Ever17 -The Out of Infinity-

[daedalus6]

When do I get to choose my path?! I have played the game for what feels like hours and no choice yet!

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler for Tsugumi's path - paragraph six:

I can see you don't like Tsugumi's type of characters. I don't like the "icebergs" either and if nothing goes wrong, they are the last persons to complete in a typical galgame for me. I don't really get you when yous said she did a horrible deed in Sora's arc... Do you mean she "makes" Takeshi go into an unshown ero scene with her or she does not offer her blood to help with making the vaccine? I wouldn't call either of those "horrible" because Takeshi is half responsible for both of those "misdeeds".

Spoiler:

Tsugumi rapes Takeshi. When the scene happened I didn't know what happened, but after someone clarified Takeshi got her pregnant, it was pretty obvious - she strangled him and he was unconscious. Sora confirms this by admitting to herself that it wasn't Takeshi's fault. Frankly, the whole incident disgusted me, really, and was one of the reasons I started to dislike Tsugumi.

I wouldn't say I dislike Tsugumi-type characters it's just Tsugumi pushed my buttons too frequently. When I originally played as Takeshi, I tried to role play as him since his profile fits mine (~twenty years old, college junior) and in retrospect, all of the choices meant to please Tsugumi could only have been taken by someone deliberately trying to please her with the prospect of getting laid. Sora's, by contrast, could be attained by someone just trying to be sociable/pleasant to everyone - I got the Bad End playing "myself" as it were, but I also overlapped into Sora's Path and I think that combination of outcomes was the "most believable" of all Takeshi paths. Sure, I loved Sora's ending and was pleased with how Takeshi handled Tsugumi's Good End, but the Bad End was "brick shatting" to say the least. I mean, of all the endings, that was the most likely one to have occured in reality

Originally Posted by daedalus6

When do I get to choose my path?! I have played the game for what feels like hours and no choice yet!

Depends on who you play as. You won't know if you're on Tsugumi or Sora's Paths until right before their respective endings, You/Sara come earlier (a bit more than half-way).

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Spoiler:

Tsugumi rapes Takeshi. When the scene happened I didn't know what happened, but after someone clarified Takeshi got her pregnant, it was pretty obvious - she strangled him and he was unconscious. Sora confirms this by admitting to herself that it wasn't Takeshi's fault. Frankly, the whole incident disgusted me, really, and was one of the reasons I started to dislike Tsugumi.

Spoiler for Sora's route:

err... no, tsugumi doesn't rape takeshi at all. indeed, she was acting erratic with him, but it wasn't that "non concent".
When tsugumi begged him to use her body, Takeshi had the urge to do so, and pretty much stated in his thoughts. he did it with an impulse, and tsugumi was indeed assaulting him, but she doesn't force him, and he could push her back. the whole "i grab you and push you to the ground" isn't related with their intercourse

I wouldn't say I dislike Tsugumi-type characters it's just Tsugumi pushed my buttons too frequently. When I originally played as Takeshi, I tried to role play as him since his profile fits mine (~twenty years old, college junior) and in retrospect, all of the choices meant to please Tsugumi could only have been taken by someone deliberately trying to please her with the prospect of getting laid.

No, i would say somehow how to understand her character. Pleasing her isn't especially obvious considering some answers which are in fact flag- without knowing it.

Sora's, by contrast, could be attained by someone just trying to be sociable/pleasant to everyone

Personally, i thought Sora extremely bland and going goody 2 shoes until she got her fine development after Takeshi "scold" Kid about the kichen sandwich.
Her character was especially generic, and her "twist" as a AI was really done too late. heck, her antics with takeshi and his "teacher + student" were too much out from the blue.

Still a likeable character, but i felt really a poor scripting for her path (not as much as Sara however).


it is a matter of taste, and i'm not really the kind to "dislike a rival of "my" girl". I tend to focalise on each depending of their context.
as for tsugumi, like most people, I really felt her extremely obnoxious (thank goodness i didn't start kid first), but her route was nicely done so her development doesn't have any hiccup or something out from the blue.

her torn personality is quickly presented (thanks to chami). i'm not trying to convince anyone to like her anyway, but generally speaking, i though almost any of her action justified, considering the various hints and developments she got.

