Higurashi Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[FatPianoBoy]

Oh my
This episode > every other so far.
It had lots of Shion, which is pretty much autowin.
The bikers' completely unintelligible speech was awesome, as it's something I've always thought about that stereotype in anime

I can definitely sympathize with Shion finding Satoko to be excessively whiney, but not really enough to do what she did. And I think I heard poor Shion's heart hit the floor when Satoshi yelled at her One of my favorite things about Higurashi is the sudden psychotic outbursts, so I was loving that. But Shion's still my favorite, despite
It's feeling like my idea for Watanagashi-hen is gonna get ripped to shreds though, especially since Shi and Mi switch places so easily. And I just reaffirmed recently that people were putting too much thought into them switching places

All in all, if the rest of this arch stays this strong, it'll be the best yet. I have to give this a ten for bursting at the seams with awesome. It's really the best episode yet.

[Shuin4]

Wow, that scene at school was intense. I can understand why Shion thought those things during this episode, but seriously

Spoiler:

how is slamming a chair over Satoko going to help her grow a spine? It would most likely break it, seeing as how a little push sent Satoko flying into the lockers and the desks.

Shame they didn't change the OP+ED (i was hoping they'd have new animation scenes to match the answer arcs) but it's no big deal.

[Guido]

The school scene was tearjerking for me.

Spoiler:

I'm surprised how Satoko was completely defenseless and a cry-baby because of their abusive uncle and aunt, one year before Keiichi arrived.

Eventually, I will learn how Satoko became who she is in Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen, and Tatarigoroshi-hen, once Satoshi's impending doom arrives.

Shion desiring to eliminate the source of Satoshi's misery which is primarily Satoko for Meakashi-hen, parallels Keiichi's murderous wish to kill the one who was bringing pain and despair to Satoko, which was her uncle for Tatarigoroshi-hen.

But I find Shion's rage and hell bent misplaced toward Satoko, because she hasn't done anything to her. Just because Shion fell attracted toward Satoshi and pitying at heart his current predicament does not give her the right to pour her fire on Satoko; I applaud and praise Rika-chan for her defensive stance to protect Satoko and arguing reason on Shion.

It would have been more intense if Shion started to slap Satoko on the cheeks or even going as far slapping her on the butt. However, grabbing her by the forehead and throwing her as a rag doll was just brutal.

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?

Was Shion's psychosis just a regular one? or maybe her Oyashiro-mode awakening out of jealousy?
Well, we have plenty of time to see the close shot of Shion's face, and since her eyes turned cat-like then that means Oyashiro-mode, at least looks to me.

[Cardiac Glycoside]

I think Shion is horny, and that horniness carried over too far and made Satoko a victim. (Strange seeing the beating scene when Satoko did pretty much the same thing to K1 in episodes 10 and 13).

Is it just me, or does Satoshi sound a lot like Jun from Rozen Maiden?

[Alu]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Answer Arcs don't solve everything in one go. But they do reveal A LOT of info and completely crush incorrect theories.

What a great episode, to me Higurashi has been a rank 10 all arround Anime, and this episode clearly doesn't stay behind.
Much like LostBlue previously said.., answer Arcs don't give the answers in a literal way.., everyone will still have to think to understand how everything fits together

Altough despite crushing alot of theories aswell.., I am becoming extreamly happy on the way that Maekashi-hen started and is developing towards its conclusion.., this specialy because well.., my speculations & theory so far regarding Watanagashi-hen (which I posted in the episode 8 thread) seem MORE and more to be correct

Reasons for this are as follows.., and also taking things from this episode...
I'd better spoil tag this ^^

Spoiler:

Well right from the opening scenes we get to see Shion dragging an inconsious Mion through the floor on the Sonozaki Mansion; just this scene alot started to give support to what I had then written about regarding that what had happened in Watanagashi-hen.

