AnimeSuki Forums

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-11-24, 07:06

The thing is why even cut....

Her conceptual attack comes from screwing causality to erase stuff from existence and that can affect the Log Domain

So why even melee....Furthermore, the cutting isn't even anything more than physical (gravity and friction manipulation...although it is based on the "future" aspect of her Shinken....How does that even work....cutting through "future"...)

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-11-24, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Lily

Maybe, it's a point of this whole 'holding your Shinken'. Takase mentioned that Eternal won't die as long as he/she will keep holding it.

And since Mikage's Shinken is his...head, then maybe cutting his head is equivalent to 'abandoning his Shinken'.

And I guess it's not possible for this Mikage to be a bunshin(Eternal's dividing his Shinken)?

If you read the line in inverted commas it says that she used the causality manip to divest Mikage of his Shinken by making him voluntarily give it up

So yeah...it takes more than just cutting his head off it seems...

Golden Lily · 2014-11-24, 07:23

Huh, I don't think 'holding your Shinken' is in the sense physical. I think it's more like maintaining conceptual bond/contract between Eternal and Shinken (iirc, Shun got full body bust in the EnA, yet Takase's confirmed he's alive since he kept on 'holding' his Shinken). But in that case, cutting Mikage's heads truly doesn't make sense.

But I don't think this's as simple as 'navigating through Log Domain and erasing', if it was that simple then she could do this with any Law Eternal, Temuorin included.

That way we can wonder why Rogas just won't go and wipe Law Eternals xp Since, bar Myuugi, there's no challenge for him there.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-11-24, 07:26

That's why...should really ask Takase on Twitter if Tokimi's causality hax is limited to melee range

Zetsuen_no_Myuu · 2014-11-24, 09:11

Takase is continuing what EnA established. Any sane Eternal would sure they have insurances in check so they won't die even if they are killed. For the insurance to work, an Eternal must be holding their shinken or else they won't be able to ride the mana flow back. Holding here should mean in a physical sense since in EnA, letting go of one's shinken results in being depowered. Some Eternals hold their shinken in their own hammerspace and, perhaps, they're linked to it until they materialize their shinken to physically hold it.

About Shun, his whole body became a shinken. Destruction of his body can let him flow to wherever he set his insurance at. It can be explained that way.

About Tokimi's cutting....Wakarimasen~~ But, well, let's see. Say she can forcibly bring the past and future that can and/or cannot possibly exist by ignoring the present outcomes. In context. if Tokimi used that against other Eternals, to her sword, it can be either they never become an Eternal in the past or the future where they are completely and utterly destroyed become realized.

In either case, the present outcome (death through killing) bypasses the Eternal's existence, so they will "die" for good regardless if they have insurances and regardless if they are supposed to be immune to causality. Of course, this is only possible with 時逆's power, which allows Tokimi to manipulate the Log Domain for Eternals.

時逆 is normally sealed because its power is dangerous enough to cause damage to the Log Domain. Tokimi doesn't use her time abilities on a large scale often because it causes distortions in the world she uses them in. Enough distortions will cause the world to be destroyed. The same probably applies to using 時逆 to manipulate the Log Domain, which might end up destroy Shinken Universe instead given enough damage. Maybe the reason why she uses her sword to kill when using 時逆's power is due to wanting to avoid causing large damage to the Log Domain.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-11-24, 10:11

Perhaps it's Eternal dependent?

Strangely the finishing blow against Mikage is using the causality manipulation to make it so that he gave up his own Shinken (So he never became an Eternal and could thus be erased from existence)....that definitely isn't simple physical separation of the Shinken

In any case, regarding Tokimi's range, I actually tweeted Takase lolol...let's se if he replies ahaha

EDIT: Lol he replied...that was fast...are Japanese game writers/ mangaka/ artistes etc permanently glued to Twitter or what lol

He says that essentially, her range is limited due to collateral damage risk yes...... Large scale use apparently includes usage over vast degrees of separation as well

https://twitter.com/naofumi_takase/s...00083812294656

It seems she could nuke everything but even just that will strain the Log Domain too much...Causality hacking too, is destructive to the Shinken-verse

Which is also why she melee-ed Mikage and channeled her attack through the sword to eke out the slimmest of victories instead of erasing him outright from the get go.

