Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Discerptor]

I just realised that knowledge of Zero Requiem completely changes how we should look at Lelouch's Kallen interaction from Turn 22. I thought he let her walk with him and kiss him to give her closure so she wouldn't keep getting cruelly strung along by something that would never happen, but no! It was integral to Zero Requiem that Kallen be against Zero so that she could "kill" Suzaku. He wasn't trying to be nice or merciful to Kallen at all, but rather intentionally toying with her feelings so she would get bitter and murderous towards him. I find this extremely amusing. Lelouch played everyone pretty well, but what he did to Kallen was just cruel.

[bladeofdarkness]

they could make a movie or an OVA that has nothing to do with lelouch but rather then suzaku
its rather intersting that lulu tasked him with being the mask for his entire life without thinking about what that does to a man
C.C herself said that who ever puts on the mask must be willing to carry the world on his sholders
and suzaku would have to do it for all times with practiclly no one to be there beside him and "support" him
by support i dont mean help him with what he has to do but rather no one would treat him as anything other the zero
even those few who know that there is a man under the mask would be forced (for the sake of world peace) to treat him as "zero"
both kallen and suzaku have stated before that "zero" is a character that lulu plays rather then who he is inside
lelouch even admited that the mask is just a tool and "zero" is only a role to play
a mask feels no pain or loneliness
it needs no support or comfort or friendship
but a man wearing the mask does
but while lelouch had plenty of people who support him (C.C and later kallen when he is zero, and the ashford student council as lelouch) suzaku would effectively have no one

it would be interesting to see how he deals with it and what the few characters who know who he is do to help him cope with it
1)nunnaly is a good choice for a support character in that regard since she is the one closest to him on a day to day basis
but she has very little idea on what its like to actually be zero and what its like to wear a mask for so long
2)kallen is also an interesting choice since she knows about how heavy the mask is, she understands more then anyone that "zero" is a role rather then a man (she never refers to lelouch as zero in private in r2) she knows what its like to wear a mask and she's also the one who "killed" suzkau so it would be kinda ironic for her to be keeping him alive (emotionally)
but on her end it would be interesting how she feels about suzaku at this point
she was the first of the OOBK to except him as zero (forgiving him enough to except him as such for the sake of the plan)
but at the same time it also means excepting the one who killed the man she loved (which was a big deal for suzaku in relation to lelouch killing euphie)

this could be a good place to start an other story

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

When has Lelouch ever had a major role in the combat? He's always been the commander. I doubt he would just sit back as someone messed with his plan for the world.
I think all the keys are there for. Lelouch 'could be' alive, C.C. is just how she was, Suzaku is alive, Jeremiah is alive in case someone needs de-Geassing, and Kallen is alive and still has the key to her Guren. You even still have Lloyd and Rakshata alive and well. Just image what would happen if they cooperated and made something? We saw what happened when Lloyd just advanced her Guren.
Not to mention most of the supporting cast is still alive. It was odd how few died in that last major battle.

its very possibe that the guren is still around
it was mostly inteact after the fight (arms can be replaced, as can teh head)
why toss aside the most powerfull KMF ever built when you can just repair it
or maybe kallen is keeping it in ashford (like the ganimade was) and fixing it up herself (to the extent that she herself can, since she had the skill it takes to keep it running during the year when lelouch was gone) kinda like a pet project (someone fixing up an old car)
it is a historical machine after all
the KMF that was used to "kill" the knight of zero
she has shown more conection to it then any other pilot to their machine in the show (even telling it she's sorry when it looked like they were about to die)
and its a gift from lelouch

[FoxxFireArt]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

I just realised that knowledge of Zero Requiem completely changes how we should look at Lelouch's Kallen interaction from Turn 22. I thought he let her walk with him and kiss him to give her closure so she wouldn't keep getting cruelly strung along by something that would never happen, but no! It was integral to Zero Requiem that Kallen be against Zero so that she could "kill" Suzaku. He wasn't trying to be nice or merciful to Kallen at all, but rather intentionally toying with her feelings so she would get bitter and murderous towards him. I find this extremely amusing. Lelouch played everyone pretty well, but what he did to Kallen was just cruel.

Then why in Lelouch's memories Kallen appeared in their kiss. It's not like it was some major plot point.
It's obvious that the kiss had some meaning to Lelouch. His memory of Kallen wasn't of her as a fighter or a friend, but as a woman who kissed him. It was Lelouch who asked for that time alone with her, it was Lelouch who broke his character, and he refused to even lie to Kallen. Though he did openly lie to Nunnally.