OTOH, Sora development was too bland and unbalanced. (at least, to me)

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler:

err... no, tsugumi doesn't rape takeshi at all. indeed, she was acting erratic with him, but it wasn't that "non concent".
When tsugumi begged him to use her body, Takeshi had the urge to do so, and pretty much stated in his thoughts. he did it with an impulse, and tsugumi was indeed assaulting him, but she doesn't force him, and he could push her back. the whole "i grab you and push you to the ground" isn't related with their intercourse

Spoiler:

If someone isn't fully conscious when deciding to shag someone, it's rape. Such would be no different if one person tried to shag another, intoxicated person - even if that says"yes", he/she is still drunk and incapable of giving a proper agreement.

The "craziness" as I interpreted it was a violent erection. Men respond to various stimuli through connotations - looking at breasts, smelling someone's hair, imagining something, etc. As a response to Tsugumi rubbing her clothing against Takeshi, the "craziness swelling inside me" sounded like he got an erection and Tsugumi jumped on the opportunity.

Takeshi didn't complain the next morning because...well, a number of reasons. The first is, I don't know any dude around (cept for me, maybe) who would complain about getting raped by a girl. It's just very un-manly to mope around and go, "ooh I've been raped..." if by a girl. Secondly, Takeshi knew the incident happened, but he didn't remember it - it might as well have not happened. Thus, Tsugumi and Takeshi's behaviour was "awkwardness" the morning after, trying to forget what happened the previous night.

When I first played through that part of the game, I thought, "man, she tried to KILL HIM" and thought he was trying to do the same to her. Originally, my view was Sora was overreacting to Takeshi's life being in danger...but the truth of the matter was far more terrible.

I hated playing that scene again by the way.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

No, i would say somehow how to understand her character. Pleasing her isn't especially obvious considering some answers which are in fact flag- without knowing it.

It's rather easy to figure out Tsugumi's kind of character, she's the archetypal "bird in a cage with a broken wing" person. The problem is, well, I'm not like that and thus had a hard time getting Tsugumi's Path since *I* was playing out of character. As I said earlier, one has to take an active interest in Tsugumi to get her route, whereas one could just be friendly with Sora and get her path.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Personally, i thought Sora extremely bland and going goody 2 shoes until she got her fine development after Takeshi "scold" Kid about the kichen sandwich.
Her character was especially generic, and her "twist" as a AI was really done too late. heck, her antics with takeshi and his "teacher + student" were too much out from the blue.

The A.I. bit should have been obvious from the invisible Sora computer lab incident on the first day - I'd suspected she was an android for the longest time, but the surprise was that she was a hologram.

I can see where you are coming from, though - one woudn't have thought Sora's A.I. would have already developed a concept of romance with so little time with Takeshi, but it came as a surprise to me. See, the whole time during Sora's Path I wasn't really thinking of romance, just being a friend - and it was tragic Sora and Takeshi couldn't interact beyond that. Suddenly, "I love him!" and the whole direction for her path had been defined. Sora didn't pour her heart out to Takeshi like Tsugumi did after he had "broken the wall" so to say, she'd kept most of her feelings inside. Reserved. Pretty faithful to her character.

Spoiler:

Regarding the "goody two shoes" line, I agree, but it was probably intentional - if you notice, Sora and Tsugumi's Paths contrast one another. Heck, their existance contrasts one another - Sora opens her heart the closes it, Tsugumi leaves it closed then opens it. Sora is friendly and gregarious, Tsugumi is antagonistic and a loner. Sora wishes to obtain life, Tsugumi wishes to discard it. Sora is clothed in white, Tsugumi is clothed in black. The sky exists above the ocean and below the moon.

Because of this, it's inevitable that people are likely going to side with either Sora or Tsugumi, one hating the other and so forth. I do not think I would dislike Tsugumi so much as I do if not for Sora getting the short stick for game paths. Ryogo has a better chance at happiness than she does, unless she's got a real body afterall and she's just referring to her organs in machine terms. Who is to say, who is to say...

