(L) Log Horizon (novel)

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

I would think that Plant Hwyaden simply laid out ground rules, and whoever disagreed with it would get kicked out of the city or PK'ed and locked in the Cathedral. It's like Shiroe's plan, except on a much larger scale and without the consent of the other guilds.

Spoiler for non-translated info, spoilers gathered from earlier in the thread and from /a/:

Kazuhiko, one of the former DTP members, is now in Minami and tries to make sure that people are kept safe. Even though he's part of Plant Hwyaden, he runs on his own agenda (such as sending Tetra to help Shiroe so that Shiroe will turn his attention to Minami) and leads a group that essentially serves as his own private army.

As far as I'm concerned, Nureha could have been trying to capture Shiroe's attention. As it's stated in the novel, Akiba has little to no information about Minami's status. Nureha, who wants Shiroe, would want to capture his fashion in a more dramatic manner.

And imprisoning everyone who disagrees with you, for ever.
Worst that can happen to you in Shiroes method is being forced to walk to another player city to get your stuff out of the bank.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by J4n1

And imprisoning everyone who disagrees with you, for ever.
Worst that can happen to you in Shiroes method is being forced to walk to another player city to get your stuff out of the bank.

that was probably Shiroe felt buying the Guild Building was enough and the money to buy the Cathedral was beyond his capacity in the time allow.

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by J4n1

And imprisoning everyone who disagrees with you, for ever.

>PK'ed and locked in the Cathedral

I said that already.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that was probably Shiroe felt buying the Guild Building was enough and the money to buy Cathedral was beyond his capacity and in the time allow.

And he doesn't seem big on locking people up.
The worst part about cathedral lock is, that it has no escape, not even death, and without food you will keep dying and resurrecting again and again and again, for ever, slowly going insane.
Not to mention that you are locked in with lot of other people, not all of them necessarily nice to begin with, going insane as well.
Even if they are provided with food, the imprisonment in a cathedral is unlikely to be anything but horrible.

more i think about it, worse it becomes.

[Xellos-_^]

any word on when vol7 will be release?

[Naole]

Couldn't they use Call of home from the Cathedral to escape at odd hours like 2AM when there's probably less security?

I hear somewhere that there is the possibility of denying people resurrection is that accurate? though I suppose they might the revive at the closest other shrine.

And about the barrier in Akiba; it doesn't matter how powerful the adventures are in relation to low level monsters if the monsters are guided by an intelligent creature like the spirit that possessed the royal guard. To Overrun Akiba all that is necessary is the destruction of the Cathedral; once that critical building is lost the Adventures will have to abandon Akiba!

PH could come up with a plan for the destruction of the Akiba Cathedral; and the advantage PH in a new type of combat akin to Guild Wars.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Naole

Couldn't they use Call of home from the Cathedral to escape at odd hours like 2AM when there's probably less security?

I hear somewhere that there is the possibility of denying people resurrection is that accurate? though I suppose they might the revive at the closest other shrine.

And about the barrier in Akiba; it doesn't matter how powerful the adventures are in relation to low level monsters if the monsters are guided by an intelligent creature like the spirit that possessed the royal guard. To Overrun Akiba all that is necessary is the destruction of the Cathedral; once that critical building is lost the Adventures will have to abandon Akiba!

there are 15k adventures with only approximately 100 less then lvl40. This monster army would have to laid siege to Akiba to destroy the Cathedral. With so many high lvl summoner and Sorcs, any tight formation screams for a AoE spell. The Adventures can defeat a army 10x their number easily, to laid siege to Akiba you need a army 100x the number of adventures . For a army that size you would need to united all the monster in the Yamato server.

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

any word on when vol7 will be release?

It already has been. Or are you talking about the Chinese version?

Originally Posted by Naole

Couldn't they use Call of home from the Cathedral to escape at odd hours like 2AM when there's probably less security?