At that point Shion finaly "cracked" then she switched places with Mion and imprisioned her.
It was clear to me that the person inside the cage was Mion and not Shion.., the one-sama part mencioned before realy gaved my speculations more foundation.., not to mencione the fact that through the entire episode Mion acted realy as a phsyco-Shion.., and when we see Shion in the cage she acted realy like Mion would.., specialy upon seeing Keiichi.., but frightned.

Thus she then called Rika over as to lure Satoko (due to her hatred towards her) and killed her.., after as to not leave any witnesses behind.., she toke out Rika aswell.

Which also fits perfectly regarding on how through this entire episode her anger towards Rika started to grow, as she more and more could not stand to see Satoshi beeing so pushed down on the count of taking all the hits instead of his sister.

I was not surprised upon seeing that Shion did in fact Had love feelings towards Satoshi.., because it was something that I had also based my speculation upon the reasons that made her act as she did towards Mion when she saw that Mion loved Keiichi in Watanagashi-hen.
Something that again, this episode came to prove.

Shion is definitly in love with Satoshi, from the very moment she saw him.., but then to learn on how miserable he was just devastated her.., so she clearly wanted to change that by "fixing" the source of the problem (Satoko).
Which inevitaly lead towards the scene we saw in this episode.

Thing is.., I belive Shion is already extreamly mentaly instable...; and I say this because.., as I saw her beating down on Satoko.. even though the words she was shouting where directed at the cause to make her realise that she was making Satoshi miserable.., It felt to me that in fact the words she was saying where also her inner expressions of hatred and spite against on how Mion had been born first and had been able to live a more free life and in-herit the Sonozaki Leadership.

Which clearly would explain why she in the end, inside had so much hate towards her, as we saw in Watanagashi-hen.
And I guess the same would apply on to Satoko.., for I belive she now sees her as the reason for why Satoshi despizes the Sonozaki family even more..; for.., if she had not made him so miserable, Shion would have never attacked her only to Satoshi in the end enter to protecter her.
Something that.., to Shion now made the chances of him wanting to be with her less possible..

I wonder if this effect will be the trigger which caused Satoshi's death as we saw in the begining of Tatarigoroshi-hen..., as in.. if I can't have him.., then no one will.

All and all the dissapearence of Satoshi, and in this episode we saw how Just important he was to Satoko.., realy explains why Sakoto acted the way she did in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
For depending SO MUCH on her brother.., and then to have seen him dissapear just like that.., clearly she inside is compleatly unstable , and realy went through alot of depression and altough she fought to make it through.., everyday she probably struggles with regret on why such a miserable fate fell upon her.

Something that ended up by driving her over the edge.. as when she became to see Keiichi as beeing cursed and ended up killing him as in to "save him" and make everything good back again.., just as how everything was when Keiichi had just transfered in.

Now lets see if the following episodes continue to give support on all of this or not

As for the "curse" factor.., this episode kind of left me still puzzeled.., but that well.., also has ALOT to do with the last 2 arcs..
The fact though that the possibility that Oyashiro-sama's curse is spread through when someone wishes for someone to die is now VERY possible aswell.., for as we all saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen as Keiichi wished upon other's death.., it happened.., and now Shion doing the same on Satoshi's Aunt..

But since we still don't know "exactly" how Satoshi died.., in this case it might just be coincidence on behalf of Shion's wish.., since what we all saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen was just the "curse's" point of view of the story

All and all the events shown in this episode more or less give a reason to the actions in the 2nd arc.., specialy regarding the Mion / Shion aspects.

In the end.., I'll say it again.. A Great episode !, to me..., there is no way this anime can do any rong

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by Guido

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?

Same reason why Satoko can push K1 like a rag doll and Rika can control the wind and how Satoshi can fling Shion... Studio Deen people had too much to drink.

Originally Posted by Alu

I wonder if this effect will be the trigger which caused Satoshi's death as we saw in the begining of Tatarigoroshi-hen

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs). This body was found in real time in the EP, meaning the death happened in the 5th year. You'll find out more about her later.