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Still a likeable character, but i felt really a poor scripting for her path (not as much as Sara however).

I think Sara's Path was undercooked. Ending was great, really romantic (*cough*, not that way, *cough*) and Sara herself interesting, but there was the annoying bit of her knowing more than she let on and not confining her discoveries to the Kid.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

as for tsugumi, like most people, I really felt her extremely obnoxious (thank goodness i didn't start kid first), but her route was nicely done so her development doesn't have any hiccup or something out from the blue.

Spoiler:

As I said earlier, I can see what you're talking about. The Tsugumi Path relationship was loads smoother than Sora's as far as romance goes, since it was obvious Tsugumi and Takeshi were getting closer with their respective actions. But Sora's Path, for me, was all the more profound because one is playing under the assumption that A.I. cannot understand human love in the same way that humans can - they can grow to understand affection, but "love"? Apparently Sora could, and that revelation made me realize she's NOT just a machine, a program and whatnot, but a real human being in every way aside from one critical problem - she lacks a body. I recognized Sora's awareness to be a miracle, and in my mind, I thought, "if this miracle was possible, getting her a body should be a snap". Afterall, my friends are huge fans of Chobits and while I've never played the title, I know all about the themes of exploring artificial life and its relationship with human beings. Of course, the romance was also a product of opportunity (aren't they all?) but I was honored Sora chose Takeshi, my character, over the Kid as the person she was attracted to, and so I felt some sort of obligation to be reciprocal to some effect.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

her torn personality is quickly presented (thanks to chami). i'm not trying to convince anyone to like her anyway, but generally speaking, i though almost any of her action justified, considering the various hints and developments she got.

I only think Tsugumi redeemed herself during Coco's Path, prior to that she was really emo and selfish which, in retrospect, sort of explains why she loved Takeshi so much - if he was REALLY willing to put up with her, he was a fine catch of a man and she was wrong to have pushed him away for so long. The guilt must have been a heavy weight on her neck - afterall, if not for her final act of defiance in LeMU, Tsugumi's Good End would have concluded much differently.

tl;dr - Tsugumi is my least favourite character in the game, but at the very least I can sympathize with her somewhat by the True End.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Spoiler:

If someone isn't fully conscious when deciding to shag someone, it's rape. Such would be no different if one person tried to shag another, intoxicated person - even if that says"yes", he/she is still drunk and incapable of giving a proper agreement.

The "craziness" as I interpreted it was a violent erection. Men respond to various stimuli through connotations - looking at breasts, smelling someone's hair, imagining something, etc. As a response to Tsugumi rubbing her clothing against Takeshi, the "craziness swelling inside me" sounded like he got an erection and Tsugumi jumped on the opportunity.

Takeshi didn't complain the next morning because...well, a number of reasons. The first is, I don't know any dude around (cept for me, maybe) who would complain about getting raped by a girl. It's just very un-manly to mope around and go, "ooh I've been raped..." if by a girl. Secondly, Takeshi knew the incident happened, but he didn't remember it - it might as well have not happened. Thus, Tsugumi and Takeshi's behaviour was "awkwardness" the morning after, trying to forget what happened the previous night.

When I first played through that part of the game, I thought, "man, she tried to KILL HIM" and thought he was trying to do the same to her. Originally, my view was Sora was overreacting to Takeshi's life being in danger...but the truth of the matter was far more terrible.

I hated playing that scene again by the way.

Spoiler:

the comparaison is quite exagerrated. Being horny isn't really similar than being intoxicated or drunk. Of course, this part can alter Takeshi's perception about Tsugumi. However, she made her move first, with her plea, THEN Takeshi reacted to it, after a twisted amount of inner thoughts.