In Akiba, they put up night patrols that went around during early morning hours to keep watch for the murder. It's not impossible for people to be keeping watch outside the city so that if anyone uses Call of Home, they'll just get PK'ed. I presume, here, that there is only one gate in and out of the city, and that is where they would land at if they used Call of Home.

I hear somewhere that there is the possibility of denying people resurrection is that accurate? though I suppose they might the revive at the closest other shrine.

And about the barrier in Akiba; it doesn't matter how powerful the adventures are in relation to low level monsters if the monsters are guided by an intelligent creature like the spirit that possessed the royal guard. To Overrun Akiba all that is necessary is the destruction of the Cathedral; once that critical building is lost the Adventures will have to abandon Akiba!

People are debating, from Nureha's control over Cathedral and her "method of putting people back into the real world", that she is either keeping them trapped within the Cathedral or denies them revival completely. Shiroe noted that they don't know what happens to those people, all that is certain is that they have disappeared completely.


I think you're really, really overestimating the monsters, to be honest. Whether or not there is a Genius monster present (also, the sword was possessed by an Ancient, not a monster per se), it's possible for Adventurers to defeat them when they have a strategy. Nobody knows if it's even possible to destroy the Cathedral, anyhow.

Leonardo from the Greatest Party Ever (canon Overseas side-story) defeated a Genius that could constantly replenish its HP to the max with his Overskill; he only has 3 other kind-of players aiding him, and I'm not sure if they were aiding him or not. Considering that several of the main characters in Akiba have Overskills or have dormant/unlocked Overskills, and there are unnamed characters that have developed their own Overskills, I don't think it should be impossible for the Adventurers to defend the city.

Also, one of the Genius monsters encountered by the Greatest Party Ever could control other monsters (with tentacles!). They just kill the Genius and then finish off the monsters it was controlling, I believe.

[kuroishinigami]

No, the only reason leonard is able to fight one on one is because KR sacrifice himself to hold off the big dragon minion of the genius(and he wasn't abe to kill the dragon even with the sacrifice because it's raid boss evel IIRC), while on Kanami's side, they have the ancient npc to hold off the mob for her.

We don't know the full capabilities of the genius yet. If each of them are able to control multiple raid boss, overrunning player city might be possible for them.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

No, the only reason leonard is able to fight one on one is because KR sacrifice himself to hold off the big dragon minion of the genius(and he wasn't abe to kill the dragon even with the sacrifice because it's raid boss evel IIRC), while on Kanami's side, they have the ancient npc to hold off the mob for her.

We don't know the full capabilities of the genius yet. If each of them are able to control multiple raid boss, overrunning player city might be possible for them.

well Kanami's team was only 4 people, no matter how talented, it is still only 4.

Akiba with 15k adventures with +50% lvl90 or higher could handle multiple raid bosses.

[kuroishinigami]

Well, even among level 90 players, some of them(like Akatsuki, Marielle, Henrietta) are not geared enough for fighting raid monster, even moreso a legion raid monster(which took 100+ elite player to beat). But like I said, we still don't know the extent of Genius power, so we might have overestimate their power, or maybe even underestimate them instead

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Well, even among level 90 players, some of them(like Akatsuki, Marielle, Henrietta) are not geared enough for fighting raid monster, even moreso a legion raid monster(which took 100+ elite player to beat). But like I said, we still don't know the extent of Genius power, so we might have overestimate their power, or maybe even underestimate them instead

if Akiba is facing a army of monster lead by a few hundred raid boss. i am pretty sure phantasm Caliber weapons and armor are going to be passout to everyone who is capable of fighting.

i also seriously doubt there that are that legion raid bosses. Maybe a dozen at best since these type of quest aren't very popular because of the difficulty level.

[DQueenie13]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Well, even among level 90 players, some of them(like Akatsuki, Marielle, Henrietta) are not geared enough for fighting raid monster, even moreso a legion raid monster(which took 100+ elite player to beat). But like I said, we still don't know the extent of Genius power, so we might have overestimate their power, or maybe even underestimate them instead

Akiba still has four major battle guilds, two of which are among the server's best. Just DDD and BSK combined has around 1700 fighters. Add in WWB and Honesty, and that number bumps up to 2500. There are also plenty of small guilds and non-guild affiliated players that are also probably battle-ready.

