kyoko is also alive since she never dies to keep Sayaka company. It all fits very cleanly.

[mols]

Originally Posted by Akashin

This is all assuming that Oriko is indeed a sequel. While that is appearing to be a likely case, unless I'm mistaken, we've yet to get an official confirmation that that is the case.

I only found that it is going to be a sequel on wikipedia...and the source they link is this http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/ sadly my Japanese doesn't reach the necessary level to be able to confirm ar even say anything.

Originally Posted by hyperborealis

I go with the idea others have suggested that the final timeline is the way things would have been had witches never existed, per Madoka's wish. Thus Madoka doesn't exist, Mami is alive since Charlotte never eats her, Sayaka doesn't turn into Octavia, and so Kyoko is also alive since she never dies to keep Sayaka company. It all fits very cleanly.

Yes, that is what I think too. Except for the fact that Sayaka knew/recognized Madoka. So something of the previous timelines must be lingering on those close to Madoka.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by mols

I only found that it is going to be a sequel on wikipedia...and the source they link is this http://www.dokidokivisual.com/madokamagica/ sadly my Japanese doesn't reach the necessary level to be able to confirm ar even say anything.

The Puella Magi wiki only says things that strongly hint at a sequel (which match what I've heard tossed around here), not outright confirm that. My Japanese is dismal (read: nonexistent) so I can't vouch for the source you linked, but if it says something more telling I'd be glad to know.

[mols]

Originally Posted by Akashin

The Puella Magi wiki only says things that strongly hint at a sequel (which match what I've heard tossed around here), not outright confirm that. My Japanese is dismal (read: nonexistent) so I can't vouch for the source you linked, but if it says something more telling I'd be glad to know.

I hope it is a sequel. And I hope that whatever it is, it is actually well thought and will make sense...
I do study Japanese, but I don't think my teacher will be willing to translate this site...

[SagaraSouske]

Here are my thoughts about the paradox argument of whether or not future Madoka effected Homura in anyway.

First, there are a lot more then 5 time lines. Eps 10 only showed 5 due to time constraints. It will take a hell of lot more then 5 repetitions to build up the power potential to ascend to godhood.

Second, I think when the wish is activated, the old time lines from Madoka and Homura's past cease to exist. What Madoka did was creating a new universe with all timelines matching those from the old except that she prevents the MGs from turning into witches and thus effectively made all of them new timelines. The God Madoka battle against the Ultimate Witch Madoka ending in white light/explosion is symbolic of destruction and recreation of the new universe.

Third, most importantly, I think this story has two main characters: Madoka AND Homura. Madoka represents hope and Homura represents love. It was in Homura's love (which transcends both romantic and platonic love) for Madoka that give her the strength to suffer through countless time loops with her wish. If she has faltered, Madoka would never build up enough potential to remake the universe. It was Homura's strength born out of her love that first made an impossibility possible through her time travel wish. Madoka realized this in the final time line and accepted that love from Homura and decided to be a harbinger of hope to remove all the despair generated by the witch system. That realization came about because of QB's revelation that allowed her see into all time lines and saw what Homura has done. It was precisely due to Madoka seeing it is possible to fight an eternal and hopeless battle and stay determined and sane as Homura have done, she was able to gather the will to make her wish. Thus, Homura's infinite time loops are crucial in both building enough energy for Madoka to use and strengthening her will to make that wish. If the future Madoka effected Homura in anyway, it will cheapen the impact of both characters and what they represent.

Homura and Madoka reminds me of Babydoll from Sucker Punch(TM). She was put into a hopeless situation and yet determine to challenge impossible odds and had the strength of will to carry through with her plan (which required her to sacrifice her body and later her mind). When everyone else gave into despair, one first stood up against it and persist in her struggle that paved the way for another to be able to not only stand against but also destroy it by bringing hope to all those who fell into despair. Both stories are a triumph of human spirit.

[mols]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

Here are my thoughts about the paradox argument of whether or not future Madoka effected Homura in anyway.

First, there are a lot more then 5 time lines. Eps 10 only showed 5 due to time constraints. It will take a hell of lot more then 5 repetitions to build up the power potential to ascend to godhood.