I don't think Takeshi would complain about this, but i would say he would be completely puzzled by the situation and in some extent, a guilt. However, Tsugumi's behaviour the next morning was kinda a message that they should not bring this "scene of weakness" on the matter again.
I should probably replay this part, but It didn't feel rushed to me, so i don't think it was completely reckless and all. With willpower alone, takeshi could simply stop this. it isn't really an "accident" to me.

as for the aftermath of this, I was surprised because Sora was... being jealous from nowhere. but i understand it well after her confession that is.
But i don't think the matter was far more terrible, considering the relationship takeshi and Sora had prior all of this. Once again, like you and me felt this way : the "romance" aspect was completely absent until Sora was going berserk. Even on Sora's route, i wasn't that surprised with Takeshi going with Tsugumi, considering the interations (heck, even Tsugumi became "nicer" at Chami's incident, although being on Sora's route)

The A.I. bit should have been obvious from the invisible Sora computer lab incident on the first day - I'd suspected she was an android for the longest time, but the surprise was that she was a hologram.

no i'm not talking about "whaa, she is a IA" in fact. i was talking about that weird conflict she had, way much later in the game. (confession)
It was too obvious, considering her manner of speech and lack of reaction at many various moments, especially the computer room, like you said.

I can see where you are coming from, though - one woudn't have thought Sora's A.I. would have already developed a concept of romance with so little time with Takeshi, but it came as a surprise to me. See, the whole time during Sora's Path I wasn't really thinking of romance, just being a friend - and it was tragic Sora and Takeshi couldn't interact beyond that. Suddenly, "I love him!" and the whole direction for her path had been defined. Sora didn't pour her heart out to Takeshi like Tsugumi did after he had "broken the wall" so to say, she'd kept most of her feelings inside. Reserved. Pretty faithful to her character.

this is why i felt her character was underdevelopped, since her sudden "true feelings" were coming from... nowhere.
There were indeed hints, but there were really not significant enough, and their meaning was extremely shady.
At least, the awkwardness remains, fitting her "inexperience" as a AI.

Spoiler:

Regarding the "goody two shoes" line, I agree, but it was probably intentional - if you notice, Sora and Tsugumi's Paths contrast one another. Heck, their existance contrasts one another - Sora opens her heart the closes it, Tsugumi leaves it closed then opens it. Sora is friendly and gregarious, Tsugumi is antagonistic and a loner. Sora wishes to obtain life, Tsugumi wishes to discard it. Sora is clothed in white, Tsugumi is clothed in black. The sky exists above the ocean and below the moon.

Because of this, it's inevitable that people are likely going to side with either Sora or Tsugumi, one hating the other and so forth. I do not think I would dislike Tsugumi so much as I do if not for Sora getting the short stick for game paths. Ryogo has a better chance at happiness than she does, unless she's got a real body afterall and she's just referring to her organs in machine terms. Who is to say, who is to say...

Yes it was obvious, but no i don't think it should separate the "fans" so to speak. Opposed characters can have common points and various traits which please the readers/watchers.
Of course, this statement is applied many times on various VN or shows, but i think it is just a problem of context, and how the readers/watchers compare the cast.

I think Sara's Path was undercooked. Ending was great, really romantic (*cough*, not that way, *cough*) and Sara herself interesting, but there was the annoying bit of her knowing more than she let on and not confining her discoveries to the Kid.

Well, the problem with her path is most likely the lakc of discoveries, it is true.
OTOH, her character development was extremely poor. heck, the only "emotional" moment outside of coco's path for her was in You's memories, the "school days". They could try to go further in her struggle, but even her conflict with tsugumi was completely ignored, until coco's path

I only think Tsugumi redeemed herself during Coco's Path, prior to that she was really emo and selfish which, in retrospect, sort of explains why she loved Takeshi so much - if he was REALLY willing to put up with her, he was a fine catch of a man and she was wrong to have pushed him away for so long. The guilt must have been a heavy weight on her neck - afterall, if not for her final act of defiance in LeMU, Tsugumi's Good End would have concluded much differently.

I'm not really agreeing with this, since her"selfishness" is rather more complicated that simply centring everything around herself. I guess i was "siding with her" due her complete abnormal situation and past. Suffice to say, i believe it was hard for her to even consider herself as part of the "gang" because of her own esteem of her existence.

