AnimeSuki Forums

chibamonster · 2008-03-14, 13:03

@Fenrir: I agree that a rank is very important to a claymore for the same reasons. Some seem proud of it and some seem not to care. Ranking is very important in a claymore's working relationship with their comrades.

In the extra chapter with Miria it seemed to be her actual phantom ability that made her better in group battles, and has nothing to do with her leadership because she was not leading at the time. I was thinking more along the lines of does this mean Miria is as devastating as number 1 in a group or does it mean that #1 really is not good in a group at all? Or is it just saying that in a team setting Miria's ability is far more powerful?

Alicia does not seem like a team player, and she has no leadership skills (or at least is kept in the organization so she has no chance to use them) so being a better leader than her would not be an accomplishment. Miria might just excel when she has team mates because it covers any weakness she has and allows her to exploit the weaknesses of others. That is why I am unsure why they mentioned it.

tenken627 · 2008-03-14, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibamonster

Alicia does not seem like a team player, and she has no leadership skills (or at least is kept in the organization so she has no chance to use them) so being a better leader than her would not be an accomplishment. Miria might just excel when she has team mates because it covers any weakness she has and allows her to exploit the weaknesses of others. That is why I am unsure why they mentioned it.

This is why I wrote better than any Claymores instead of writing the name of the current #1, Alicia. Alicia is almost a mindless weapon for the organization. She would be useless in a team setting. It seems like a MiB needs to be around her at battle to command her.

You might be right about Miria's actual physical abilities and attributes are better utilized in a team setting.

Simley · 2008-03-14, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibamonster

In the extra chapter with Miria it seemed to be her actual phantom ability that made her better in group battles, and has nothing to do with her leadership because she was not leading at the time. I was thinking more along the lines of does this mean Miria is as devastating as number 1 in a group or does it mean that #1 really is not good in a group at all? Or is it just saying that in a team setting Miria's ability is far more powerful?

yeah...it's rather confusing isn't it?

"her work in team battles exceeds even that of number 1"...is she so skilled in leadership that the team is able to beat even a #1? or is she able to deal more dmg in a team since she can move so fast nobody can follow....it's so confusing lol. all I know is miria is very powerful

maybe top 3 material now after 7 years...if she was considered more powerful than a #1 in a team battle before, would she be stronger than...2 #1 in a team battle now?

take on beth and alicia at once?

lol yeah right

zato_1one · 2008-03-14, 13:56

In Extra 2, I think Miria might act as a leader at that time because Ophelia didn't participate in fight.

khryoleoz · 2008-03-14, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibamonster

In the extra chapter with Miria it seemed to be her actual phantom ability that made her better in group battles, and has nothing to do with her leadership because she was not leading at the time.

We can't conclusively know at this time exactly by what measure Miria got her promotion, but as she demonstrates her effectiveness her leadership would not go unnoticed and unrewarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibamonster

I was thinking more along the lines of does this mean Miria is as devastating as number 1 in a group or does it mean that #1 really is not good in a group at all? Or is it just saying that in a team setting Miria's ability is far more powerful?

I can't see that Miria herself simply becomes as powerful as Alicia just because she's got some company making her feel better. The assessment must be looking at the kill potential and success rate of a group that is led by Miria, which are as good if not better than either 1) Alicia only, if a specific number 1 was being referred to who was active during Miria's time, or 2) any number 1 in general.

ashesatdusk · 2008-03-14, 15:42

Quote:

I can't see that Miria herself simply becomes as powerful as Alicia just because she's got some company making her feel better. The assessment must be looking at the kill potential and success rate of a group that is led by Miria, which are as good if not better than either 1) Alicia only, if a specific number 1 was being referred to who was active during Miria's time, or 2) any number 1 in general.

Since it was orphelia that said that I would assume it was referring to the current #1. Most Claymore's seem to be ignorant of their previous generations. Orphelia didn't know who Irene was for example.

It doesn't really surprise me that Miria is better in a group setting than the generation of claymores. Alicia and Beth are said to have both barely have personalities, in order to perform soul link to do the full awakening trick. I can see why they'd suck in an environment that requires team work with other claymores. Whether they need to work in a team (other than with one another), being irrelevant.

We know that Orphelia was terrible in a team setting.

So that left Galatea and Rafeala. Refeala seems more like a secret agent so I don't know how often they sent her in for group ops.

