Eden of the East - Episode 11 [END] Discussion / Poll

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Hmmm no closure whatsoever. I sure hope they tell the story more.

[Haak]

To be honest I agree with Izzy (sorry i forgot how to spell it and can't be arsed looking it up) and Jan-Poo with all the complaints but I've never believed in judging an anime completely until it's been finished, as the way I see it, it hasn't.

Best bit was when Hirasawa grabbed the laptop and said "RUN FOR IT!" That was freaking hilarious.

[izmosmolnar]

Originally Posted by Haak

To be honest I agree with Izzy (sorry i forgot how to spell it and can't be arsed looking it up) and Jan-Poo with all the complaints but I've never believed in judging an anime completely until it's been finished, as the way I see it, it hasn't.

Oh no, I'm not saying I believe that the story is finished as it is now, and the movies are going to be about a completely different thing, without touching any of the juicy issues.
I just think that I would have preferred the final episode to investigate some of the previous mysteries and try not to raise even more questions, plus not to try to be a mainly humorous episode (I've thought that's a SRS show with some jokes here and there, but the Humor Raito was over average amount now).

Altogether the final episode was just below my expectations. I think it was kinda weak comparing it to the rest of the series.
Additionally if that would have been the first episode I see, I would have thought it's just some kinda crazy Honey and Clover OVA with some scifi elements and a whole bunch of naked guys.

@Drobertbaker

Spoiler for speculating etc:

While your theory makes some sense (at least I believe you are probably on the right track), but I'm still not entirely convinced.
Why would he do that in America? Even if they arrest him, there's a possibility the US departments wouldn't announce it overseas so the NEETs would be still blamed. Wouldn't it makes more sense to try and storm the Japanese Imperial Palace for example? And why the US anyway? Why not the Buckingham Palace or Vatican?
And why he needed so much time to do that? (He was there between 2 week - a month). He doesn't need to live there for an extended time to figure out where the White House is .
Additionally that would also suggest that Saki really just coincidentally happened to be at the WH. Then why is he aiming at the WH while taking his clothes off? Is he expecting the White House to run away from him?
Plus how the hell did he know Saki is Japanese? There is a 4 lane street +2 pedestrian pavement between them, (about 20-30 meters, but I've never been to America, feel free to correct me) and he miraculously knew Saki is from the very same country. Just because one sees an Asian it's hell of a coincidence she's also a japanese just happening to be there, while he was about to make himself arrested.
Another interesting thing: If #1 was so keen to attempt to kill Pantsu, because he possessed a Selecao Phone (as I said in the previous episode thread, he revealed everything to Akira that Pantsu found out, so the only reason to run over him is to get #4's phone back), then why don't he tries to prevent #9 to make himself arrested and effectively provide #9's phone to the techies of the FBI and CIA? Surely they are resourceful enough to figure out it's function, and probably even go as far to interfere. Isn't that dangerous for someone who's trying to become Outside?

In a nutshell, I still think if he wanted to himself to arrested there are countless better ways to do that, than storming the White House naked holding a revolver. Why doesn't he use Juiz for that purpose for example?

Edit: Is there any info how long the 2 movies are going to be? 90 minutes or 120 minutes?

[MeoTwister5]

I could honestly wish I was even half the man Akira was. It takes balls the size of the sun to man it up, take the blame onto yourself and do everything you can just to save some ungrateful lives. You don't find a lot of men like that these days sadly.

As for Ohsugi, well he's just transformed into the very symbol of the ungrateful and gossiping lives of Japan Akira tried to save, the very same people who seem to be content at letting others do the dirty work for them but easily shout the curses when they don't exactly do a perfect job. Thanks Ohsugi for putting things into perspective!