[Darkside]

Shion is scary

I thought Rena was the scariest in Oyashiro-mode, but Shion is relentless xD

[Alu]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs). This body was found in real time in the EP, meaning the death happened in the 5th year. You'll find out more about her later.

oh.., many thanks LostBlue, judging by the hair colour and how quickly the image was, my first conclusion was that it was Satoshi.., this also because I haven't gotten to read that far in the TIPS section yet; I only started Higurashi 5 days ago

Originally Posted by Guido

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?

This is just another aspect used to emphasise the effect of the scene, as it has happened in the previous scenes like LostBlue previously mencioned; despite Satoko beeing quite small, the throwing of her against the cabinets the way Shion did was just to enforce the brutality of the act.., something that in my eyes, worked like a charm

[solwyvern]

Spoiler:

T_T Alu, it just might be true. Your speculation that Shion is actually the 'evil' person here. ..but I still find it hard to believe that everything is Shion's doing.

I'd like to point out that it seems Shion's weapon of choice is:

If you will notice at the very beginning of the show you hear the sound electricity,
then Mion gets knocked out. Obviously it was Shion's stunner.
Also she almost brings it out when she was confronted by the bullies, but Satoshi jumps i to save the day.

Also as shown in th Op., and proven in this episode Shion does have the tendency to go berserk. 0_o I don't see why she took it all out on Satoko. The reasons have very little justification. Jealousy perhaps? xD!



Of, course, we can't forget the best part.

Spoiler:

Rena! <3♥

Also, I'd like to mention that I am really starting to miss K1. Still no mention of him... and it's after three episodes now. I miss the guy. =(

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs).

Oh, wow. I have always thought that was Satoshi. >_<; I have yet to read all the TIPS so...

Shame they didn't change the OP+ED (i was hoping they'd have new animation scenes to match the answer arcs) but it's no big deal.

Same here ;_; though, it's not like I get bored of the same Op/Ed It is still that great.

I thought Rena was the scariest in Oyashiro-mode, but Shion is relentless xD

nah... Rena is still #1. Just listen to her sweet poem in the rain.

oops, forgot. Let's not forget the Highlight of the show.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Alu]

Originally Posted by solwyvern

T_T Alu, it just might be true. Your speculation that Shion is actually the 'evil' person here. ..but I still find it hard to believe that everything is Shion's doing.

Thanks Solwy , but I am not saying that everything is Shion's doing.., because it CLEARLY is not

All that I wrotte then and now about Shion is only regarding most of what happened in Watanagashi-hen; specialy regarding the Shion & Mion's actions actions.., and what lead for those events in Watanagashi-hen to happen.

Regarding EVERYTHING else, there are still alot of questions on how & why, and I surely trust many of the answers will be without a doubt non-Shion related; oh and I do want to emphasise "everything" beacause.., it is alot

This episode in my eyes just focused in my eyes in delivering some justifications, as to how Shion's development started.., in which then as ended in Watanagashi-hen.
Hopefully the next will continue to do as such, but not just that

[dangitsdon]

wtf is up with shion?!!or was it mion?...i think it was shion..anyways...
lol...preview for next episode looks promising.

[Deathkillz]

oh dear...oh dear...satoko got her butt kicked O.o shion is beaing really rough...but interesting that shion and mion are such close sisters...before i thought they hated each other...keep the answers comming

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by solwyvern

I don't see why she took it all out on Satoko. The reasons have very little justification. Jealousy perhaps? xD!

One thing the anime didn't portray is the passage of time. Shion has been hiding for weeks. The baseball practice itself is only on Sundays. So, I believe it was 3+ weeks where Shion didn't see Satoshi at all. She was very surprised of how much he changed when she saw him at school. And regardless of Mion's warning to leave him alone for now, Shion couldn't hold her feelings back. So she was extremely shocked when Satoshi acted cold towards her. Initially, Shion didn't have any intentions to harm Satoko, but when Satoko started crying out for Ni-ni
Shion just snap taking out all her frustration that's been building over the weeks onto her.