Of course stating what I've said it probably means being better than that generations #1 in a group setting isn't really that impressive. It leaves room more room for discussion if another claymore would rival miria's tactical ability.

chibamonster · 2008-03-14, 15:57

This is exactly why I do not know what the more powerful than number one in a group means.

The MiB were saying it about her before she was a single digit hence not the leader. No leadership is necessary against normal youma, although I guess it could be argued. I know there is the cult of miria that worships her as a tactician and a goddess, I am just curious why the organization references her to number 1 specifically. Whatever they mean it is obviously quite an accomplishment of some sort. If it is a leadership issue then being better than 1 is no accomplishment at all and not worth mentioning. I do not think Miria feels better and is suddenly physically powerful because she has someone else with her holding her hand.

The idea I have is that her ability is more suited for a group environment as someone else said. Much like Galatea's ability only worked when Duff did not know what was happening and was unsure of himself or when he was being distracted by multiple opponents. Galatea's youki manipulation ability would also excel in a group environment, but not enough to say she is more powerful than number 1. Whatever they are insinuating I hope they mean that Alicia is still potent in a group, but gets no advantage and that Miria is able to use her ability in a team setting to her advantage. It seems to me that better than number 1 in a group is quite an achievement of some sort. If they do mean actual leadership then it is disappointing to me because Alicia does not seem like real competition.

hell88 · 2008-03-14, 16:12

The way how Miria and the other ghosts have all gotten stronger from all there training together, that would probably make Miria even better in group battles. If she is, she is probably the most dangerous member of the ghosts in battle. Well mabye besides Clare who could probably awaken in any battle.

Slick_rick · 2008-03-14, 16:45

I believe the reason Miria is compared to number 1 in a group setting is probably because of both her leadership and ability. We have seen when she has to fights 1 on 1 with Awakened being like in the Slashers arc and against Rigaldo her mirage is used mostly as defense because she doesn't have the sensing like Clare and is not normally very fast without it. In a group she would be able to use it much more offensively and it seems very powerful when used this way. Also her leadership allows her to take advantage of all her teammates while we have seen most other Claymore who tend to only utilize the stronger claymore while telling the weaker to stand aside.

khryoleoz · 2008-03-14, 16:50

Well, I don't think it's that hard to understand what the org meant. Miria's own strength is not augmented to the level of Alicia just because Clare, Jean, Deneve, Helen and 19 others have got her back covered, which calms her nerves so that she can unleash her Abyssal Powers. It makes more sense that such a group led by Miria has a potential to rival the power of a number 1.

I'm thinking that whoever it was that originally said that of Miria must have said it not taking into account what Alicia would be upon her completion. The 24, save for the 7 who played dead, were killed. Alicia on the other hand slaughtered all the ABs who were sent after the org. Post-time skip, the 7 are stronger, but still not (at least I don't think) an Abyssal force as Alicia is.

hell88 · 2008-03-14, 17:29

Something else about Miria in leading groups is that she can be welcoming to her teamates which probably gives them hope when going into battle and it makes it easier for them to take orders from her, unlike some single didgits where they are more cold and just say something like "lets get this over with if you die you die."

azurie · 2008-03-14, 17:52

well as you have seen Miria has this nack of bring the most out of people she can take a #47 and make that #47 fight like a #30 or better or so it seems just by bringing out the best of that person. That's just my view of her leadership skills and how she brings out qualities in people that they themselvs never knew they had.

Slick_rick · 2008-03-14, 17:58

Well in Defense of the 24 who fought in the north all of the stronger claymore where killed/injured by Rigaldo and they were facing 20 plus awakened. Alicia had to deal with much weaker awakened and far less. Alicia might have her had a tough battle if Rigaldo was there with those other awakened. And its obvious they weren't talking about an awakened Alicia because awakened #1 as we have seen are on a completely different scale than other awakened and generally claymores don't compare to normal awakened much less a #1.

The 7 ghosts after that the time-skip made Agatha look like childs play so I believe they can stand up to Riful/Alicia/Isley because of the combined abilities of the team and excellent teamwork they have shown. I don't know if they would win but I bet they'd likely take heavy casualties. I don't see them on the level of Priscilla though.

chibamonster · 2008-03-14, 18:01

If they were on Riful's level why didn't they take her out when they had her alone like they did to Agatha? Because they could not. Escaping was possible. Winning against Riful was not. They could only get those wounded claymores out of there. Miria's reaction when she senses Riful is enough to show it off.

