2010-03-22, 00:54 | Link #761 | ||
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 39
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But but Rajura, you wrote this: Quote:
I sure hope Madam Speaker has better reading comprehension. |
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2010-03-22, 01:02 | Link #762 | |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Personally, I think the hysteria is so overblown. It's like "Obama's gonna take away our guns!", which never happened. |
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2010-03-22, 01:03 | Link #763 |
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Whatever the doomsayers want to say, common sense still stands. The bill although flawed due to intense lobbying by insure companies and republicans, will be fixed gradually. The reform is huge and historic for a country where corporations control the government and much of the US.
This bill will save millions of lives over time... Now onto immigration reform.... LOL... I can't wait to see what kind of stunts Glenn Beck and his tea party will pull off to demonize immigrants. The funny thing is, most of them associate the word illegal immigrant with a person from Mexico... Yet there are millions of people from eastern Europe, the middle east, Africa and Asia that are illegals as well. Racism ftw. Edit: It is hilarious that in a country where the conservatives are a dwindling a minority and where Obama won the elections by a huge margin over McCain, to see how the small GOP, fox news and its tea party movement keep trying to manipulate the perception of the nation by constantly repeating how the majority of Americans are against the bill. Now they are proclaiming that it is the end of the world as we know it because Health care will never again be the lucrative business it used to be. My prediction is that the republicans will be utterly crushed come November elections. Their track record over the last 10 years... specially the last 14th months has been nothing short of appalling. PS. I am not a US citizen, or a Resident of this country... I just come here often for business, but I still love to follow American politics. Last edited by Sugetsu; 2010-03-22 at 03:32. |
2010-03-22, 01:06 | Link #764 | |
My wolfu is >> your waifu
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Charleston, West Virginia
Age: 42
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Try not to provoke the people with opposing views to wrath. However, I can appreciate the humor in how you referred to me there, and it does make me feel a bit better, thanks. I'm just not used to such unkind accusations from people. I just needed to vent my frustatration at the *************. (deleted for content we are not supposed to discuss... sorry). Venting is a great cathartic after all! (and I never use these smilie things so... consider it an honor)
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Last edited by Rajura; 2010-03-22 at 18:18. Reason: Accidently posted about things not supposed to be posted about |
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2010-03-22, 02:25 | Link #765 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Clara, California
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The problem with the modern media is that there is too much unnecessary information that makes a clear picture near impossible.
I'm just saying this from personal experience. The more visible aspects of the two sides on this issue seem to be having a more of shouting match than anything else. The current health care system does need an overhaul but with people shouting at the top of my lungs even the things I am clear about can get confusing if I don't pay close attention to my pereceptions and understanding from getting cloudy. Some of the News sites are saying this could prevent Obama from getting re-elected later. If that happens then it is because not enough people who actually honestly care about what's going on and how it affects them and the US are out voting. Sure, a lot of the people seen on TV and etc do care in their own perspective but regardless of how many people agree or disagree really go out to vote? Vote not just for the presidential election but other state and local elections or local props and etc in a organized fashion that reflects people's interests and reacting to the various actions taken by the politicians? Not enough. Yes, it's hard to keep up with everything but though many people got caught up in the moment during the last presidental election that had a African American man become the president of the United States keep up and followed through afterwards with more action? I know I am rambling but just look at the voting levels seen in the U.S. Voting is key. How and when you vote for everything does make a difference but since the U.S. is relatively peaceful and well off despite the troubles over the last several years not enough people are voting. Seriously, I sometimes wonder if the making being able to vote a right and privilege was a mistake and instead it should have been mandatory and a obligation.
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2010-03-22, 03:02 | Link #766 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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They doubled down on bringing down the whole bill, and now they're the ones with the cake in their face. Some of the smarter conservatives (e.g. Frum) lament that the bill could have been much better had the Republicans negotiated in good faith, and I don't doubt that. The fact that this bill was eventually passed with Democratic votes alone is 100% the GOPs responsibility, who placed politics before everything else. Quote:
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2010-03-22, 03:31 | Link #767 | |
Kurumada's lost child
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2010-03-22, 03:44 | Link #768 | ||
Banned
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2010-03-22, 04:55 | Link #771 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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That's what makes it hard for me to get with some of these representatives. Too populist in tone, to me it's just condecending sometimes. I know they are not like in that in Japan (it seems like the other side of the extreme completely robotic and alientating) How are they in Europe?
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2010-03-22, 07:19 | Link #772 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Oh, because some guy neg-repped me for this earlier article of mine, with this quote:
"You'd believe anything that fits your vitriolic world view wouldn't you?" Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXsRH73Cnw8 Am I saying that every Teabagger is like this? No. But I am saying that this frothing scorn is indeed very typical for them. And it's nutcases like Beck/Limbaugh/Bachmann who whip them into this spiteful frenzy. |
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2010-03-22, 07:26 | Link #773 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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I'm disregarding such bullshite.