I think I know the reason as to why Akira chose to use the help of the NEETs in shooting down the missles both times rather than do it himself: It's likely because he's trying to prove that a group of people can work together to help their nation rather than having only a single person do it all the time. When you think about it it's illogical to recruit masses of people when he has enough money to have it done. However, it becomes clear when you have a bigger reason for wanting people involved. Akira is trying to prove that it isn't only men with money or power like him who can change the nation. The NEETs are symbolic of people who seem to have no function in society, but by using them he's proving that the very social outcasts society has helped create are the very same people who have the power of change.

Akira is essentially making a counterpoint to the rest of the complacent Japanese society by making such a large ironic statement, that the useless members of society would and could ultimately save it!

As for the prince in a kingless land... well I have this inkling that it's supposed to be a Biblical reference of some sort, with a tie-up between the terms Messiah and Prince. From a Biblical prespective it is possible to liken Japan to Israel during the days after the birth of Christ. Israel was essentially a kingless land with no true successor to the house of David under the Romans. Jesus Christ is called the Son of God and therefore similar to the position of a prince (I'd discuss the nature of the Trinity but that's not important) to the King that is Jehova. I'm not sure which passages state it but there are instances where Jesus is likened to be He who is to ascend the throne of Jerusalem as the King of the Jews. This is not really meant politically but more of a moral leadership standpoint.

As a prince to a kingless land, Akira is being likened to a someone who we can somehow interpet from his own words, someone who seems forced to take the helm of a society who has no directional leader (hence a kingless land) to take it out of it's socioeconomic rut.

[Jan-Poo]

Israel was essentially a kingless land with no true successor to the house of David under the Romans.

This is not true, there was a king and he's even mentioned in the gospel. Of course the real power was held by romans, however romans used to give some degree of liberty to the people they conquered, that is why Herod, the king of the jews at that time could still maintain his title, and he was allowed to held some power.
As for Christ he said himself that "my kingdom is not of this land".

The parallelism can work if you imagine that "king" is a metaphor of a spiritual leader, a messiah, a real guide for the people. An idealized king rather than an actual king. Actually this concept kinda reminds me of the nietzsche's super human.

[slayer545-sama]

If Japan thinks that will save them from North Korea...they can dream on. A good scenario of anime to real life threats towards it. Too bad North Korea has better things against them.

The Golden Ring at the end could mean Takizawa marrying Saki or a wish about it but who knows.

Although I do think the Raptors might help from the USA....does anyone know what North Korea has up their sleeve? NO AND NO WAY! Just though I would do the anime with real situation of Japan NOW!

[MeoTwister5]

Actually if I'm not mistaken Herod isn't Roman but he's not of the line of David, however Herod is considered de facto King of Israel. When I said King I meant it in terms of the true and trusted line of Kings that were ordained by God as the family he has annointed. I can't recall right now as I don't have a Bible handy, but I do believe there hasn't been a King from the line of David after the Babylonian exile.

Well first and foremost I subscribe to Kaufmann's interpretation of the term being Overman rather than Superman (mostly because I read his translations anyway). The Overman wasn't intended by Nietzsche to describe some sort of kingly figure but to imply the needs of man to be unshackled from the chains of excess "otherworld"-isms. He isn't a man who some sort of legendary or otherworldly powers but someone who has essentially broken free from the mold. To paraphrase Thoreau, someone who doesn't fall under the description of Thoreau's quiet and desperate humans. In the simplest terms a man who has broken free from the idleness of society to aim for greater things "over" the average human, thus Overman. Overman isn't supposed to be a Messiah to actively push the people towards liberation, but an ideal form of human for the rest to aspire to.

Of course Nietzsche went batshit before he could truly explain most of what he meant in Thus Spake Zarathustra and the Nazi's misused his philosophy to justify arianism, which further clouds interpretations of his work.

Even then, yeah it's kind of similar to see how Akira can be considered an Ubermensch in a sea of average humanity. He's one of the only few people willing to break free from social chains and take an active role in the upheavals to come.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Oh yeah one more thing. Gold rings aren't used in wedding or engagement rings anymore. Most people prefer silver or platinum rings with diamonds. Gold is like so medieval.

