Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Eitherway, he did not like to kill or see people die.

Well, okay, that is a far stretch, but at least he does not want to see people he cares for even a little to die.

So killing them should be kind of making him feel guilty.

sorry charlie, no sale

[azul120]

I was referring to the utter defiling of his own personal reputation.

[Revolutionist]

I don't agree with the way Lelouch and Suzaku went about changing the world. It was a rather stupid plan and Lelouch opted for the easy way out. They were the strongest people in the world and they misused both their brains and their brawn. For someone who had been fighting all along to destroy the world, a better way of atoning would have been to change it peacefully. And don't tell me that was impossible because it wasn't.

Just tell Schneizel about Charles' plan, which Cornelia could corroborate, and ask them for forgiveness. Without Lelouch taking power by force Schneizel wouldn't be forced to use Damocles, unless he was planning on using it anyway. Have Orange cancel Nunnaly so she can see again, and work with her and Suzaku in Area 11 reforming the system. I don't think Schneizel would oppose some reforms all across the board to the way Britannian society was. He seemed like a reasonable guy, so giving the Numbers full Britannian citizenship + representation in the Parliament wouldn't be something so far fetched.

The only issue left would be people just completely refusing those changes based on pride. But what would the Black Knights do, keep fighting? They'd have to give up because a) they would have to fight not just Lelouch and Suzaku, but Cornelia, KoR (assuming they sided with Schneizel's new government) and Schneizel himself. b) Britannia still had the Fleija as a deterrent.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Without Lelouch taking power by force Schneizel wouldn't be forced to use Damocles, unless he was planning on using it anyway.

He was. You don't build a flying death fortress for kicks, you build it to use it. He had every intention of nuking the world to hell and back, and it didn't take Lelouch coming into power to inspire that.

[bladeofdarkness]

lelouch could have still just went after Schneizel in cambodia without declaring war on the entire world first
he could have spent his life ruling britannia and lead the world down a peaceful path like a normal person would

just picture how funny it would have been had Schneizel decided to sit this one out and simply let lelouch and the black knights destroy each other

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

lelouch could have still just went after Schneizel in cambodia without declaring war on the entire world first
he could have spent his life ruling britannia and lead the world down a peaceful path like a normal person would

just picture how funny it would have been had Schneizel decided to sit this one out and simply let lelouch and the black knights destroy each other

Probably not the best idea to rush the place that has an arsenal of FLEIJA warheads and absolutely no collateral damage to worry about.

The Black Knights would not have attacked Lelouch if they didn't have Schneizel backing them up.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Probably not the best idea to rush the place that has an arsenal of FLEIJA warheads and absolutely no collateral damage to worry about.

and lelouch cares about collateral damage ?
attacking shnizel in cambodia before he's ready for you (before the damocles is deployed) is better then letting him attack you
and the collateral damage that lelouch caused by blowing up mount Fuji would have made anything Schneizel did child's play

The Black Knights would not have attacked Lelouch if they didn't have Schneizel backing them up.

irrelevent
lelouch attacked THEM, and they were defending themselves against him all over the world
they would have been at war with him anyway, and would have tried to go against him in japan anyway

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and lelouch cares about collateral damage ?
attacking shnizel in cambodia before he's ready for you (before the damocles is deployed) is better then letting him attack you

The Damocles was already deployed by the looks of it, or at the very least was probably flight-capable. If he had attacked, Schneizel would see it coming a mile away and run. Either that or he'd just start pitching FLEIJA in every direction, and Lelouch would never get close.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

irrelevent
lelouch attacked THEM, and they were defending themselves against him all over the world
they would have been at war with him anyway, and would have tried to go against him in japan anyway

But not in the way they did. They felt confident because Lelouch's command structure was destroyed by Schneizel. They'd be a lot more careful if that never happened.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The Damocles was already deployed by the looks of it, or at the very least was probably flight-capable. If he had attacked, Schneizel would see it coming a mile away and run. Either that or he'd just start pitching FLEIJA in every direction, and Lelouch would never get close.

why ?
the damocles cant run away from anything, it takes it almost 10 days to travel between america and asia
and even if he starts pitching flejia's everywhere, its still not enough to stop an army the size that lelouch used to conquer japan, much less the rest of lelouch's forces

But not in the way they did. They felt confident because Lelouch's command structure was destroyed by Schneizel. They'd be a lot more careful if that never happened.