It is true her obnoxious "shell" around her was somewhat a message "please help me", on the other way around, she doesn't want to be pitied, nor "sharing" her problems for obvious reasons.
Takeshi was able to "get" her simply because he didn't focalised everything on meaningless past, in contrast with Tsugumi, completely devoured about her own image and the past she lived. Takeshi personality matched simply what Tsugumi required : carefreeness, responability and frankness, that is.
oh well, that is my own interpretation.

OTOH, i wasn't really moved by sora, because of "goodie two shoe" wasn't exactly in opposition with Tsugumi, but rather too superficial, until she got her twist and love later on. Prior this part, she was extremely too artificial (not specially because she was a AI, but because she was like this with everyone) , even though she is "naturally" nice. Like i said, i still believe her scripting was poor, not really because she was "too" nice. Her "too late "second dimensional personality" could save her completely if it was introduced more smoothly and sooner.

[daedalus6]

Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek

Depends on who you play as. You won't know if you're on Tsugumi or Sora's Paths until right before their respective endings, You/Sara come earlier (a bit more than half-way).

I am kid....but it does not seem like I really had a choice in the matter...when did that choice happen.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by daedalus6

I am kid....but it does not seem like I really had a choice in the matter...when did that choice happen.

>I've got to find my friends <-Takeshi
>Who am I <- Kid

The choice happens shortly after things go wrong in LeMU

In the original japanese version the choice was a bit clearer. Since Takeshi and Kid refer to themselves differently (ore and boku), the choices were "ore wa....." and "boku wa...." to enter their respective paths.

[daedalus6]

is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?

[ApathyEcstasy]

Originally Posted by daedalus6

is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?

you cannot experience the complete story without completing all endings and unlocking the final path

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by daedalus6

is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?

Yes, it warrants many, many replays in fact. Don't stop until you've completed Coco's Path.

The possible girls for the Kid are You and Sara. For Takeshi, it's Sora and Tsugumi. You'll know when you're on one of their paths when your saves start saying Kid/You, Kid/Sara, Takeshi/Sora or Takeshi/Tsugumi, instead of just Kid or Takeshi. As I said earlier, for Takeshi's routes, you are only alerted as to whose path you are on by the sixth day or so. For Kid's, it could be as early as the third and as late as the fifth.

[kgptzac]

I think on the third day if you save, you should be able to see whose path you are taking on the save title.

[p997tt]

Originally Posted by daedalus6

is this game so much different on the different paths that it warrants a replay?
and I am now playing as the kid when can I choose the girl whose ending I want?

Just like what many people/reviews said, there is no meaning in playing the game if you don't play until the end of Coco's route.

iirc for Kid's path the first decision you need to make for whether you go for You or Sara's route is when they are going to fix the power generator. I think it's in day 2 or day 3, can't really remember.

[dsp2003]

kgptzac, don't mind if i'll copy-paste everything that we discussed at your guestbook?

Spoiler for * SPOILERS * SPOILERS * SPOILERS * VERY BIG ONE * A HUGE ONE * TERRIBLE ONE:

Here's some additions to your "LeMU guess things". That is only my humble opinion:

1. Remember Kid's Perspective \ You's Version: when You is trying to contact LeMU surface, the You'haru's colleague tells "Oh my god... Blick Winkel... appeared". BUT, according to the scenario plot, the player IS a Blick Winkel, so he CANNOT be in the 2 places at the same time. Yes, he CAN'T. I mean, the player is GLUE-ATTACHED to Hokuto in the Kid\You version, so the Blick Winkel on the surface is definitely NOT the player from the Kid\You or even Kid\Sara perspectives. Then, WHO is he?

Also, it's clear enough to understand, that the real Takeshi and Coco wasn't saved in the both of You & Sara versions. Then WHY is the "other" Blick Winkel appeared in the You's scenario?

