Claymore Chapter 112

[MisterJB]

The whole Riful x Dauf ship has a nasty pedophilic feel ot it.
And yet, it's canon. Bugger.

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

its possible; unlike with warriors or even the awakened one experiments the number of yoma exceeds that of what could be expected in terms of the number of male human orphans (considering yoma are presumably at default male).

Sry, could you make that a bit easier to understand please?

Did you mean that Yoma are made of male humans, or NOT?
I'd say not, otherwise the Warriors wouldn't be half-human, half-yoma.

I guess Yoma are cloned in the labs, since they all look the same. Add a very few different types, like flying ones and nobady asks queer questions.

[rafael1932]

The twins had mind of 5 years old and body nicelly aged. Riful had 100 years old?

But , yes, it was weird

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

the only ones we know for sure have had sex were Riful & Duaf

How do we know that for sure? Oo Nothing in the manga itself indicates that they ever had sex, I just read the entire thing yesterday. I'd know.

That talk about him being able to accept her wouldn't make too much sense in the sexual meaning anyway, seeing as it's not possible for a man to accept a woman physically... And before you start talking about BDSM and stuff like that, that isn't what you'd refer to as "being accepted". I don't think Riful was into that kinda stuff as before awakening...

'Sides, Riful and Dauf likely didn't meet before their awakening. Even if Riful was one of the first female Claymores, during the switch from male to female warrior-production, there wasn't any time for intercourse, seeing as she very quickly awakened and we know from recent chapters, that males (almost) always instantly awaken after they regain consciousness after their operation.
Dauf really isn't the kind to have any control over his temper and I strongly doubt he would be one of those very few exceptions.

I believe that the talk about him accepting her without breaking is really only in view of her strength as an AB and him as an AB with that ridiculously tough armor being able to withstand her playing around.

Originally Posted by Nixl

Pardon, I may have misinterpreted your past posts, but does there really need to be a Yoma factory? If I remember from earlier in the story Yoma can reproduce without the organization's assistance. On the other hand, Claymores and ABs require expertise in creating.

Nothing in the earlier story indicates them being able to reproduce, and anything the Yoma themselves said is rendered useless by the fact that they seem to get their knowledge from somewhere in the Org, considering that Yomas believe to have always existed, but in fact did not until a few decadesa ago, which we learned from Maria after Claire's first battle with an AB.
I just read all of Claymore yesterday.^^

Originally Posted by rafael1932

The twins had mind of 5 years old and body nicelly aged. Riful had 100 years old?

But , yes, it was weird

... What the hell are you talking about?

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Savannah

How do we know that for sure? Oo Nothing in the manga itself indicates that they ever had sex, I just read the entire thing yesterday. I'd know.

That talk about him being able to accept her wouldn't make too much sense in the sexual meaning anyway, seeing as it's not possible for a man to accept a woman physically... And before you start talking about BDSM and stuff like that, that isn't what you'd refer to as "being accepted". I don't think Riful was into that kinda stuff as before awakening...

I've seen translations where she says that Dauf is the only one who can take her without breaking. "Take" being the key word here.
Add to that the fact that Riful calls Dauf "her man" and actually gives a damn about wether he dies or lives and the fact that Dauf is a pervert, and the most logical conclusion is that they're a couple.

'Sides, Riful and Dauf likely didn't meet before their awakening. Even if Riful was one of the first female Claymores, during the switch from male to female warrior-production, there wasn't any time for intercourse, seeing as she very quickly awakened and we know from recent chapters, that males (almost) always instantly awaken after they regain consciousness after their operation.
Dauf really isn't the kind to have any control over his temper and I strongly doubt he would be one of those very few exceptions.

And why exactly is it that they can't have sex as Awakened Beings?

BTW, the male Awakened Beings in the recent chapters skipped a stage, they went directly from human to Awakened Being. And then it was explained that the Org kidnaps men with the sole purpose of turning them into Awakened Beings, and then drops them near a certain setllement they want to see desstroyed.
Therefore, it's safe to assume that the process by which these new male ABs difers from the process that once created male Claymores.