they would have still been at war with him
and the war would still have left both sides devestated
if Schneizel decided to stay out of the fight, then lelouch would be incapable of stopping him by the time that he was done with the OOBK
and thats IF he'd be done with them at all, rather then the other way around

having Schneizel join the the OOBK for a last battle was a stupid story telling device that makes no sense, as was Schneizel agreeing not to use the damocles until the OOBK were taken out (he could use it to cut lelouch's army down to the size of a squadron)
it would never work in reality

[Revolutionist]

Ok, so if Schneizel does indeed plan to just nuke the world back to the stone age then the best bet for Lelouch would be a commando assault on Schneizel's Cambodia base with Suzaku, Jeremiah and Sayoko, to try and catch him with his pants down. They would need to try and take out damocles before it gets in the air

The Black Knights wouldn't come to aid Schneizel because they have no support as people would be against aiding a genocidal maniac, and Lelouch is seen as the Emperor of Justice so he'd have no opposition except for Schneizel's forces who weren't that much of a threat to begin with.

It was doable, they didn't need to create a huge ass war to stop Schneizel and "atone"

[bladeofdarkness]

why would the black knights even WANT to come to shnizel's aid ?
its not like they were allies before the last battle
they only allied themselves with him in the last battle because lelouch attacked them, and the enemy of my enemy...

it was not simply doable
it was the logical move to make

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

why ?
the damocles cant run away from anything, it takes it almost 10 days to travel between america and asia
and even if he starts pitching flejia's everywhere, its still not enough to stop an army the size that lelouch used to conquer japan, much less the rest of lelouch's forces

It'd actually be easier to stop a bigger army. More targets, less room to miss. As suggested later on, a small strike force would do the job better..

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

they would have still been at war with him
and the war would still have left both sides devestated
if Schneizel decided to stay out of the fight, then lelouch would be incapable of stopping him by the time that he was done with the OOBK
and thats IF he'd be done with them at all, rather then the other way around

Lelouch would have had a much easier time of it without Schneizel nuking Pendragon. His command structure would still be intact and troop deployments would be far easier. His army on all fronts was merely checked by the UFN with the disadvantage Schneizel caused. Without that he'd be a much bigger threat and the UFN would be far more reluctant to engage him directly. The war would have gone on much longer.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Ok, so if Schneizel does indeed plan to just nuke the world back to the stone age then the best bet for Lelouch would be a commando assault on Schneizel's Cambodia base with Suzaku, Jeremiah and Sayoko, to try and catch him with his pants down. They would need to try and take out damocles before it gets in the air

The Black Knights wouldn't come to aid Schneizel because they have no support as people would be against aiding a genocidal maniac, and Lelouch is seen as the Emperor of Justice so he'd have no opposition except for Schneizel's forces who weren't that much of a threat to begin with.

It was doable, they didn't need to create a huge ass war to stop Schneizel and "atone"

That wouldn't be very hammy, would it?

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

But not in the way they did. They felt confident because Lelouch's command structure was destroyed by Schneizel. They'd be a lot more careful if that never happened.

How many victories did Britannia have against the Black Knights in the last year?

I can't remember a single time Britannia actually won a battle against them, why wouldn't the Black Knights feel confident.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

How many victories did Britannia have against the Black Knights in the last year?

I can't remember a single time Britannia actually won a battle against them, why wouldn't the Black Knights feel confident.

Because they had Zero leading them. Now they have Zero leading another army against them. That's reason enough to lose confidence.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Because they had Zero leading them. Now they have Zero leading another army against them. That's reason enough to lose confidence.

They then replaced Lelouch with the guy who beat Lelouch in Xingke.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

They then replaced Lelouch with the guy who beat Lelouch in Xingke.

Actually it was Schneizel, who had never lost to Lelouch in chess.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Actually it was Schneizel, who had never lost to Lelouch in chess.

Offiicially, but for the most part Xingke lead the actual battle.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Offiicially, but for the most part Xingke lead the actual battle.

True, but as far as I can remember, he did not really co-ordinate the troops or the Black Knights, he was more like..

"ZOMG, WHERE IS MY TIANZI, I MUST RESCUE HER, NOAAZZZZ!!!"

Seriously

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

True, but as far as I can remember, he did not really co-ordinate the troops or the Black Knights, he was more like..

"ZOMG, WHERE IS MY TIANZI, I MUST RESCUE HER, NOAAZZZZ!!!"

Seriously

no...
he actually led them issuing orders, and organizing the attack on the avalon

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

no...
he actually led them issuing orders, and organizing the attack on the avalon

Exactly, Avalon, I mean, it's where the Tianzi is at, after all. He did not coordinate the attacks of all the BK units, as far as I can remember. He did not create a general strategy and such...he just went for the Avalon.