After reading the sinthesis of the bill, I am generally for it. Admittedly, I haven't heard any real GOP counter ideas but then again to be fair, the media hasn't really reported on any. Whether it's bias or due to them not really saying anything I am not sure. Still, I do think it generally moves toward a more just health care system. I think it's essential. There is too much confabulation of Health Care with some sort of commercial commodity in this country, I don't like that. It's a service and a right. Plus, it's not like we initated a NIS over here. I honestly don't understand why the GOP is so deathly afraid of it in some sort of dumbass socialist context. Still a legitamte worry is what this will do to the national deficit. This is about the only thing I agree with GOP and Tea Party peeps on. We are in a precarious situation vis a vis finances in this country, while it drastically increase national debt? I haven't seen many mainstream news outlets tackle that yet. I wouldn't have minded something closer to NIS or what Canada has if more people have comprehensive care and the level of care wasn't terribly comprimised but given how large and dysfunctinal my country is, it'd be largely untenable. |
2010-03-22, 08:42 | Link #774 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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@kaoshin sama didn't you know it's uncouth to speak of Teddy Roosevelt as a Republican because he was a "progressive" not only being one of the most bad ass presidents we had but apparently he was too liberal with the environment and too willing to bust trusts that the GOP now demonizes him at every turn. The Good Old Party has long died, I believe after Eisenhower the last great Republican president a new GOP has risen in it's place. |
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2010-03-22, 08:42 | Link #775 | |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Of course, the GOP leadership definitely wouldn't go for that. |
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2010-03-22, 09:41 | Link #776 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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Naturally NO ONE will dare touch Medicare like they wouldn't touch the farm subsidies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/bu...health.html?hp This provides an interesting assesment of the effect on big Pharma and hospitals http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/2...ex.html?hpt=C1 THis is a variety of opinion from thinkers and people on the ground about the legislation. http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/21/news...ion=2010032122 This is commentary from anaylists on the effect on the deficit. As I said, this a concern rightys that is legitamite. Looking back the democrats did a BAD job of selling this bill. Good perks like kids staying insured till their mid 20s and such and highlighting the end to discriminatory practices should have been put out MUCH eariler and MUCH more clearly by local legislators. Obama did his MLK stchik and the individual dems seemed to hem and haw dependent on what kind of district they represented. It was a big jumbled mess by the democrats. The GOP is winning because they have a more unified well oiled voice, even though I hardly agree with it. They did too much damage in the the PR war. The dems HAVE to get a much better PR machine lined up because it's still a ways to go. My state Attorney General (VA) is ready to fight it because we have a state lay that says no citizen should be forced to buy coverage.....(WTF) THen again we Americans seem to like our political debates in a very very very folksy populist sort of vein, which really harms discourse. The media sure don't help either, unfortunetly, I don't see this changing much. |
2010-03-22, 09:47 | Link #777 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Age: 35
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Attorney Generals from 12 states say they will challenge the health care bill in court. The twelve states are Florida, South Carolina, Virginia, Alabama, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Washington, Utah, North Dakota, and South Dakota.
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I doubt any lawsuit will even make it to the Supreme Court. No way the four liberal justices would vote against the bill, and I don't see Kennedy voting against it either. |
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2010-03-22, 10:30 | Link #778 | ||
→ Wandering Bard
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Grancel City, Liberl Kingdom
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ZOMG IT'Z TEH END OF TEH WORLDAS WE KNOW IT. /o/
*insert Apocalypse now picture here* Bring out the Overreaction and Hyperbole. >___> Joking aside, I am a bit happy that this bill passed. I know, it's watered down to the point of cynicism for us who has checked this issue out for a while, but still it's a first step. Omnibus bills can always be doled out, but we need a baseline for it. Democrats hail landmark US healthcare bill President Barack Obama: 'It's a victory for the American people' Quote:
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You're referring to that I believe. ;D
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2010-03-22, 11:38 | Link #779 | ||||
blinded by blood
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These guys act so stupid and malicious sometimes I feel ashamed. It's really shitty that the only fiscally conservative parties that anyone knows about are both filled with moronic assholes. =/ Oh well, I'll just keep waving my minarchist "small ell" libertarian flag all by my lonesome. =/ Quote:
Giving 38 million uninsured people (including myself) health insurance is definitely a good thing. What's not a good thing is whether this will further slow hiring. But now that it's done and decided, businesses shouldn't be paralyzed by the unknown and should be able to move forward with whatever it is they're going to do. A lot of companies have been holding off on hiring decisions until this thing finished. Now that it's done, for good or for ill, these businesses will be able to make hiring decisions. Quote:
Abe Lincoln must be spinning in his grave so fast it's tearing a hole in the fabric of space-time.
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2010-03-22, 12:29 | Link #780 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Both the people who are sing the bills praise and those that are condemning it will be saverly disappointed at how little things will change. According to the CBO the issuance premiums for the majority of Americans will not change (aka go up at the same rate as normal) and for a minority it will go up. If you remove the creative accounting that was used for the budget figures the deficit will increase a little. The issues that were plaguing the American health care system still remain:
There is still a lack of general practitioners, which will be made worse by adding more people to the pool. The pay difference between a GP and a specialist for the same procedure still remains. The current trend of big companies running family practice clinics will expand, with the primary care giver being a physicians assistant. The cost of health care will not change and we will continue to see rates increase for no real reason. People will still be uninsured the and states AG are not going to actually go around fining people for nor having insurance. The headline "AG office fines recent college grad into bankruptcy" looks really bad. Both parties got what they wanted the Democrats can now say that they are standing up and doing what is right for the American people. The Republicans can go on screaming that the Democrats are a bunch of Communists that don't reflect "Americas values" what ever that means. Libertarians are left wondering what they got for increasing government influence. Never mind Libertarians got nothing in the deal. |
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