Tempest35 · 2008-03-14, 18:07

Speaking of the 'cult for Miria'...

I think it means this:
(random #1) + Group of 3 = 100%
Miria + Group of 3 = 100%

Miria's like a 'stat booster' unit. When she's on the field, allies are 25% more resistant to confuse; chance of dodging/counterattack +15% - things like that. So everyone on the field with her ends up performing as if the #1 rank herself was leading them personally.

Slick_rick · 2008-03-14, 18:19

Their main goal against Riful was rescuing the Organization's Claymores not getting into a fight. I don't think they want to risk a hard battle with Riful where they could possibly getting killed or lose members. They killed Agatha because she was trashing the city and much weaker than Riful so they knew they weren't in much danger. We don't know the 7's goals right now but I doubt they wanted to get into a conflict with Riful this early. Right now all we know is they trying to gather information about the organization and abysmal ones and possibly trying to recruit more. Go into a battle with Riful would have been a horrible idea. I still think they would have a chance to win but its not a battle they should be going into without preparation. Miria reaction tells me she knows it would be a tough battle and probably one they would lose.

zato_1one · 2008-03-14, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Speaking of the 'cult for Miria'...

I think it means this:
(random #1) + Group of 3 = 100%
Miria + Group of 3 = 100%

Miria's like a 'stat booster' unit. When she's on the field, allies are 25% more resistant to confuse; chance of dodging/counterattack +15% - things like that. So everyone on the field with her ends up performing as if the #1 rank herself was leading them personally.

I like your theory.

Miria has devotion aura +5 armor, endurance aura +20% attack speed, command aura +30% damage and unholy aura +25% regeneration. That's why she's the best in group.

chibamonster · 2008-03-14, 18:35

I think that would hold true for the Miria we see in Pieta, whose organization skills are really to thank for any success at all. But I do not think that same bit holds true for Miria's leadership earlier in the series as in the slashers arc. For having such a huge advantage in a group Miria did not really go all out and attack until she was the only one left meaning she lost that advantage. She tested Clare to see if she was strong but did not know the abilities of Helen or Deneve and in the end they all ended up facing off against the 6 armed AB individually, not as an organized group. No leadership is involved with everyone doing whatever they want. Helen and Deneve seemed more organized because they were friends than because of any leadership involved.

I do think Miria showed great concern for her comrades by saving them and going in alone, but she was not leading anyone except by morale example. I think she is a very good person. It seems though in real pinches she tends to freeze up and have difficulty deciding what to do. A very simmilar situation happened with Rigardo. Yuma and Clare attacked him (and failed) and then Helen, Clare and Deneve got in front of him before Miria even moved. I think she struggles with quick decisions when things take a turn for the worst, which actually makes me empathize with her more. I do not think it is a bad thing, but a human characteristic that she has. Her mind was probably racing trying to figure out what to do now that her plan had gone down in flames. For being the claymore with the fastest speed she should have been there first, but she was not.

Tempest35 · 2008-03-14, 18:46

Well, I can say this, she was not only shocked by their quarry being a male AB, but also at the fact that both Helen and Deneve were displaying abilities far above what their ranking suggested. That and then the male AB dropped the info bombshell that got Miria's brain going into hyper-processing mode. So she was going, "Wut?...Wut?...Wut?' during the first 1/3 of the fight.

That and who could have really reigned in Helen once Deneve got hurt?

Slick_rick · 2008-03-14, 18:58

I doubt Helen and Deneve would have mention that ever since they partially awakened they are able to have super stretch arms and amazing regen abilities respectfully. Also that male awakened was able to intercept them before they reach the destination so it took them all by surprise because he knew they were coming. Not to mention that he was much stronger than what they were expecting and you can't blame her for Rigaldo he came out of nowhere and just started killing people hard to make a plan up when in the 5 secs he took to kill all the other captains.