Mystery? Hah, no. I think, there's just a scenarist's mistake...

kgptzac's:

"In You'aki's arc, You'haru's colleague indeed said something about Blick Winkel appearing. But I never thought that he meant he physically saw BW up on Insel Null or something. What he was implying, probably (and stuff are lost during translation, considering E17's translation isn't well done I guess the chance of confusion is higher here), was that "BW is awakening". From my research and views of other experts, we think it's possible that the last leak in LeMU that made Hokuto and You'aki stuck inside, was actually something unaticipated by You'haru people, and probably caused by BW's "wrongness of observasion"... In conclusion, I highly doubt this is a bug on the script."

Added: Then, there's another question. HOW could they register the BW presence? I know, it was a 17 years since the BW appearance at the young You'haru', but... how can you register SOMETHING from another, the UPPER dimension?

2. The Sora's reprogramming, data banks... I thought about it and found the shocking conclusion. The "military secrets" that was used to create Sora... she WAS a human from the beginning! I mean, what if the Sora's "prototype" is really a "dead beautiful system engineer", as Takeshi says. What if the Leiblich have used corpses of their "accidentially" deceased workers to create "smart machines"...? "Ghost In The Shell", you say? Well, maybe you're right... BTW, I saw the same thing in the Will Co. "Critical Point" bishoujo VN.

kgptzac's:

"Nice idea. in that case Sora doesn't have to be "dead" at all. xD She can just be the image of a woman who's being remote controled like in GiTS. You probably want to develop a plot and write a doujin of some sort :P"

3. The You's personality. Youbiseiakikana from the 2034th is a "heart-minded-fire-proof-bea stia". She is always bursts in anger, screams like she have a built-in megafon (geez, that pisses me a lot)... and, you know what, her sign is DEFINITELY "Leo", not "Virgo" (as Timeline says) (well, maybe i'm thinking that way because my sing is "Leo" too... ).

Youbiseiharukana from the 2017th, at the other hand, is a "heart-minded", but there's something strange... she is gentle to people... maybe because she knows that she will die soon, she wants to leave as a good person... What will you do if you know that your life going to over?

kgptzac's:

"First of all, You'haru isn't going to die in 2034 Coco's arc. Quite the oppisite I think she's gonna be like Tsugumi and live a very long life due to Cure Virus (samething goes for Takeshi, Coco, Ryogo...) Also I guess it's obvious You'aki has a slightly different personality from her mom (although I was totally being tricked into thinking they are the same person before the end of Coco's arc). As you said, You'aki is easier to enraged and have a more outgoing personality than You'haru. In coco's arc, You'haru appear to have a clamer personality than her 17-years-ago self is probably due to that... she just grew up, both physically and mentally :P"

I didn't meant that. I meant that the You'haru' in the 2017th has a bad heart condition. She didn't knowed till the May 6th that the Tsugumi is a cure-carrier. That's why she thinked that she will probably die soon...

P.S. Thank you for helping the noob, Klashikari.

[Klashikari]

use the SPOILER TAGS !
[.spoiler=title of your spoiler] the spoiler text [./spoiler] without the dots in the tags.

Spoiler for end game:

I didn't meant that. I meant that the You'haru' in the 2017th has a bad heart condition. She didn't knowed till the May 6th that the Tsugumi is a cure-carrier. That's why she thinked that she will probably die soon...

Spoiler for end game:

not quite correct : You'Haru knew she will die soon much before getting on LeMU. Otherwise, she wouldn't generate her clone, You'Aki in this case.
That is said, i don't think her death condition is something which affect her personality. As you can see, she managed to hide this important matter altogether and "reveal" herself only when talking about it.

it isn't really something which stick always on her mind.

the difference between the 2 You is more likely the difference in their way of living. No matter how You'Haru tries to "recreate" the same situation she was growing in her childhood, differences will obviously emerge.

[dsp2003]

Spoiler for the May 2nd:

There's also one thing: remember "Kick-The-Can" episode, when Coco is trying to play with You'haru':

(You): "..."
(Coco): "Huh? You don't want to play?"
(You): "N-no... i didn't meant that."

Here you go again, mr. bad health condition...

Ok, no more talking about "health"... i understand.