[slayer545-sama]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Oh yeah one more thing. Gold rings aren't used in wedding or engagement rings anymore. Most people prefer silver or platinum rings with diamonds. Gold is like so medieval.

Yet it being gold symbolizes life still.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Oh yeah one more thing. Gold rings aren't used in wedding or engagement rings anymore. Most people prefer silver or platinum rings with diamonds. Gold is like so medieval.

Is that so? I still prefer gold since it's completely incorruptible. Silver oxydates easily and it's a pain to clean.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy

Oh yeah one more thing. Gold rings aren't used in wedding or engagement rings anymore. Most people prefer silver or platinum rings with diamonds. Gold is like so medieval.

That it may well be. But gold wedding bands are more than obviously still being used. I use one, so does my wife and every single one of my friends who are married, as well. Sometimes they use white gold, but it's still the same thing. Not much silver or platinum/diamond rings around these parts, I have to say.

You'd be better off not stating things like this as fact when they are not necessarily true.

As for the topic at hand, I have to say it'll be a long wait until I'm able to see the movies. Oh, well... it was a nice ride, so far.

[Kinny Riddle]

What a way for Akira to end a story - as the King of Japan no doubt, whatever that means. Of course, we'll all have to wait till November to really know what he's actually planning to do.

And from that sound which sounds like another memory wipe, one wonder how he's going to save the country as "King of Japan" and his 20,000 strong Army of NEETs.

Still, the series of the Spring 2009 season, no doubt.

[yura`]

Wow, what a ride. Like what most others have said so far, no real conclusion, but rather, I think this is just the beginning. I think what we've seen so far in the past 11 episodes might just be the background and the basis for everything that will come afterward in the movies.

On the other hand, I don't mind too much the long wait for the movies to be out - rather than half-hour episodes, it'll be an epic 90/120 min as the plot rolls out later in November. But at the same time, I can't wait for all these questions that we have to be answered!

I can't say I'm completely satisfied, but I think the anime has done a very good job in keeping us both guessing and delivering some answers (though vague as they may be). One of the more outstanding series I've seen in awhile that deserves a rewatch now that it's come to its finale (and rewatching might actually put things in a different perspective now, in the light of all the information we've been given).

[Kinny Riddle]

Another LOL would be at Micchon's remark about the NEETs being potentially harmless to them since they're only interested in 2D girls. (2D girl means anime/manga girls, they're 2D since they only exist on paper, as opposed to the 3D flesh and blood girls)

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Another LOL would be at Micchon's remark about the NEETs being potentially harmless to them since they're only interested in 2D girls. (2D girl means anime/manga girls, they're 2D since they only exist on paper, as opposed to the 3D flesh and blood girls)

the two girls running was so hilarious, I think I loop that part like 5 times

[Drake007]

I hope they don'T mess this up like with the NGE Rebuilt. I got my Blu-Ray yesterday and was blasted away by this first part. But we have to wait till 2013 to have the full 4 Rebuilts.

[slayer545-sama]

Originally Posted by Drake007

I hope they don'T mess this up like with the NGE Rebuilt. I got my Blu-Ray yesterday and was blasted away by this first part. But we have to wait till 2013 to have the full 4 Rebuilts.

GOOD.....WAITING FOR RIPS OF THAT!

[Haak]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Oh no, I'm not saying I believe that the story is finished as it is now, and the movies are going to be about a completely different thing, without touching any of the juicy issues.
I just think that I would have preferred the final episode to investigate some of the previous mysteries and try not to raise even more questions, plus not to try to be a mainly humorous episode (I've thought that's a SRS show with some jokes here and there, but the Humor Raito was over average amount now).

Altogether the final episode was just below my expectations. I think it was kinda weak comparing it to the rest of the series.
Additionally if that would have been the first episode I see, I would have thought it's just some kinda crazy Honey and Clover OVA with some scifi elements and a whole bunch of naked guys.