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

I've seen translations where she says that Dauf is the only one who can take her without breaking. "Take" being the key word here.
Add to that the fact that Riful calls Dauf "her man" and actually gives a damn about wether he dies or lives and the fact that Dauf is a pervert, and the most logical conclusion is that they're a couple.



And why exactly is it that they can't have sex as Awakened Beings?

BTW, the male Awakened Beings in the recent chapters skipped a stage, they went directly from human to Awakened Being. And then it was explained that the Org kidnaps men with the sole purpose of turning them into Awakened Beings, and then drops them near a certain setllement they want to see desstroyed.
Therefore, it's safe to assume that the process by which these new male ABs difers from the process that once created male Claymores.

Okay, I guess that "take" and "accept" depends on the scanlator, how he saw it. I still think that there wasn't a real sexual meaning, even if dear Riful likes to bring that kind of inflection into it.

What would the awakened beings have sex with? We get to see them alot in great detail, but there's nothing what we could call a former sex organ, unless they'd use their human-mask-bodies. But then anybody could "take" her without breaking, couldn't they?

In the explanation about these new make AB's, the only difference seems to lie in the training warriors, both male and female would recieve. From the characters of the females it would seem to me that they all learn a certain amount of stoniness in their emotions, some self-control normal humans have no reason to learn. Male warriors would need even more so, but "because of their nature, half-man, half-yoma awaken instantly", quoting the scanlation of 112. Sure you can train a certain amount of control over that, but do you seriously want to tell me a guy like Dauf could really gain much control over any orgasm?

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Savannah

Sry, could you make that a bit easier to understand please?

Did you mean that Yoma are made of male humans, or NOT?
I'd say not, otherwise the Warriors wouldn't be half-human, half-yoma.

I guess Yoma are cloned in the labs, since they all look the same. Add a very few different types, like flying ones and nobady asks queer questions.

Yoma as far as we know, in their base form, are generated from nothing at all.

We just don't know what creates the base Yoma, though it would be ironic if the process stemmed somehow from the DoD's....like they are twisted humanoid versions of them. The rare flying version can be the next step, until they tried adding a bit more humanity into the mix (i.e. Claymore), and so on and so forth....

After all, as far as we know, the DoD's have always been on the side of the opposing enemy, whereas the Org faction has apparently been comprised of nothing but humans, with no super weapons of any kind; why not start with what the enemy uses?

Wouldn't surprise me....it fits with the Organization seemingly always using the enemy itself, against them.

And unless these recent chapters have changed things, while we're on the topic, I've already all but proven why the whole "stimulus makes men awaken immediately" is false (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=742).

[Nixl]

@Savannah

You are right, I recanted in my last post. Early claymore is still a bit fuzzy to me at times. I have not read it in a while.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Savannah

Sry, could you make that a bit easier to understand please?

Did you mean that Yoma are made of male humans, or NOT?
I'd say not, otherwise the Warriors wouldn't be half-human, half-yoma.

I guess Yoma are cloned in the labs, since they all look the same. Add a very few different types, like flying ones and nobady asks queer questions.

yea what I meant is that they are not human, because there is to many of them (the island isn't that populated and so there is not enough human orphans that would make up the numbers of the yoma population).

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by Shiek927

And unless these recent chapters have changed things, while we're on the topic, I've already all but proven why the whole "stimulus makes men awaken immediately" is false (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=742).