Of, course, we can't forget the best part.

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

Also, I'd like to mention that I am really starting to miss K1.

You'll see more of him =) The answer arcs definitely made him by far my favorite character in the series. And I don't think I'm the only one with him being #1 in the most recent character poll off the 07th Storming Party Homepage.

Oh, wow. I have always thought that was Satoshi.

Spoiler:

Remember her.

Next EP... *shudders*

[Shuin4]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

That's probably why Rena was surprised to hear of Shion in Watanagashi-hen.

And I think that's what this show is missing. Narraration by the main character, so we know what they're actually thinking instead of just watching their pupils get smaller.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

That would explain why Rena was the only one who didn't die in Watanagashi hen, at least from the information we were given. If we were to assume that the Mion in ep. 8 was actually Shion, and Mion was the one in the cage thing, then Shion is indeed wary of Rena. I still think Rena is scariest in her Oyashiro-mode.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

That would explain why Rena was the only one who didn't die in Watanagashi hen, at least from the information we were given. If we were to assume that the Mion in ep. 8 was actually Shion, and Mion was the one in the cage thing, then Shion is indeed wary of Rena. I still think Rena is scariest in her Oyashiro-mode.

Scary... sure... but Keiichi killed both Rena and Mion in the first arc, so I don't know how much of her is bark and how much is really bite.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

One thing the anime didn't portray is the passage of time. Shion has been hiding for weeks. The baseball practice itself is only on Sundays. So, I believe it was 3+ weeks where Shion didn't see Satoshi at all. She was very surprised of how much he changed when she saw him at school. And regardless of Mion's warning to leave him alone for now, Shion couldn't hold her feelings back. So she was extremely shocked when Satoshi acted cold towards her. Initially, Shion didn't have any intentions to harm Satoko, but when Satoko started crying out for Ni-ni
Shion just snap taking out all her frustration that's been building over the weeks onto her.

Another thing the anime doesn't do very well (or avoided doing) is the portrayal of the characters' emotions (besides the "i'm-gonna-try-to-look-scary-at-every-chance-I-get" anger). Besides the lack of Shion's monologues, which would've provided a view into her mental workings and explain how she came to reach the conclusions she did (rather than "suddenly" blowing up on Satoko, and "suddenly" wishing for Satako and her aunt to die, etc.), the anime also avoided "tear scenes". To be honest, there were actually a lot of cryings in the story, but so far, I think Satoko's crying in front of Irie's clinic in the final Tatarigoroshi-hen episode was the only normal crying scene they did so far.

These scenes are quite important because they provide you with critical insights on how the character is feeling at the time. When Shion finally got to see Satoshi again at Hinamizawa's school (after weeks of seperation, like LostBlue said), she was crushed when Satoshi treated her coldly. Shion was crying and begging him to tell her what's going on, but even then, Satoshi completely rejected her. And when Satoko began crying later, that sadness turned into pure anger directed at her.

Wouldn't the episode have a much larger impact if it was done that way?

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

Spoiler:

The lack of monologue is definitely going to hurt this chapter, especially certain final scenes at the Sonozaki main house...
Hopefully they'll keep the monologues for at least that scene.

...Then again, seeing this anime's track record so far, the fact that it's actually possible scares me

[keke]

Hmm... So Shion has been secretly living around Hinamizawa pretending to be Shion when she goes out. In chapter 2, it seems everyone knows Shion. At least we see that Takano, Oishi, and others know Shion. But why is it that Rena never knew her? When K1 mentions Shion, Rena said she didn't know Mion had a younger sister at all. Mion says that Shion lives in Okinomiya, which is where Oishi is from.