Second, I think when the wish is activated, the old time lines from Madoka and Homura's past cease to exist. What Madoka did was creating a new universe with all timelines matching those from the old except that she prevents the MGs from turning into witches and thus effectively made all of them new timelines. The God Madoka battle against the Ultimate Witch Madoka ending in white light/explosion is symbolic of destruction and recreation of the new universe.

I agree,
but again, something about her past remains in Sayaka and family...

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by mols

I hope it is a sequel. And I hope that whatever it is, it is actually well thought and will make sense...
I do study Japanese, but I don't think my teacher will be willing to translate this site...

As far as I know the script was written by Urobuchi, so we can at least count on it being worthwhile to read.

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

Here are my thoughts about the paradox argument of whether or not future Madoka effected Homura in anyway.

First, there are a lot more then 5 time lines. Eps 10 only showed 5 due to time constraints. It will take a hell of lot more then 5 repetitions to build up the power potential to ascend to godhood.

Eh, I have trouble seeing how more than five timelines would work, for relatively simple reasons. First of all, we know beyond a shred of doubt that the timeline where Homura first healed her eyes if the fourth. That said, while it is technically possible that there were unseen timelines between that one and the one the timeline that the series takes place in, you then have to raise the question of why Madoka dreamed of the fourth timeline specifically. Whereas if the fourth was the last timeline before the series proper you can dismiss it as her dream being a remnant of the previous timeline ending and the new one starting; much easier to swallow that way.

Also, since main timeline Madoka is essentially shouldering the potential of five girls at once (her own, plus the four previous Madokas), her potential being God-like isn't much of a stretch. Plus it's kind of ironically in line with the staple MG trope of friendship is power; just, instead of five girls working together to accomplish anything, it's five copies of the same girl banding together to rip apart the universe.

Second, I think when the wish is activated, the old time lines from Madoka and Homura's past cease to exist. What Madoka did was creating a new universe with all timelines matching those from the old except that she prevents the MGs from turning into witches and thus effectively made all of them new timelines. The God Madoka battle against the Ultimate Witch Madoka ending in white light/explosion is symbolic of destruction and recreation of the new universe.

I'm pretty sure that Madoka actually said something along the lines of having to destroy "this future" (still haven't rewatched the episode, so I can't confirm this line nor its possible context), so I have no trouble believing that she destroyed the present universe to reconstruct the new one. Whether she did so with creating a mish-mash of the previous timelines in mind or not, I can't say; it's possible, I suppose.

Third, most importantly, I think this story has two main characters: Madoka AND Homura. Madoka represents hope and Homura represents love. It was in Homura's love (which transcends both romantic and platonic love) for Madoka that give her the strength to suffer through countless time loops with her wish. If she has faltered, Madoka would never build up enough potential to remake the universe. It was Homura's strength born out of her love that first made an impossibility possible through her time travel wish. Madoka realized this in the final time line and accepted that love from Homura and decided to be a harbinger of hope to remove all the despair generated by the witch system. That realization came about because of QB's revelation that allowed her see into all time lines and saw what Homura has done. It was precisely due to Madoka seeing it is possible to fight an eternal and hopeless battle and stay determined and sane as Homura have done, she was able to gather the will to make her wish. Thus, Homura's infinite time loops are crucial in both building enough energy for Madoka to use and strengthening her will to make that wish. If the future Madoka effected Homura in anyway, it will cheapen the impact of both characters and what they represent.

Homura and Madoka reminds me of Babydoll from Sucker Punch(TM). She was put into a hopeless situation and yet determine to challenge impossible odds and had the strength of will to carry through with her plan (which required her to sacrifice her body and later her mind). When everyone else gave into despair, one first stood up against it and persist in her struggle that paved the way for another to be able to not only stand against but also destroy it by bringing hope to all those who fell into despair. Both stories are a triumph of human spirit.

Haven't seen Sucker Punch, so I can't speak on that. As for the rest, as a thematic argument I perfectly agree that future Madoka helping Homura would cheapen it, but as a story argument it's more debatable. Still I mostly agree here, so I won't get into that.

[mols]

Originally Posted by Akashin

As far as I know the script was written by Urobuchi, so we can at least count on it being worthwhile to read.