Which makes you wonder how Tier 1s function without imploding the Shinken verse each time they move

shmaster · 2014-11-24, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Hmm...if that's the case why even attack Mikage at all? Why not just erase him there and then?

Ok granted one of his heads is his Shinken but can't she just override that info from far? No need to slice his heads off no?

Oh BTW.....that also means Mikage is dead and gone

One major Law Court player gone before Eien Shinken 3 even started....wow.....@@

Because:
1. Mikage's head is literally his sword, thus he can't die unless you cut that off first.
2. His sword can nullify the power of the other swords.

In the end, Tokimi has no way to kill him off so she has to do some round away hacking on the Log Domain to make him renounce his own sword.
She won't hack the log domain until she has no other way, as doing so has the risk to bug out or damage the log domain. If that happens, no body wins.

Edit- I guess the damage to lof domain is indeed pretty consequential judging by that tweet. But that's one fragile universe they live in.

Golden Lily · 2014-11-24, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Because:
1. Mikage's head is literally his sword, thus he can't die unless you cut that off first.

Heh, called it.

Quote:

But that's one fragile universe they live in.

Or maybe Eternals are 2stronk2furious.
エターナルたちより高次元存在と仮定した『マルチヴァース・オーバーロード』がいる高次元宇宙で繋がっています。

Zetsuen_no_Myuu · 2014-11-24, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Perhaps it's Eternal dependent?

Strangely the finishing blow against Mikage is using the causality manipulation to make it so that he gave up his own Shinken (So he never became an Eternal and could thus be erased from existence)....that definitely isn't simple physical separation of the Shinken

In any case, regarding Tokimi's range, I actually tweeted Takase lolol...let's se if he replies ahaha

EDIT: Lol he replied...that was fast...are Japanese game writers/ mangaka/ artistes etc permanently glued to Twitter or what lol

He says that essentially, her range is limited due to collateral damage risk yes...... Large scale use apparently includes usage over vast degrees of separation as well

https://twitter.com/naofumi_takase/s...00083812294656

It seems she could nuke everything but even just that will strain the Log Domain too much...Causality hacking too, is destructive to the Shinken-verse

Which is also why she melee-ed Mikage and channeled her attack through the sword to eke out the slimmest of victories instead of erasing him outright from the get go.

Which makes you wonder how Tier 1s function without imploding the Shinken verse each time they move

I totally called it. ^

It makes sense for the cosmos to be pretty fragile. The singular sword split into the 3 CBs, and then from them, countless universes came forth. All the mana has been dispersed and keeps being dispersed as the cosmos expands. Law Eternals go around consuming and destroying worlds in order to let the mana flow back to where it originated, which is the three CBs. And if they are true to their word, they would need to destroy at least two CBs to have the all the mana flow back to form its once completed state (singular sword).

Cosmic Eagle · 2015-01-21, 08:16

https://twitter.com/naofumi_takase/s...79169991258112

GREAT NEWS!

New company Everlasting set up with new releases scheduled.

With this, we are much closer to the relaunch of the Eien Shinken game series!

Zetsuen_no_Myuu · 2015-01-21, 09:30

Best news. So, it's named Everlasting? Euphoria is PLEASED. I wonder if this means Xuse will join up with Eternal to release under Everlasting, or maybe that isn't the case at all.

I assume you already have a copy of Spirits Guide 3, Cosmic. Am I right? I really curious here, who's the girl in the last profile of the book? It's the loli-looking black and blue mana Eternal with wings at her feet and back and she has a shinken that almost looks like Aselia's sword. She has extra stats compared to the rest too!

Cosmic Eagle · 2015-01-21, 10:00

Not yet.....

waiting for more stuffs from Japan to appear before I place an order in bulk with it

Zetsuen_no_Myuu · 2015-01-21, 10:25

Ah, alright.

