AnimeSuki Forums

S.Freedom · 2013-09-26, 21:50

@Kuroi Hadou Details, details, folks really shouldn't be so hung up on them.

@monster Really "first alliance vs plant war", I wonder why they changed it from "first bloody valentine war".

Kuroi Hadou · 2013-09-26, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Really "first alliance vs plant war", I wonder why they changed it from "first bloody valentine war".

Because the former sounds like the PLANTS are complete victims and it's not a total curb-stomping by the latter?

monster · 2013-09-26, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Really "first alliance vs plant war", I wonder why they changed it from "first bloody valentine war".

Well, Bloody Valentine referred to the first major battle of SEED's war that happened on Valentine's Day. The name doesn't really apply to the war in Destiny.

This new name is more descriptive of the nature of the conflict and connects the two wars. In that sense, it's a good name, even if it may be a bit dull compared to the original name.

Rising Dragon · 2013-09-26, 22:16

First Alliance vs. PLANT War is likely what it's referred to in official documentation among bureaucracy, while the Bloody Valentine War is likely what it's called by the people and the soldiers who fought in it.

S.Freedom · 2013-09-26, 22:24

I suppose you guys are right. It just seems odd that they'd wait all these years to change the name of said war. Why wouldn't they do it during Destiny or just after?

While I know it's not the case, it sorta feels like the winner writing the history so to speak. As if somebody didn't like the sound of the first "name" and decided to be more PC about it.

Kuroi Hadou · 2013-09-26, 22:39

It's probably just a way to distance Orb's involvement in the war.

Aquaman OS · 2013-09-26, 22:53

Was it ever officially called the 1st and 2nd Bloody Valentine Wars though?

Or is that just what Gundam wiki decided to call it?

Rising Dragon · 2013-09-26, 23:00

I remember several mentions of both the Bloody Valentine Incident and the Bloody Valentine War during SEED, typically during the intro narration and clip show episodes.

monster · 2013-09-26, 23:39

I don't think it was ever referred to as "First" since there is no second bloody Valentine incident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

It's probably just a way to distance Orb's involvement in the war.

Bloody Valentine doesn't have anything to do with Orb either. In fact, when you say Alliance, Orb was technically a part of the Alliance in both wars. In SEED, by virtue of being annexed by the Atlantic Federation.

Aquaman OS · 2013-09-26, 23:45

I'm almost positive the war in Destiny was never offiically called the 2nd Bloody Valentine war. The Junius Seven incident was never called the 2nd Bloody Valentine either (except possibly in passing as an example). Heck that whole thing was quickly forgotten in favor of Logos and later the Destiny Plan.

If anything it was 3 seperate wars thanks to the constant instability of the sides, since a bunch of anti Logos EA sided with Zaft when Logos was outed, where as anti Destiny Plan Zaft and EA sided with Orb/Terminal later on.

Rising Dragon · 2013-09-26, 23:54

The second Junius Seven Incident was called the Break the World Incident, which is why you never heard of it referred to as the Second Bloody Valentine.

Aquaman OS · 2013-09-27, 01:57

And the 2nd war wasn't refered to as the "Break the World" War?

Skye629 · 2013-09-27, 02:22

Eh I do remember the First war being referred to as the Bloody Valentine War in the show and narrative due to the incident which caused it

As for Destiny and the "Second" I dont recall any official mentions of it being called that in the show

I would say the name as "Second" though would be ok for simplicities sake, same people. starting up the same war (through a "preemptive attack"), with everything from the first war boiling over. Lazy name choice, but as far as civilians in the universe go its easy to follow

monster · 2013-09-27, 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye629

Eh I do remember the First war being referred to as the Bloody Valentine War in the show and narrative due to the incident which caused it

The EA technically declared war on the PLANTs several days before due to the PLANTs halting resource exports to Earth. The Bloody Valentine incident happened during the first battle of that war.

The attempted nuclear attack in Destiny which was stopped by the Neutron Stampeder would've been the second war's version of the Bloody Valentine incident.

brightman · 2013-09-27, 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I remember several mentions of both the Bloody Valentine Incident and the Bloody Valentine War during SEED, typically during the intro narration and clip show episodes.

Bloody Valentine War is strictly a Wikipedia creation. There's no such thing in official materials. It's not in the show either. Believe me, I looked into this ten years ago when this term first popped up.

2nd Bloody Valentine War is even more absurd of a Wikipedia creation.

Official Japanese material always referred to both as Earth-ZAFT/PLANT War or something to that effect

monster · 2013-09-27, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightman

Bloody Valentine War is strictly a Wikipedia creation. There's no such thing in official materials. It's not in the show either. Believe me, I looked into this ten years ago when this term first popped up.

2nd Bloody Valentine War is even more absurd of a Wikipedia creation.

Official Japanese material always referred to both as Earth-ZAFT/PLANT War or something to that effect

So the name only refers to the incident, then? I guess that makes sense.

