Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

Originally Posted by Admiral Larsen

No what I meant was (and perhaps this is influenced by my hate and anger of the old cast) that Shin would have been the judge, jury and executioner since he and perhaps others who work with him are the results of the reckless and stupid actions of the old characters. In other words he would have made sure that the old characters would have paid the piper for their stupid and insane actions.

What reckless, stupid and insane actions did the old characters do?

[Destined_Fate]

How the heck is it that the the youtube comments "sane" compared to that mess! So much rage!

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Junius Seven treaty's out the window. Whatever they came up with afterwards is not the same, since in practice the treaty did nothing. They didn't just return to status quo with Lacus in charge. It's a whole new world. And they'd likely keep them all in service for the next major crisis that they are no doubt expecting (since Kira and Lacus knew that by taking out Durandal they'd be opening up to the door for more conflict. They were prepared to fight that. Kira said so himself.)

Besides they already used SF and IJ to escort Lacus to Plant to be sworn in as shown in the Final Plus. She's keeping them.

I don't think it's that simple. Junius Seven treaty failed, but nuclear powerd mobile suits have only been used in the later parts of the 1st and the 2nd bloody valentine war when things had escalated to the point of no return. It did for example keep ZAFT from equipping the Impulse and the other second stage serie mobile suits with nuclear reactors and NJC. So in times of peace the treaty kind of did keep the two sides from starting an nuclear arms race.

Lacus cannot maintain peace with three nuclear powered mobile suits in active duty for ZAFT. She either had to decommission the three mobile suits or share the reactor technology with EA and Orb since apparently they haven't quite figured out how build compact nuclear reactors, if she doesn't than the EA has a good excuse to explore nuclear technology on their own for military use in the name of self-defense and nothing good can come out of that.

[BladeEntity]

Just watched the Episode, definitely pumped me up for the next episode, the old zaft elites next to the new ones.

[Paladinoras]

The only way Lacus is going to decommission the suits is by basically destroying them right in front of EA and Orb representatives. Any other way and they'll be afraid that Lacus would treat them the same way she did Freedom -> underground storage, used in case of emergencies.

Then it's time for Kira's ZGMF-X1000A Gouf Freedom Ignited to take center stage. BRING IT

[Aquaman OS]

Orb doesn't care since Cagalli runs the place herself now (everyone that wasn't an Atha loyalist died during the Zaft invasion. How convinient) and of course she'll let her brother and boyfriend keep their nuclear Gundams that were the only reason Orb is still standing. In fact considering Athrun still works for Orb, they've already got IJ. So they have a nuclear Gundam right there.

EA is a different story, but they're so devastaed thanks to Durandal, that they'll likely agree with anything Zaft and Orb say so long as they keep getting aid.

Yeah. Lacus and Cagalli rule the world. The Gundam's aren't going anywhere.

[S.Freedom]

Yeah, considering recent history Lacus/Cagalli would be stupid to destroy the S.Freedom, I.Justice, and Destiny. They're ZAFT/Orbs trump cards to keep the EA in line after everything they've done. Besides, it can always be stipulated those three units can be the only one to exist.

@Kaito-kid Why would Lacus have to share nuclear reactor tech with EA? Shouldn't they already have that after getting their hands on the Freedom & Justices' specs during the first war. And why would the EA think Destiny's power plant was any different from that of the Freedoms?

[monster]

Actually, Lacus and Cagalli would welcome the idea of not using nuclear weapons during peace time. It's just that Lacus would also cover her bases by keeping nuclear-powered weapons that already exist stored somewhere, if only because she can't trust other countries not to do the same.

[Aquaman OS]

Cagalli might, but Lacus and Kira seemed to understand very clearly that by stopping Durandal, it wasn't a question of if violence would break out again, but when. As a result I highly doubt they'd even store SF. Better to have it promiantly displayed as a sign of power and deterant. And just to show that Lacus and Kira aren't simply only in it for themselves, and view everyone outside their group of friends as potential enemies, they'd rebuild Destiny, and give it back to Shinn, a known Durandal loyalist and former enemy, to show no hard feelings, and they trust the rest of the world to act responsibily. In fact I'm pretty sure Lacus wouldn't object to EA building nuclear mobile suits. If they step out of line (and that's a bad idea since the Destiny war left many of them devastated) then Lacus only needs dispatch the Yamato team to deal with them. And if they aren't enough, the nation of Orb is also on hand as an ally.

As for Cagalli, I'm pretty sure if Athrun wants to keep IJ she'll let him. But I think even Cagalli learned her lesson from Destiny that in order to keep the world peaceful without Durandal holding everyone at Requiem point to do what he tells them do, they all have to fight to maintain it.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Cagalli might, but Lacus and Kira seemed to understand very clearly that by stopping Durandal, it wasn't a question of if violence would break out again, but when. As a result I highly doubt they'd even store SF. Better to have it promiantly displayed as a sign of power and deterant.

Yes, but they still must balance reality with their ideals. Prominently displaying nuclear weapons is just asking for trouble. Storing it shows a preference for peace while not being powerless if/when they do need the power.

As for Cagalli, I'm pretty sure if Athrun wants to keep IJ she'll let him. But I think even Cagalli learned her lesson from Destiny that in order to keep the world peaceful without Durandal holding everyone at Requiem point to do what he tells them do, they all have to fight to maintain it.

