[Manga] Chapter 230 Discussion

[Last of the Uchiha]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

By the way, there wasn't even a hint at next week's manga. I've never seen that before. It just said "END."

I saw that also and it worries me, like what they did when chidori and rasengan collided. There better be a chapter next week or else.

[Merco]

I liked this chapter, the whole direction, while being somewhat predictable in the power up effect, still has room for surprises. At this point, we're still not sure who's going to win this game.

Here's a bit of a prediction on my part though:

I think Sasuke's still going to use his lvl 3 Sharingan, and Naruto's premonition shadow will seem to look the same as it skips ahead... Sasuke lets his guard down thinking, all he has is extra power and he can handle it so long as Naruto doesn't touch him.

Then Bam, right before Naruto comes up to Sasuke, he spits apart into 10 shadows simultaneously... and it's up to Sasuke to guess which one is the right one.

[Hunter]

A huge bunch of Kage Bunshin would be indeed a good way to surmount the Sharingan, Sasuke could see the pattern of all the clones but they could come in too many directions to be all avoided.

About Sasuke using the Kage Bunshin... I don't know.
Even if it's the signature move of Naruto, it's a jutsu used by other people already so I think that if Sasuke ever uses it, it would be at the very end of the fight, to lure Naruto with his own jutsu would be quite devastating for him.

But right now it doesn't seem that Naruto will use some new trick with the Kage Bunshin, he fights only with pure raw power and each power boosts he received made him rely even more on this raw power...

[Zek]

Sasuke doesn't have the chakra to use Kage Bunshin like Naruto does. It's a Jounin level technique for a reason.

[Genei Killua]

Perhaps Sasuke can do kage bunshin. But just because he has sharingan doesn't mean he can do it. It is, after all, a jounin-level technique. He might not have the skill to do it yet. Not to say he couldn't after practicing a little while, but to just -do- it without ever having practiced it, it's just not definite.

Also, people are concluding too certainly that Naruto couldn't summon any large frog less than Gamabunta based off old data. Jiraiya said that only at Naruto's very first summoning of Gamabunta. Of course he'd over do it when he's falling down a canyon! He'd never really done it before, so give him a break. Besides, he's summoned Gamabunta once since then, and seriously tried once more. So we know he's at least a little bit more used to it than at his -first- time. While there is the definite possibility that he can't really regular it his summoning that well at this point, it's not a fact that he can only summon either Gamabunta or a whining snack-hungry overgrown tadpole.

About the list of jutsus, well, that's kinda stupid. Somebody could bandy lists back and forth, and it doesn't really matter at this point. Sasuke is bound to have more jutsus, anyway. That's sorta the mark, y'know, of a sharingan user. What matters in for a ninja fighting a sharingan user is what jutsus he has that are uncopyable.

Personally, I didn't really like the depiction of how the sharingan predicts movement. It seems, well, to put it bluntly, stupid. Naruto throws a punch, and Sasuke with the ULMIGHTY SHARINGAN predicts that it's coming right at his face. Gasp. Wow. How retarded. I much rather liked the idea (which still is probably true anyway) that the sharingan just slows everything down so much that the user can make his own prediction about move specifics. But honestly, in a fight with a taijutsu user as crappy as Naruto, it's not as if he needs that great of a prediction ability.

[Ketsueki]

Also I think copying a Jounin level technique with a undeveloped Sharingan is a bit illogical, seeing as the sharingan only allows sasuke to copy the hand seals which are only part of using a technique. I'm not saying he couldn't learn it, but I doubt he can copy it (maybe with his sharingan now, but not with the sharingan he had before)... well, he can't copy it at his current level, maybe when he becomes a better ninja (a' la Kakashi, who can copy many techniques, even ones which are only just being preformed in front of him there and then)

Originally Posted by Genei Killua

that the sharingan just slows everything down so much that the user can make his own prediction about move specifics. But honestly, in a fight with a taijutsu user as crappy as Naruto, it's not as if he needs that great of a prediction ability.

Thats probably true, Sasuke is seeing a lot faster and thinking a heck of a lot faster so he's perception of time makes everything a lot slower than it really is.