Eh, I have trouble seeing how more than five timelines would work, for relatively simple reasons. First of all, we know beyond a shred of doubt that the timeline where Homura first healed her eyes if the fourth. That said, while it is technically possible that there were unseen timelines between that one and the one the timeline that the series takes place in, you then have to raise the question of why Madoka dreamed of the fourth timeline specifically. Whereas if the fourth was the last timeline before the series proper you can dismiss it as her dream being a remnant of the previous timeline ending and the new one starting; much easier to swallow that way.

Nice to know that it is going to be the same writer.

For the more than 5 timelines, I have no problem with that. It could have been 10 time loops before she fixed her eyes... why not? remember how many weapons she managed to steal.

[Akashin]

Originally Posted by mols

Nice to know that it is going to be the same writer.

For the more than 5 timelines, I have no problem with that. It could have been 10 time loops before she fixed her eyes... why not? remember how many weapons she managed to steal.

True. And I never said it was impossible, just unlikely. We never got any hint of there being more than five, and since the sequence of timelines seem to work perfectly fine as is (timeline 3's disastrous ending providing the perfect opening to timeline 4, for example), I see no reason to assume there's more than what is shown.

[mols]

Originally Posted by Akashin

True. And I never said it was impossible, just unlikely. We never got any hint of there being more than five, and since the sequence of timelines seem to work perfectly fine as is (timeline 3's disastrous ending providing the perfect opening to timeline 4, for example), I see no reason to assume there's more than what is shown.

True...
I should re watch the series...someday. I really lack enough time. Seeing the series once was difficult (besides, I started watching the day the show ended because I though it was just a magical girl show... I got tricked anyway because I expected something less dramatic lol)

Something I found annoying, and has nothing to do with loops and such was the lack of communication between the girls. I know that explaining yourself properly can be a pain in the ass, but come on!

I can only remember one particular example: Sayaka saying that homura let mami die, and that only appeared after her death. An Madoka staying quiet...she knew Homura had been trapped by Mami and yet did not explain.

I know there were other moments where I expected some kind of explanation from the characters. Or some lying like:"come on Sayaka, is almost like being alive, just your soul is in a gem, no problem with that cheer up!"

Or what kind of person goes out of the hospital without calling/visiting a friend that visited you almost daily??

...maybe it is because I am not an anime character and because I am much older???

[RDF2050]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by mols

True...
I should re watch the series...someday. I really lack enough time. Seeing the series once was difficult (besides, I started watching the day the show ended because I though it was just a magical girl show... I got tricked anyway because I expected something less dramatic lol)

Something I found annoying, and has nothing to do with loops and such was the lack of communication between the girls. I know that explaining yourself properly can be a pain in the ass, but come on!

I can only remember one particular example: Sayaka saying that homura let mami die, and that only appeared after her death. An Madoka staying quiet...she knew Homura had been trapped by Mami and yet did not explain.

I know there were other moments where I expected some kind of explanation from the characters. Or some lying like:"come on Sayaka, is almost like being alive, just your soul is in a gem, no problem with that cheer up!"

This is hard to tell because the situation was kinda hard but I completely agree with what you just said. Miscommunication cause a lot misunderstanding, despair and hatred between the girls. The particular example you show is perfect. Unless I am not mistaking, Madoka saw Homaru was busy trying to get herself out of a trap Mami put to her. Madoka should at least inform or tell Saya why she can't rescue her. However, the situation wasn't helping at all. They were scared of what they were seeing. By Mami dying in front of their eyes, makes them so scared to even Madoka thing about something else.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by mols

...maybe it is because I am not an anime character and because I am much older???

I believe that's the main reason your opinion is that way. As older we get, we use the following 4 factors to base our comments or opinions about something.

1. Experience: I believe this is #1 because you make assumptions base on your common knowledge that you saw, read or felt before.
2. Emotions: Can really affect us the way we think about something that has direct impact on us.
   
3. Logic: When you believe it just make senses.
   
4. Facts: When all the evidence are present and determine your finals thoughts about an event.

These factors can affect the point of view of something during our life. This is why it influence our final thoughts of anything. Because you can't be an anime character, you base your point of view base on the four factors above. Anime characters can be relate to you somehow but never be the exact thing because they are no real. They are able to show human characteristics, behaviors or emotions but still has a imaginary element that puts difference between reality and imagination.

[Arju1712]

When Madoka shoulders the grief of a magical girl, does the magical girl die, when it was still the old system? After she changed the system, what does Kyuubey harvest, a magical girl's grief or curses?