2008-03-14, 13:03	Link #1141
chibamonster 'S' Class Fairy Tail Join Date: Jun 2007	@Fenrir: I agree that a rank is very important to a claymore for the same reasons. Some seem proud of it and some seem not to care. Ranking is very important in a claymore's working relationship with their comrades. In the extra chapter with Miria it seemed to be her actual phantom ability that made her better in group battles, and has nothing to do with her leadership because she was not leading at the time. I was thinking more along the lines of does this mean Miria is as devastating as number 1 in a group or does it mean that #1 really is not good in a group at all? Or is it just saying that in a team setting Miria's ability is far more powerful? Alicia does not seem like a team player, and she has no leadership skills (or at least is kept in the organization so she has no chance to use them) so being a better leader than her would not be an accomplishment. Miria might just excel when she has team mates because it covers any weakness she has and allows her to exploit the weaknesses of others. That is why I am unsure why they mentioned it. __________________ Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-

2008-03-14, 13:56	Link #1144
zato_1one Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	In Extra 2, I think Miria might act as a leader at that time because Ophelia didn't participate in fight. __________________

2008-03-14, 15:57	Link #1147
chibamonster 'S' Class Fairy Tail Join Date: Jun 2007	This is exactly why I do not know what the more powerful than number one in a group means. The MiB were saying it about her before she was a single digit hence not the leader. No leadership is necessary against normal youma, although I guess it could be argued. I know there is the cult of miria that worships her as a tactician and a goddess, I am just curious why the organization references her to number 1 specifically. Whatever they mean it is obviously quite an accomplishment of some sort. If it is a leadership issue then being better than 1 is no accomplishment at all and not worth mentioning. I do not think Miria feels better and is suddenly physically powerful because she has someone else with her holding her hand. The idea I have is that her ability is more suited for a group environment as someone else said. Much like Galatea's ability only worked when Duff did not know what was happening and was unsure of himself or when he was being distracted by multiple opponents. Galatea's youki manipulation ability would also excel in a group environment, but not enough to say she is more powerful than number 1. Whatever they are insinuating I hope they mean that Alicia is still potent in a group, but gets no advantage and that Miria is able to use her ability in a team setting to her advantage. It seems to me that better than number 1 in a group is quite an achievement of some sort. If they do mean actual leadership then it is disappointing to me because Alicia does not seem like real competition. __________________ Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-

2008-03-14, 16:50	Link #1150
khryoleoz Power of 9 SoShi-ist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA	Well, I don't think it's that hard to understand what the org meant. Miria's own strength is not augmented to the level of Alicia just because Clare, Jean, Deneve, Helen and 19 others have got her back covered, which calms her nerves so that she can unleash her Abyssal Powers. It makes more sense that such a group led by Miria has a potential to rival the power of a number 1. I'm thinking that whoever it was that originally said that of Miria must have said it not taking into account what Alicia would be upon her completion. The 24, save for the 7 who played dead, were killed. Alicia on the other hand slaughtered all the ABs who were sent after the org. Post-time skip, the 7 are stronger, but still not (at least I don't think) an Abyssal force as Alicia is. Last edited by khryoleoz; 2008-03-14 at 21:42.

2008-03-14, 18:01	Link #1154
chibamonster 'S' Class Fairy Tail Join Date: Jun 2007	If they were on Riful's level why didn't they take her out when they had her alone like they did to Agatha? Because they could not. Escaping was possible. Winning against Riful was not. They could only get those wounded claymores out of there. Miria's reaction when she senses Riful is enough to show it off. __________________ Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-

2008-03-14, 16:12	Link #1148
hell88 Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada, but sometimes in La La-Land hanging out with Midori-chan89 Age: 35	The way how Miria and the other ghosts have all gotten stronger from all there training together, that would probably make Miria even better in group battles. If she is, she is probably the most dangerous member of the ghosts in battle. Well mabye besides Clare who could probably awaken in any battle.

2008-03-14, 16:45	Link #1149
Slick_rick Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia, Pa	I believe the reason Miria is compared to number 1 in a group setting is probably because of both her leadership and ability. We have seen when she has to fights 1 on 1 with Awakened being like in the Slashers arc and against Rigaldo her mirage is used mostly as defense because she doesn't have the sensing like Clare and is not normally very fast without it. In a group she would be able to use it much more offensively and it seems very powerful when used this way. Also her leadership allows her to take advantage of all her teammates while we have seen most other Claymore who tend to only utilize the stronger claymore while telling the weaker to stand aside.

2008-03-14, 17:29	Link #1151
hell88 Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada, but sometimes in La La-Land hanging out with Midori-chan89 Age: 35	Something else about Miria in leading groups is that she can be welcoming to her teamates which probably gives them hope when going into battle and it makes it easier for them to take orders from her, unlike some single didgits where they are more cold and just say something like "lets get this over with if you die you die."

2008-03-14, 17:52	Link #1152
azurie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Alabama, USA	well as you have seen Miria has this nack of bring the most out of people she can take a #47 and make that #47 fight like a #30 or better or so it seems just by bringing out the best of that person. That's just my view of her leadership skills and how she brings out qualities in people that they themselvs never knew they had.