I'm of the mind that he wanted to be alone with Kallen one last time and wish her a goodbye.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

its very possibe that the guren is still around
it was mostly inteact after the fight (arms can be replaced, as can teh head)
why toss aside the most powerfull KMF ever built when you can just repair it
or maybe kallen is keeping it in ashford (like the ganimade was) and fixing it up herself (to the extent that she herself can, since she had the skill it takes to keep it running during the year when lelouch was gone) kinda like a pet project (someone fixing up an old car)
it is a historical machine after all
the KMF that was used to "kill" the knight of zero
she has shown more conection to it then any other pilot to their machine in the show (even telling it she's sorry when it looked like they were about to die)
and its a gift from lelouch

I doubt she's keeping the Guren at Ashford, but she sure is ready for a fight if ever called upon.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

Then why in Lelouch's memories Kallen appeared in their kiss. It's not like it was some major plot point.
It's obvious that the kiss had some meaning to Lelouch. His memory of Kallen wasn't of her as a fighter or a friend, but as a woman who kissed him. It was Lelouch who asked for that time alone with her, it was Lelouch who broke his character, and he refused to even lie to Kallen. Though he did openly lie to Nunnally.

I'm of the mind that he wanted to be alone with Kallen one last time and wish her a goodbye.

even more so considering that if there was ever a time for him to understand that he has feelings for her
it would be in ep 19 when she showed him how she feels about him and asked him what she means to him (he was sweating for a bit)
he did deceide to save HER at any cost while giving up any hope of saving himself (he knew he wouldnt have much choice anyway)
and he did break the mask in the end to tell her his last words
and right after that they were torn apart

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

I doubt she's keeping the Guren at Ashford, but she sure is ready for a fight if ever called upon.

i choose ashford becouse its the best place to keep one (and she was heading there with the USB)
its not like she can park it in the back yard
but ashford did have a place for a KMF
and milly could pull some strings

[killbethy]

Was there ever a definitive ending for Kanon? I was just thinking about how huge of a plot hole he is left alive.... and I believe the last we see of him, he IS still alive. Kanon knows about Lelouch's past, is loyal to Schneizel, knows what Schneizel was Geass-ed to do (serve Zero), knows that the new Zero can't be Lelouch. He could make one Zero costume and appear before Schneizel and derail the whole Zero Requiem with the amount he knows! LOL I'm surprised they didn't show him as dead or Geass-ed to patch that up.

[Dream_Traveller]

Well, I believe that, after Damocles, we got a couple of seconds of a glimpse of him being amongst the prisoners...but that's it.

[Boduar]

I think ill be delusional and hope that by some mysterious plot Lelouch really didnt die and hes the covered up guy at the front of the wagon with C.C. in it and they live happily ever after. In response to one of the above Lelouch knew how cruel he was to Suzaku to make him wear the mask for the rest of his life when he said "This will be your punishment". But yeah chances are Lelouch died too bad.

[Revolutionist]

atb 2023, somewhere in Italy...

A woman walks through a long hall, which ends in an open air garden. The camera zooms out to reveal a castle nestled in the mountains. The woman keeps walking until she reaches a small pool, where a man whose face is obscured is sitting, enjoying a nice warm fabulously bubbly bath. She bows and says:

"Your highness, production has exceeded your calculations. Soon we shall be in a position to make our move."

The camera then switches to the woman's feet and then moves downward going through the floor, the castle's cellar and through the mountain itself until it comes to an underground factory where Vincent Knightmare frames are being produced.

"The only problem now is..." she is suddenly cut off

Kanon: That is the least of my worries.
Camera then zooms in on Kanon's eye to reveal double geass symbols.

*Ridiculously EVIL laugh ensues*

inc R3! lawl

[whiter]

Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt

Then why in Lelouch's memories Kallen appeared in their kiss. It's not like it was some major plot point.
It's obvious that the kiss had some meaning to Lelouch. His memory of Kallen wasn't of her as a fighter or a friend, but as a woman who kissed him. It was Lelouch who asked for that time alone with her, it was Lelouch who broke his character, and he refused to even lie to Kallen. Though he did openly lie to Nunnally.

Those memories "spurt" out in cycles, and Kallens kiss happens to be the last one of a cycle, and hence the "pause"...
Wait that must mean he loves Kallen.... c'mon
Or then it was just placed there, because everything doesn't necessarily have to mean something special..
Or then it represented that he dissliked it...
There's numberous ways to interpret that flow of events.

And,
Lelouch didn't quite have any need to lie for Kallen in the end(for whatever reason this was), for Nunally he had which makes it completely different case.

//off to sleep

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

they could make a movie or an OVA that has nothing to do with lelouch but rather then suzaku

Yeah, and in that OVA they can show us that Lowe Gear was the one responsible for rescuing Suzaku from Lancelot's exploding firecrotch....Then we'll could find out that Gilford is actually Reverend Malchio from Gundam Seed...Perfecto =)...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Boduar

I think ill be delusional and hope that by some mysterious plot Lelouch really didnt die and hes the covered up guy at the front of the wagon with C.C. in it and they live happily ever after. In response to one of the above Lelouch knew how cruel he was to Suzaku to make him wear the mask for the rest of his life when he said "This will be your punishment".