Maybe I'll take a pic later...or maybe not. ^

shmaster · 2015-01-21, 11:44

My copy should be arriving within a week, along with the first two books.
Took me so long to finally get a hold of them.

Cosmic Eagle · 2015-01-21, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

My copy should be arriving within a week, along with the first two books.
Took me so long to finally get a hold of them.

WHHAT?!

The first two you haven't gotten yet since last year?! That is a really slow delivery....

shmaster · 2015-01-21, 12:26

You know Animate screwed up with my order back in November right?
So I have to place order somewhere else, and I am consolidating it with the stuff I ordered from Winter Comiket and Tora no Ana, which wouldn't arrive into the warehouse until the middle of January. So yeah, I just got all my stuff ready two days ago in the warehouse and get the international delivery going out yesterday.

shmaster · 2015-01-21, 19:35

Here is Takase's wall of text.
He has now fully divided the series into the old cannon and his cannon.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/naofumi_takase/touch/20150121/p1

Cosmic Eagle · 2015-01-21, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

You know Animate screwed up with my order back in November right?
So I have to place order somewhere else, and I am consolidating it with the stuff I ordered from Winter Comiket and Tora no Ana, which wouldn't arrive into the warehouse until the middle of January. So yeah, I just got all my stuff ready two days ago in the warehouse and get the international delivery going out yesterday.

That is still....quite a long while for them to sort into their warehouse...

shmaster · 2015-01-21, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

That is still....quite a long while for them to sort into their warehouse...

It is more about Tora no Ana orders takes time to wait, and I want to consolidate as much as possible to reduce cost.

Zetsuen_no_Myuu · 2015-01-21, 23:00

So, I did took pics with my ghetto cam. The second Eternal is the one new I was talking about. ^

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Here is Takase's wall of text.
He has now fully divided the series into the old cannon and his cannon.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/naofumi_takase/touch/20150121/p1

Interesting. The world line examples reminds of Steins;Gate. Basically, both versions are canon and fans can pick which version they like, huh?

2014-11-24, 07:06	Link #821
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	The thing is why even cut.... Her conceptual attack comes from screwing causality to erase stuff from existence and that can affect the Log Domain So why even melee....Furthermore, the cutting isn't even anything more than physical (gravity and friction manipulation...although it is based on the "future" aspect of her Shinken....How does that even work....cutting through "future"...) __________________

2014-11-24, 07:26	Link #824
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	That's why...should really ask Takase on Twitter if Tokimi's causality hax is limited to melee range __________________

2014-11-24, 10:11	Link #826
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Perhaps it's Eternal dependent? Strangely the finishing blow against Mikage is using the causality manipulation to make it so that he gave up his own Shinken (So he never became an Eternal and could thus be erased from existence)....that definitely isn't simple physical separation of the Shinken In any case, regarding Tokimi's range, I actually tweeted Takase lolol...let's se if he replies ahaha EDIT: Lol he replied...that was fast...are Japanese game writers/ mangaka/ artistes etc permanently glued to Twitter or what lol He says that essentially, her range is limited due to collateral damage risk yes...... Large scale use apparently includes usage over vast degrees of separation as well https://twitter.com/naofumi_takase/s...00083812294656 It seems she could nuke everything but even just that will strain the Log Domain too much...Causality hacking too, is destructive to the Shinken-verse Which is also why she melee-ed Mikage and channeled her attack through the sword to eke out the slimmest of victories instead of erasing him outright from the get go. Which makes you wonder how Tier 1s function without imploding the Shinken verse each time they move __________________ Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2014-11-24 at 10:29.