Lol. True. The humor has been kinda misplaced throughout the whole season in general but I like the fact that it raised more questions tahn answered. It means there's more to talk about during the waiting period.

[Starry Dust]

Originally Posted by fish eric

The real question is why the fuck would he do that? He is standing right next to Saki. There are 20,004 people in the building right now who know him.

I was thinking the same thing
I mean, wouldn't Saki figure out that he erased his memories again eventually? But I think it would depend on how far that memory-wipe would go.

I think in episode 2, he recalled his mother giving him money to buy something. Would he be able to recall something like that again or did he screwed himself over....? I just wish Akira would TELL Saki stuff before he does anything but I guess it's a better decision to do what you have to do than to let others worry too much about it.

And it also baffles me on why he gave Saki the phone. It's not like she can use it.

Anywayz, I thought the ending was great. Maybe I laughed too much but it sure was one hell of a ride and it's not over yet Compared to the first episode, it was a bit weaker but it was still enjoyable. EotE is one of a kind being strange, bizarre and highly amusing. Can't wait for the movies <3

[drobertbaker]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Why would he do that in America?...Wouldn't it makes more sense to try and storm the Japanese Imperial Palace for example?

Yeah, it would. I think they probably put him in America really just to add color to the show. It sure got my attention, although I'm not in the target audience. It made for a kick-ass opening episode.

Plus how the hell did he know Saki is Japanese? There is a 4 lane street +2 pedestrian pavement between them, (about 20-30 meters, but I've never been to America, feel free to correct me) and he miraculously knew Saki is from the very same country. Just because one sees an Asian it's hell of a coincidence she's also a japanese just happening to be there, while he was about to make himself arrested.?

In fact, this street has been closed to traffic since the Oklahoma bombings in 1995 and is now a pedestrians-only red brick plaza littered with disguised vehicle obstacles.

I can tell a Japanese from other Asians on sight. Well, a "typical" Japanese, anyway. (Turtleface Saki - that slew me!!!)

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

As for Ohsugi...the very symbol...

I think that finally someone hit the nail on the head about poor misunderstood Oosugi. He is the next generation of the "old wave", even up to the unsuccessful attempt to seduce Saki into his world.

I think I know the reason as to why Akira chose to use the help of the NEETs in shooting down the missles both times rather than do it himself: It's likely because he's trying to prove that a group of people can work together to help their nation rather than having only a single person do it all the time.

Not trying to prove really, he actually believes that's the best way to get the job done; and in getting the job done, he proves the point. It's a key point, the crux of the difference between the old wave and the NEET way.

As a professor I hated this pedagogical technique, what I always called "pooling our ignorance". You aren't going to get any more competence out of a group of know-nothings than you are out of one. But what you do get is a wealth of ideas (most of them stupid). The only way it actually works is if you have a competent authority to judge the ideas and choose the best one(s). Juiz plays that role here. In fact, this is the current dominant model in (enlightened) business settings. At least in the West.

I think this crystalizes the essence of this show and what makes it such a milestone statement.

Japanese society is in the midst of a massive social change from their age-old inward-looking feudal mindset to a 21st century world-oriented empowerment of the individual. I think this was what Saki was struggling to articulate on the escalator way back when they were leaving America.

Problems of this change are apparent to all, but many are having difficulty even understanding it, much less doing anything about it. These problems obviously manifest in the hikkikomori or NEETs as shown in Eden of the East. And in the high death rates of salarymen by suicide and overwork (like in X's family).

A common reaction in Japan to having a hikkikomori in the family is denial and shame. It really reminds me of the hippies in the West during the 1960s and the social transformation they embodied.

Their society is creaking and groaning under the weight of the old ways and they are desperately looking for ways to make this transition without the whole ediface crashing down.

This program articulates these issues and is very boldly stating that this change is not the end of the world, that it's actually a good thing, and that these new ways need to be integrated into the society, not locked away, for the betterment of all.

Good post, Meo.