You're completely forgetting the fact, that half-human, half-yoma don't age after the transformation. That means that all the guys we see were indeed transformed into warriors at a different and less uniform age than the modern female warriors.
Which reflects the fact, that the time of male warriors was the first one, when research just started and the ORG didn't yet quite know what will bring about the better results.
So in other words, most of your prove is no longer proven?^^
More over, the STORY itself says males couldn't control themselves most of the time, so that's the truth of what we know so far, and likely most of the real truth too. I don't know if that first male mountain AB said it himself, too, but at the very least he did not disagree with Maria, when she said that they couldn't withstand the temptation of a full release. We may soon hear some more stuff about the circumstances of the past male warriors and these new half-man, half-yoma, but probably the most important fact is simply, that they can't control themselves without real good training.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Savannah

You're completely forgetting the fact, that half-human, half-yoma don't age after the transformation. .

they age up to they are full grown adults but then stop at that (so don't get wrinkles or look old). The biggest proof of it is that as trainee's they have yoki yet obviously they are small kids (look at young teresa who was able to sense rafaela's yoki).

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

they age up to they are full grown adults but then stop at that (so don't get wrinkles or look old). The biggest proof of it is that as trainee's they have yoki yet obviously they are small kids (look at young teresa who was able to sense rafaela's yoki).

Uh, okay, I accept that they still do grow some. But not until they're fully grown, otherwise we'd have a lot more buxom Claymores.

Hmm, that makes me think that they grow for a certain time, like until their body is completely adapted or consumed or what ever you want to call it by the yoma.
Claire said that they're basically a human head on a yoma body, which means it would not be wrong to assume that their body itself is actually more yoma than human, held in check only by their human willpower. Everything else we've since learned about ABs and Claymores and stats (willpower etc.) underscores that logic.

Claire also said that Elena and she held each other during the time their body changed after the operation in the earlier chapters, so that time period might also have much to do with their stopping growth shortly after adolescence.

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Savannah

Uh, okay, I accept that they still do grow some. But not until they're fully grown, otherwise we'd have a lot more buxom Claymores.
.

Illena confirmed it was until they were fully grown in that chapter where she saves claire from ophelia (at the campfire).

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Savannah

You're completely forgetting the fact, that half-human, half-yoma don't age after the transformation. That means that all the guys we see were indeed transformed into warriors at a different and less uniform age than the modern female warriors.
Which reflects the fact, that the time of male warriors was the first one, when research just started and the ORG didn't yet quite know what will bring about the better results.
So in other words, most of your prove is no longer proven?^^

Wait....you're confusing me.

Are you talking about warriors/Claymores? Yes, they do age; they mature until they reach their prime of life (late 20's usually *points to Miria/Teresa etc) and then they are frozen. After that, they don't age anymore for obvious reasons.

More over, the STORY itself says males couldn't control themselves most of the time, so that's the truth of what we know so far, and likely most of the real truth too. I don't know if that first male mountain AB said it himself, too, but at the very least he did not disagree with Maria, when she said that they couldn't withstand the temptation of a full release. We may soon hear some more stuff about the circumstances of the past male warriors and these new half-man, half-yoma, but probably the most important fact is simply, that they can't control themselves without real good training.

And haven't I expressed why that can't be true? Yes, I know what the story says, but that's not enough for me; it's inconsistent with other things that we know, I'm not just going to accept what looks like a plot-hole to me and just ignore it because Miria said so.

[Savannah]

Originally Posted by evil_kenshin

Illena confirmed it was until they were fully grown in that chapter where she saves claire from ophelia (at the campfire).

Nope, she says "We half-yoma mature, but we don't age, we keep the same form until we die or change into yoma."
The term "mature" is used primarily for the maturing of the mind, not the body, though it's applicable there, too. I'd like to know what the Japanese version says. I do understand very little Japanese, but as long as it's romanized I'd know what it refers to...
I understand that they may age in mind, but not in body. Already in the first chapter of the manga we can see Claire to have a very youthful form, not very adult, is it?
Honestly, until sombody tells me what exactly the Japanese version refers to, or I get the romanized sentence, I won't be convinced that their body do continue to age until their body reaches full adulthood. Even if it does currently seem so here and there, then it'd be more likely that the reason for that is the seemingly standardized age at which they're operated. Miata never quite physically matured after her transformation, right?