Perhaps the citizens of Hinamizawa don't know about Shion? In episode 16, we see that Shion was 'suppose' to be killed at birth since having twins would be troublesome. Perhaps Shion's birth was kept hidden from the citizens of Hinamizawa, since the Sonozaki family hold such importance there. That could explain why outsiders like Oishi and Tomitake know Shion, and Takano being kind of a snoop and knowing Tomitake might have that kind of information. But it seems Dr. Irie also knows her. She's even the manager of the Hinamizawa baseball team!

So probably Shion has officially revealed herself to the public before K1 moved to Hinamizawa. Maybe Rena doesn't know about Shion because she's kind of dumb and maybe mixes Mion and Shion together into 1 person when they are both there. Too bad we never see the other girls talk about Shion or even ever meet her except when they think she's Mion. So perhaps they are also oblivious to Shion's existance. But I guess some of them would know, especially Satako since she would probably act coldly to Mion, unless she knew it was Shion that beat her up. But do we ever really even see Satako talking with Mion alone?

[LostBlue]

At this pt in the story almost no one knows who Shion is or that Mion had a twin besides people within the Sonozaki. Rena just moved back into town around the time Satoshi stop coming to the baseball practice. No one including Mion, knew much about Rena at this point. Rika has heard of a Shion, but never met her as Shion is not allowed at the Gosanke meetings. Kimiyoshi-san however has met and loves Shion. That's pretty much the extent of it. Both Shion and Mion lived in Okinomiya with their parents through most of their childhood so it isn't strange that the vast majority of the people in Hinamizawa do not know who Shion is.

Tidbit:
Shion's name has meaning just like Mion's (although not as meaningful). Shion was given the character 寺 (Shrine) in her name 詩音. This was to signify that Shion was predetermine to be sent off away from the family. In the old days in Japan, parents did abandon their childern at shrines to be raised away with little to no contact with the family again (overly simplified, I know).

Tidbit 2:
詩 (Shi) = Poem
魅 (Mi) = Charm, enchant
音 (On) = Sound

[Alu]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

hmmmm.. Just why is Shion realy scared of Rena.. ? From what I could conclude Shion has real belief in the Oyashiro-sama's curse.., thus when meeting up with Rena and after that conversation it would be natural that she'd simply rather stay away from her..; but this would imply that she was not afraid of her prior to that moment.

Had she ever met Rena before she was sent to that private school ?, This would have been of course, before Rena had moved out and then moved in again.

Thing is according to the TIPS (and despite Keiichi had not asked Rena about it) it only showed us that Rika knew of Shion's existence.., and well.. in Watanagashi-hen when Keiichi first questions Mion about Shion.., Rena seems surprised as if she did not know of her existance aswell.

BUT.., Rena did play a Key role in the last episode of Watanagashi-hen.., upon entering the Sonozaki house and sitting down with Keiichi to talk with Mion(Shion).., she Clearly saw that that was in fact Shion and quickly caught her act, specialy from the moment she even says that it isn't necessary for her to show the tattoo; since she knew that her beeing Shion she wouldn't have it.
So she rather just letted the story play along, probably to see how far it would go.

It feels strange to me that.. if Rena had actualy never met Shion how could she tell ?, Was it all instinct ? Was it aswell the same reason why Shion was afraid to cross path with Rena, only pure and natural instinct ?

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Besides the lack of Shion's monologues, which would've provided a view into her mental workings and explain how she came to reach the conclusions she did (rather than "suddenly" blowing up on Satoko, and "suddenly" wishing for Satako and her aunt to die, etc.), the anime also avoided "tear scenes"

Oh.., it is a shame indeed.., I did not know they where ment to exist, but I clearly see or imagine the diference they would make, not to mencione the impact.
Much like you said.., it would realy provide us with a much bigger in-sight on how Shion's mentality works.., and what where the trigger moments that compeld her actions in the way that they did.

Never the less though, if one pays extreamly attention to the details I belive the anime is giving good foundation to lay down good speculations about the possible reasons that made her act as such.

Altough.., I now miss not seeing the inner monologues aswell