[zarkand]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

By the way, there wasn't even a hint at next week's manga. I've never seen that before. It just said "END."

I saw that too, but 228 didn't have a hint at the bottom either, but there was still a chapter the next week.

[bLizz4rD]

It is also possible.. that naruto goes berserk.

Sasuke then realise that Naruto is no longer naruto

sasuke then fears naruto and runs away from naruto

naruto while hunting sasuke runs amok and tears up anything in the path?

[zarkand]

It would take something big (like really transforming into a demon) to get Sasuke to run from Naruto. At this point it seems Sasuke is still wondering just what Naruto is. He doesn't really fear whats happening to Naruto, he just seems nervous about it.

[yinstro]

what the point of inflating peoples skill lists? and what does it matter? the only real techniques these ninja have, are the basic genin level techniques, and for naruto kage bushin rasengen, one summon. sasuke, lees taijutsu style, chidori, and some katon techniques. uchiha mentioning possible jutsus, why noy just say mange? and naruto can summon any frog.... its pointless talking about justus they may have but have been hiding

Anyhow, naruto is learning nothing this fight, and he sucking, depending on raw power, and sadly it isnt enough, its getting him beat up. he totally forgot what kakashi taught him, ninja is supposed to think beyond teh normal. As far as all their power ups, i dont think byakugan is considered a lesser bloodline limit, and it appears neiji had an adult level of use with his, so now sasuke has merely caught up. as far as 3 eye sharingan, before itachi there was a whole section of the village full of them, at least 5 other users. So sasukes current level of sharingan doesnt seperate him greatly from the better genin. of course if neiji is dead that seperates him pretty far. Shika would still use any abilities at his disposal so much better than them. etc. This fight seems so overpowered because they are both genin, seen throug the eyes of a 6 yearold another 6 year olds punch may seem super, but on an adult its usually laughable. Not to say they are weaklings, but most of this fight would never have happened versus more talented fighters

[NeoKakashi]

I thought this chapter was pretty good, but it left me wanting more! (Well, I guess anything good does that.)
I think that the seal might have broken, or at least somewhat. It's definitly not a leak of Kyuubi Chakra like when he fought Haku, it seems way bigger.

[abazou]

This is getting too slow

[Blind Io]

Personaly I enjoyed the chapter. What I dont understand is how people's memory can be so selective when thier favorite character is envolved.

Number one, Naruto is nowhere near the fastest GENIN yet, Kyubi powerup or none, Lee, Neji, and yes Sasuke are still far faster than Naruto, and I know you will say "but why was Naruto able to beat teh crap outa Sasuke and Neji?" Well, for one Naruto had a power advantage, and the element of suprise. Neither Sasuke nor Neji were anticpating the sudden increase in speed and power of the dropout. Naruto, up to that point had displayed no level of ability even close to what he did. Second, Naruto has been punching through his opponents guards, and then punching again before his opponent can recover from the first punch. That isnt speed, thats power and rhythm.

Number two, Sasuke spent his time during the preperation for the final exam honing his taijusu skills and mastering the chidori because without Lee's level of taijusu in conjunction with the penetration power of the chidori sasuke would have been absolutely screwed. What does this mean? Sasuke's taijusu is AT LEAST on par with Lee's. He may not have the Gate opening abilities but thats what makes Lee special. I dont see why everyone believes Sasuke had some miraculous leap forward in his speed, he just recognised that he cant block a punch from Naruto, so he evades them. His three dot sharingan just helps him keep up.

Number three, everyone saying somehow Sasuke got some power boost just because he "seemingly" punched Naruto off the cliff? Guess what? It wouldnt be that hard to do, first of all you have to think of the basic physics envolved, Naruto is moving upwards against the pull of gravity, he has to exert more force just to get to Sasuke, while Sasuke on the other hand is moving downwards, multiplieing any force he's putting behind his punch by the factor of gravity. Also, once Naruto's feet leave the cliffside gravity says "hey stop cheating!" and sends him FALLING, not FLYING as some of you percieve.