2015-01-21, 08:16	Link #830
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	https://twitter.com/naofumi_takase/s...79169991258112 GREAT NEWS! New company Everlasting set up with new releases scheduled. With this, we are much closer to the relaunch of the Eien Shinken game series! __________________

2015-01-21, 10:00	Link #832
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Not yet..... waiting for more stuffs from Japan to appear before I place an order in bulk with it __________________

2014-11-24, 07:23	Link #823
Golden Lily Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014	Huh, I don't think 'holding your Shinken' is in the sense physical. I think it's more like maintaining conceptual bond/contract between Eternal and Shinken (iirc, Shun got full body bust in the EnA, yet Takase's confirmed he's alive since he kept on 'holding' his Shinken). But in that case, cutting Mikage's heads truly doesn't make sense. But I don't think this's as simple as 'navigating through Log Domain and erasing', if it was that simple then she could do this with any Law Eternal, Temuorin included. That way we can wonder why Rogas just won't go and wipe Law Eternals xp Since, bar Myuugi, there's no challenge for him there.

2014-11-24, 09:11	Link #825
Zetsuen_no_Myuu ボクは、ボクを全て殺す Join Date: Sep 2008	Takase is continuing what EnA established. Any sane Eternal would sure they have insurances in check so they won't die even if they are killed. For the insurance to work, an Eternal must be holding their shinken or else they won't be able to ride the mana flow back. Holding here should mean in a physical sense since in EnA, letting go of one's shinken results in being depowered. Some Eternals hold their shinken in their own hammerspace and, perhaps, they're linked to it until they materialize their shinken to physically hold it. About Shun, his whole body became a shinken. Destruction of his body can let him flow to wherever he set his insurance at. It can be explained that way. About Tokimi's cutting....Wakarimasen~~ But, well, let's see. Say she can forcibly bring the past and future that can and/or cannot possibly exist by ignoring the present outcomes. In context. if Tokimi used that against other Eternals, to her sword, it can be either they never become an Eternal in the past or the future where they are completely and utterly destroyed become realized. In either case, the present outcome (death through killing) bypasses the Eternal's existence, so they will "die" for good regardless if they have insurances and regardless if they are supposed to be immune to causality. Of course, this is only possible with 時逆's power, which allows Tokimi to manipulate the Log Domain for Eternals. 時逆 is normally sealed because its power is dangerous enough to cause damage to the Log Domain. Tokimi doesn't use her time abilities on a large scale often because it causes distortions in the world she uses them in. Enough distortions will cause the world to be destroyed. The same probably applies to using 時逆 to manipulate the Log Domain, which might end up destroy Shinken Universe instead given enough damage. Maybe the reason why she uses her sword to kill when using 時逆's power is due to wanting to avoid causing large damage to the Log Domain.

2015-01-21, 09:30	Link #831
Zetsuen_no_Myuu ボクは、ボクを全て殺す Join Date: Sep 2008	Best news. So, it's named Everlasting? Euphoria is PLEASED. I wonder if this means Xuse will join up with Eternal to release under Everlasting, or maybe that isn't the case at all. I assume you already have a copy of Spirits Guide 3, Cosmic. Am I right? I really curious here, who's the girl in the last profile of the book? It's the loli-looking black and blue mana Eternal with wings at her feet and back and she has a shinken that almost looks like Aselia's sword. She has extra stats compared to the rest too!

2015-01-21, 10:25	Link #833
Zetsuen_no_Myuu ボクは、ボクを全て殺す Join Date: Sep 2008	Ah, alright. Maybe I'll take a pic later...or maybe not. ^

2015-01-21, 11:44	Link #834
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	My copy should be arriving within a week, along with the first two books. Took me so long to finally get a hold of them.

2015-01-21, 12:26	Link #836
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	You know Animate screwed up with my order back in November right? So I have to place order somewhere else, and I am consolidating it with the stuff I ordered from Winter Comiket and Tora no Ana, which wouldn't arrive into the warehouse until the middle of January. So yeah, I just got all my stuff ready two days ago in the warehouse and get the international delivery going out yesterday.

2015-01-21, 19:35	Link #837
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Here is Takase's wall of text. He has now fully divided the series into the old cannon and his cannon. http://d.hatena.ne.jp/naofumi_takase/touch/20150121/p1