2008-03-14, 17:58	Link #1153
Slick_rick Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia, Pa	Well in Defense of the 24 who fought in the north all of the stronger claymore where killed/injured by Rigaldo and they were facing 20 plus awakened. Alicia had to deal with much weaker awakened and far less. Alicia might have her had a tough battle if Rigaldo was there with those other awakened. And its obvious they weren't talking about an awakened Alicia because awakened #1 as we have seen are on a completely different scale than other awakened and generally claymores don't compare to normal awakened much less a #1. The 7 ghosts after that the time-skip made Agatha look like childs play so I believe they can stand up to Riful/Alicia/Isley because of the combined abilities of the team and excellent teamwork they have shown. I don't know if they would win but I bet they'd likely take heavy casualties. I don't see them on the level of Priscilla though.

2008-03-14, 18:07	Link #1155
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Speaking of the 'cult for Miria'... I think it means this: (random #1) + Group of 3 = 100% Miria + Group of 3 = 100% Miria's like a 'stat booster' unit. When she's on the field, allies are 25% more resistant to confuse; chance of dodging/counterattack +15% - things like that. So everyone on the field with her ends up performing as if the #1 rank herself was leading them personally. __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2008-03-14, 18:19	Link #1156
Slick_rick Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia, Pa	Their main goal against Riful was rescuing the Organization's Claymores not getting into a fight. I don't think they want to risk a hard battle with Riful where they could possibly getting killed or lose members. They killed Agatha because she was trashing the city and much weaker than Riful so they knew they weren't in much danger. We don't know the 7's goals right now but I doubt they wanted to get into a conflict with Riful this early. Right now all we know is they trying to gather information about the organization and abysmal ones and possibly trying to recruit more. Go into a battle with Riful would have been a horrible idea. I still think they would have a chance to win but its not a battle they should be going into without preparation. Miria reaction tells me she knows it would be a tough battle and probably one they would lose.

2008-03-14, 18:35	Link #1158
chibamonster 'S' Class Fairy Tail Join Date: Jun 2007	I think that would hold true for the Miria we see in Pieta, whose organization skills are really to thank for any success at all. But I do not think that same bit holds true for Miria's leadership earlier in the series as in the slashers arc. For having such a huge advantage in a group Miria did not really go all out and attack until she was the only one left meaning she lost that advantage. She tested Clare to see if she was strong but did not know the abilities of Helen or Deneve and in the end they all ended up facing off against the 6 armed AB individually, not as an organized group. No leadership is involved with everyone doing whatever they want. Helen and Deneve seemed more organized because they were friends than because of any leadership involved. I do think Miria showed great concern for her comrades by saving them and going in alone, but she was not leading anyone except by morale example. I think she is a very good person. It seems though in real pinches she tends to freeze up and have difficulty deciding what to do. A very simmilar situation happened with Rigardo. Yuma and Clare attacked him (and failed) and then Helen, Clare and Deneve got in front of him before Miria even moved. I think she struggles with quick decisions when things take a turn for the worst, which actually makes me empathize with her more. I do not think it is a bad thing, but a human characteristic that she has. Her mind was probably racing trying to figure out what to do now that her plan had gone down in flames. For being the claymore with the fastest speed she should have been there first, but she was not. __________________ Tests for my graphic novel -> http://dragonfury0.deviantart.com/ <-

2008-03-14, 18:46	Link #1159
Tempest35 Awe of She Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Orlando	Well, I can say this, she was not only shocked by their quarry being a male AB, but also at the fact that both Helen and Deneve were displaying abilities far above what their ranking suggested. That and then the male AB dropped the info bombshell that got Miria's brain going into hyper-processing mode. So she was going, "Wut?...Wut?...Wut?' during the first 1/3 of the fight. That and who could have really reigned in Helen once Deneve got hurt? __________________ "Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."

2008-03-14, 18:58	Link #1160
Slick_rick Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philadelphia, Pa	I doubt Helen and Deneve would have mention that ever since they partially awakened they are able to have super stretch arms and amazing regen abilities respectfully. Also that male awakened was able to intercept them before they reach the destination so it took them all by surprise because he knew they were coming. Not to mention that he was much stronger than what they were expecting and you can't blame her for Rigaldo he came out of nowhere and just started killing people hard to make a plan up when in the 5 secs he took to kill all the other captains.