When talking about large-scale combat, it isn't necessary for everyone to know how to fight/be prepared for legion raids. (And also, what does legion raid monsters have to do with this? Genius monsters are normal monsters that just have broken powers, they don't have the base stats of a legion raid, I don't believe. It really comes down to figuring out how to beat it rather than just sheer numbers.) Maryelle already proved during the Sahuagin attack that she's not completely clueless about fighting. She was vital for healing all the members. Henrietta's overskill ability hasn't been revealed, so we don't know what it does exactly, but it might come useful. If Charasin's Multi-Line improves communication efficiency, it could definitely help with formation and strategizing on the battlefield.

Although one thing that piques my interest is

Spoiler:

if in case there is such an attack, who would be good at short-term strategies, presuming that Krusty's still MIA at that time? And what will DDD do without its leader? Rieze notes in-story that unlike the BSK, a lot of DDD's members are pretty much novices and have to be taught everything and commanded everywhere in battle. With Krusty and Misa MIA, that means either Rieze or perhaps even another guild master might have to take control.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by DQueenie13

Although one thing that piques my interest is

Spoiler:

if in case there is such an attack, who would be good at short-term strategies, presuming that Krusty's still MIA at that time? And what will DDD do without its leader? Rieze notes in-story that unlike the BSK, a lot of DDD's members are pretty much novices and have to be taught everything and commanded everywhere in battle. With Krusty and Misa MIA, that means either Rieze or perhaps even another guild master might have to take control.

Ein, Honesty's Guild Master as the 2nd biggest battle guild would probably take command.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i really don't see much of a difference in how either city is run.

The biggest example of PH's inherent authoritarian issue is, they enforce a hierarchy of "citizen ranks".
Social stratification. A caste system.

Those are always ugly.

Even their council is ranked. Unlike the eleven guild masters of the Round Table all having equal voice, the ten council members of Plant Hwyden are ranked in order of hierarchy.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by aohige

The biggest example of PH's inherent authoritarian issue is, they enforce a hierarchy of "citizen ranks".
Social stratification. A caste system.

Those are always ugly.

Even their council is ranked. Unlike the eleven guild masters of the Round Table all having equal voice, the ten council members of Plant Hwyden are ranked in order of hierarchy.

To add on to what aohige has said,

Spoiler for In Minami:

Minami's system is one where the Adventurers enjoy good living at the expense of the common Landers, in contrast to Akiba's policy of relative equal standing between both parties.

The sad thing is that most of Minami's Adventurers chose to turn a blind eye to the Landers' sufferings. In this sense, they have not moved on from the Day the Catastrophe struck.

I think the irony is that, if we discount Nureha (who's pretty much Inctis' puppet), both Akiba and Minami's ruling councils were founded by former DTP members.

[Netto Azure]

Ironically we had this discussion of Akiba vs Minami governance systems a while back. One person argued that the Round Table council is just as authoritarian as Minami since it was imposed on the adventurers. While I argued that it is inherently democratic. (As representative democracy is the standard form of democracy nowadays. The Guilds are the representatives of adventurers per se. We use the terms republic and democracy interchangeably while of course they are different.)

[tsunade666]

I remember that discussion in 4chan. One said that Akiba is the same because the people didn't even vote for the leaders. Shiroe just impose on them the rule without any consent and if you disagree then leave akiba.

[Tenzen12]

More than half of Round table is composed by biggest guilds in their field of works. Which means guilds that has most members. That looks quite democratic to me.

[kyou13]

I doubt that allowing adventurers to vote for the leaders would creat a more democratic council.
The biggest guilds would surely occupied all the RT seats and I can't see that as a fair deal to the smaller guilds.
Still, I guess Shiro choosing 3 small guilds is rather forced. He said they will represent all the other small guilds, but well, I don't see how they do it in novel.