Actually, the Infinite Justice belongs to Lacus. Athrun won't have a say in the matter if Lacus decides to store it.

Then again, I doubt Athrun would mind if the idea is to limit the use of nuclear weapons. He was fine with the Saviour, after all.

[S.Freedom]

I'm not saying they wouldn't welcome preventing the use of nuclear weapons. And I'm sure they'd do everything in their combined power to eliminate nuclear powered weapons.

However, Lacus would be pragmatic enough to have units like the S.Freedom and Destiny readily at hand. On the off chance her and Cagalli's best efforts aren't enough to prevent another war.

@monster Try thinking of units like S.Freedom, I.Justice, and Destiny the same way nukes are here in the real world. Sure our nukes aren't as prominently displayed as the S.Freedom is. However merely knowing we have them and are willing to use them has prevented others from using them. That's the deterrence factor at work. The EA in it's current state can't afford to act in such a way as to cause Lacus to actually deploy Kira/Shin in "anger" as it where.

Besides, your forgetting that the main instigators of war namely Logolos has been all but destroyed. As such more moderate leaders such as those from Euroaasia, the Republic of East Asia, the Kingdom of Scandinavia, and Orb will have the power to effect change without interference.

[monster]

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

However, Lacus would be pragmatic enough to have units like the S.Freedom and Destiny readily at hand. On the off chance her and Cagalli's best efforts aren't enough to prevent another war.

Well, that's what I said. It's basically like the Freedom post SEED: have it ready, but don't actually use it unless necessary.

Although, since Kira would be a part of the ZAFT military now, he would have more options in terms of mobile suits. Depending on the technological advances, he might not even need the Strike Freedom.

Try thinking of units like S.Freedom, I.Justice, and Destiny the same way nukes are here in the real world. Sure our nukes aren't as prominently displayed as the S.Freedom is. However merely knowing we have them and are willing to use them has prevented others from using them. That's the deterrence factor at work. The EA in it's current state can't afford to act in such a way as to cause Lacus to actually deploy Kira/Shin in "anger" as it where.

First, we're talking about a world where nukes aren't just a deterrent anymore. They're weapons that have been used in the past two wars. For the people living in that kind of world, the only way they can feel safe is if the nukes are banned from being deployed in the military.

Second, the nuclear-powered mobile suits have never been shown to be a deterrent for governments. Their response would only be to make their own mobile weapons, nuclear-powered or not. The real deterrence is simply the strength of your military. The majority of mobile suits are not nuclear powered, so there's no need to keep the Strike Freedom simply as deterrence.

Besides, your forgetting that the main instigators of war namely Logolos has been all but destroyed. As such more moderate leaders such as those from Euroaasia, the Republic of East Asia, the Kingdom of Scandinavia, and Orb will have the power to effect change without interference.

As Durandal said, LOGOS was only taking advantage of people's ignorance and ambitions. As long as these still exist, some other troublemakers could rise to power.

[Skye629]

I dont think Athrun will ever care about what they do to the IJ

Considering he does not seem to have any attachments to his suits whatsoever (lol poor Aegis and Justice)

[S.Freedom]

I wouldn't say he doesn't care. Just that he's pragmatic or rational about things. If he feels sacrificing part or all of his suit to achieve a mission that just what he'll do.

[monster]

Finally watched the episode, and as Athrun said to Lunamaria, it's not like Cagalli doesn't know anything. That still doesn't excuse Yolant for making that insensitive remark. And for Shinn to expect anyone else to understand that Yolant wasn't being serious was surprising, especially when he then gets angry that Athrun would even suggests that he's being angry over something trivial.

[The American Average]

A thing i found funny with Yolant, is thats about all the important stuff his does. I really don't remember Yolant doing anything else through the rest of Destiny, you can see him in the background and stuff though.
I do agree with monster with Shinn response to cagalli and athrun, i never looked at it from that standpoint he mentioned.

[Paladinoras]

The Yamato team sounds so awesome, who do you guys think will be in it?

Shinn, Lunamaria and Kira (duh) are pretty much locks. Athrun is in Orb, so there's no chance he's available, although I guess he can be an honorary co-captain of sorts.

I doubt he'll take anyone from the Joule team, or integrate the teams, so I'm guessing new characters would have to be created.

[Aquaman OS]

Kira Shinn and Luna and the Dom trio. With maybe Andy in an advisor type position, and probably Dacosta as a crewman. Maybe the rest of the Minerva crew. They might have some other faceless grunts but I don't expect them to do much more than die quickly. They'll likely keep the Doms and Gundams, and either operate out of Eternal or Minerva, or both.

Athrun will probably work for Orb, and show up later on with AA to back Yamato team up.

[Washu-Chan]

Do you think that Shinn's story is really over, post-Final Plus?

Given that I think that Destiny is more of Athrun's story than Shinn's, and the TV Movies was told from Athrun's POV, I think that Shinn's story is far from over.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Do you think that Shinn's story is really over, post-Final Plus?

There's no sequel confirmed for Destiny currently. So everyone's story, including Shinn's, is over for now.

Well, actually, it's over post Destiny TV movie IV.