Number four, alot of people are complaining about Naruto's "limitless" chakara. As you have all already seen, it only gets him so far. It increases his speed and strength but this usualy only brings him to par with his opponent, Naruto doesnt have the control much less the capacity to bring about a constant stream of chakara from Kyubi. He can keep powering up and powering up but he does reach a limit. He canot use even one billionth of the kyubi's power without blowing himself up, its been stated before. Also, the kyubi's power isnt a fountain of power. Its a well, Naruto has to send a bucket down to bring some of that power to the surface, and in the process he spills about 80% of it. This is why you get these visualy stunning yet practicaly useless things like the disembodied Kyubi head and the tails of chakara. The container is too small for the contents so it leaks out. With this in mind, Naruto's at his greatest strength just after a "Kyubi-fication" and at his weakest right before another "powerup". Suddenly Sasuke holding Naruto underwater by just his leg doesnt seem so rediculous anymore, Naruto was completely drained.

Number five, people seem to think that Neji, Lee, Shikamaru, Chouji and that guy with the dog (sorry I cant remember his name at the moment) are being passed by Sasuke and Naruto, I say your so very very very wrong. Naruto and Sasuke have shown little to no higher level thinking in this fight, whereas all the "minor" characters have displayed amazing ability ( Lee, Gara, Chouji) superb control of a situation ( Shika) amazing NEW techniques (Dog boy) and remarkable knoledge of their own ability and how to best use it ( Neji). What have Sasuke and Naruto shown in this fight? That they can both get back up after being beaten around like a sack of potatoes and that they can both use brain dead strategies like "omgzors I punch you in the FACE!". Despite great physical ability, Naruto and Sasuke are , in my opinion, the weakest of all the characters at the moment. They just look impressive.

Yeah, first post on the boards, and I rant about what everyone seems to overlook. This'll make me real popular.


Btw, my favorite character is every character that isnt Sasuke/Naruto/Kakashi/Gai/ Jounin level or above. They are just so much more unpredictable.

[P-Virus]

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

First of all, Kyuubi isn't a God, and the fact that he was captured by the Fourth further prove this. He is strong but not impossible to kill or capture. Second, Kyuubi is captured inside of Naruto which means that he can't use his full power, as stated by Jiraiya, because of his small body. Even when Naruto grows up, it will be impossible to control all that chakra, because it will make him explode. Kyuubi is too much of a being to to fully controll his chakra, let alone his powers. Third, Kyuubi isn't like a bloodline, sharingan is a bloodline. You could compare the Kyuubi to the cursed seal, because they are artificial power.

lets make a review to what you just said "Even when Naruto grows up, it will be impossible to control all that chakra, because it will make him explode." show one place in the manga where I can find this you just said .. Man I been reading a lot of you r post around the forum and you have the tendenci to imagine things , things that are not happening yet , please base your post in the facts ...

You are right kyuubi is not a GOd he is the opossite to that a DEMON FOX wich make him second in power, dont you remember ?? volume 01 Chapter 01 page 5 : " Once appeared a ninetails DEMON FOX. One swing of his MIGHTY tail could crumble mountains and cause tsunamis . To fight the demon the people of assembled the shinobi. One brave shinobi was able to seal up the demon but he lost his life. That shinobi was called th 4th hokage " Notice here that this demon didnt die he was just captured or seal up ,seal up is not the same as beat up and in the process 4th died , kyuubi was way to fuken strong for the 4th to kill.
is ovbious that the 4th is weak with the kyuubi as an oponent , but the 4th was smart he figured out a way to seal him . notice the difference? smarter not stronger.

Originally Posted by Last of the Uchiha

Are you kidding me? Naruto always relies on Kyuubi and the fact that his chakra is merging with Kyuubi every time. Sasuke's sharingan are natural. You have to understand that Kyuubi is artificvial and sharingan is not, and that a fact that no matter in what way you want to see it, you can't denied it that Naruto wasn't born with Kyuubi and Sasuke was born with his bloodline, hence blood. The series is called Naruto, but if you haven't been paying attention, Sasuke is the other main character, just as important as Naruto, that if it wasn't for Sasuke, there wouldn't be any Naruto series, as stated by the author.

bloodline and kyuubi are similar in the fact that they were there in the moment they were born , as i said before sasuke and naruto didnt ask for them . it wasnt sasuke's or naruto's choice.