Which means this new name isn't new after all, just the name people have forgotten/never known about.

Mad Pierrot · 2013-09-27, 14:27

Even the wikia refers to the conflicts as Bloody Valentine War and Second Bloody Valentine War. I wonder where they got those names.

S.Freedom · 2013-09-27, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordol

info from Ootori manual:
-The Drop Tanks can release Mirage Colloid particles in the wind to act as a stealth support system

On a slightly different note and because I overlooked it because of the railgun issue.

Why would morganrate design much less install a Mirage Colloid stealth system. Especially when it 1)doesn't suit the fighting style of the intended pilot(Cagalli) and 2)would be against the treaty that ended the first war?

monster · 2013-09-27, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

Why would morganrate design much less install a Mirage Colloid stealth system. Especially when it 1)doesn't suit the fighting style of the intended pilot(Cagalli) and 2)would be against the treaty that ended the first war?

They probably built it before the treaty was finalized. And when it was, the pack and the Freedom were stored away.

Aquaman OS · 2013-09-27, 16:05

It was supposedly developed with the Rouge, in the last stretch of the war before the treaty and they just tossed it into storage with AA and Freedom afterwards, not expecting to have to use it again. They're fielding it now because....why not? The treaty's already out the window and they're fielding a nuclear powered MS along with it anyway.

I agree it seems needlessly thrown in however. They're making the Rouge look TOO impressive and powerful. It's supposed to be an only barely not obsolete machine that's going to be abandoned soon in the fact of the later half Destiny units.

And it's never gonna use half these weapons anyway.

2013-09-26, 22:16	Link #9404
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	First Alliance vs. PLANT War is likely what it's referred to in official documentation among bureaucracy, while the Bloody Valentine War is likely what it's called by the people and the soldiers who fought in it. __________________

2013-09-26, 22:39	Link #9406
Kuroi Hadou Dark Energy Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: United States	It's probably just a way to distance Orb's involvement in the war. __________________

2013-09-26, 23:00	Link #9408
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I remember several mentions of both the Bloody Valentine Incident and the Bloody Valentine War during SEED, typically during the intro narration and clip show episodes. __________________

2013-09-26, 23:54	Link #9411
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	The second Junius Seven Incident was called the Break the World Incident, which is why you never heard of it referred to as the Second Bloody Valentine. __________________

2013-09-26, 21:50	Link #9401
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	@Kuroi Hadou Details, details, folks really shouldn't be so hung up on them. @monster Really "first alliance vs plant war", I wonder why they changed it from "first bloody valentine war".

2013-09-26, 22:24	Link #9405
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	I suppose you guys are right. It just seems odd that they'd wait all these years to change the name of said war. Why wouldn't they do it during Destiny or just after? While I know it's not the case, it sorta feels like the winner writing the history so to speak. As if somebody didn't like the sound of the first "name" and decided to be more PC about it.

2013-09-26, 22:53	Link #9407
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Was it ever officially called the 1st and 2nd Bloody Valentine Wars though? Or is that just what Gundam wiki decided to call it?

2013-09-26, 23:45	Link #9410
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	I'm almost positive the war in Destiny was never offiically called the 2nd Bloody Valentine war. The Junius Seven incident was never called the 2nd Bloody Valentine either (except possibly in passing as an example). Heck that whole thing was quickly forgotten in favor of Logos and later the Destiny Plan. If anything it was 3 seperate wars thanks to the constant instability of the sides, since a bunch of anti Logos EA sided with Zaft when Logos was outed, where as anti Destiny Plan Zaft and EA sided with Orb/Terminal later on.

2013-09-27, 01:57	Link #9412
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	And the 2nd war wasn't refered to as the "Break the World" War?

2013-09-27, 02:22	Link #9413
Skye629 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Eh I do remember the First war being referred to as the Bloody Valentine War in the show and narrative due to the incident which caused it As for Destiny and the "Second" I dont recall any official mentions of it being called that in the show I would say the name as "Second" though would be ok for simplicities sake, same people. starting up the same war (through a "preemptive attack"), with everything from the first war boiling over. Lazy name choice, but as far as civilians in the universe go its easy to follow

2013-09-27, 14:27	Link #9417
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 33	Even the wikia refers to the conflicts as Bloody Valentine War and Second Bloody Valentine War. I wonder where they got those names.

2013-09-27, 16:05	Link #9420
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	It was supposedly developed with the Rouge, in the last stretch of the war before the treaty and they just tossed it into storage with AA and Freedom afterwards, not expecting to have to use it again. They're fielding it now because....why not? The treaty's already out the window and they're fielding a nuclear powered MS along with it anyway. I agree it seems needlessly thrown in however. They're making the Rouge look TOO impressive and powerful. It's supposed to be an only barely not obsolete machine that's going to be abandoned soon in the fact of the later half Destiny units. And it's never gonna use half these weapons anyway.