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Wait....you're confusing me.

Are you talking about warriors/Claymores? Yes, they do age; they mature until they reach their prime of life (late 20's usually *points to Miria/Teresa etc) and then they are frozen. After that, they don't age anymore for obvious reasons.



And haven't I expressed why that can't be true? Yes, I know what the story says, but that's not enough for me; it's inconsistent with other things that we know, I'm not just going to accept what looks like a plot-hole to me and just ignore it because Miria said so.

Where do you know from that they age until their late 20's (do you refer to 20-29 or to 10-19?)? Really don't look like that to me. Look at Miata...

Really, I'm 22 years old and whenever I see Claire or most of the other Claymores that aren't in the G7, they seem a few years younger to me...

[Shiek927]

Where do you know from that they age until their late 20's (do you refer to 20-29 or to 10-19?)? Really don't look like that to me. Look at Miata...

Really, I'm 22 years old and whenever I see Claire or most of the other Claymores that aren't in the G7, they seem a few years younger to me...

......okay, now I know you are just playing around

(Late 20's is more or less when the prime of life is; 27-28 years old)

I understand that they may age in mind, but not in body. Already in the first chapter of the manga we can see Claire to have a very youthful form, not very adult, is it?

Um yeah, that's why she has continued to mature; Claire looked like a teenager in the early volumes; she looks like she's in her early 20's now.

Maybe I just don't understand you clearly, but I think you're confusing yourself.

Miata never quite physically matured after her transformation, right?

Savannah, we barely have seen much of Miata at all; their is nothing whatsoever that says she won't mature like everybody else.

Savannah, I feel like I need to point out that aging and maturing are the same thing up to a certain point (the prime of life); after that, yes, the body simply gets older and older till death. Irene said her words in the sense that warriors never become old, physically, after a certain point; after reaching physical maturity, they are frozen in that state; again, as for why, all of this is pretty self-explanatory.

I won't be convinced that their body do continue to age until their body reaches full adulthood.

Rafaela, Irene....these women are old enough to be grandmothers; where does this idea that they age after full-adulthood even come from, especially since you used that quote from Irene herself?

[evil_kenshin]

Originally Posted by Savannah

Miata never quite physically matured after her transformation, right?

we have no idea how old she is, say there is a 7 year timeskip again and miata still hasn't changed in size then you'd be on to something but everything so far shows they do continue to grow until they reach their adult form.

only awakened fully stop aging once they awaken if they are not adult yet (Riful is proof) yet we have seen with Teresa etc that they do continue to age.

now you can't tell me a 8 year old looking Teresa (from the Rafaela encounter) stopped aging into the woman we know from the Priscilla incident. She looked like an adult in the chapters we were shown from Claires childhood.

[Shiek927]

we have no idea how old she is

On that subject, if you ask me, she's 9 years old; it's too hard to know for sure without further information, but she's definitely younger then Riful and has definitely not crossed into puberty (Riful just passed the threshold).

That said, she has to be somewhere between 6-9; I'm picking the latest for the sake of her being the oldest by those measures, but we won't know for sure without more info.

[Korinov]

I think Miata has the looks of a pre-teen, but of course it depends on what everybody considers a "teen" and also on the girl herself (not all girls reach puberty at the same time). I'd say she must be about 9 - 12.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Korinov

I think Miata has the looks of a pre-teen, but of course it depends on what everybody considers a "teen" and also on the girl herself (not all girls reach puberty at the same time). I'd say she must be about 9 - 12.

Miata has no bust though, none whatsoever; puberty supposedly starts at 10.5 years old. Riful looks to be in the second stage (age 11), which is consistent with her appearance, but Miata definitely looks younger then Riful.

9-12 is, like you say, what seems to be the "tween" or pre-teen demographic; basically the final years of elementary school when the child beings crossing over puberty, though I would raise it up one year to 10-12.