"that if it wasn't for Sasuke, there wouldn't be any Naruto series, as stated by the author" <--- give a link for that

[OshadowO]

eehhhh this is getting horribly slow again. Kishimimoto San (sp?) is a horrible story teller at times :/
Well it seems like Naruto and Sasuke are getting uber strong now. Easily the strongest genins in the Leaf. That makes sense because they are the two main characters. However what I am not liking is that even though their power is increasin, it seems their tactics and thinking are rapidly decreasing. This is just a brawl. Can't we get something more interesting, like clever fights? Both Naruto and Sasuke have displayed strategy before and I always felt those fights matured their characters more than this silly "oooh me have more power now...me beat you up good" type of fight.
I really hope this fight gets beyond the "if you can powerup, so can I," stage soon. But I have a feeling we'll see Sasuke pull a level 2 cursed seal out of his hat at the end of next ish. *sigh*

[Timpen]

Hmm why do everyone say that Naruto is to stupid? He have done this in many fights, lets take the fight vs neji for an example. He starts out doing his normal stupid stuff, kage bunshin, powerup but then in the end he comes up with something very smart. In that case he came through the tunnel.

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by P-Virus

"that if it wasn't for Sasuke, there wouldn't be any Naruto series, as stated by the author" <--- give a link for that

http://www.brainfart.org/naruto/extr...-interview.htm

Q. What order did you create the characters?
A. First was Naruto. At that time the theme was something like "to be acknowledged." So I needed someone to acknowledge Naruto, so next born was Iruka. Once the world was set I figured the village needs a ruler so Hokage was created. And next Kakashi was created as Nartuo's teacher.
Q. Sasuke and Sakura were after that?
A. Yeah, without Sasuke the series just seemed to have no where to go. I was thinking this was bad and I'd get cancelled after ten weeks. *laugh* The editor then suggested creating a rival. And what was born was Sauske. I then figured a heroine was needed so I added Sakura. Then it became so easy to write the rough drafts. Since the main character and rival are always competing, it's easy to flesh out the characters. Like Goku and Kuririn from Dragonball. I wanted to make someone like Kuririn the main character. Since he's not perfect, it's easier, Like in Slam Dunk, which was great becasue the rival relationship was distinct.

Also I think copying a Jounin level technique with a undeveloped Sharingan is a bit illogical, seeing as the sharingan only allows sasuke to copy the hand seals which are only part of using a technique.

I wonder how that assumption got that popular ... It was NEVER said how the Sharingan copies jutsu, don't state your theory as a fact. Obviously, if it would copy nothing than hand seals, everyone could copy a jutsu (If you can see people who move faster than light, you should be able to see some handseals perfectly) and there were no logical explanation how someone copies taijutsu.

[hokagenaruto3]

But in all those smart cases, he was weaker then his opponents at the time.
Now he is stronger than ever!!! If he could utilise his Kyuubi chakra more efficiently he wouldn't fight so crappy.
he doesn't need schemes anymore, because he is stronger/fatser/more agile now. He needs new jutsu, like that underworld swamp kind of thing.
But now he's surrounded by chakra and it looks like he's become one giant red Chidori with Kyuubi looks. I wouldn't touch him if I were Sasuke. i think Sasuke needs lon-range jutsu now.

Edit: I guess/hope we get a better explanation of the Jutsu copying aspect of the Sharingan

[neji-kun]

[QUOTE=Last of the Uchiha]First of all, Kyuubi isn't a God, and the fact that he was captured by the Fourth further prove this. He is strong but not impossible to kill or capture.


actually kyubi CANT be killed he just got captured by the fourth if that was the case kyuubi would no longer be alive, ill try to find whhere i read thisill get back to you.

[hokagenaruto3]

Kyuubi could crumble mountains by swirling his tail(probably with chakra) and casue tsunami's. No one could beat himself, that much is obvious.
But his is Naruto fighting.
If Kyuubi has now taken over, maybe we'll see Kyuubi-specific Jutsu.