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by dsp2003

Spoiler:

1. Remember Kid's Perspective \ You's Version: when You is trying to contact LeMU surface, the You'haru's colleague tells "Oh my god... Blick Winkel... appeared". BUT, according to the scenario plot, the player IS a Blick Winkel, so he CANNOT be in the 2 places at the same time. Yes, he CAN'T. I mean, the player is GLUE-ATTACHED to Hokuto in the Kid\You version, so the Blick Winkel on the surface is definitely NOT the player from the Kid\You or even Kid\Sara perspectives. Then, WHO is he?

I think I've got the answer for this one.

Spoiler:

It's another fourth dimensional being, acting in a different way from the player. People have looked at Ever17's scenarios and thought, "this is impossible" because it requires BW to have influenced his own summoning. However, if one looks at the game from the fifth dimension (probability) it becomes clear that BW cannot be the only 4D person to play the game, there had to be people before him and after him. The chances of BW being in the beginning, not the "middle" are anything but absolute - only one chance in an infinity. When one plays the game for the first time, the 2034 world was created by the person who played the game BEFORE the player. Say, Malintex_Terek's 2034 was created by Klashikari, and dsp2003's was created by Malintex_Terek.

[dsp2003]

Spoiler for "multiverse beings"?:

Then... is the world what we know really exists when we're sleeping... no, when we're not looking at it? :/ What's our dreams means then?

Me, for example, can see the near future in own dreams (unfortunately, it's true, guys, i really do)... but, it differs when it becomes the "present" (in a few details).

I'm just thinking... is that i see is *really* a future? Or it's just happened with my *other self* from separate (but linked) dimension or space-time continuum?

I know, it may sound crazy (or even paranoid). But, i believe that "everything is possible" in this world... Everything.

That's why i'm an Ever17 fan (but, it's already offtopic, gomen).

[Bloodseeker]

I don't see why anyone has trouble getting Tsugami's good ending... its basically just the usual deal of be nice, stand by the idea that life is important, be reasonable, and talk to her whenever you have the option. I don't remember any choices that weren't obvious...

As of completing You's and Tsugumi's routes:

You = Sara >= Takeshi >>> Coco > Tsugumi at the end of her route >>> Tsugumi > Sora > Kid

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by dsp2003

Spoiler for "multiverse beings I"?:

Then... is the world what we know really exists when we're sleeping... no, when we're not looking at it? :/ What's our dreams means then?

That's for you to decide. Thomas Hobbes believed all reality was subjective sense and Descartes believed people could be decieved into never believing an objective reality. It's beyond the power of human beings to comprehend objective reality outside of faith in that objective reality - id est, I know something exists because I can touch it and others can touch it and use it. It is this faith that gives us a grounding to the objective world, even if it's beyond our comprehension, we can indulge in the illusion and make it real.

Take a 3D object drawn on paper. It's not really 3D, it's 2D, but we an mentally understand it to be 3D by decieving ourselves. We can "percieve" the imaginary 3D and make it real in our minds. Same applies to objective reality.

Originally Posted by dsp2003

Spoiler for "multiverse beings II"?:

Me, for example, can see the near future in own dreams (unfortunately, it's true, guys, i really do)... but, it differs when it becomes the "present" (in a few details).

I'm just thinking... is that i see is *really* a future? Or it's just happened with my *other self* from separate (but linked) dimension or space-time continuum?

I know, it may sound crazy (or even paranoid). But, i believe that "everything is possible" in this world... Everything.

No, I believe you. I've gone through something simmilar. But I'll say it's probably your mind putting together information you didn't think too much about while awake while you sleep.

[4as]

Originally Posted by dsp2003

Spoiler for May 6th Sora's Version:

Remember when the HIMMEL was flooded (the last that we saw in the Sora's "Good" ending)...

[...]
the Pipi somehow managed to get the Terabyte Disc from his pocket, right? If so, then HOW our little robotic friend found him? Or, it's didn't happened in Sora's arc at all? :|

Spoiler:

Where that come from?
No, there was nothing about Pipi getting the Terabyte Disc from Takeshi.