I don't think it's cruel at all. It gives Suzaku a purpose, a good one, while satisfying his craving for punishment. Lelouch's never been all that much about punishment, but Suzaku is. It's a way to indulge him productively.

And ultimately, Suzaku's the one who chose to put on the mask. At any point, he could say "screw it" and stop being Zero.

[Aethos]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Yeah, and in that OVA they can show us that Lowe Gear was the one responsible for rescuing Suzaku from Lancelot's exploding firecrotch....Then we'll could find out that Gilford is actually Reverend Malchio from Gundam Seed...Perfecto =)...

Code Geass movie with a Suzaku and Kira Yamato team up.

[Strygwyr]

Originally Posted by Aethos

Code Geass movie with a Suzaku and Kira Yamato team up.

Probaly a movie that tells if lelouch is alive or not.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Aethos

Code Geass movie with a Suzaku and Kira Yamato team up.

Kira's a one-man army, untouchable. Suzaku will probably slow him down
I can imagine Kira bringing Lacus down to earth...
Suzaku: Omgssshhh Euphie!!!!
Kira: No touchy, she's mine

[FlyingSheep]

Originally Posted by FlyingSheep

I don't think he died, the title of the anime is CODE geass. Yet everyone only has the code OR the geass. I think that when his father died Lelouch snagged the code and became the first to obtain both the code and the geass. The code didn't belong to C.C. so he is the first to obtain Code Geass. So he probably is the guy driving the cart. I can't recall, but I don't think C.C. knew how to make the little swan out of paper, like when Lelouch did with his sister. Unless he magically spawned one from the world of C. Anyway, my vote is that he obtained Code Geass and now lives with C.C. as an immortal. Also, in order to obtain the code you have to die, like Charles. Charles died and when he popped back up, bam! Code madness. Now that Lelouch is dead... The code that he didn't get from C.C. but from Charles is with him. Not to mention he proved his acting skills with his sister, so taking a nap in front of thousands shouldn't be much of a burden. Not to mention he promised to kill C.C. if he knew he was going die in his little plot, why not kill C.C. and make up his promise?

As a critic, I think the anime's ending was above average. Nicely scripted and performed.

As a viewer, I think the ending was rather horrible. If you think about it, Lelouch was hated by all but like, three people in the end. First anime I've ever watched that involved the main character being hated by the world. I think Lelouch's ending was more like an emo ending, hate added with death and some more hate. Spoiler! If you haven't watched Witchblade or Air! don't read.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

In Witchblade the main character died with a happy ending defending the world! In Air, everyone just died. That anime needs to be burned, burned again, and then have its ashes burned. Witchblade's ending was to save lives. Even in Air, the deaths had SOME meaning. But with Lelouch, if he had really died, what guarantee did he have that the world would be better?

I do not wish to appear as a jerk or anything, but I really wanted to hear people's opinions on this. That is why I'm quoting myself. Pick it apart, agree, disagree, let me hear your opinions! Reading is good too. I'm jealous of CharKnight... or howeverits spelled. He gets soo many comments...

[finalnight]

Originally Posted by hero147

Kira's a one-man army, untouchable. Suzaku will probably slow him down
I can imagine Kira bringing Lacus down to earth...
Suzaku: Omgssshhh Euphie!!!!
Kira: No touchy, she's mine

Don't get me wrong, I liked the Gundam Seed series, but do you really want to see a movie where in the first 5 seconds everyone is disabled by Strike Freedom and in the next 5 seconds they are all killed by the Lancelot Albion?

[finalnight]

Originally Posted by Pink-chan

Just saying about C.C. giving Lelouch Geass. Nothing else. He and Suzaku are 'old friend'. I suppose we will get an update of the chart tomorrow.

Bitches never did update the correlative.

[hero147]

I wonder...If the Cart driver wasn't Lelouch, why the hell would CC talk about Geass out loud? Isn't it something that should be kept secret from the world? I'm guessing the Cart driver overheard something....Anyhow, CC didn't even talk to herself in the church, everything we heard from her was her thoughts, hence she didn't open her mouth in the church....However in the last scene, she did...

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by hero147

I wonder...If the Cart driver wasn't Lelouch, why the hell would CC talk about Geass out loud? Isn't it something that should be kept secret from the world? I'm guessing the Cart driver overheard something....Anyhow, CC didn't even talk to herself in the church, everything we heard from her was her thoughts, hence she didn't open her mouth in the church....However in the last scene, she did...

To be fair, people of the general public wouldn't know what Geass is and just chalk it up to something foreign in nature. Geass is still something revealed in full to a select few.